/lit/ - Literature

disgusting sodomite

>>14763883
uhh thats kinda gay bro

>>>/lgbt/

Homosexuality is a 20th century social construct. It didn't exist before then.

>>14764233
Fuck off retarded tripfag, this is more /lit/ related than /lgbt/ related.

>>14763883
Sorry OP don't have anything, apart from the obvious of Shakespeare (Troilus and Cressida is probably the only one with relatively explicit homoerotic themes, with Achilles and Patroclus and all, others like Twelfth Night, As You Like It do too, but not quite as explicitly...) Iliad might be worth adding for that same reason? But great list anyways.

>>14764259
19th century construct actually... That is "heterosexuality/homosexuality as sexual identities". Of course homoeroticism and gay sex has pretty much always existed.

I'm hetero but I salute you OP, I dont mind gays who are intellectuals just as I dont mind straights who are intellectuals

>>14764259
I’m not taking a side in the essentialist/social constructionist debate with this pic, just grouping together different pre-modern depictions of same-sex activities and inclinations.
>>14764304
Thanks for the Shakespeare recommendations anon, I’ll look into those. Troilus and Cressida has been hovering on my periphery. I’ve avoided adding the Iliad for now just because (from what I’ve heard) there’s no clear textual evidence for Achilles and Patroclus’ having a romantic/sexual relationship (same for Gilgamesh iirc) and it’s unclear whether ritualised homosexuality existed in Homeric society as it did later. It’s an important piece of the puzzle of course since later Greeks (and classicists) interpreted their relationship as being pederastic. The fragments of the Achilleis (Aeschylus’ retelling of the myth) are less ambiguous. But I’d rather not add it to the image and make a declaration about its content. I might be wrong though, so feel free to correct me.
>>14764311
Thank you anon. My goal with the image is to be broadly historically informative and not just appeal to a specific interest, hence the inclusion of texts with ambivalent or negative depictions of homosexuality (such as Plato’s Laws, Juvenal’s Satires, etc.) There is an absence of Christian texts mainly because, although there are lots of references to homosexuality in the literature of Christianity as a whole, individually don’t treat the subject in as much detail as their pagan counterparts, and tend to speak about abstract behaviours and offences rather than concrete personalities and events.

something by Aretino?

>>14764480
I have Il marescalco down as something to investigate, although it might be a poor choice. Any recommendations?

Do you have that gay/pedo chart? It had a bunch of early gay shit

Edmund Backhouse - Manchu Decadence

>>14764554
nvm, missed the cut off

>>14764554
>>14764560
No worries, thanks for the post anyway anon. I hadn't heard of that one before

>>14764539
Not sure if I’ve seen that chart

there's also a really funny short story by Li Yu (1610–1680) called House of Gathered Refinements, its English translation is in the Tower For the Summer Heat collection

>>14764582
Thanks anon I think I remember looking into that but not finding Much info. Cheers for the rec on the English collection.

>>14764475
>I might be wrong though, so feel free to correct me.
No, you are very correct about the Iliad, couldn’t have put it better really...

>>14764594

no prob, there's a good /lit/ relevant line in the original:

蠹魚但知蝕書不得書中之解 bookworms only know how to devour books, not how to understand them

OP here gonna sleep I’ll be back on later

>>14764499
Oh, I missed that one. Probably that or his letters, since the Ragionamenti are mostly straight if I remember correctly

>>14763883
modern conception of homosex shouldn’t be applied to ancients. likewise, these sorts of things always stretch their definition of homosex to include things like close male friendships which the homosexuals have memed into being gay but were seen as perfectly normal in the past

fuck off sodomite

>>14764304
>>14764475
Tangentially related, but does anyone know of any books that explains the appearance of sobriety, planes, and other aspects that defined the west from revolutionary France onwards? I think the two are connected since pre-revolution France was kind of fruity in moth material and idea culture. I think some connection of civil duty and the like causes the rise of the somber disposition that lead more towards Victorianism and modern conceptions of manliness and the like.