/lit/ - Literature

It is because they have a different literalistic way of reading their book that is parsed through other texts of which there are different schools. Clarity doesn't even mean it is true. Think about when a person lies to you but gives too many details. Islam is also not just the Koran, it is also the hadith, and sirah. This body of material includes statements of pre-socratic science and ancient greek medicine as well. You know another option is that they are all wrong. Read thes below. You should also purchase a copy of Why I Am Not A Muslim by Ibn Warraq.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page

https://www.disprovingislam.com/

>>14732248
It is also the fiqh too which consists of multiple legal schools.

>>14732223
If the Quran was right, you would have gotten quads

Firstly, the anon above posted purely Anti Islamic sources. Take it upon yourself to read the Quran and hadith and then read what people have to say about them. Secondly, I'd argue that clarity is a stronger indicator of truth, as additional detail means there is more to disprove, no? When a person lies and gives too many details then it becomes easier to point out the flaws and inconsistencies in their arguments.

>>14732223
https://discord.gg/hCjX58e

>>14732223
>IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD ACTUALLY BE FROM OUR CREATOR. HELP ME BROS
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but YHVH and "Allah" are the same god, worshipped in the past by the same people, don't get me started on how both religions stole shit from Zoroastrianism

So you attack Christianism by what "christians" say while making the apology for Islam just by quoting the Quran? Try reading what every muslim had to say on the subject.

religion is just made up shit, if people just forgot all about islam and then tried to rebuild it from scratch it would look completely different from the islam we have today

>>14732280
Anti-Islamic sources? Both are just Islamic sources cited and put together by theme.

>>14732332
Don't bullshit, those sites were purely made to attack Islam. These same sources give their own interpretations of verses and hadiths,

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

This site debunks all of that easily in response to the man who created https://www.answering-islam.org/reviews.html who makes similar points brought up by those wikiislam and disprovingislam sites

>>14732291
When did I quote the Quran?

>>14732223
because theyre goat fucking retards still stuck in the bronze age

sage for not /lit/

Here are some resources for exmuslims. Muslims lie all the time about their religion. It is called dawah. All of these materials are about materials that Muslims believe are true not actual history. Actual history is different.

Apostate Prophet.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzREuchzOqiawpEpvEM0Tyg/videos

Abdullah Sameer

https://www.youtube.com/user/abdullahadam

The Masked Arab

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9JU55HpvRvCSb1TO2w_eDA

Ex-Muslim TV

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuA41SlcyHmbzhXMq7bCIDg

>>14732448
Dawah itself is not lying btw. It is just a type of proselytisation. A lot of people who do it online are very willing to lie though and cite stuff they themselves don't even believe.

The quran tells them over and over again what rewards muslims will receive in the afterlife and what the punishment will be for unbelievers. There is nothing ambiguous about it.

>>14732223
>WHEN I READ THE QURAN IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD ACTUALLY BE FROM OUR CREATOR.
It’s because it is, bro. Take shahadah, become a Muslim.

>>14732248
>>14732448

>>14732223
>FUCK HOW DO I STAY CHRISTIAN WITH ALL OF THIS SHIT. WHEN I READ THE QURAN IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD ACTUALLY BE FROM OUR CREATOR. HELP ME BROS
Listen to the Quran being recited and you'll understand

>>14732689
This. I couldn’t understand how people liked the Qur’an until I heard it recited. It made me start learning Arabic as well so I could one day read it
https://youtu.be/ieHCmmiYKIQ

>>14732806
meant for >>14732783

>>14732806
My favorite surah of the Koran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnXUL-qhm2Q

>>14732837
If anything this video proves that kuffar are unable to create EVEN A SINGLE SURAH that can match the beauty of the Qur’an, btfo’ing yourself in the process.

Allahu akbar.

>>14732223
>What if God actually sent another book cause we were so incompetent with the Gospel and fucked with it.
Anon... I have some news for you...

>>14732223

Anon...I have even more news for you...

>>14732885
Is that restaurant any good

>>14732223
MORE NEWS OP

>>14732909
Hush, that is God's language. As revealed by Lê Văn Trung he revealed a universal message in Vietnamese. It must be recited in Vietnamese. After the Muhammad and Confucious messsages were corrupted it was revealed. We then get Cao Dai or he Great Faith [for the] Third Universal Redemption.

>>14732927
Are you from san jose we should meet up sometime

>>14732959
No, I am not. I have been there though. That is the only copy of the Vietnam version of the Great Way I could find.

>>14732223
Cause they are a product of several centuries of first cousin and sibling marriage. Yet they are still somehow smarter than sub Saharan Africans, one of which recently successfully reproduced with a chimpanzee

>>14732457
You can say untrue things while believing they are true. That's what Dawa amounts to.

>>14732223
because we're right,love.
it's time for you to join our ranks.

>>14732448
dawah means proselytization.
all the people you linked are idiots and bad faith actors who've been refuted extensively on every single statement they made.
Critique of our doctrine is fine but it has to be grounded in fucking reality.

>>14733200
Sauce me up senpai

>>14732223

They are not. You just view 'the other' as more simplistic because you are less informed than you are about your own tradition.

Because the muslim world literally hasn't adopted the scientific world view of the universe and they can still project their unconscious to the material world in a way which is not possible for an educated westerner. Shit like transitional soul moving from body to other planes and a transcendental god effecting nature does not interfere their logic, because their logic literally isn't thought up to follow those rules we are taught in school. Our materialistic education is also why the christian myth has been evolving into this metaphorical direction because its literal reading cant be maintained. Put the muslim world through the same schooling and you will find the same results

>>14736700
This is a good answer.
Physicalism/materialism is a retarded position in philosophy of mind btw.
>Shit like transitional soul moving from body to other planes
Well, it's definitely true, but I don't think it validates Islam.

>>14732223
islam is an incel religion. they have historically allowed for polygamy, which then leads to hypergamy, so we see, as we do in the west today, the top 20% of males getting 80% of the pussy. all religions need to guarantee some kind of pussy for the laity, in christianity, we do it with marriage, making sure every dude only gets one bitch. in islam, they guarantee 72 virgins for dying in jihad. this is absolutely central to the religion and without it, the whole thing would fall apart because the incels would just quit.

>>14732223
>perfect book
>has to use abrogation

Do you take the approach that simpler things are more likely to be true when it comes to medicine?

Have you studied other religions included those that are more obviously false?

Have you noticed that the type of belief you are attracted to has a greater connection to technological development than to specific religious teachings?

Take if slow when it comes to conclusion s in religious matters particulary with a religion hat is so hostile to those who try and leave it

>>14732223

If you want to study Islam then go straight to the source - Muslims. Read the Qur’an but it sounds like you already have, so try a version with commentary like the Study Qur’an or Approaching the Qur’an by Michael Sells. A general intro book to Islam like Wisdom of Islam by Robert Frager.

Actual Muslim sources are not historical sources.

For actual history and archeology try the ones below.

Early Islam : A Critical Reconstruction Based on Contemporary Sources by Karl-Heinz Ohlig

Seeing Islam As Others Saw It: A Survey and Evaluation of Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian Writings on Early Islam by Robert G. Hoyland


The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise by Darío Fernández-Morera

Parable and Politics in Early Islamic History:

The Rashidun Caliphs by Tayeb El-Hibri

Early Muslim Dogma: A Source-Critical Study by Michael Cook

Arabia and the Arabs: From the Bronze Age to the Coming of Islam by Robert G. Hoyland

>>14732223
because Islam is true

it makes the most sense in the chronology of all other religions and it has the best conception of God and monotheism

>>14739773

You’re literally suggesting pseudo-historical revisionist works.

>>14740028
Those are all peer-reviewed and do a good job. In fact, Hoyland is considering pretty conserative.You have a range with the most outthere being Karl-Heinz Ohlig but it gives you a good access to the actual field. The only other great figure would be Gabriel Said Reynolds.

>>14740035
Conservative here means he tries to use some materials that Muslims are likely to use albeit with more of semi-critical lens. Most historians and archeologists are not gonna accept that at all.

>>14740035

I mostly only object to Cook and Ohlig. This person I don’t think is looking for or ready to be reading PhD level theoretical works when they may not even know the basic history or teachings of Islam. It’s not exactly an honest representation of history to be saying Ohlig’s or Cook’s views are objective or mainstream.

The Study Qur’an is based on tafsir and was done by academics and Sells is an academic as well.

Ultimately, i know I can’t control what books people read but I can think it’s inadvisable to be getting your views on Islam from Christopher Luxenberg and Ibn Warraq.

>>14740154
I disagree. The actual tafsirs and sirah are not historical. Gabriel Said's Reynolds The Qur’an in Its Historical Context does a good look at the literature and points this out as well. Many things like pre-socratic greek and bedouin paganism or quraish city state religion are obscured.

Ibn Warraq's polemical works are not the same as his academic works on lingustics and Koran variants. An example is his Which Koran ?
Variants , Manuscripts , Linguistics. Luxenberg is another story. His account of the whole Koran being in Syraic is false. He was write on elements of his account. Famously, his Syriac Liturgy and the "Mysterious Letters" in the Qur'ān is still useful. If you want an actual look at where that research went look at the edited volume Christmas in the Koran:
Luxenberg, Syriac, and the Near Eastern and Judeo-Christian Background of Islam edited by Ibn Warraq.

The Newer stuff is analyzing other types of poetry, pre-socratic greeks besides the Syriac Romance of Alexander in the Koran and looking at later Zoroastrian material like the Arta Viraf in the Koran.

>>14740154
If you want to study the religion as a religious practice or what Muslims believe sure sirah and hadith matter. I should point out the newer stuff is not just those figures either.

>>14732223
I agree my fellow white Nazarene, the Holy Qur'an is surely the most beautiful of all literature. I myself learned Arabic despite being raised as an all-American football player in Ohio, simply in order to appreciate its divine beauty. I'm not certain that I'm ready to recite the shahada but surely Mohammed (ṣallā llāhu ʿalayhi wa-sallama) was the most holy of all men!

And hey, how bout dem hijabis brother? ehh? Ehh??

>t. totally not a paki and/or mentally ill discord tranny

>>14732448
You're going to hell.

>>14740196
>mentally ill discord tranny
Ay fuck you, we throw gays off the roof.

>>14740196
>And hey, how bout dem hijabis brother?Unironically the most convincing reason for me to seriously consider Islam's truth. The lack of mandatory head-convering for women in Christianity is surely an indicator that something is not right in it.

>>14741393
Pretty sure we had mandatory head covering for women in Christian countries before the 20th century. Coincidentally also the century when we stopped being Christian.

>>14741410
Are there still Christian groups one could join that still practice proper behaviour for both men and women?

>>14732223
From the end of Revelation

>>14741425
What do you define as "proper behavior"? If it's oriental paranoia and claustration then no, you're out of luck with Christianity.

You can go to a Latin Mass and see plenty of women, though not every, wearing a head covering. Good luck.