/lit/ - Literature

>>14699450
the most amazing thing is that after a certain point you can just compound your wealth and grow wealthier and wealthier for no other reason than having wealth in the first place by extracting ever bigger rents that give you even more capital that allows you to extract even bigger rents, it's like a snowball.

do economists have a term for the line where your wealth starts rapidly compounding just by the sheer size of it? obviously a guy making 50k will see most of it being eaten up by living costs, but there's probably a line where you start saving enough that you can afford to kick off the snowball process.

Long-term investing doesn't any sense if you factor in mortality. "i-if you save $500 a month at projected growth rates, y-you'll be kinda-sorta rich for the last 10 years of your life if you moderately withdraw not exceeding setlf-amortization limits".

Because we live in a post-industrial society. Automation, outsourcing, immigration, finance, central banking, offshore accounts, student debt, opiod epidemic. Goddamn, every day my desire to eat the rich becomes harder to control.

>>14699485
It's a principle at least as old as the Bible:

Matthew 13:12
"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath."

Ever wonder why your rich friends just seem naturally "luckier" than you? It's also related to the Pareto distribution.

t. poorfag

>>14699450
>Brb working soul-crushing job 8 hours a day to make 50k a year.
Imagine not just leeching off the system and forcing the millionaire’s taxes to pay for your upkeep instead

I’m embracing Bohemianism more and more everyday. Wage slavery is inhuman.

>>14699485
>rents
Income from securities growths arent rents because they are a direct result of an increase in total wealth. Obviously this isnt the only source of passive income but buying stocks is not rent-seeking

>>14699537
based & SSDIpilled

>>14699506
So much this. If you don't have what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur or something else that will make you wealthy without saving every single penny you have for 40 years, you should just stick with the fact that you'll never be rich and try to live as comfortably as you can within your reach. It's ridiculous how some people are actually smug about how intelligent they are for investing money that they'll only see again when they're old instead of wasting it on futile stuff. If you get your money by the time you're 60, it's already not worth it. Being a rich old guy isn't even that fun

>>14699575
Yeah it is, you’re loaning our your capital instead of property. If anything actual rent seeking is better because at least the tenants can fight and make the landlords life a pain.

>>14700445
>you should just stick with the fact that you'll never be rich and try to live as comfortably as you can within your reach

that's the problem. this grey area where you live comfortably even if you aren't rich, doesn't exist anymore. you have to go basically into life-long debt to afford even a one bedroom apartment these days.

>>14700522
Who gives a shit about debt when you're dead? Just take out as many loans as you can and defer them as long as you can, and if your creditors try to collect, don't pick up the phone. Try to get more loans and don't pay them off. If all else fails, flee to another country and start a new life there. Keep sucking off that teet until you're dead. Fiat currency is a joke humanity has played on itself that is taken way too seriously. Money will be the least of your worries when you're dead, and be glad your creditors haven't discovered the dark arts of necromancy.

did you mean to click on /biz/

>>14699537
>Millionaire's taxes
Good one.

>>14699506
>what are children

Everyone has a pair of hands they can use to do some sort of labor, not everyone has the capital needed to go through with such grandiose projects. Therefore, capital is worth more than labor in this situation.

>>14700684
This

>>14700637
Reminder, fellow debt chads, contrary to popular belief, that federal student loans CAN be discharged through chapter 7 in bankruptcy court as established by the brunner precedent.

https://www.jthomasblack.com/library/discharging-student-loans-with-the-brunner-test.cfm

The Brunner test has three parts that evaluate whether or not a debtor can afford to pay off their student loans. The Brunner test is named after the case in which it was first used, Brunner v. New York Higher Education Services Corp. The debtor must show the judge that:

1. He has made good faith efforts to repay his student loans.
2. He cannot maintain, based on current income and expenses, a "minimal" standard of living for himself and his dependents if forced to repay the loans.
3. Additional circumstances exist indicating that this state of affairs is likely to persist for a significant portion of the repayment period of the student loans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5X-d47L-7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvj0VUQ8EE0

>>14700674
If you can scarcely afford to retire, your children are going to have a miserable childhood and life growing up. The retirement money from your death is going to be too little and too late.

>>14699506
Your argument makes no sense when you factor in immortality.

>>14699450
i work a soul-crushing manual labor job and i only made 16,000 last year, now i have to pay 4,000 all at once back to taxes, plus my car needs extensive repairs which will be another 1000 at least, and i only have like 3000. at this point i literally can't afford to have a job, it fucking makes no senses, its like i'm in a fucking nightmare dystopia wOrld or something. shouldn't i be making money? all i ever buy is food and books on occasion, which aren't even that expensive, but i always have to pay for some bullshit car repairs and pay my mom rent. what the fuck? HOW AM I LOSING MONEY BY HAVING A JOB???? HOW THE FUCK DO PEOPLE LIKE CAPITALISM??????

>>14700938
It makes even more sense if you factor in immortality. You aren't taking of your assets or debts with you, making them even more irrelevant and making wasting your earthly life on hoarding for 10 "good" years at the end even more pathetic.

>>14700956
They are thouroughly brainwashed into believing that they live in the best times in history. After all, without capitalism you wouldn't be able to buy a $999 iPhone despite living in a miserable cubicle of an apartment while barely being able to pay rent and expenses, right?

>>14700970
i hope they taste God's justice for their crimes. i fucking hate this world so much.

>being poor in the first place
Literally just your fault for not planning your life out better. Turns out you have to actually think about shit and not just laze around reading books all day

>>14700962
I didn't mean Heavenly immortality

>>14700995
>Literally just your fault for not planning your life out better.
This. When workers strike and organise they can get paid fairly for their work.

>>14701014
Then what do you mean?

>>14701058
Your blood lives on if you have children. Also death is not a sure thing, at least not in the time frame you're assuming.

>>14700995
>being wealthy in the first place
Literally just your fault for being born. Turns out you will have to actually go to a labor camp and suffer the rest of your life after the revolution.

>>14701056
lol, only the old boomers, the new kids who get into whatever field we're talking are fucked because they're at the mercy of a bunch of old boomers who want to stay on top. this is how it is in the trades, they keep making it harder and harder to get a license so you can't just go out on your own, you have to work for some boomer who got grandfathered in and charges 1000 dollars for two hours of work that the apprentice does.

>>14701068
By the time scrapping enough to retire would have made any dent, you could have used that money to invest in the children as they were growing in the form of better diet, food, schooling. It's too late to make any difference and by the time they are old and bitter, if anything would have a dysgenic effect. If you aren't fortunate enough to die around 70 and instead live until 80 or 90, it's all going to be gone anyways. All of that, for nothing.

>>14701075
i love you mao poster. we will get them in the fields someday. they will learn the true meaning of work.

>>14701056
Doesn't make a difference. They'll just fire everyone and open a shop in another neighborhood or country.

>>14701094
>fire everyone and open a shop in another neighborhood
Great, now the boss is gone and the original shop is there for the taking. Mission accomplished.

>>14699485
>do economists have a term for the line where your wealth starts rapidly compounding just by the sheer size of it?
I'm not an economist but compound interest?

It doesn't make any sense.i literally cannot fanthom how "money" is made this days. Since I was 12 or 13 I saw all this little shops selling useless stuff and I wondered how the fuck they were able to survive and pay all the bills. They literally sold 30 dollars a day max, wich is not nearly enough to cover all the costs and make a profit. I belong to the 1 % and all the money is made because of connections, no real work is made. It really is a fucking a joke. All the things that really contribute to society and are worth, something, such as universal healthcare, public transportation, public education, housing, etc., lose money. The system is really fucking stupid if those things that contribute the most show up as a negative number in your arbitrary math sheet.

>>14701100
No, he closes shop, shuts the doors, takes, auctions, or scraps the equipment it and prosecutes anyone who stole anything for theft. It is not the workers fault for not organizing, especially whenever unions betray the working class interest by ensuring an administrative hierarchy and closed work force, leaving many as bitter against the union as they were against the capitalist by forcing them to go unemployed and hungry for months. inb4 "I MEANT A RADICAL UNION". Revolutionary unions are even bigger memes, that are more interested in promoting the rights of petite-bourgeois homosexuals, tattooed and purple haired, and lobbying on behalf of capitalist by allowing for a freer flow of labor to be exploited, and "stopping gun violence", than they are in furthering the cause of the working man.

>>14701091
based

>>14701081
Yeah, fuck boomers. I worked for some boomers as an instructor a couple of years ago and they are fucking retarded. "What do you mean I haven't improved this year, I trained so hard", well the fact that you are a 45 year old ignorant looser who has no introspection is not my fault faggot, go back to yell at your wife you miserable piece of shit.

>>14701154
Yes, what you said is unfortunately almost always true if you have a government that sides absolutely with the capitalists. There have been times in the US where that was not the case, and such actions as the one I described were successful.
Unions are very unhealthy at the moment. I'm arguing for them to stop being unhealthy. So by saying they are unhealthy *at the moment* you are really not disagree with me at all.

>>14699450
Because one cannot keep millions of workers in a bank. Chattel slavery was inefficient. This way you pay the workers to take care of themselves, all the while paying you for rent and supplies and such.

>>14699485
fpbp

this is why, OP. because it takes zero effort and is accomplishable by one man and "the system." whereas labor takes management and teams and logistics and all kinds of middle men.

>>14701124
It's all rent seeking. Money becomes abstract numbers in a bank. This is why despite GDP being higher than ever, there is no increase in the standard of living or quality of life for the people living in the country. The rich get richer while not producing anything of value for society

Labor is abundant. Capital must be accumulated.

>>14699450
Not sure what your level of economic literacy is but it's because of the (arguably jewish and immoral) time value concept of money
A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow

When you invest money you're (theoretically) giving it to someone else to do something productive with it and you are taking the risk that they might fail and lose all your money

The availability of debt, and the ability for businesses to have access to capital advances to start themselves is what allowed us to industrialize

Being against the time value of money is basically being against industrialization
Which is a valid position, but that's basically the answer to your question

The real question you should ask is why do we value things over people

>>14701192
One is real. One is a fictitious concept.

>>14701212
Because we live in a consoomer society with more than 7 billion people on Earth, human life is cheap because its so abundant

>>14699450
Me, I believe that money is useless if you can't do good with it, which is why I am considering religious life.

t. Catholic

To me, I would rather be poor, but Holy, then Rich, but disillusioned. I am thinking about being benedictine or Carmalite monk and what little money I make goes to the community. Better to serve God than be the king of Hell

>>14699537
>Imagine not just leeching off the system and forcing the millionaire’s taxes to pay for your upkeep instead
but how will i afford to build my victorian library...

>>14699485
And generationally the wealth tends to not last, meaning that the patriarch was doing something that lead to returns which his children didn’t manage, meaning that it’s not as simple as having a pile of cash and because it’s large it grows on its own.

You are like 40% right and I would sympathize with your post if you didn’t make it so gay and Marxian

>>14699450
>1 million in some generic shit that returns 5%, I'm making 50k a year, while doing nothing
1. your 1 million was gained by (a) either working really hard [not likely] (b) or having the skills, knowledge, talent, or luck that others did not have and thereby has greater value than a bagboy

2. (keeping it simple) your 1 million then paid the salaries of 20 people each making 50k a year each working 8 hours a day to staff and run a small business that made a 1,050,000 in sales that year of which 50k is profit which you are entitled to keep. It made the 50k because the business (much like your initial self) had a product that could be sold for more than it cost to make -- something which is by no means guaranteed nor are returns ever guaranteed (which means you also get paid a little extra for taking the risk--something none of the 9-5ers make)

in my mind everyone here is breaking even. it's all about pricing luck.

>>14700410
I got diagnosed with Bipolar and a, currently on meds. Can I get this? No one ever told me this was an actual thing wtf

>>14699450
Why WOULDN'T labor be cheap when you can just import an unlimited amount of it?

Labor's bargaining power against Capital has been systematically undermined for decades, and it will continue to be undermined indefinitely because Jews told you that not supporting wage suppression is racist and you believed them like a good dog.

>>14701397
you can apply
If you don't get it just have your parents bring you to the hospital and start dropping redpills and call all the doctors jews and assault anyone who tries to restrain you

You'll have to do a stint in the psych ward but you're guaranteed to qualify after that

>>14699450
the answers you seek lie in economics; literature may help but will never resolve these issues.

Why is this thread on /lit/

>>14701075
Absolutely fucking based
Maoposters and Tedposters are the best people on this site

>>14701546
something something marxism

>>14701219
You're right, labor isn't real.

>>14699450
>Why is labor so poorly valued and capital so highly?
In a word: property. You answered your own question. Labor is valued so poorly because capital is valued so highly. Dividends which could be distributed to labor is instead concentrated (because why wouldn't you concentrated it if you could get away with it, it is the instrumental purpose of business.) Capital begets capital. Capital is invested in revenue streams, and the increased revenue then raises the valuation of the principal. Finance functions as a self-contained, independently operating layer (financialization) ever more distancing itself from labor. Labor is undermined, collective bargaining fragmented and outlawed, workers atomized, so that this layer can continue to operate in an abstracted disconnect from the real economy.

>>14701276
based

>>14701617
Absolutely absurd post. Labor is poorly valued because its not required in great amounts to increase productivity as time goes on. Labor is poorly valued because of globalism and global arbitrage. Labor is valued poorly because anyone can do it and people all over the world are chomping at the bit to do it cheaper than their neighbor.

>Capital begets capital
There are two things here: One is property and the hoarding (ownership) of limited resources which everyone needs and exploiting this. There is no wealth creation from the rent-seeker.

The other is investing money in things that return capital through productive means. Example, investing money in the stock market is basically lending money to a company in exchange for a share of its profits. That money from the stock you purchased goes towards hiring people, towards R&D, towards marketing, towards training, etc. You invest in something that increases productivity and if its something the world deems valuable and profitable you get to make some money on it.

Its only (one) that should be dealt with (violently). Two is fine and perfectly normal. Institute an LVT and dictate that property is all owned by the government and people only get 99 year leases or something. Residential properties should deprecate over time.

>>14700703
this hardly ever works, I would not rely on passing the Brunner test

>>14701075
yup, the revolution any day now

hope it isn’t coopted by a fast food ad campaign!

>>14701778
Opponents of capitalism being reduced to commodities is pretty funny, although sad.

>>14701788
Absurdism is a great drug when paired with optimism.

>>14699524
ok boomerson

>>14701075
BASED MAOPOSTER

>>14701192
okay boomer

>>14700991
Seriously man. Yeah we live in relative safety in society but it's so obvious we are slaves. This level of exploitation cannot be ignored.

>>14700995
Being poor is cyclical. Our parents were shit and thought about nothing and kind of fucked us over and the world is predatory and fucked us over even more when we left the shitty school that taught us nothing about survival in this place. Literally just taught US about how America defeated the Nazis.

>>14701075
Very based

>>14701276
You're a breath of fresh air in a godless country.

>>14701880
its something much fucking worse than slavery, because a slave at least has living quarters and meals, we, on the other hand, are expected to go out and take care of all of our basic survival needs during the few hours we aren't working. like if i were a literal slave, i would grind out in the fields, and then i would get off my shift, because the slave driver will obviously want to keep me in working condition, and then some other chef slave will have food prepared for me, then i will get to go sleep i my own slave quarters and not have to worry about doing laundry or paying rent because some other laundry slave will do that and the slave driver owns the place outright so no rent obviously. whatever the fuck we have now is way fucking worse than slavery. i wish i was a fucking slave.

>>14699450
Real question is why time is so poorly valued. I could give less of a fuck about the labor, it's the time I can't get back. Any work week over 24 hours in inhumane, and that includes commute and break times.

>>14699450
Because using capital to properly allocate resources leads to an infinitely more valuable arrangement of those resources than labor.

12:20Am. Need to get up at 6:30 AM to drive an hour to work. Work with my father and he's gone senile and particular and just confuses the fuck out of everyone by panicking when nothing goes wrong and rummaging through paperwork and such. I've been at this for a month, I really don't know how boomers live to work. This shitty job is is entire life for 40 years, he's completely alienated from his family and isn't even close to his co workers.

>>14699450

Labor is replaceable, capital isn't.

Pretty obvious honestly.

>>14701276
>t. Catholic
How do you feel about the fact that everyone managing Epstein's trial was Catholic?

>>14700995
You will learn this when you move out of Daddy's house. Your socioeconomic class comes down to how many times you are allowed to fuck up

I come from a very wealthy, well connected family and half my friends either have DUIs or went to rehab. Most of them now have very lucrative jobs because their parents unconditionally threw money at them

The amount of poor people who pulled them selves up by their bootstraps are vastly outnumbered by poor people who had their lives fall apart because of a medical bill or a parking violation

>>14702054
i'm convinced medical bills are propaganda. People don't typically require expensive surgeries of of nowhere, most of it is just fat ass diabetus and high blood pressure medication.

Poor people are also horrible with money, if they have money they drink beer all night, if they are broke in the morning the drink water. They aren't getting fucked up by parking tickets. If you give them free money they just spend the extra money on novelties like rims or some shit and maintain current living and saving habits.

Rich people being party loving troublemakers getting bailed out all the time is also a fucking meme.

Your socioeconomic class comes from capital and attractiveness.

People get payed poorly because they accept poor pay. You aren't being forced to do anything.

>>14702100
The job seeker/job maker power dynamic is fair and balanced. Bargaining power is equal.

>>14702083
You are talking about niggers anon, most of them are on gibs of some sort
>Rich people being party loving
Yes, that's not to say they don't also work hard
Your upper middle class mind can't comprehend the lives of the actual rich

>>14702083
I wouldn't say it ruined their life but I know people that have suffered serious consequences from having their car towed
>i'm convinced medical bills are propaganda
You're just outing yourself as underage

>>14702138
>You're just outing yourself as underage
I'm not an amerifat. Paying for health insurance=/= randomly coming down with some major medical issue or getting in a car wreck. It simply isn't the norm. Worse case scenario is declaring bankruptcy, which honestly isn't a big deal for someone low income with few assets in the first place.

>>14702155
>Worse case scenario is declaring bankruptcy, which honestly isn't a big deal for someone low income with few assets in the first place
lmao this is total bro finance

>>14699450
not very lit but I like it. as outdated as the wealth of nations is, I think it hit the nail on the head for this topic. employment is a trade, and the wealthier person can hold out until the poorer person goes hungry an accepts any deal offered. if you don't know what inelastic demand is, you can't see where capitalism helps and where it hurts.

>>14702174
It's gonna work for DSP. Poor retards are always maxing out credit cards anyway.

The only actual excuse for money being tight is abhorrent housing prices. Very few people get "ruined" for things outside their control. Most are just maxing out credit cards to buy toys and not understanding how interest works.

>>14702185
>the wealthier person can hold out until the poorer person goes hungry an accepts any deal offered.
People have figured out how to beat that strategy: just die lol.

>>14702193
that or organize. If EVERY laborer became employed by Labour LLC temps, how would that company increase their share value?

>>14699450
From this thread you can see that the majority of /lit/:

- is poor
- works at shitty jobs
- hates rich people
- really hates rich people
- is on medication
- has severe psychological damage
- feels oppressed by people who are better than they are
- has never read an Economics textbook
- is almost certainly very ugly, out of shape and has small deformations alongside some parts of their bodies

These are the people who like to praise Nietzsche's "master morality" and who consider themselves superior to the rest of the world because they read some novels now and then.

How tiresome.

>>14699506
treat morality as a probability function. also daily reminder that a 12-year old Chinese peasant would run circles around a Marxist in a math competition

>>14702233
whats a good economic textbook youd suggest

>>14702230
If you organize, you are no longer a laborer, you are a capitalist.

>>14702395
I'd love to see how your semantics define socialism.

>>14702317
Mankiw

>>14701075
Maoposting is the best thing to come to /lit/ in a while

>>14702083
>Poor people are also horrible with money, if they have money they drink beer all night, if they are broke in the morning the drink water.
Blaming poor people for bad spending habits makes no sense. The economy depends on them consuming like this. Not to mention like this guy >>14699506 says, being 'good' with money makes no sense when you're poor because you aren't going to see any benefit from it. Any money a poor person could save/invest from not consuming is so small that it becomes difficult to argue for actually doing that.

>>14702276
Reminder that if that chinese 12 year omd is smart he would probably end a marxist/socialist himself

>>14702276
>treat morality as a probability function

>>14703194
i miss these niggas like you wouldn't believe

>>14702895
You must be poor

>>14703471
You must be rich

>>14702233
>Economics textbook
ask me how I know you are retarded

>>14701316
>the patriarch was doing something that lead to returns which his children didn’t manage,
This happened in my family. My dad built a construction company after leaving the Navy after WWll. I sold my half to my brother after dads death. When my brother got too ill to work, his kids pissed away millions in cash and wrecked the company in just a few years.
On the other hand, I invested well and grew the original investment.
If a family fortune is to survive beyond the 2nd generation, the family usually needs to be removed from control of it, and it should be managed by professionals in an appropriate "Family Office" structure.

>>14701276
You phrased the situation in binary terms, as if those were the only choices, which is a falsehood leading to a predetermined solution of your own choosing.
It's possible to have wealth, be happy, and do good and godly things with it. It all depends on your outlook on life.
I'm financially independent, happy, and spend my spare time focused on helping addict and alcoholics get sober.
Inner happiness is the foundation of everything you do. You need that first. Money is an unrelated factor.

>>14700637
>creditors haven't discovered the dark arts of necromancy.
Lobbyist are working in congress to change laws to where the deceased survivors can be pursued for the debt of the deceased. It's moving slowly, but persistently, in the background. Don't be surprised when the financial machine gets it's way.

>>14703681
Then help me out, please.
1sAhEJRXEay3jj8dXDZbgBWKqUmWFJcGr

>>14700956
>HOW THE FUCK DO PEOPLE LIKE CAPITALISM?
Only the wealthy and those on their way to wealth like capitalism. Wagecucks are brainwashed to accept their fate by being told "one day, you too can be rich. Just work hard and save your shekels. You can invest them in my company, I won't charge you very much for that privilege."

>>14703749
Honestly wagies are even more cucked than that. Some of them like being cucked.

>>14700956
>making that little
>owing taxes

You dun goofed.

>>14701075
Keep fighting mao poster!

>>14702233
From this post we can discern that you

-like big cocks in your mouth
-like big cocks in your ass
-are gay
-are very gay
-have a small penis
-suck your moms dick

I know this because i am very smart and also I can tell when people are gay.

>>14700956
>>14703818
So, assuming this guy is American he should only owe a total of about $600 after the standard deduction. Then he should be able to take more to lower that amount or apply for government programs to get an extra couple hundred bucks. Even being a total retard and not taking anything he should only owe $1600.

Working full time that's a minimum wage tier job that either in the country where rent should be cheap or he's getting absolutely butt-fucked in a city and should just get a different job. In the country, living expenses should be less than $800 and he should have closer to $6k to fix his car and for other discretionary stuff.

>>14699450
Nobody values labor. Work produces nothing by itself.

>>14702317
Capital.

>>14703892
What about when you're working a shitty job and have nothing productive to do so you get put on meaningless busywork? Is this not valuing labor the sake of labor?

>>14701075
Mass landlord lynching when

>>14703994
when bernie sanders becomes president and declares a dictatorship of the proletariat.

>>14699524
luck is the biggest spook—I hate when people talk about how successful people were just "in the right place at the right time" when in reality it's just a matter of showing up and participating and being likable, all things people who think they're just "unlucky" refuse to put any effort into. Same goes for things like car crashes and theft: you're only unlucky that you weren't born with the awareness to recognize risk and take preventative measures.

>>14703994
cool it with the anti-semitic remarks

>>14699450
Because labor is fucking dumb and slave mentality. Dude it's not even HARD to start investing and playing stocks to earn a bit of extra cash on the side. I'm not a serious investor and do it more as a side hobby but I've made pretty damn good money doing it and have been able to do a lot of cool things solely from my investment profits without ever touching the cash I've earned from work. Why the fuck would you want to work some faggot 8 hour job every day to begin with? Nobody has ever in history wanted to do that except faggot beta agricultural societies that always get wiped away clean by superior and healthier predatory cultures.

>>14699506
>saving money = investing
Once again Marxists confirming they have no absolute fucking clue about even the most basic principles of econmics.
https://www.investopedia.com/ Here's some reading retard.

>>14703994
>>14704143
Americans got cucked and dociled by the urbanization meme that always cucks people. How the fuck could you expect it to be otherwise in a city? You think a state mandated rent control system is going to keep sharks away? The state just becomes the shark.

>>14704162
>saving money and not investing
Even more retarded. It's almost implicit. Also, being aware of your impending mortality and equating saving to investing does not make you a Marxist, brainlet.

Here's some fucking best-case scenario reading, retard:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_verified_oldest_people

>>14704110
>probability is a spook
No but the other things you mention are.

>>14704095
SOON.

>>14704240
Unless you are somehow completely incapable of understanding basic trends in economics you can profit in as little as one month. WTF are you even trying to convince me of here? Also, this argument that "heh well one day anon..... you will be dead" is gay.

>>14704268
I'm trying to convince you of this: >>14699506

>>14704273
But who the fuck is investing 20+ years in stocks and other assets....? Sure, you can keep a portfolio running that long but you can make serious gains with some long term planning too, particularly if you are fortunate enough to be able to read the market appropriately.

>>14704268
>>14704285
>whoah 1 month of market-rate gains on low net wealth and low disposable income!!!!!!!!!!!! but if you keep on doing, subscribe to /r/personalfinance, y-you'll have enough to retire on by the time you're 65 and have glacoma, heart disease, based!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you just gotta read the market bro, trust me, the efficient market hypothesis isn't real.

>>14704289
It sounds to me like you made bad personal decisions in your youth, presumably took the college meme pill, have a lot of debt from your basedboy professors to live their globalhomo lifestyles, never invested anything in your life, and have no organized plan of action for the next 5 years. Why is that any one elses fault but your own?

>>14699450
Most of those millionaires' families are broke within 2 generations. Its not that easy. Most hedge funds and venture capital firms don't make money for the investor after taking fees into account.

>>14699450
The market doesn't give a shit if you work hard, only if you work smart. Investing in the right stocks is smarter than wageslaving thus the investor is better rewarded than the wagecuck. Wagecucks should just accept that the market doesn't own them fairness and should stop complaining already about being poor

>>14704307
Sounds to me like you have no argument, raged in reply with an ad hominem, and are coping with the fact that you're slaving away "investing" a minuscule sum of money in hopes of taking it out in your old age to enjoy your golden years and ill health and misery. Investing makes perfect sense if mortality isn't part of the equation. It is. You're going to be dead in another 40 or 50 years and if you did not start out with a very high sum of capital in the first place, then it makes little sense to sacrifice quality of life now in hopes of a very-long term future pay off. If you have viable opportunities (meaning non-public information) here for short-term wins, investing is wise, or intend to exploit disability laws in order to avoid penalties, yes, it can be tactical to invest. Otherwise, midwit /r/personalfinance advice, muh 401k, and other bullshit is simply worthless.

>>14704384
Hahahaha 40 or 50 years is a fucking long time and considering that I've already made some good savings based solely off investing and playing the stock game your argument to me is just pathetic.

>>14704380
>Investing in the right stocks
No such thing as "the right stocks" unless you mean insider trading, competitor sabotage or market manipulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient-market_hypothesis

>>14704384
Just before I forget, in a week when I actually play aggressive with the market I can make as much as I do per my normal job. I'm not claiming riches here but what you're saying is just nihilistic and gay.

>>14699450
The people with capital are the people who decide how things are run. So they decide to pay workers less and take more for themselves.

>>14699450
Because labor is subsumed by capital and not the other way around.

>>14704400
OP made the argument: 1) He has no starting assets, 2) earns a pre-tax salary of 50k a year, 3) has investment opportunities around market rate of 5%. Under these assumptions, >>14699506 applies to him.
Investing it would lead to growth and financially speaking is "smart" but by the time he could utilize it, it will be totally moot. It would sacrifice his quality of the life in the here and now in exchange for a future "payoff".
>>14704415
>n=1 investment
In the long-run, this strategy will result in similarly sized losses, ultimately averaging the market rate.

>>14704441
Presumably not considering you can directly correlate growth. Unless your ultimate argument is seriously, "well you are going to die someday" which to me is just nonsensical and presumably hypocritical. 50k a year pre-tax salary is not even bad and there is most certainly room for investment in that.

>>14704441
I mean jesus my first portfolio over 10 years grew some 5k to about 22k and I was only 18 then and thats not even including the other investments I have made, assets acquired, and income received outside of that. You're making it sound like investment growth is impossible with time which doesn't make a grain of logic.

>>14704441
NOOOOO I CAN'T INVEST I NEED TO CONSOOM RIGHT NOW

>>14700956
There is always light after dark night (except there isnt and you are fucked, your life will just get worse, take it from me)

>>14700970
Buying that iPhone is why they're poor.

>>14703884
>should just get a different job
Not everyone can do that, its easier for me to do hard labor than actually go through the process of getting another job.

>>14704110
>it's just a matter of showing up and participating and being likable,
Yes, when on is rich already then just showing up will likely warn him money through connections etc. Poor person showing up will result in nothing UNLESS THEY are lucky then someone will notice them or something good will happen to them.

The mission is simple:

>Use foreign capital and market reforms to create the productive forces that socialism requires.
>Improve the moral character of society based on communitarian principles.
>Become self sufficient
>Give the people education and healthcare, and develop infrastructure


Comrade Xi will deliver us.

Labor will always be mundane for most people desu, I dont think any economic model can fix this. Time is the more important recourse we cant get back

>>14701056
And then they import third-worlders by the millions, replacing you like a cattle breed to die out in hunger while some Pajeet Pendejo ChingChong does your job. Then what? An armed revolt? That's communism baby.

>>14704584
>China
>self-sufficient
kek

>>14704613
China will always depend on other nations for steel and oil, but there is great potential for China to be self sufficient in most ways. It won't matter too much though.

Since China will soon be the hegemonic world power.

>>14699450
>Why is labor so poorly valued and capital so highly
Because Marx was unironically right.

>>14702083
>i'm convinced medical bills are propaganda
Can't afford good food, eat shit
@
High stress job environment grinds on the nerves
@
Can't just fly away to Costa Rica to smell fresh air, breath car fumes instead
@
The body is not pleased at a,l and breakes because of not eating steakes with fruits on the East African Savannah every day and leisurely sleeping the next 12 hours
@
...
@
>i'm convinced medical bills are propaganda. People don't typically require expensive surgeries of of nowhere
No shit they don't. Slaves need to be regularly imported/captured, because they don't procreate for shit and constantly die from diseases and conditions caused by overwork. Hard labour equals much bodily pain, equals bills or death.

I am convinced that if you aren't a Marxist in the current year you are plainly just narrow visioned and retarded.

>>14704285
>Sure, you can keep a portfolio running that long but you can make serious gains with some long term planning too, particularly if you are fortunate enough to be able to read the market appropriately.
Sure, you can keep a lottery running that long but you can make serious gains with some long term gaming too, particularly if you are fortunate enough to be able to choose the numbers appropriately.
Absent of some serious inside knowledge, the finances are a scam, a lottery leeching of useful idiots. There were !SCIENTIFIC! inquiries that showed that playing in stocks is worse than playing pocker or buying lottery tickets for the same amount of cash invested.

>>14704460
OP implied zero starting assets. Most 18 year olds without employment experience do not have the disposable income to invest an initial $5000. As for the growth to 20k, assuming you invested an additional $500 every year on top of that, that's not impressive and is similar to historical market rate of 10% growth.

After federal taxes, and benefits, he will be taking home approximately $3000 a month. Given that he has no assets, he will need to rent, which will be roughly $1000 a month. Food expenses, $500 a month for one person. $300 a month for gasoline/car insurance/vehicle maintenance and let's just say $200 a month for other (phone/internet/sanitary/pre-deductible health expenses, etc) gives him a very generous, bordering on best-case scenario, $1000 a month to invest. This is assuming no debts either.

Assuming there are no market upheavals and he has diversified, he will have earned a little over $2M dollars by the time he is 55 if he started at age 25 which will give him after capital gains and other taxes about $60k/year to live off of for the next 30 years. That's not that great after expenses. Might as well be skip all the hassle and be a literal welfare leach collecting $1500 a month of SSDI during his prime with unlimited free time instead.

>>14704709
what is in it for all the people who don't get to control the tyrannical re-education state before "true communism" magically appears because reasons?

>>14704734
Depends on how well off they were before the revolution.

>>14704709
>dude, what if like, money wasn't real and everybody could just do whatever they wanted

>>14704734
There is no true communism. That is all ideology. Read Marx.
>>14704767
Read Marx.

>>14702054

Your last statement is far from reality dude. I've been working class poor my whole life and I've seen everyone in my income demographic just get fucking wrecked under the weight of the problems that come with being born poor.

Speaking from personal experience, I'm already done for. I'm on my way to prison in a few months for a crime I didn't do, I'm 7k in the hole, and my family taught me literally jack shit. My life has been a series of learning the hard way.

All this bullshit that these middle class and upper middle class fucks say about how capitalism is good only goes as far as it benefits them and the privileges that come with their social status. The minute these people are getting fucked somewhere up on the food chain, then they'll fight tooth and nail for every last thing they have that's jeopardized.

Fuck capitalism. You have to be either a self narcissistic sociopath hellbent on acquiring total control and power or a privileged lower class retard to think this system is somehow STILL efficient today.

>>14699450
Why do both the left and the right try to reduce the complexity of our system of productive enterprise to only two of its elements, money and manpower, and putting them at odds? It is really an oversimplification for oversimplified ideologies, the product of Epistemological Dichotomania...

>>14703935
The labor still isn't valued. If you don't have anything productive to do then the employer doesn't need you, but they can't cut your hours (unless you're on a shitty part time contract). The hours are protected by law and unions, but that still isn't what's valued. What is valued is the wage. The more purchasing power a person has the more they can improve their standard of living, but most importantly, the more they contribute back to the economy by buying things with their wages. 90% of jobs in modern first world economies are pointless tertiary jobs that produce nothing, yet everyone is still working a 40 hour week and getting paid quite handsomely to do nothing, compared to third worlders who work very hard and get paid in pennies. The modern economy revolves around the luxury wage of first worlders, it's what keeps money moving around the world. Unfortunately offshoring all industry to the third world means Western economies have become dependent on countries like China who actually produce the world's goods.

>>14704805
I want to hear more about the conviction. Story time, please.

vote for bernie

read mmt lit

run for local office

>>14704777
You haven't read Marx.

>>14704729
so thats 60k/year + regular pensions?
Seems pretty good no?

Have you tried actually doing some manual labor? I've had a task to move a heap of gravel from point A to point B. Some hours later i was surprised to find out that the original heap barely changed while i was already exhausted.
With basic labor you can clearly see limitations of it: more or less anyone can do it so you can go with more desperate people who would work for less and you are not actually putting that big of a dent in a project, meaning that you are not bringing that much of a value, however exhausting it may be.
"Capital" allows to make it so a bunch of inefficient people would work a prolonged amount of time on one project. However big and complicated it ensures that something unfathomable to one person will be completed without necessarily bringing in any value for prolonged periods of time, maybe never.
Regarding individuals with capital, i'm not sure how they fare. I'm pretty sure people who are relatively well off can be done in with a couple of bad financial decisions or changes in the industry/market. We also need billionaires to invest in big shit like tesla, someone who is willing and capable investing in something that is risky. That or banks/governments need to be less risk averse, which can tremendously backfire though.
as for the potential trillionaires and beyond I only have disco Elysium as a frame of reference for that and if we assume they are statistically above failure it does seem unreasonable for an individual to hold this much power, they are more of a force of nature at that point which isn't very christian i don't think.

>>14704884
No, because you are going to die. You wasted your prime for nothing.

>>14704884
>yeah bro, live like a dog for 30 years in exchange for a mediocre retirement

>>14704953
>>14704974
Or just get a decent work which dont make you feel suicidal
Happy days.

>>14705010
>decent work
>make 50k
Pick one.

>>14699450
5% is actually really narrow margins though after inflation.
Average yearly inflation over time is 3.22% in the US, which doesn't seem too bad until you realize with compounding that it only takes 22 years for prices to double, so it takes 2 million in 22 years to buy what your million can buy today(in general anyway, some goods underpace inflation and others outpace it.)

At your 5% rate of return you have 2.925 million in 22 years. After subtracting 2 million(essentially has the same value as your initial investment) you have $925000, divide this in half to reflect its lower value, $462500 and divide by 22, 21k for each year. The usual way to calculate this though is to subtract the inflation rate from the expected ror, but this is better if you're pulling the gains out each year, at which point you're looking at an average gain of 18k yearly after inflation.

>>14701316
>And generationally the wealth tends to not last
Debatable, there are a lot of wealthy dynasties, and those whose lose their wealth often do so because of the latter's generation bad spending habits and/or unforeseen collapse of an industry or investment process.
Clearly it's not as simple as automatically accumulating wealth, but past a certain threshold it still offers pretty safe returns.

>>14705108
>At your 5% rate of return you have 2.925 million in 22 years
Completely unrealistic.
That's investing 100% of his 50k/year salary UNTAXED without any expenses, not even eating. That's impossible. Actually, I don't even think it would work out to that much.

>>14701383
It might be something more passive like owning real-estate in the right place.

>>14701212
>Being against the time value of money is basically being against industrialization
It's even older than industrialiazation and in a way built in the very concept of money.

>>14701706
t. Department of Education shill.

>>14701706
It worked for me.

>>14699522
>opiod epidemic
There is no empirical evidence to support the "opioid epidemic" of the 2010s-2020s. Opioid use peaked in the 1990s and has been falling since. Constant media bombardment of anecdotes, lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies, and contrived "OD" statistics (reported any time any time a patient who received a CII opioid goes to the ER and asked if they have been taking medication) does not make it real.

>>14703994
>grow up in a lower middle class family
>Do decent in school, go to the local public university, major in an in demand degree
>Work full time, cut expenses, save and invest, only buy necessities
>Do this for years, finally have enough to buy property
>Live in that home for years, get near retirement age, want to move
>Decide to rent it out at market value
>23 year old pot smoker working part time as a social media advisor decides that you're oppressing him
>Get lynched

>>14705331
Any proof that all the statistics are contrived? Proof that opioid use peaked in the 90s?
Stop bullshitting and source your claims god dammit

>>14705387
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/139/4/e20162387.full.pdf

As you can see, both medical and non-medical use peaked in the 1990s, rebounded slightly, and has been falling again dramatically since about 2010.

The only thing that has changed is "overdose" statistics, which is only mandatory reporting is now required by hospitals, which includes any adverse reaction to opioids pharmaceuticals, (eg. I would need to report a GI bleed induced by aspirin in Synalgos DC as an overdose). I will be the first to admit that actual cases of ODs have increased too because prosecution is usually no longer a ramification in most states, so drug addicts no longer face legal risk by calling 911 or visiting a hospital for overdose as was (especially when dealing with non-medical intermediaries) or was perceived to be the case in the past. Addicts, and attention seekers are free to come to the hospital every few weeks without any adverse consequences. Hospitals also receive state subsidies now, and free Nalaxone from their state so they have an incentive to report as many cases as possible. Pharmacists, EMTs, if I 'm not mistaken, even school teachers are also able to dispense nalaxone in most jurisdictions, and it is reported, and many mistake people receiving it as an incident of an overdose which is not necessarily true.

Another dishonest statistic is death rate of opioids which previously was only attributable to the strict definition of respiratory depression. Now, the definition includes anyone who has died with any trace of opioids in their system, even if it wasn't an overdose.

There is no evidence that actual opioid usage has increased. All evidence points to the contrary.


1/2

>>14705870
2/2

>inb4 big pharma shill
Most opioids are generic drugs, with long expired patents and traditionally were one of the cheapest medications out there. The 1990s saw a relaxed FDA willing to approve any combo-formula, granting exclusivity, allowing for price gauging. This indeed did lead to specific marketing to physicians of formulations such as OxyContin, translating transfer prescribing practices from older solo-formulation drugs to that specific product, but it did not lead to any net increase in OVERALL opioid prescribing rates. Instead of morphine sulfate IR TID for instance, a patient would get OxyContin. It is dishonestly stated sometimes "look at the rise of oxycontin use, it's insane", but this does not take into account the concurrently equal fall in the prescription rates of older opioids. The argument using this as a basis "pill pushing" is meaningless with this in mind.

By the 2010s, most of these drugs lost their exclusivity and became generic, all this was accompanied by a more rigorous FDA, making new opioid formulations harder to approve, as well as decreased scheduled manufacturing quotas from their counterpart, escalation of schedules of various drugs (Many C-IIIs and C-IVs became C-IIs), which essentially spelled the end of opioid development. Opioids have not been profitable since then. They lost all incentive to "push', them. The era of profitability had ended. The idea that an industry-insider would shill for dated, now generic drugs with over a dozen manufactures, is laughable. In fact, their disinterest in it, opened the door to liability as they empathized with victims in face of scrutiny in for sake of PR and to throw physicians under the bus. This of course backfired.

In point of fact, most pharmecutical companies now actively lobby IN FAVOR OF opioid epidemic actions because it is extremely profitable, and allows them to charge whatever they want. It allows them to sell nalaxone injectors at the insane cost of $4000 per use, and nobody bats an eye. This profit margin goes completely unchecked, by design. Federal subsidies alone for the 'opioid epidemic' are nearly 10 billion year which dwarfs the yearly revenue of Purdue's entire line of opioids during it's heyday. The only new formulations of opioids approved recently have been mu opioid receptor antagonists like nalaxone and subsitution therapy drugs (eg. buprenorphine), which are much more profitable for big pharma to sell than dated generic theraputic opioids with long expired patents.

most interesting thread on /lit/ rn

>>14701397
Yes, you'll qualify. You don't need to go to the psych ward either. Also, you'll get free premium medical care for life with no deductible. Expect between $800 to $2800 a month untaxed depending on what your average income of the past 10 years was + free health care and + $200 a month in SNAP benefits. You're going to be better off than the cucks who work 40 hours a week, live austerely in order to save for retirement what you'll be making in your prime doing nothing. You hit the lottery, pal.

Search your local city + disability lawyer. They'll be happy to guide you through the steps.

Look into public housing and bunkrupcy too if you really want to take it up a notch.

>>14699450
"muh investing" is literal usury, and helps the fat cats keep the little guy down

>>14707129
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/

You're welcome

>>14704506
kek

though labour came first.
And any man who accumulates wealth must have some sort of skill.
Back in the day it was leveraging violence, or food, or some product like building a solid house.

Capital now has primacy however, becuase labour isn't a store of value, but is valued on it demand on the current moment.
Leading to second point that fluctiations in price and value for capital might make it a poor store of value, one thing though islabour is hard to quantify becuase it isn't a "thing" but something you do.
A blacksmith could churn out 20 halberds a day but they could be poorly made.

Also those who have hoarded these trinkets have convinced those with labour that they are better off trading labour for capitol.
So inthat respect capitol will always subvert and co-opt labour.
This is what pisses me off about the act of liberation.
That many richfags have conviced many that liberation can be traded for capitol.
It makes me weep.

>>14707176
I'm already a NEET, bro, I don't need $1million to have trouble coming up with reasons to get out of bed in the morning.

>>14707256
>And any man who accumulates wealth must have some sort of skill.

>>14707256
brainlet + weed = this post

The two posts above mine
glow too much to be given you's


Brainlets still matter.
Becuase for an awfully small brain they tend to take up alot of space in their heads.

>>14707306
what these two?
>>14707281
>>14707291

>>14707306
You just proved my point, thank you..

Can someone merge the two pictures of these thread? I dragged the two together and took a screenshot and thought it looked really cool. My photo-editing skills are limited to Microsoft Paint.

>>14707456
You would do that wouldnt you

But this aint politics
its the truth.

>>14707616
*hits bong*

>>14699506
THIS
>hooo boy jee willickers, if i live like a pauper and work like a slave, i can be moderately well provided for when i'm a geriatric
holy fuck just kill me.

>>14700637
based. when i'm an old fuck i'm going to spend all my money and take out a bunch of debt, only pay the minimum payment, and have the time of my life. then i'm going to fucking off myself and the credit card companies can blow it out their ass.

Poor people are not valuable, but that's more of a mindset instilled by consumerism than anything else. For poor people living and working on yourself and your own things are less important than showing off. America's poor wear ill fitting clothes in dirty apartments but, because we value showing off, buy the latest air pods, 10 pairs of shoes, and finance a new car that ends up filled with trash. These people will always be poor and begging for money; you cannot change them. The imperative is to endlessly consume.

And when they do that, they live paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford to negotiate or try anything out of fear of losing. Because of that they are cucked to the masters that pay their wage.

But, if you place a financially smart person in a similar situation, they quickly stop living paycheck to paycheck, have a clean apartment, then wear clothes that fit and say "I'm not a poor person". They find themselves in a position where they have choice and appear put together enough so that others will listen. They can go and ask for things, go and try simply because they can deal with the alternative to success. The ability to do so doesn't require a million bucks, it just requires personal responsibility and a resistance to consumerism.

>>14700674
Vanity objects for the very wealthy.

>>14708213
>But, if you place a financially smart person in a similar situation, they quickly stop living paycheck to paycheck, have a clean apartment, then wear clothes that fit and say "I'm not a poor person". They find themselves in a position where they have choice and appear put together enough so that others will listen.
I am here. However, you asshole, there's a huge cliff-face between being "not paycheck-to-paycheck" and actually obtaining wealth and stability. Being a little bit frugal is no longer enough to save up a fucking house downpayment like a boomer could have done. Now? great, you have savings, just in time for all your savings to be wiped out in the next fucking disaster. lose your job? economy entered a recession? emergency medical cost? lol, say goodbye to everything you worked for. all your savings are gone now.
>at least you got 5 good years of life--
what life can i live working a shitty job 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, plus commute plus unpaid break plus everything else i have to do just to maintain myself, despising every moment and having zero respect?

it's real fucking easy to spout that kind of shit. the reality is you are FUCKED if you don't have stolen-out-of-china black money or a trust fund. everyone else in the country is just fucking fucked. back in the 70s, 80s, even 90s, the average person was doing okay. now? the average person is at the brink of disaster and can't keep their head above water.

this is more than "lol you poorfags buy too many avocado toasts." it is mathematically proveable that we are being more and more and more FUCKING FUCKED FINANCIALLY. JOBS PAY LESS AND LESS, EXPENSES ARE MORE AND MORE. BEING A FINANCIALLY SMART PERSON DOESN'T NEGATE THAT.

>>14708341
There's a gap between being able to try or negotiate with your boss and having wealth. Boomers had it easy because they didn't need to do much more, they were just handed what they needed. You aren't going to get fucking rich by being frugal while working a shitty job, but you can start doing something. You can buy yourself that room to maneuver.

>>14706150
You disingenuous motherfucker. Look at the damn article you linked. It shows that medical use peaked in both 1989 and 2002, but non medical use surged in 2002 and just barely began to dissipate around 2014, this rate still being higher than any point before 2002. Your article also only takes a sample size from high school seniors, which is a very limited range of people.

Another point is of fentanyl, which did not become the highest used substance for overdoses until 2017, 2 years after your article. Fentanyl has now consistently been the number 1 OD killer for 3 years now.

the formula is very simple and easy:
>be born with an IQ of 125 minimum
>google "top paying and highest demanded careers"
>pick one
>study the degree you need for that
>get job with 100k salary starting
>be born with hobbies that don't cost money
>be born without the urge to impress all the 100 IQ people on the freeway with an expensive shiny metal box
>be born without the urge to impress all the 100 IQ people on the sidewalk with expensive pants and shirts
>be born without the urge to pay more than you need for a place to sleep
If you follow this advice then congratulations you now own your first property by 25. Playing runescape in middle school was harder than this.

>>14708213
it's almost like nationwide trends account for what percentage of people can achieve the american dream. honestly if you grew out of the "just world" mindset you could make way more money.

>>14708213
Delusional. You wouldn't know poverty if it came up and bit you in the face. Anyone who can afford to buy frivolous goods and a new car is by definition not poor. Poor people own a $800 beater car, if any vehicle at all, own 2 pairs of shoes and are so hardened by poverty that musical entertainment pods, gaming systems and other tomfoolery ceases to be enjoyable and wouldn't even consider wasting money on them. Real poverty is not getting more than 1500 calories a day. Buying Brooks Brothers shirts and pulling themselves up by the bootstraps is nothing more than a cruel joke to a poor person. As for muh consumerism, it is a function of income more than anything else which sounds like some major projection based on personal dislike of your petite bourgeois peers you call "poor", which by the way can indeed afford to be that reckless and irresponsible because mommy and daddy and big family are always there to fall back on if everything really does go to shit.

>>14708523
Both dropped precipitously starting around 2010. If you have evidence to suggest that opioid use did in fact increase, then by all means, provide it. Until then, it's disingenuous of you to assume bad faith.

>number 1 OD killer for 3 years now
If we're talking about death strictly from respiratory depression, that is indeed true and shouldn't really be that surprising. However, the definition in both medical and coroner reporting for OD encompasses far more than that sadly, hence why the the bulk of such data is quite meaningless.

>>14709187
People who talk too much about IQ are never intelligent.

>>14699450
because the masses arent conscious of the value of labor so they sell it cheaply
when an educated worker is aware they cant do anything about it because they are surrounded by dipshits undercutting them and working for nothing

>>14709187
t. just world hypothesis midwit

>>14699450
Same reason combat was valued so highly before centralized state. Power > "I work hard, so I deserve".

>>14708199
succinct & to-the-point-pilled

>>14699485
>do economists have a term for the line where your wealth starts rapidly compounding just by the sheer size of it?
Capital accumulation.

>>14709217
>household income
This can simply mean that the median household has less people living in it, use per capita purchasing power.

>>14710052
How about real wages?

>>14710502
There's a lot of contradictory evidence against this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-15/wage-stagnation-was-mostly-a-myth

>>14710702
>bloomberg
>opinion
>mostly

Your labor aint shit in a globalized world

>>14710733
Without labor, the globalized world would collapse. Capital (as in moneys) is the spook here.

>>14710712
OK but there's actual sources and statistics in the article.

>>14710781
Ight bro get the world to stop working

>>14710502
>divergence starts in 1971
>pure coincidence, goyim

>>14710801
>OK but there's actual sources and statistics in the article.
A compelling case for the midwit.

>>14710892
1971 was also the year of the first microprocessor and the begin of personal computers

>>14700995
i now understand how lenin and his gang came to do the things that they did. there is nothing i want more now then to gang rape that horse faced looking whore with a bunch of other dirty peasants like myself, not out of attraction, but out of sheer duty, we would each pound that stupid cunt's orifices with such vigor that both blood, sweat, tears and vaginal discharge would flow by liters, then we would all beat her into a coma, strangle her, shoot her 5 times each before parading her lifeless body in the streets as a warning for all other high class prostitutes and pimps, that they would be next!

>>14710892
>muh monetary system
It's a spook in the first place, retard. Instead of addressing the root causes of everything fedtards screatch 'muh fed' for literally the cause of EVERYTHING. I dislike the Federal Reserve for personal reasons myself, and even if I still believed all of the above, I wouldn't have a problem with you spreading misinformation, if it was good misinformation. But, your case is so piss-poor, your boomer memes, the only possible reaction most people are going to have the total opposite reaction and think of you as a nut, and go away holding a more esteemed opinion of the institution. Imagine being too stupid to understand the dialectic.

>>14699450
>Why is labor so poorly valued and capital so highly?
The job market has gone through immense supply shocks without a chance to recover for the past 50 years. This is mostly due to introducing women into the workforce and nonstop mass immigration. Instead of employers having to compete with each other for good employees, employees have to compete with each other for shitty employers. In short, it's a seller's job market. Your average medieval serf worked less than your average modern wagie debt slave.

>>14710892
>>14710909
You are both missing the point,

Nixon took the US of the gold standard to lower inflation.

Nixon was also a giant union buster.

>>14699450
Read We Wanted Workers by George J. Borjas

Is modern labour more or less specialized?

>>14710984
Case in point

>>14710954
Lenin was against sex with prostitutes and rape.

>>14710982
This is not a very becoming picture of hugo jacomet.

>>14701075
Based

>>14710977
>not deliberately sharing schizo memes to keep midwits enslaved to the fiat system while smart and dumb people abandon jew money for gold and bitcoin

>>14711002
>1965 was when the Hart Celler act passed, flooding the country with foreigners and cheap labor
>1965 is when wages take a huge dive
Immigration is a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich

>>14710984
>abandoned gold standard
>to lower inflation
1oz of gold in 1971: $35
1oz of gold in 1999: $200
1oz of gold in 2020: $1600
it is not gold which is losing its purchasing power

>>14711120
inflation is constant in any sane society. Especially around 2-3%

Deflation is extremely bad.

>>14711173
>products and services becoming cheaper and cheaper is bad

>>14711208
From wikipedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Effects):

"While an increase in the purchasing power of one's money benefits some, it amplifies the sting of debt for others: after a period of deflation, the payments to service a debt represent a larger amount of purchasing power than they did when the debt was first incurred. Consequently, deflation can be thought of as an effective increase in a loan's interest rate. If, as during the Great Depression in the United States, deflation averages 10% per year, even an interest-free loan is unattractive as it must be repaid with money worth 10% more each year."

about deflationary spirals:

"A deflationary spiral is a situation where decreases in the price level lead to lower production, which in turn leads to lower wages and demand, which leads to further decreases in the price level.[33][34] Since reductions in general price level are called deflation, a deflationary spiral occurs when reductions in price lead to a vicious circle, where a problem exacerbates its own cause[dubious – discuss]. In science, this effect is also known as a positive feedback loop. Another economic example of this principle is a bank run."

Deflation is the worst thing that can happen to a country. And especially too debtors, workers and jobseekers.

An inflation target of 2% is perfect, and fiat currency makes achieving that target more feasible.

>>14711247
The cause of deflation is to correct malinvestment which occurred during a period of artificial credit expansion by the central bank. It may be temporarily painful, but is necessary to restore equilibrium, to correct the injustice of borrowing from the future to benefit the present.

>>14711275
>the injustice of borrowing from the future to benefit the present.

No to borrow from the future to create growth and employment in the present.

Debt is great.

>>14704407
Yes, there are right stocks. They are called the blue chip stocks. EMH sounds like some loser's coping that they can't make money on stocks so they make excuses why it's impossible to "beat the market". What does this even mean? You just need to beat inflation meaning you only need to make 5% yearly returns and that's very achievable

>>14711247
>>14711282
>citing wikipedia
>Debt is great
>Since reductions in general price level are called deflation, a deflationary spiral occurs when reductions in price lead to a vicious circle, where a problem exacerbates its own cause[dubious – discuss]
>[dubious - discuss]
and you expect me to take you seriously lmao

>>14711333
faggot

>>14711333
Wikipedia is indeed bad. Here's a better article explaining why deflation is bad: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/030915/why-deflation-bad-economy.asp

>>14711438
I refer you to this article by Federal Reserve economists contra your references which supports my view that deflation is benign.
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/sr/sr331.pdf

>>14711594
Most reputable economists disagree, and a quick look at history shows us that every deflation precedes a terrible recession.

>>14703884
Anything above 12k a year is taxable, at least in the states. I dont see how that guy owes fucking 4k though. Should be WAY less. You dont get fucking taxed 25% of your income when you make so little.

>>14711915
Whoops this was meant for >>14703818

>>14711820
>Most reputable economists disagree
Then the anon you are talking to is right. Economists are sophists.

>>14711820
The periods of Reconstruction and the Gilded Age, especially the latter, refute this as they were characterized by large growth in the midst of deflation.

story about my grandpa
>worked like a dog for 40 years (electrician)
>earned a pension from his company
>retired
>still worked part time
>now does nothing
he was getting three checks a month—social security, pension, and his part-time work
he would cover his living expenses with social security, and invest his pension and part-time work directly
at this point, he’s saved into the 7 figures and doesn’t ever touch it

>>14699450
Because of private property of the means of production.

>>14702083
>i'm convinced medical bills are propaganda. People don't typically require expensive surgeries of of nowhere, most of it is just fat ass diabetus and high blood pressure medication.
Not exactly. this shit does happen. I got really sick once for several days. Had to go to the ER. They said they werent sure thought it was just constipation and gave me medicine for it. Next day still sick as fuck. Go back to ER. Turns out I had hyperparathyroidism and a kidney stone had blocked off my kidney and it was infected and getting pretty close to failure. Ended up having to get a (minor) surgery to remove it and a nice 40k bill to go along with it. Was in my first few years of uni at the time so i didnt have insurance.

>inb4 my parents
My father was of the retarded mindset of "insurance isnt worth it because none of us have health issues and everyone is careful and minor shit can just be paid out of pocket when the need arises." This mindset quickly changed after this incident.

Anyways. This shit definitely can come out of nowhere.

>>14702083
>People don't typically require expensive surgeries of of nowhere,

I seriously hope you don't believe this and invest in health coverage. Most people will have some serious medical emergency in their lives.

>>14711956
19th century was different, America was essentially a tiger economy then. It was impossible to fuck up.

>>14711820
to be a "reputable economist" you have to shill for central banks, fiat currency (backed by thin air), and 2% inflation a year "because its good for the economy". the whole charade is fake and gay propaganda by and for midwits

>>14712205
>backed by thin air
Just you saying this proves to me that you are the real midwit.

Gold is speculative aswell and is essentially useless outside of jewelry.

>>14712220
Yet its supply is determined not by the whims of bankers but by objective factors

>>14712220
imagine being this much of a cuckold

>>14712236
>>14712260
The fact that it is not
>determined by the whims of bankers
Is what makes central bankers incapable of digging us out come recession.

>>14699450
Because money is magic won through soul and faith

>>14712006
sounds based

>>14712220
Gold is valuable because of its scarcity. It's also useful for making computers

>>14712006
>worked like a dog for 40 years
He wasted his prime so he could live a meager existence as a geriatric.

>>14711915
He's paying tax whether he wants to or not. They withdraw 20% from your salary, even at lower brackets, not to mention SS, Medicaid, and State Taxes. That is unless he is claiming to have like 15 kids, which he probably did, and thus probably owed the IRS big time.

>>14712364
Through the loss of soul and faith in Lucifer.

>>14699450
>>14699450
>>14699450
"I HATE MEXICANS", he thought. I've never been to this golf course before. "There could be MEXICANS anywhere." The cool air felt good against his spray-tanned face. "I HATE MEXICANS" he thought. Sounds of gorillas fighting reverberated the entire golf cart, making it vibrate even as the $9 McFlurry circulated through his powerful bigly veins and washed away the (merited) fear of minorities on the exclusive golf course. "With a wall, they can't go anywhere they want" he said to himself outloud.

>>14715274
>this cheeto is the president of the United States
embarrassing

>>14704110
If I'm born poor, is it unlucky? Oh wait I forgot about my parents obscene willpower, so before you blame my parents you'll have to blame my grandparents (and beware, they were some strong willed folks. hmm, I wonder where this trail of generational wealth will lead...)

What about if I'm born retarded? Is it luck yet? I'm being sincere

>>14699485
>do economists have a term for the line where your wealth starts rapidly compounding just by the sheer size of it
economy of scale?