/lit/ - Literature

*kills you*

>>14596089
>types *kills you* into his computer console while lacking the actual strength or willpower to kill anyone

>>14596122
>What if you had a gun?

>>14596068
People seem to go full brainlet with this book/point of view and insist on higher values. Heinlein did a great job of pointing out that whayever "higher value" you have is backed by violence and force. Even the most civilised parts of the world aroubd us are supported by force. Drinking fucking tea is possible because of high security on shipping lanes that keeps valuable cargo from Somali pirates, the threat of prison if you rob the store you buy the groceries from, the security you put in place at your home that allows you to enjoy a relaxing afternoon without looking over your shoulder the whole time. Force is everywhere and the response that "hurr durr no cos I got the police" which is just an example of a greater force.

>>14596155
This is basically my current understanding. I am interested in a system of formulating morality or a code of conduct within this. But I guess that's just "the law"? Then I am interested in the philosophical principles of the law.

>>14596162
Don't dwell on this as the basis too much. It can get demoralising as you see that building a grand narrative above it is kinda futile as any forceful ideology can surplant it. Whether by physical force or by cunning and persuasion. Just accept as a truth that force is the grand authority and navigate the world with this understanding.

>>14596162
every system needs to build a narrative to justify to itself and to others the inequalities it creates.

>>14596162
plato "gorgias", the part where callicles talks

>NOOOOOOO I MEAN MY MIGHT IS RIGHT YOU CAN'T JUST BREAK DOWN MY DOOR AND FORCEFULLY TAKE ME TO PRISON AND KEEP ME THERE INDEFINITELY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>14596068

>THE STATE WILL HENCEFORTH TAKE ALL THAT PURPORT THEMSELVES PREDATORS FOR THEIR WORD BY SENDING THE MILITARY TO KILL THEM AND EAT THEIR FLESH
>NOOOOOOOOO I READ THE 69 LAWS OF POWER MY DUDEZ NOOOOOOOO

>>14596068
>why yes, every head of state in history was a gladiator, and even every general leading an army bested every single one of his soldiers.
fucking mongrels

>>14597207
Based

>>14596916
Fuck, that's good. I'm going to use a derivative of this in some of my work.

read hobbes

>>14597666
>>14597653
>>14597375
>>14596089
t. didn't read the book

There's nothing wrong with submitting to the will of a power that could enact violence against you if, either out of negligence, incapability, stupidity, or simply to harvest profit, it is not enacting violence against you. Just admit that you only pay taxes because the Feds will hurt you if you don't, not because you believe in the principle of taxtion or whatever.

>>14597868
Nice projection there, sheep.

>>14597810
>man functions the same on a collective level as he does individually

>>14596068
Might is right but only if you have the might of God

>>14596068
Maybe I'm a brainlet but I genuinely don't understand how you could make an argument against it. Like yeah violence breeds more violence etc gay shit blah blah blah. But if you don't use force to change the system to benefit you and your needs then you're just a cuck and a slave trade someone else's will. So fuck it might as well use violence to make your society how you want it and censor those who resists right? I can't think of any moral or logical argument against it.

>>14598216
Sometimes your might isn’t enough and you’re overcome by your misdeeds. In general, you should do what’s good for you, and that usually includes making friends, not enemies

>>14598230
Yeah trying to force your will over others can come to bite you in the ass but if the system before was so bad for you then wouldn't death be a better alternative anyways. Like yeah what I really want is the world to be like this but if I can't have it dying would be preferable. I mean that mentality is the only way shit gets done anyway. So I still don't really see a good argument against it.

>>14598269
There’s a difference between having power and using it. Obviously in some situations you would need to use it, but you shouldn’t worship power as if you can get everything you want by controlling others.

>>14596068
>reads wikipedia page once

>>14598288
Controlling others is still power, it's just soft power. I should have been more specific in what arguments against "might makes right" I'm looking for. I'm trying to find a secular criticism against "might makes right" as a world view, not as the practical application of power. I say secular because the only arguments I've been able to find against it are based in Christian morality, and while I am a Christian I don't think the arguments it presents a late particularly useful. Is there any books that cover this?

>>14596162
Nicomachean Ethics

>>14596068
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

>>14596068
Yes.

>>14596068
Yes read Derrida

>why yes might IS right!
>WOW HOW DARE THOSE NONWHITES BE MIGHTIER THAN WHITE PEOPLE!

>DAMN THOSE MONGOLS!

>>14598582
>but wait NOOOOOOO WHITEOIDS YOU CAN'T JUST REMOVE NON-WHITES FROM YOUR SOCIETIES NOOOOOOOOOO THAT'S RACIST STOOOOP

>>14598325
I've been grappling with this for years.

>people actually glorifying the carousel of death and violence they so desperately want the universe to be

golems

>>14597375
>>14597653
>>14597666
unbelievably low-IQ seething, samefag

>>14596068
How does might make right? A huge crowd can be mighty and be completely wrong. Being the only survivor isn't the same as being right.

>>14598587
>>14597375
it's just undignified to see you guys aping months-old /tv/ soijack culture

>>14598861
truth is subjective and "right" is a social construction enforced by power

>>14598891
Truth is not purely subjective. If it was, there would be no way to make any statement about it.

Also, you can praise subjectivity all you want, but some people are better at using tools than others. If a crowd of people who can't use a certain tool banished or killed all the people who can, the only thing that's subjective there is the crowd's sense of superiority.

>>14598926
You don't understand what "subjective" means

>>14599002
You don't know what being right means.

Reminder to read Whitehead, Deleuze, and Spinoza