/lit/ - Literature

>>14617572
Dilate, sweaty.

>>14617572
Nah. Marxists suck, but to call them the "biggest" problem in America is a misnomer. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is both far left and far right have unenlightened extremists who don't take the time to read and understand their own doctrine before jumping in with both feet.

>>14617572
non-marxists are the biggest threat facing the world

>>14617572
Name one, Jordan.

>>14617572
Modern day American is a problem in and of itself.

>>14617572
I think Hans Hermann Hoppe answers your question

>>14617572
If those few non-violent people were "the biggest problem with modern day America", modern day America would be a great place to live.

>>14617626
>far left extremists
Nice meme

What group is 9% of the population yet responsible for 59% of all extremist murders?

>>14618147
Black men?

>>14617626
>muh both sides

>>14618147
>Violence makes something a greater threat to society
Two people discussing Kropotkin does more harm to society than all the terror attacks ever committed.

>>14618147
what group is 2% of the population but responsible for 100% of the nation's ills?

>>14618112
The shadowy individuals taking control of all institutions in preparation for social collapse, and using their authority to transform then youth into a revolutionary vanguard are are more extreme than anything conceivable on the right. That you can only equate extremism with violence shows that you are nothing more than a brainwashed life-fetishist more despicable than any other living creature.

>>14618170
Nope, try again

>>14618261
>life-fetishist
Conservative slang for caring about people?

>>14618225
Imagine unironically buying le happy merchant memes

>>14618112
There are plenty of leftist extremists, they just lack the competence to rack up high body counts. Look at the weather underground. They were a bunch of rich jewish kids with protection and financial support from the multi million dollar national lawyer's guild and all they ever did was vandalize a few empty buildings. People will trya and use that a proof that weren't violent radicals because "They never tried to kill anyone." which is a flat out lie. When they blew themselves up at their upperclass Greenwich townhouse they were making NAIL BOMBS so they could bomb a non commissioned officers ball at fort Dix. You don;t put nails in a bomb meant to just damage a building, you do it to make it more deadly towards humans. The only thing preventing them from killing a lot of people was their gross incompetence. They had the money and protection to build an effective terror group, but they were just retards. They were a bunch of effete upper class jewish liberal arts students playing with dynamite and they blew themselves up. Compare them to Timothy McVeigh. A working class white guy with a military background and no support from massive legal activist groups or local politicians and he killed hundreds of people and scared the shit out of the federal government. He didn't have the resources of the talmudic leftist militants, but he was competent.

>>14618285
I don't give a fuck about your shit anecdotes give me evidence that left wing extremism is a thing or stay silent

>>14618284
Socialism is a retard's antisemitism. No other group has the same racial solidarity as jews.Rich jews always use their wealth to further Talmudic interest. You don't see any rich Anglos using their money to fund border walls, decrease immigration, counter signal transgenderism, miscegenation, promote gun rights, etc...

>>14617572
there are no marxists in america just marcuseans fetishists

>>14618300
I just gave you an example of a domestic leftist militant group. Some of the surviving members are influential political and academic figures. If the weather underground was bunch of white nationalists they would've been killed by the FBI or Mossad.

>>14618303
>No other group has the same racial solidarity as jews.
What about white nationalists?

>>14618314
One incident doesn't mean dick in a country of millions of people, in order to prove that left wing extremism is a thing you need actual data

>>14618315
bro they fucking WISH whites had Jewish asabiyyah. and all you have to do is bring up the Irish and they'll derail for hours

>>14618315
>14618315
Sadly less than 1% of white people. A lot white people have the opposite of racial solidarity and actively vote against their own racial interest. Jews on the other hand are almost entirely unified on the cause of Jewish empowerment. Jewish CEOs will donate to far left jewish groups that bring in refugees and immigrants despite the fact that the Jews they support are anti capitalist. They do this because they need golems to protect them against whites.

>>14618221
Fuck you I just want to live on a commune

>>14618350
god they're such freaks

>>14618320
As I said you can't do that because they're too incompetent to rack up high kill counts. Like that Bernie bro that tried to kill those republican reps and got shot before he could kill anyone.

>>14617572
>>14617626
Yikes. Pseud central

>>14618350
>Sadly less than 1% of white people
They are like 9% in America, rejoice my friend
>Jewish CEOs will donate to far left jewish groups that bring in refugees and immigrants despite the fact that the Jews they support are anti capitalist.
What do you mean, I don't speak /pol/tard

>>14618363
Then give me data about attempted far left extremist attacks or something, the two incidents you memorized from greentexts don't prove shit

>>14618276
Ah, it's the old, "part of my extremist ideology is actually just coon sense morality which exists outside of ideology trick." Your masters have trained you well. Next are you going to tell me that it's nothing more than a matter of "empathy and human decency." Two concepts completely divorced from all ideology.
But let's take a look at what you said.
>caring about people?
In a sense you are right. I certainly care more for my decent compatriots more than you do any being in existence, but I do think the indiscriminate caring about a conception of people which is conflated with "humanity" is precisely the life fetishism that makes the left so vile. The capacity to believe that life has value independent of social structures and deserving of protection regardless of whether it supports those structures or not is the ultimate expression of narcissism.
>>14618363
The left has low kill-counts for several reasons. The first is that the left has the organizational infrastructure and social legitimacy to achieve all of their short term goals without the use of lethal force. This helps them prevent murders because it is understood among the mass that such actions would be counterproductive, and individuals likely to kill are reported before harm is done. The second is that leftists are better socialized than the right. To be a serious leftist one must partake is activities that blend political and social life. Alienated individuals at risk of for lone-wolf attacks are often excluded from the left to begin with. The third is that leftist ideology entails the sanctity of life in a way that the right's doesn't. This means leftists will generally only bring themselves to kill if they believe the sanctity of life itself is at risk. You're going to bring up abortion, but leftists mostly believe that the fetus/embryo isn't life or that forced child birth harms the sanctity of the mother's life, and they are perfectly consistent in believing so.
The problem is that the trained seal you're talking to can only conceive of extremism in terms of body counts. Prominent figures openly endorse ideologies that advocate for the destruction of the state and society, yet to him this is not extreme. Societies can't orgasm or have banal conversations about Derrida, and they sometimes get in the way of that, so yearning for its death is a moderate position.

>>14618494
I'm not reading this shit fuck you

>>14618494
>This means leftists will generally only bring themselves to kill if they believe the sanctity of life itself is at risk
someone is mighty unfamiliar with the 20th century I see

>>14618517
It is literally impossible for the holder of any ideology to be a greater threat to society than you. Any healthy society would see all vertebrae, and all invertebrate that aren't pests as more valuable than you, but you have taken the institutions, and have rendered society itself suicidal. You want to take something much more beautiful than any human life could possibly be so your ugliness can be the center of the universe. I'd tell you to look hard at yourself in the mirror in the off-chance that you may see it, but you'll more likely than not start smooching your reflection.
>>14618533
In a revolutionary or post-revolutionary context, communists see reactionaries as direct threats to the sanctity and value of life which their revolution is built upon and can justify killings in its name. You will not find a fatal contradiction among the discourses of the left, the greatest minds harvested by them to ensure all of the kinks are ironed out.

>>14618568
The Left's conception of equality is a glaring, monumental contradiction to the point they have to just shut down any discussion about it completely

>>14618568
>It is literally impossible for the holder of any ideology to be a greater threat to society than you. Any healthy society would see all vertebrae, and all invertebrate that aren't pests as more valuable than you, but you have taken the institutions, and have rendered society itself suicidal. You want to take something much more beautiful than any human life could possibly be so your ugliness can be the center of the universe. I'd tell you to look hard at yourself in the mirror in the off-chance that you may see it, but you'll more likely than not start smooching your reflection.
Imagine breaking down an ad hominem to a whole paragraph, I can tell you are a pretentious little shit IRL just by reading your posts

>>14618606
It's not a contradiction, it's just a point so fundamental that disagreement with it
>>14618614
Insulting someone (even in an admittedly long-winded way) isn't an ad hominem. I merely called you vile and explained why you are. Each and every day I am surrounded by the fruits of leftism. By conversing with any individual I am affirming their values. This is just my way of venting. It the easiest to access of all those rare social spaces that aren't completely colonized by the left. It is imperfect because conversational language as we know it, which is in this case the foundational space, is also a space colonized by them too, so work must be done in any conversations to weed out the leftist assumptions that underlie all conversation. It's a real pain in the ass, but it's the only way I can maintain any semblance of hope in this cruel world.
I'm also a very folksy, anti-intellectual person with zero to know pretensions.

>>14618695
*It's not a contradiction, it's just a point so fundamental that disagreement with it can only be managed by force. All ideologies have axioms of that nature at their core.

Butterfly I'm sure we are lolling at all the ridiculously infuriated replies.

Listen, just be patient a little and keep at it. If you tell me you're butterfly, then I will set aside some time for you IF YOU WANT (only if you want):3

>>14618695
>Insulting someone (even in an admittedly long-winded way) isn't an ad hominem.
ad hominem is just Latin for insult you pretentious sperglord
>I'm also a very folksy, anti-intellectual person with zero to know pretensions.
Aren't you one of the Evolafags, your prose looks familiar

>>14618740
>ad hominem is just Latin for insult you pretentious sperglord
An "ad hominem" is a specific logical fallacy. Insulting someone isn't a ad hominem, but saying they're wrong because of the insult is. It's the difference between:
You're dumb
and
You're dumb, therefore, you're wrong.
> Aren't you one of the Evolafags, your prose looks familiar
I don't buy into new age garbage. Evola, Jung, Jorjani, those twitter guys or whatever guru the far-right wants to trot around are all wastes of time.

>>14618778
>An "ad hominem" is a specific logical fallacy. Insulting someone isn't a ad hominem, but saying they're wrong because of the insult is. It's the difference between: You're dumb
The ad hominem fallacy is the formal fallacy you autismo, ad hominem by itself just means insult.

>>14618844
It doesn't. Sounds to me like someone thought using a Latin term would make the sound smarter. That's awfully pretentious of you, Mr. pot.

>>14618875
I hope you enjoy making me google shit for your education
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
"an ad hominem argument"
2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made made "an ad hominem personal attack on his rival"

>>14618956
If we're going to be appealing to authority, I'll counter with this. But I'm willing to accept that a term's meaning is how it is used, so I won't disagree, but I will say this: if pretentiousness is your concern, you should go with English (or whatever other language you may be conversing in) instead of Latin.

>>14619000
A fierce counter attack by appeal to google translate, you are a worthy opponent comrade. Here is a good explanation so you can learn something new today:
https://effectiviology.com/ad-hominem-fallacy/
>However, ad hominem arguments—or arguments against the source of an opposing argument—are not always fallacious, since they are not inherently flawed from a logical perspective. This is because arguments against the source of an opposing argument can be reasonable, as long as they’re relevant to the discussion and involve no faulty reasoning or application.

>>14617572
Jews

>>14619088
I can't even make out what they're attempting to say. Why would you criticize the person giving the argument and not just the argument itself? The person could be a liar or crazy but if their argument is that the sky is blue they're still right.

>>14619088
>A fierce counter attack by appeal to google translate,
>Doesn’t even bother checking looking at the image long enough to see that It was pulled from a source.
Sounds like your ad hominem is being applied in a faulty manner.
>>14619123
He’s trying to say that being critical of sources isn’t necessarily fallacious, but any good criticism will do so on the basis of the sources arguments, so the point seems a little silly to make.

>>14619123
>I can't even make out what they're attempting to say. Why would you criticize the person giving the argument and not just the argument itself?
The point is that an ad hominem attack is not necessarily an attempt to refute an argument (that would be the fallacious use). For example the manifesto you wrote against me earlier was an ad hominem attack, but it wasn't a fallacious argument because you didn't use it to refute something I said.

>>14619139
I am just having fun with it, his pic didn't even contradict what I said

>>14619266
I wasn't really trying to counter it, and ultimately conceded the point, silly.
>But I'm willing to accept that a term's meaning is how it is used, so I won't disagree

>>14619273
Oh yeah I forgot you said that retarded shit too, a term's meaning is how people use it therefore you can't use a term wrongly trololo. Now I can roast you for another 10 posts for that.

>>14617572
Marxism isn't really a thing in the US and never has been. To the extent that people claim espouse Marxism, it's purely a moral sentiment about racism, i.e. Marxism is when you restructure society to care more for blacks, the more you care for blacks the more Marxist it is. American radicalism has always been centered on the black as revolutionary subject.

>>14618285
>yfw the child of two Weather Underground terrorists is the DA in San Francisco now whose only accomplishment is working for Hugo Chavez
based California

>>14619898
you're absolutely retarded and know nothing

affirmative action is marxism and allocates trillions of dollars per year to nonwhites solely because they are nonwhite and that's what the jews want

>>14619945
It's not Marxism, you literally just agreed with me while claiming not to.

>>14619956
yep, it's a jew.
damn they're retarded

>>14620005
Marxism is against private property, American leftism is against white people. As I already said, to the extent that American leftists claim to be Marxists, they replace "private property" with "whiteness".

>>14617626
This post starts off leaning toward cringe but ends up being based. I agree that too many people end up becoming leftists without reading Marx or even some nonce like Kropotkin, while those becoming Fascists don’t even read Yockey. People need to read more basically.

>>14620047
>read more
Given that the Western intellectual tradition has given rise to so many shitty forms of social organization over the past century+, maybe not reading is actually based.

>>14617572
Considering the damage they do to human life...

>>14620021
After the fall of the predominately Russian Soviet Union many Marxist thinkers decided that white European culture was incompatible with marxism due to the failure of Russians and Other white nation to maintain communism. Not to hence why modern marxists advocate for mass migration from the global south and are willing to use giant neoliberal corporations to achieve this.

>>14620231
Yes

>>14620021
Both are against Europeans and private property

>>14617572
gobbunism is an IQ test if you fail to see it for it truly is yes you should be killed for being stupid

http://esotericawakening.com/the-occult-history-of-communism

>>14620231

>>14617626
the most midwit opinion of all time

>>14620231
Kek this is true, marxists just want the boot they lick to be a guy who wears tweed

>>14620291
>Russia
>white nation

why are americans still obsessed with Marxism?
its not the 1980's anymore

>>14620231
What is it with right wingers and unfalsifiable armchair claims? Would honestly rather read Marx talk about the cost of linen or some shit than read this fee-fee bitch shit.

>>14622171
Americans are conditioned to believe any attempts to rectify the dystopian wealth inequality they find themselves living under is nothing less than a prelude to a second October Revolution

>>14617572
No
But fuck tankies though

>>14622353
>Rats out other commies to intelligence services
Nothing personell, comrades.

>>14620231
>Doing what's in my and all of the working class's interest to have a good living rather than living under cronies in a dystopian inequality state
>That quote
There is no one that does the more mental gymnastics to why they keep a big dick in their ass than the right wing.

>>14622405
If the USSR and commie China hadn't happened you might(might) have a point, but nobody trusts you guys even slightly to let the workers 'have a good living' anymore

>>14622421

>>14622421
Also China and the USSR raised their backwater countries into being superpower states. China today is following Marxism to a tee and they are doing fine. They raised millions of people out of poverty.

>>14622433
>>14622446
Nazi Germany was also super good for industry, the point is the millions of people they killed. Also just lol at contemporary China being in any way marxist

>>14622446
>China
>Doing fine
Those unkempt Asiatics have started yet another plague

>>14622455
Nazi Germany was never a superpower.
And China is most definitely Marxist. Just shows you know nothing about Marx. For context Marxism=/=anti-capitalism. They are following Marxism to a tee and are doing well. They have been going at 5-6% for 30 years now and they plan for the long term. Everything has been closely following their projections. All the while any developed country would be lucky to get 2% today.

>>14622483
And they are dealing with it maturely. Don't really see a problem here other than the sinophobia and indulgence in ideology from panicking westerners right now.

>>14622421
Reminder

>>14622484
China is literally a Fascist country. They have shit tons of private industry and they put ethnic minorities in concentration camps

>>14617572
They're virtually nonexistent, and entirely unrepresented politically. Even when America was filled with socialist politicians (sewer socialists) they were distinctly non-Marxist.

>>14622484
They did only succeed after private enterprise was accepted. And that is against marxism because hurrdurr means of production being private.

>>14622497
This is misleading. The famine, cultural revolution, and their treatment of Uyghurs taken together are worse than all of America's crimes combined.

>>14622511
Marxists can just claim that at some unspecified time in the future their society will totally become communist and the state will wither away. This allows them to act exactly like Fascists but claim it's ultimately for the workers.

>>14622512
China has had famines all throughout history and that particular one wasn't even the worst. Has nothing to do with communism.

>>14622493
>maturely
Millions have wandered out of the quarantine zone. Chinese incompetence knows no bounds. This all started from either incompetent lab workers or because the Chinese have literally zero moral qualms about eating live koala with a side of bat soup. Wretched, wretched people.

>>14617572
Not even close.

>>14618284
Imagine not realizing your country is run by jews, the only group you can't call out on their bs. Imagine being brainwashed to ignore the moutain of evidence.

>>14622530
>the Chinese have literally zero moral qualms about eating live koala with a side of bat soup.
Why on earth would you have moral qualms about this?

>>14617626
the biggest threat to humanity is autists

entertainment technology is the biggest problem with modern day America

>>14622511
>>14622498
Uh no they are not Fascist. Read a book in your life.
As far as abolishment of private property, there are no major privatized industries in China, they are all supervised or answerable to the state. One could say land or property is leased to private persons or businesses, but the party still oversees all these operations pretty dramatically. Again, for better or for worse. A lot of private enterprises are actually just state owned and their CEOs are appointed by the party because running a company is part of the meritocratic path towards higher placement in officialdom.
And as for "concentration camps, " not that I condone what they are doing, however, it is massively overstated what is happening and there is a lot of propaganda circling to beat China over the head with rhetorically.

>>14622556
I wonder who's behind porn though.

>>14622580
>but the party still oversees all these operations pretty dramatically.
as did the Fascists. Btw the Holocaust is also American propaganda

>>14622540
You can call out Israel if you want, the Leftist academia literally shits on Israel all the time. You retards confuse an ethnic group with a political power, you can't just shit on Jews in general for what Israel does.

>>14622643
What's so retarded about noticing things? I'll assume you're not a kike posting in bad faith, how can you just ignore who has your balls in a vice and flexes on you every day?

>>14622684
Same reason everyone pretends there are no race differences, it's the state religion. The most disheartening thing is that 95% of people who break free of this mind virus don't end up being any more sensible, they just latch onto a different narrative authority.

>>14622684
So I take it you recognize that criticizing Israel and criticizing an alleged conspiracy of ethnic Jews trying to undermine whites are different things, that's a good start.Now you just need to give me good evidence for the conspiracy and you can win the argument.

>>14617572
yeh, definitely. all the poor white men committing suicide in middle america are doing it because of "" the marxists ""

>>14622722
The line is signficantly less clear than you'd think. After all if you can accuse AIPAC of being American Jews who are more loyal to Israel than the US, which the Democrats come very close to doing, you are very close to saying that Jews might be acting in other ways within America to promote their interests. I mean there are a ton of Jewish organizations in the states, that's no conspiracy.

>>14622405
The working class hates you trust fund trannies.

>>14622798
Let's not pretend Republican Inc is any better. It's called the kosher sandwich for a reason.

>>14622693
What the fuck are "race differences"? There are differences between individual people. Do you just not go outside and think you relate with and have a connection with every whiteoid? What a grotesque world view that you have.

>>14622831
>there are differences between people
>there are somehow no differences between groups

>>14622831
Race differences refer to average measures of genetically distinct populations. Has nothing to do with who anybody relates to or has a connection with. I suspect you know this though and you're just signalling that you're not a dumb neonazi.

>>14622822
I am working class. Most people don't know what's in their interest and are just stressed with their day to day life. Read Marx.

>>14622831
>what the fuck are race differences
Simply watching the NBA should clue you in to the fact that we’re not all cut from the same cloth.

>>14622831
You people are something else

>>14622842
Im sure if tall ass nords got into the sport thered be more of them. Its just a poor ghetto nigger sport so thats why theres more of em

>>14622840
Marxists think it's in the workong class's best interests to starve to death in gulags.

>>14622840
Most people are capable of having interests that extend beyond their body. Materialists, Marx included, are robots physically incapable of understanding this.

>>14622853
*snorts ideology*
ok now i can talk on the same page with you

>>14622860
Nothing to do with anything and what you said means nothing but ok

>>14622867
It is. As a materialist, you aren't capable of untersanding human motivation outside of selfish desire for material goods. All of life's greatest joys are out of your reach, so all you can do I response is pathologize those capable of obtaining them.

I really don't see why it's wrong to put your I'll I to slavery. It would be no different from me using this computer.

>>14622885
You don't know what materialism even is. Read a book, hack spiritualist.

>>14622446
>China today is following Marxism to a tee and they are doing fine.
China is literally a dystopian hellhole.

>>14622895
>You don't know what materialism even is.
The npc's kneejerk response to someone defining a term in a way differently than he has been taught
>hack spiritualist.
Basically just confirming your crass materialism

>>14622895
I have from both the classical tradition that in which man described themselves as no more than machines or from the Marxist tradition which is quick to deride having any desire outside of immediate material gain as "false consciousness." I have better reason to regard my phone or as laptop as having a higher a similar existence than you. You may be capable of some form of imagination, but you use it just as much as they possibly could.

>>14622905
>>14622925
All there are are events and their multitudinous relations to each other.

>>14617572
>not the based version
Shame.

>>14622798
>The line is signficantly less clear than you'd think. After all if you can accuse AIPAC of being American Jews who are more loyal to Israel than the US, which the Democrats come very close to doing, you are very close to saying that Jews might be acting in other ways within America to promote their interests.
Nope, that line of reasoning is completely fallacious. AIPAC is an explicitly pro-Israel lobby. You can't infer from some Jews being pro-Israel that all Jews all pro-Israel. That would be like pointing to America First and arguing that because some White Americans promote White Nationalist policies at the expense of non-Whites, that Whites are probably acting in other ways within America to promote White Nationalist interests. The inference is unsound. A good counter-example to this whole idea is the Leftist Jews in Academia. White nationalists like to make the point that Jews tend to promote pro diversity, open borders etc. policies in the West but they are in favour of birder walls in Israel, and this is taken as evidence of a nefarious Jewish conspiracy against western interests. But if you actually look at the situation with some subtlety, you will see that the leftist jews are always explicitly anti-Israel and heavily critical of their border wall and their foreign policy. You also have the odd idea that Democrats are the pro-Islael party, even though the Republicans are the ones who accuse the SocDems of antisemitism when they criticize the monetary influence of Israel in American politics. From the US politicians Bernie Sanders is often critical of Israel, even though he is a Jew, while Donald Trump never criticizes it. This idea that all Jews have the same political agenda just because they are Jews is just obviously false.

>>14624094
If some Jews can get together and form AIPAC for Israel, then another bunch of Jews could get together and form the SPLC(or whatever) for other interests. The point is that it's usually not allowed to look at Jewish organizations, but the Dems have started looking at AIPAC, which kind of opens the floodgates as it were.(no idea why you think I said Dems are pro-Israel)

I will point also that George Soros absolutely does not extend his activist philanthropy to Israel

>>14624094
>. That would be like pointing to America First and arguing that because some White Americans promote White Nationalist policies at the expense of non-Whites, that Whites are probably acting in other ways within America to promote White Nationalist interests.
also this is literally exactly what people do say. There are entire departments of universities that basically only study this subject of white supremacy.

>>14624144
>If some Jews can get together and form AIPAC for Israel, then another bunch of Jews could get together and form the SPLC(or whatever) for other interests.
Right, but the point is that pointing to Pro-Israel lobbies doesn't give any credence to the idea that there are also secret jewish lobbies promoting an anti-white agenda, that point needs to be argued separately.

>>14617698
This obviously. Those who don't agree didn't understand.
>>14617626
You mean the far left of the Capital, and the far right of the Capital?