/lit/ - Literature

>>14678763
"Yes."

>>14678763
Didn't read the book, and I'm basically a leftie, but this is true. You have no moral obligation to anyone, and morals are engineered by society to keep you subservient even when no one is looking.

>if I put it in a mocking tone I refute it!1!
Might is right, soiboy

>>14678798
Ok anon, i'm sure that you will practice your world view right?

>>14678798
All of you faggots who say shit like this are the greatest pussies irl

>>14678825
Everyone practices it, willingly or not

>>14678763
Thinking of reading this book if it's not just edgy nonsense. I recently realized that might defines right regardless. How can morality mean anything at all without something to enforce it? And if right is dependent on an enforcer, then morality is arbitrary because a greater enforcer could always enforce something else (setting aside theology for the moment).

>>14678840
yes anon everybody goes around killing, raping and stealing.

>>14678902
Worrying about things being edgy is a sign of insecurity and a projection of edginess inside, read it
The book is "love it or hate it , it spits straight facts"

>>14678920
>killing
You kill bacteria, insects, and other creatures every day
>raping
Many people don't do it only due to fear of getting caught
>stealing
Everything you have has been taken from.someone else who suffered for its loss

Uselessness is power

>>14678763
You clearly didn’t read the book

>>14678902
In moral maturity you know that goodness is good and you want to be good. But immature morality does involve force, which includes things like biological and social coercion and dominance. might can also include conforming to the whims of your tribe. Might can be many things and they are not all bad.

>>14678945
how is he wrong faggot?

>>14678952
>moral maturity
define it

>>14678927
I bet you think Bronze Age Mindset is refreshing and insightful

>>14678952
I do want to be good as a matter of faith, but I'm not just restating Euthuphros dilemma. On what grounds, besides those of faith, is there to support what you call moral maturity? Morality without enforcement might as well not exist. Even if an objective normative system of morals was somehow discovered, not a thing would change without a likewise discovery of God or karma or whatever.

>>14678940
>because there is suffering in life, accentuate and become an agent of it
Okay retard. You really think mans desires are completely limited to materialistic egoistic gain?

>>14678994
You would win your bet, anon

>>14679001
No, but mans desire are only expressed through the might they possess whether internally or externally

>compassion

>>14679013
Compassion is strategic egoism, the only alternative to this concept is buddhism

Values and rights are brainwashing though. Brainwashing isnt inherently bad

>>14679020
>Compassion is strategic egoism
BAHAAHAHAAHAAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA what a fucking bright bastard you are anon, BAHAAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA.

Yeah that mother that dies for her child is strategic egoism, that raw implicit emotion is some complex mental gymnastic of human psychology universally experienced, even by animals.

Accept it retard, compassion is as self evident an emotion as anger or sadness. A form of love, and surely you would not say all love is simply for the ego?

>>14679025
Would you be ok with someone manipulating you into doing stuff that isn't benefitial to you?

>>14679036
>Yeah that mother that dies for her child is strategic egoism
>NOOOOOOO I NEED TO PRESERVE THE 50% REPLICA OF MY GENES
>THIS PROVES THAT I'M NOT SELF INTERESTED

>>14678763
Stop peddling meme books with meme titles and read Pascal instead.

>>14679036
>Yeah that mother that dies for her child is strategic egoism, that raw implicit emotion is some complex mental gymnastic of human psychology universally experienced, even by animals.
Strategic egoism
Individuals are an illusion, love is a strategy to win the prisoner's game of life played by an almost infinite number of entities
That doesn't mean that the sentiment is "fake", this is your own projection
For example I would literally die for the people I love without even thinking about it, it's still strategic egoism.
If there weren't "others", enemies,.adversity, a need to gain power over the rest, love wouldn't exist.

>>14679049
People also do it for their adopted children, often even for children that aren't theirs at all.

>b-but that just means they do it to feel good about themselves before dying
Sure, if you accept a definition of egoism so wide it stops having any effective meaning.

>>14678763
The truly cringe part is that leading a life akin to that is massively stressful, requires significant effort and a principle of social organization, has been BTFO time and time again by relatively more egalitarian strains.Thus making such a worldview counterproductive in a Darwinian perspective.

>>14678763
this shit sucks so badly but who remembers when Skyrim put a song in the game about a historical figure named Ragnar the Red. What are the odds it was deliberate?

>>14678973
I thought i already defined it. It is probably many things. In general i suppose it is morality without evil or lower elements of reality.

>>14679056
Then it isn't strategic egoism anymore you complete fucking idiot. What you mean we evolved to these current characteristic through "strategic egoism"? That's a completely different thing as it doesn't define the intent of current actions and thoughts themselves.

I shouldn't have to think for you.

>>14678902
What does it mean for morality to mean something?

>>14679088
>kills you and your son
>"well, it wasn't good"

>>14679077
>life akin to that is massively stressful, requires significant effort and a principle of social organization, has been BTFO time and time again by relatively more egalitarian strains
This only proves the point of the book more: less powerful entities submit their power to more powerful entities as a strategy, because they couldn't survive otherwise.
If they were mightier, they wouldn't have to abide to all the ruled they do
God, the most powerful entity of all, doesn't have to abide to any rules
The book is written with the preconception that the reader is someone akin to the writer (corageous, physically and mentally)
The writer was Jack London btw, and yes I know he was a socialist, doesn't contradict anythint written in MIR
>>14679093
Sophistry since "the ego" doesn't actually exist

>>14679106
>The writer was Jack London btw

what?

>>14678798
Unfortunately, mockery is might among the apes.

>>14678902
>truth is subjective because someone can talk louder than everyone else.

>>14679117
Yes

>>14679106
>Sophistry since "the ego" doesn't actually exist
Yes it fucking does you moron, besides that's just your opinion bro but mine was stated fucks.

Your dodging of the point is sophistry.

>>14679113
Ragnar Redbeard is Jack London

>>14678994
Well some atheist have communion with God and so they have a kind of faith that might not be defined as faith by the larping hypocritical persons idea of faith. Other than that i dunno because my understanding of moral maturity is ontological.

>>14679119
No I can't talk much because I have to clean the bathroom since my roomate would be sad if I didn't

>>14679120
oh really?

>>14679123
But truth is determined by might, and you are weak.

>>14679132
Strength is relative

>>14679134
so, truth is relative.

>>14679136
Yes, it's relative to strength

>>14679106
You mean Arthur Desmond?
Also, imagine taking notes on how to be a stronk male from pic related lmao

>>14679144
No I mean Jack London

>>14679120
hahahahaha is so funny.

Nietzche, Stirner, Hemmingway, London, Mishima , they have always these lonely and/or sad ends.

>>14679146
you are wrong faggot

>>14679139
so truth doesn't exist.

>>14679149
>because it's better to live a long and miserable life as a wagecuck

>>14679149
Even Jesus Christ and Juliue Caesar had one. The more one takes risks, physically and mentally the more the probability of a "bad ending" rises, even children know this through video game difficulty settings
And this is without even talking about how loneliness and sadness are relative concepts
>>14679152
Irl you wouldn't dare to talk to me like that
>>14679157
Sophistry

>>14679166
>Irl you wouldn't dare to talk to me like that
post body and face with timestamp you subhuman trash

>>14679174
You first

>>14679100
So you must think that i don't exist forever. Also, i want to die so that i don't have to co-exist with blind and childish sleepers and am sick of the games of this universe. I would consider it good if i died. You should have tortured and raped me if you wanted to be evil. Have fun with existing with inferior spirits. Was your own actions that picked hell.

>>14679178
>t.

>>14678763
the problem with these meme ideologies is that they always assume you have to be an asshole forever

what if i schemed and murdered my way to the top... because i want to the world to be a better place, and literally don't care about anybody else's opinion on what's best for society but mine? that is a form of egoism

>>14678763
>fittest
>as in "fit"
>not as in "fitting"

The sign of a total brainlet. Are there really people who don't know that?

>>14679158
>>14679166
Nietzche grew old , out of his mind, depending on his mother and syster whom he hated.

Stirner, killed by a bug lmao.

Hemingway lonely, shoting at himself.

London, cancer, maybe he killed himself.

Mishima. killing himself as a drama queen.

On the other hand Jesus showed himself to his bros after few days.

>>14679190
As in being capable of adapting to the environment? What's your point?

>>14679201
>On the other hand Jesus
Jesus created as small cult of barely 12 people and one of those fucked over him and sold him for a couple of coins. He died like the faggot that he was.
"A pallid falliour on a stick"

>>14679203
>As in being capable of adapting to the environment?

Yes exactly.

My point is, that "Might is right" implies that "Survival of the fittest" has something to do with bodily strength or force.

But it doesn't.
Was the author just willfully ignorant of that or was he an actual idiot? (evolutionary speaking he'd be an idiot in both cases)

>>14679214
You never read his book

>>14678795
Lol thats so retarded, the point is not to keep us subservient when no one is looking is to allow.us to function without having to look over out backs 24/7

>>14679214
Have you ever tried to read a book beyond the cover?
>bodily strength or force
No, the ability to manipulate others to do as you want without the direct use of strenght is also a force.

>>14679223
Allowing the ones who are wise enough to know to look up beyond their backs to take what you have more easily

>>14679218
Yeah and I never will, cause when the title is already bullshit why should i bother with the rest?

Should have just stuck with Might is Right.
This way he revealed his low IQ right away.

Good though. Saves time.

>>14679223
Only the weak think this way

>>14679230
Lmao ok retard

>>14679227
that still isn't what survival of the fittest means.

>>14679230
The only one who is revealing his low Iq here is (you)

>>14679237
>asshurt cause someone calls out his precious favorite author as the dumbass he is

kek
no problem anon

>>14679250
Sorry for realizing something that should be obvious.
I know it's shocking to you, but these ideas aren't exactly new and neither were they in 1890.

>>14679268
Tell me 1 idea that is new

>>14679240
The fittest individual is also the healthier and stronger in a given species. You are just getting a bit confused by the concept of ecological niches.

>>14678825
Of course.

>>14678952
>goodness is good
Profound

>>14678763
This book is the dumb man's Nietzsche.

>>14679362
It takes being good to know what goodness is. God knows God.

>>14679117
Not quite. Truth is enforced by something. No matter how much you believe or have been lead to believe that you can walk on water, the moment you step into the sea you will find that you were wrong. Morality, to have any meaning, to have any reason to be considered significant in any way, would likewise need some enforcement, some system of judgement which has an impact as it's result.

>>14678763
>Might is right
This is not a moral statement, but one of objective reality.

It's crazy how humans consider themselves free thinkers and intelligent yet they follow whatever system is in place to the fucking letter as if the system itself is the law of god

>>14678795
>morals are engineered by society to keep you subservient even when no one is looking
modern society seems to take it that morality is more or less subjective so I don't see how you're right. Morals are a pure creation of human rationality and aren't genuine morals if you wouldn't follow them without the judgement of society.

>>14678763
That's true though, but the thing is, only peabrained retards ape out like that when they discover said truth. You can't achieve very much power by behaving that way. That's what certain tribes from many millennia ago discovered, which is why we have civilization today.

>>14679120
>Ragnar Redbeard is Jack London
I will now read your book.

>>14678775
>>14678795
>>14678902
>>14680611
>>14681111
>>14681004
Are people really this fuckin stupid? Did none of you begin with the Greeks and Plato? Plato-through-Socrates retroactively refuted this trash and Neechee and all of shitty nihilism/materialism/atheism 2000 years ago. The most basic bitch dialogue: The Republic, read it. Thrasymachus conveys this sentiment and relativism and gets pinned down and RAPED with the horse cock of REASON.
>everyone pursues the Good
>the Good is a metaphysical, objective Form which can be grasped at via noetic Reason and eventually, if virtuous, through henosis
>retard tyrants who have fucked up lives confuse the Good for superficial pleasures of the body, which are fleeting and empty
>they are ignorant of the eternal forms and so live a life closest to the lowest, their bestial passions and appetites, while scorning the agency that connects them to God (reason)
>morality is a system trying to reflect the perfect realm of the intelligible forms, basically moulding society along the objective individual ideals that each facet of material plenitude derives form (being) from
>tyrannical characters without control over their bodies project their insecure, self-destructive injustice onto well meaning philosophers/theists (no separation, kys nihilists) and claim any authority is as base as they are
>rule and power isn't some fun joyride, it's a colossal undertaking that requires a philosopher-king to harness, reluctantly, but attracts the most spiritually diseased individuals also, as society must reflect a well-ordered individual
>ruler: king, aristocracy, the mind (reason)
>the mass: appetites, passions
>a person beholden to their bodily passions/appetites is no free man, but the most oppressed slave, with ever growing tastes that force him further and further away from God

You can freak out all you want about MUH SLAVE MORALITY, but Plato was no slave, nor a dweeb. Chad wrestler whose nickname literally means 'wide shoulders'. Chad aristocrat also. NEECHEE on the other hand was a pathetic wretch who died of syphilis and cucked to hell and back. A worthless, unathletic worm

>>14682236
yawn. Got anything more compelling?

>>14678763
Yep I'm thinking based

>>14682236
>muh arguments, muh reason, muh logic
Sorry philospher dork, but your gay metpahysics doesn't compare to my fist making contact with your face

>>14682236
>Thrasymachus conveys this sentiment and relativism and gets pinned down and RAPED with the horse cock of REASON.

When I was reading through Plato in undergrad, and happened to get to Thrasymachus, it opened my eyes a bit to see his attitude/arguments, and how similar they are to the ones made today.

This is why one starts with the Greeks.

>>14682314
>>14682856
Plato when eaten tastes kinda good

>there are no morals lol might makes right
>wtf you can't just hang me for acting like an animal, w-wait