/lit/ - Literature

Curly Howard

Marx? Or maybe some lower tier Marxist or left Hegelian?

Spengler

Adorno

Carroll Quigley

>>14669518
quigley is the empirical Spengler

>>14669492
Spengler is a prussian socialist, so Spenger.

>>14669858
According to some recent critics such as Ishay Landa, "Prussian socialism" has some decidedly capitalistic traits.[19] Spengler declares himself resolutely opposed to labor strikes (Spengler describes them as "the unsocialistic earmark of Marxism"), trade unions ("wage-Bolshevism" in Spengler's terms), progressive taxation or any imposition of taxes on the rich ("dry Bolshevism"), any shortening of the working day (he argues that workers should work even on Sundays), as well as any form of government insurance for sickness, old age, accidents, or unemployment.[19]

At the same time as he rejects any social democratic provisions, Spengler celebrates private property, competition, imperialism, capital accumulation, and "wealth, collected in few hands and among the ruling classes."[19] Landa describes Spengler's "Prussian Socialism" as "working a whole lot, for the absolute minimum, but – and this is a vital aspect – being happy about it."[19]

>>14669901
>>14669858
Spengler defines the term 'socialism' as a totalitarian desire, a desire to exert ones will on the entire population, all aspects of society. This is obviously not what anyone else means by it.

>>14669901
I'm glad you can copy and paste Wikipedia quotations. But Spengler certainly rails against the atomizing, corrosive force of finance, greed and plutocracy. In fact he singles out England and contrasts it with Prussia's ability to plan and mobilize itself at the service of state and community. So while he is certainly not a Marxist socialist, he is definitely not a free-market capitalist/libertarian of any stripe.

>>14669901
>Ishay Landa, Ph. D. (2004) in History, Ben-Gurion University, Israel, is Visiting Senior Lecturer of History at the Israeli Open University.
Surprising that a man of this chop seeks to destroy Prussianism

marx.

>>14669492
Jacques Camatte

>>14669508
>>14669517
>>14670010
Marxist progressive history is the polar opposite of cyclical Spenglerism.

>>14669492
Non-existent because leftoids are too reductive to handle Spengler, with the possible exception of Adorno

>>14669492
wait Spengler came across as leftist to me.
does that mean i'm a leftist?

>>14670708
>talk to leftist friends about Adorno and his view of the enlightenment leading to totalitarian calculuses that cause things such as the holocaust
>”anon why are we bringing up the Holocaust? we don’t need 4chan’s view of the Holocaust.”
>”how is the enlightenment bad when science does good things for us?”
They’re beyond saving, most of them

>>14670712
read more conservative revolution thinkers from the weimar period, it wasn't what you think it is

>>14669492
>denounces euro-centrism and nationalism
>right winger
Yeah no

Bump

Spengler

>>14669492
Spengler

>>14670944
they don't sound like "leftist friends" anon -- those types are normally hyper-prentious about deleuze and adorno even if they haven't read them and take pleasure in spurning 18th century bourgeois delusions like progress. they sound more like your typical uneducated liberals-by-default who watch colbert and john oliver.

>>14669950
More of a proto-fascist which is distinct from right socialism.

>>14669492
Toynbee

>>14671784
>they sound more like your typical uneducated liberals-by-default who watch colbert and john oliver.
They are and do

>>14669901
He is not talking about economic socialism. The idea that economics can be separated from the state is a Marxist idea. In Spengler and the idealist style of thinking the economic mode follows the structure of the state. Democracy creates capitalism, as we see capitalism emerging in parliamentarian Britain, the forerunner of democracy. Authoritarianism creates Prussianism, here meaning a Roman or Qin Legalism style fighting spirit.

"I have now reached the point when the definitive word must be said about "Prussianism" and "Socialism." In 1919 I compared the two, the one a living idea and the other the catchword of a whole century, and was - I am tempted to add: "of course" - not understood. People no longer know how to read - this great art, still known in the age of Goethe, has died out. They skim printed pages "mass-wise," and, as a result, the reader demoralizes the book. I showed that in the working class, as Bebel welded it into a powerful army, in its discipline and loyal subordination, its good comradeship, its readiness for the ultimate sacrifice, there still lived that Old-Prussian "style" which first proved itself in the battles of the Seven Years' War. What mattered then was the individual Socialist as a character, his "moral imperative," not the Socialism hammered into his head, which was a wholly un-Prussian mixture of foolish ideology and vulgar greed."

"But the shallow-minded cannot get away from the Marxian thought of last century. Throughout the world they think of Socialism not as a moral attitude of life but as economic Socialism, Labour Socialism, as a mass ideology with material aims. Program Socialism of every sort is thinking from below, building on base instincts, canonizing the herd-feeling which everywhere today lurks behind the slogan of "overcoming individualism"; it is the contrary of Prussian feeling, which has livingly experienced through exemplary leaders the necessity of disciplined devotion and possesses accordingly the inward freedom that comes with the fulfilment of duty, the ordering of oneself, command of oneself, for the sake of a great aim."

>>14669921
But that sounds just like communism

>>14669515
This.

In what universe is Spengler not left wing

Spengler was a literal socialist. This whole modern view of "being a traditionalist means you are right wing" is retarded

>>14669508
Marx was right wing

>>14670679
>implying marx is not also cyclical but disguised

read beyond the manifesto, with a grain of salt.

>>14671885
I think it's the other way around. Right-socialism descends from the (mostly germanic) tradition that stresses the primacy of politics over economy as >>14674246 mentions. Right socialism is inheres in the totalizing communal apparatus of the Prussian regime and is picked up by similar strains of conservative revolutionary thought in Germany that emphasize similar notions of total mobilization and "absolute planning". Junger's worker-state, national bolshevism, Sombart's "socialist nationalism" and ultimately the more volkish ideals of Bruck's third-reich and national socialism fall under this category. Spengler definitely finds himself somewhere in here.

Proto-fascism, if such a nebulous term can be defined, might find its clearest expression in the national syndicalism of the Portugese blue-shirts and Italian national syndicalists who defected from left-wing revolutionary politics. They are the intellectual heirs of heterodox Marxist thought and its infusion with the populist and producerist ideals of Sorelian syndicalism. They were always less inclined to subordinate economics to politics, thanks to their shared heritage with Marxism. Spengler does not give much consideration to this strain of thought, nor does he engage with these figures.

>>14674269
Prussian socialism is the opposite of 'left wing'.
Spengler hated marxists.

>>14674264
Except it promotes hierarchy and is anti-egalitarian

>>14675790
Marxism is not the definition of left-wing
>>14675801
Marx's communism is in no way egalitarian