/lit/ - Literature

like nigga close your eyes haha like just meditate nigga

Pali canon

>>14578430
also nigga get this

Westerners CANNOT understand Buddhism

>>14578424
you dont.

Dive in.

>>14578448
I don't plan on being some kind of hipster, I intend on renoucing the material world completely

>>14578424
Have the desire to give yourself a psychological lobotomy, because that's what Buddhism is. It's a system of control just as insidious as Abrahamic religion, only using different means.

>>14578471
you paid the 1 dolla to get his pictures?

>>14578483
kill yourself then

>>14578513
I don't know what you're talking about. It's regularly posted on different Buddhist forums.

>>14578512
this

>>14578424
With him.

Meditate.

>>14578424
By sniffing your own farts.

Can someone explain, or recommend a work that explains how three bodies of buddha and christian trinity differ from each other. I skimmed a book about buddhism where it was mentioned, but did not go deep enough.
>>14578448
I can! I consume so much anime and manga that I'm practically japanese.

Here is how you do it, in all seriousness:

>Watch instructions on zazen, the most simple sitting meditation
>Watch youtube lectures by Alan Watts
>Start practicing meditation while also looking for books on buddhism
>Get to know who the fuck was Siddharta
>Get to know basic principle stuff, the fuck is samsara, nirvana, boddhisatva, that there is mahayana, vajrayana, what are the sutras, and so on
>Search your local community for support, maybe there is a place you can meditate with other people near you
>Don't mind on deciding for a path too early in, they are the same, follow what appears to you
>Other people are important in the process
>Keep reading going back to the source avoiding
>Read on hinduism and daoism too, situate yourself
>Practice meditation in your daily life, don't overdo it, don't overestimate it, just sit, breath, observe, listen, sometimes for mere seconds throughout the day, sometimes when your mood swings or when nothing is happening, sit straight and contemplate stuff a bit before diving into them, do it properly once a day though, for 10 minutes

Just another way to surrender yourself into ego death and servitude to ideals that will drag you down.

>>14578424
I'm not a fan of religion.

>>14578430
I am really unsure meditators understand what is happening.

>>14578448
I think the religious brand of Buddhism might be a mistake.

>>14578483
Why? Your life-force will propel you to suffering.

>>14578512
I think the doctrine of not-self was seriously misinterpreted.

>>14578757
Canonical Zen masters reject sitting meditation as a route to enlightenment.

>>14578798
I am not sure this has anything to do with what the Buddha taught.

Buddhism is not right. Rearch vaishnavism and Chaitanya. Hare Krishna.

John Holder - Early Buddhist Discourses
or: >>14578445 (it has Theravada bias though)

then:
>Paul Williams - Mahayana Buddhism - The Doctrinal Foundations
for an overview of Mahayana history/philosophy.

Then you branch on whatever you'd like. I suggest Nagarjuna/Madhyamaka in general, or read more Pali Canon Suttas, or whatever.

May all beings be happy and free from suffering

>>14581022

>>14580876
Isn't mahayana basically help the others before awakening yourself? Wouldn't theravada be the truer buddhism?

>>14581149
They're both true but different paths. Different paths for different people.

>>14581164
How do I know what path is for me?

>>14581172
Study and practice.

>>14581164
Theravada seems like nothing but materialism and/or naive realism to me.
>just meditate on the fact that each moment/feeling/perception was given to you and you can't step out of it and you have no say in it

Remember reading some Buddhist comparing the fundamental axiomatic difference between Theravada with Mahayana which produces such a stark difference between the two to be because of the 14 unanswerable questions. Theravadins basically took the Buddha not answering them to mean that they genuinely shouldn't be considered whereas Mahayana understod them as being unanswered by the Buddha because they were asked from wrong assumptions. So metaphysics and philosophy really took off in Mahayana because of this while Theravada remained relatively static. It was a Mahayana book though so one might need to take it with a grain a salt but seems plausible to me.

>>14578448
I'm Chinese and I don't really understand Buddhism because of that.
>get told to do rituals and worship my ancestors
>get told stories about Guanyin
>participate in Buddhist funerals

>>14578424
start with the greeks

>>14581353
>get told to do rituals and worship my ancestors
>get told stories about Guanyin
>participate in Buddhist funerals
Based. Just as the Buddha taught during his last day before achieving parinibbāna.
>"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis neither enact new decrees nor abolish existing ones, but proceed in accordance with their ancient constitutions?"
>"I have heard, Lord, that they do."
>"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

>"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis show respect, honor, esteem, and veneration towards their elders and think it worthwhile to listen to them?"
>"I have heard, Lord, that they do."
>"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

>"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis show respect, honor, esteem, and veneration towards their shrines, both those within the city and those outside it, and do not deprive them of the due offerings as given and made to them formerly?"
>"I have heard, Lord, that they do venerate their shrines, and that they do not deprive them of their offerings."
>"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

You Chinese are alright and I for one welcome our new overlords.

>>14581397
How does that help with enlightenment?
Or is this just how lay people are supposed to act?

is there a strand of Buddhism that doesn't care about seeking enlightenment? cause a lot of the psychological and philosophical aspects of Buddhism appeal to me, but I believe that killing the self is merely another illusion, just like lsd-induced ego death. It's a cool and rewarding experience for some, but not everyone

>>14581172
>>14581149
not really, i prefer mahayana in fact. theravada seems to have realist tendencies. the pali canon gets very dry. there's no "true original" buddhism, you can't say that theravadins are closer because they stay to the sole original texts because theres no single analysis of it, they created the abhidarma in fact which is the scholastic summary of the canon. i find mahayana metaphysics make a lot more sense. i'd also rec you avoid any irl identification with sects, they all seem very pozzed.
note to all this: im not a buddhist

>>14581620
secular 'buddhism'

>>14581715
but in my experience it's as you say, "buddhism", which is just new age cherrypicking, with some ambiguous "spirituality" thrown in. Is there anything more authentic that fits my criteria?

>>14581620
and what do you believe is worth pursuing then? pleasure or something like that? remember that enlightenment even in buddhism is not for everyone, mostly for monks, laypeople go on normally about their lives. also check pyrrhonism maybe.

I'll use this thread to ask:

What's /lit/'s opinion of Dogen and how do I start with him?

>>14580268
>Canonical Zen masters reject sitting meditation as a route to enlightenment.
Oh yeah? Says who? Sitting meditation is the basic shit, zen people do it, everywhere from all buddhists do it, daoists do it, yogis do it, bunch of other religions do it. We are talking western ignorant level here, it's not like OP has seen some shit and can "descend from the mountain" already if he can't even sit still and breath for 10 minutes.

>>14581763
I like how buddhism generally encourages questioning your thoughts, your feelings and what makes you "you". I also like its emphasis on not clinging to desires because they cause suffering. In other words, I like the Buddha's diagnosis but not his instructions to find a cure, especially awakening. It's true that life is suffering, but Nirvana isn't real, there's no higher plane of existence and escaping ALL suffering is impossible. Besides, suffering is necessary for some lifeforms, including us. I'd like to study a strand of Buddhism that teaches a treatment, not a cure, for suffering (if it exists)

>>14581856
Pyrrhonism is what you want. Which is Greek Buddhism as Pyrrho got converted by Buddhists while on campaign in India with Alexander.

>>14581892
thank you

>>14581022

+1

>>14578424
https://discord.gg/9FncZd4

>>14581856
Nirvana isn't a "higher place", it's an extinguishing of the self. It's a complete recognition that there is no self. The purpose of questioning your thoughts and feelings is to help you be mindful of the fact that there is no real self.

>>14581989
>. It's a complete recognition that there is no self
>*blocks your path*

The Pali compound term and noun for “no soul” is natthatta (literally “there is not/nonattha+atta’Soul), not the term anatta, and is mentioned at Samyutta Nikaya 4.400, where Gotama was asked if there “was no- soul (natthatta)”, to which Gotama equated this position to be a Nihilistic heresy (ucchedavada). Common throughout Buddhist sutra (and Vedanta as well) is the denial of psycho-physical attributes of the mere empirical self to be the Soul, or confused with same. The Buddhist paradigm (and the most common repeating passage in sutta) as regards phenomena is “Na me so atta” (this/these are not my soul), this most common utterance of Gotama the Buddha in the Nikayas, where “na me so atta” = Anatta/Anatman. In sutta, to hold the view that there was “no-Soul” (natthatta) is = natthika (nihilist). Buddhism differs from the “nothing-morist” (Skt. Nastika, Pali natthika) in affirming a spiritual nature that is not in any wise, but immeasurable, inconnumerable, infinite, and inaccessible to observation; and of which, therefore, empirical science can neither affirm nor deny the reality thereof of him who has ‘Gone to ThatBrahman” (tathatta). It is to the Spirit (Skt. Atman, Pali attan) as distinguished from oneself (namo-rupa/ or khandhas, mere self as = anatta) i.e., whatever is phenomenal and formal (Skt. and Pali nama-rupa, and savinnana-kaya) “name and appearance”, and the “body with its consciousness”. [SN 2.17] ‘Nonbeing (asat, natthiti views of either sabbamnatthi ‘the all is ultimately not’ (atomism), and sabbam puthuttan ‘the all is merely composite’ [SN 2.77] both of this positions are existential antinomies, and heresies of annihilationism])’”. In contrast it has been incorrectly asserted that affirmation of the atman is = sassatavada (conventionally deemed ‘eternalism’).

>>14582008
However the Pali term sasastavada is never associated with the atman, but that the atman was an agent (karmin) in and of samsara which is subject to the whims of becoming (bhava), or which is meant kammavada (karma-ism, or merit agencyship); such as sassatavada in sutta = “atta ca so loka ca” (the atman and the world [are one]), or: ‘Being (sat, atthiti (views of either sabbamatthi ‘the all is entirety’, and sabbamekattan ‘the all is one’s Soul’ [SN 2.77] both are heresies of perpetualism]). Sasastavada is the wrong conception that one is perpetually (sassata) bound within samsara and that merit is the highest attainment for either this life or for the next. The heretical antinomy to nihilism (vibhava, or = ucchedavada) is not, nor in sutta, the atman, but bhava (becoming, agencyship). Forever, or eternal becoming is nowhere in sutta identified with the atman, which is “never an agent (karmin)”, and “has never become anything” (=bhava). These antinomies of bhava (sassatavada) and vibhava (ucchedavada) both entail illogical positions untenable to the Vedantic or Buddhist atman; however the concept of “eternalism” as = atman has been the fallacious secondary crutch for supporting the no-atman commentarialists position on anatta implying = there is no atman.

http://chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/Anatta,_Anatman,_No-Self,_Soulessness_and_other_Nihilistic_bullshit_your_local_retarded_%27%27buddhist%27%27_will_tell_you_about.

>>14582008
>>14582013
Friendly reminder that the Buddha denied the Hindu conception of atman prevalent at that time(individuals being in possession of a soul) and instead taught non-duality. This completely btfo all the Hindus so over time they started to adopt Buddhist Atman and then now turns around to attack the Buddhists saying they're stupid for denying the Hindu(read:Buddhist) conception of Atman.

tl;dr on Hinduism and its development
>woah you said this mantra will make me rich and powerful?
>oh I need to sacrifice some animals in a certain way with a fire?
>praise Agni, praise Indra!
>wait who is this 'Buddha' kid they keep talking about
>oy vey he's gaining popularity
>quick bros we must preserve Brahmin supremacy somehow
>"actually guys our dharma is about the self, reality, maya, oneness, liberation etc....forget the sacrificial rituals and deva adoration we once championed (psyche we still do that)"
>oh shit he's still gaining tracti- wait look the muslims are pushing them out!
>finally we can challenge buddhism and 'win' debates against some peasant monks and write about how we're awesome and shit centuries after that fact, they'll never know that we took their arguments from them it'll take em by surprise bro
>oh btw the Buddha was Vishnu all long so hooray for us!
>*takes a celebratory shit in the street*

>>14582071
truth

>>14578424
Tibetan Book of the Dead

>>14578732
>three bodies of Buddha?

What? You mean like Buddha body of emanation, etc.? Those are different planes of existence.

>>14581989
>it's an extinguishing of the self
i.e. ego death. A shortcut to ego death is taking LSD or doing shrooms. There's no reason to believe they're not the same thing. The descriptions tend to be the same (there is no self, we're all connected, etc.). I believe there IS a self, it's just that our concept what makes up this "self" is clouded by our unreliable perception. I think meditation is closer to the Truth than nirvana is. But of course that's just my opinion and it could be completely wrong. My opinion is a bit informed by what I've read of the mind's modularity, though.

Has anyone read this?

>>14581793
https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/78hr37/a_zen_master_rejects_sitting_meditation/

>>14582071
That's not atman.

Non-duality isn't even anatman.

>>14582186
Ego death isn't anatman.

>>14581149
Theravada is secretly dualist and therefore a failure.

>>14583209
no, because anatman is a doctrine. I never once mentioned anatman. Ego death is a hallucinatory phenomenon caused extremely rarely by meditation and commonly by psychedelic drugs. Who knows, maybe siddhartha's enlightenment was caused by his fasting. Many things from extended undernourishment to lack of sleep can cause all sorts of hallucinations

>>14583190
hello ewk, first you singled handedly a subreddit and now your next target is /lit/. Interesting

>>14583190
hello ewk. first you singled handedly destroyed a subreddit and now your next target is /lit/. Interesting

>>14578424
I'm reading this one and it gives a clear explanation.

>>14581620
Killing the self? How can you kill what does not exist?

>tfw I've never read any Buddhist or Hindu texts but still achieved meditative Euphoria on my fourth try while just laying down and focusing beyond myself
Why yes, I am the Buddha.

So can I just read the Tibetan book of the Dead?

>>14584309
Yes, it's rather long though with tons of an annotations.

>>14584319
Why does Tibetan Buddhism just seem to btfo every other form of Buddhism?

And shouldn't I at least read the basics of the Pali canon first?

>>14582087
Yes, the dharmakaya, sambhogakaya, and nirmanakaya stuff. The book I skimmed was The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, from the monk who got metoo'd. It basically shows parallels with trinity and trikaya, but leaves it at that.

>>14583190
>https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/78hr37/a_zen_master_rejects_sitting_meditation/
Oh, "a" zen master, one. And then I read it and I don't see him rejecting sitting meditation at all, only that sitting meditation alone is not everything, which is also general knowledge.

>>14584330
There's Theravada with Pali canon, Mahayana Canon, and Tibetan canon. Each can be read independently or through a hybrid.

Both Tibetan and Mahayana contain roughly all of the central texts in Pali canon.

The most authentic buddhism is when you're one cog in a machine of apocalyptic violence

>>14584968
I wonder how many realized emptiness as they were spiking babies. We would never know it but maybe it was the biggest mass event of enlightenment since the Buddha.

>>14584968
It is just to punish those who disturb the public order. Whether one kills or does not kill, the precept forbidding killing [is preserved]. It is the precept forbidding killing that wields the sword. It is the precept that throws the bomb. - Sawaki Kodo

>>14584319
>>14584309
lol this book is utter intellectual trash about how they think what happens after some retard dies. It i snot buddhism at all.

>>14578424
You could try reading this, a very ancient Pali text, probably the largest fragment of "primitive" Buddhist philosophy still in existence, and according to Paññobhāsa Bhikkhu, possibly the most important document in all of Buddhist literature:
http://www.nippapanca.org/uploads/2/4/5/9/24591864/av_path_press_edition.pdf

>>14585797
That guy need to go back to Burma. All he does nowadays is to post hot women on his blog and Minds.

His soul is too pure for the west.