/lit/ - Literature

>>14554292
not literature

>>14554321
>helpful reads Waiting for Godot, Meister Eckhart sermons, Gospel of Thomas

>>14554292
>take everything literally instead as metaphors
Which of these is the greatest?
--That the literal meaning is true, and there is no metaphorical meaning
--That the metaphorical meaning is true, and there is not literal meaning
--That the literal meaning is true, and the metaphorical is true, but they have no relationship
--That actual truth transcends all levels of meaning, so that the literal truth and the metaphorical truth are one and the same

If God is the author of creation, why do you suppose he is bad a telling the story?

>>14554513
>god has written the bible

>>14554513
The absolute truth is beyond the mind/thought/concepts and can never be understood because you cannot access is it with mind alone

Buddha was very wise with the concept of nothingness to avoid worship and the eventual trap, illusion(Maya) the mind produces to keep the absolute hidden.

>>14554565
He has written all being, and the lives of all men are written in his hand. Nothing can happen which he does not allow. You acknowledge God has made all things, but you would deny that he would give this truth to Men in a clear way? Why do you deny him an easy thing, but not the greater thing?

>>14554571
Why is he wearing sunglasses?

>>14554292
what I don't understand is how people can accept that there are optimal ways to solve problems algorithmically, but the problem of existence and purpose must be solved on faith and with no method. If modern religion had a method I'd be more inclined to listen to it, but its failure to justify its approach beyond blind faith is insurmountable to me.

>>14554639
Exactly , the original founder finds enlightenment points to the truth while followers mistake the pointer for the truth and become trend followers in a line ,slaves to egregore ideology while these nonorganic beings will use anything to feed to minds who know no better. You can see this pattern in any trend,its a universal law. Many such cases.

>>14554639
Take a step back. Algorithms only solve problems optimally based on the preset conditions which bound the algorithm. The pre-established parameters are the limits of algorithmic deduction. If the algorithm is understood as nothing more than the process of logic, a pattern of reasoning, then really all heuristics and reasonings are algorithmic. First, certain rules are established, then in a step-wise fashion, the rules are followed. That's an algorithm.

Now you've run into a problem. You are looking for an algorithm which has as its conclusion Faith in God. But as the Catholic Church puts forward, God is not the end of the process, but the beginning of the process; that is, Faith is the beginning of religion. As proverbs puts it, Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. In other words, the Catholic church puts forward Faith as the precondition of religion. Or put still a different way, Faith in God is the first parameter, the first condition, of the algorithm of Religion, whose purpose is not to solve for God, but rather to solve for the optimal way of life. The problem is not if God exists, but how to live.

You are asking religion to be something which it is not meant to be.

>>14554292
>Jesus was just a philosopher/mystic who understand the truth.
What truth was that? Was it this?
>Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

>>14554513
define “greatest”

>>14554738
Why can't you define it for yourself?

Faith can definitely save you if you live in a world you believe is haunted by demons and in which belief in Jesus Christ is said to protect the faithful. You are suddenly outside a horrific war of all against all, no longer needing to be afraid of spells and curses because they can't hurt you as a Christian. This is salvation in a very real level for those who experience it.

It's just that most modern Westerners don't believe in such a world so they can't understand Christians who do.

>>14554781
>Salvation only means protection from demons
>But demons don't exist
>t. not a demon

>>14554738
If God is an author, do you think he's a poet?
If God has a voice, do you think he sings?
If God has made all time, do you think there is no harmony? No lyric? No rhyme?

>>14554292
>X was just a Y who understood the truth
???

>>14554825
a good read that answers your question is The Yoga of the Sacraments .His time spent in India

>>14554850
If somebody understands the truth they are not 'just' some guy, they are exceptional and should be at least extrapolated, not at all reduced.

>No, don’t follow that made up mystic nonsense
>Follow my made up mystic nonsense instead
>Everyone is stupid but me

>>14554689
If a method of problem solving can't be applied to itself, that is a flaw. Algorithms aren't "established" as much as they are discovered. How the human translates the algorithm into a human-consumable is one of an infinite number of possible conceptualizations of a quality of mathematics. The rules of mathematics are one of an infinite number of possible conceptualizations of the fundamental observable principles of our universe. Maybe "God" made those principles to begin with, but no method that asks of its practitioners to A) not apply the method to itself and B) disassociate the method from reality is ever going to seem like anything more than a failure of understanding.

>>14554924
I don't think you understand what an algorithm is, nor what I said. It really seems like you are more interested in arguing against Religion by the phrase Algorithm than you are actually interested in either religion or algorithms.

>>14554351
>muh loophole
fuck you and your misguided illocutionary force
>problem is with brainlets mistaking finger pointing to the moon with the moon itself
not just christians though. almost everyone.

>>14554781
That isn't the point of Christianity and it isn't why people become Christians.

>>14554781
You have watched too many anime.

>>14554292
You are vulgarly, and crudely, conflating Christianity with judeochristianity; furthermore, by disregarding faith, and reason, as impellent, and mediatory, forces of Spirit, you ignore what it means to know, and worship, God, relegating yourself to the subhuman level of a mere consumer of God's plenitude, being no better than a lethargic psychedelic drug user, and certainly no better than a blinded religious dogamtist, placed merely on the opposite end of the agnostic spectrum.

>Only direct experience with creator,brahman,absolute... matters
1. "Brahman" is a syncretic concept that conflates God, as a distinct ontological entity, with God's plan/pattern, and with God's plenitude.

2. God does not ceate; God generates.

>>14555217
>relegating yourself to the subhuman level of a mere consumer of God's plenitude, being no better than a lethargic psychedelic drug user, and certainly no better than a blinded religious dogamtist, placed merely on the opposite end of the agnostic spectrum.
Just on this i know you havent walked the path but merely read empty constructs stuck in mental paradigms.
You dont consume gods plentitude you become alike in quality replacing ones will to receive with the will to bestow only then can true good be done ,only then can one be reborn in gods imagine free of karma/sin.
Brahman in Advaita is absolute which only is itself and no anything else covered by Maya illusion ,
Empty words salads cannot replace light of liberation.

>>14555217
>>14555264
A faith without works cannot be called faith. If you do not do the work of the lord, then how can you say that you know him? All gnosticism is a trick of the devil. Knowledge of the lord is obedience to his will.

>>14554292
>Are christians retarded?
Generally yes. But there are those who are just Christians because they're Consequentialists and think Christianity creates muh good society. But this too is a form of retardation since any thinking man will realize that everything that those people oppose is actually the necessary fruit of Christianity.

>>14555264
>Just on this i know you havent walked the path but merely read empty constructs stuck in mental paradigms.
To what are you even referring?

>You dont consume gods plentitude you become alike in quality replacing ones will to receive with the will to bestow only then can true good be done ,only then can one be reborn in gods imagine free of karma/sin.
I think that you ignore what are faith and reason.

>Brahman in Advaita is absolute which only is itself and no anything else covered by Maya illusion ,
What does this have to do with what I posted?

Improve your reading comprehension.

>>14555290
Why do you quote my post?

>>14555290
>All gnosticism is a trick of the devil.
You ignore what is "Gnosticism".

>>14555326
I don't quote you.

>>14554944
religion algorithm:
for all things
A) consider god
B) consider X thing
C) reconcile those things as an act of god
except this doesn't work when you apply it to itself. Which is just a math function f(x) where x is thing and f(x) is understanding ie method of explanation

>>14555309
>pic
I suppose it is inconceivable to the children of the devil that an action taken in support of truth and goodness is not the same as a similar action taken in support of lies and evil.

>>14555340
You put too much faith in yourself.

>>14555358
I guess if you say so, that must be it.

>>14555359
>w-we're the good guys! I swear! now let me smash everything that is empirically beautiful, wholesome and proper for muh abstract volcano demon's promise of eternal heaven/hellfire! why you forcing me to do this? ;^(
cringe and christcuck pilled

>>14555391
I am not a relativist so your little insult has no bearing on my beliefs. Try again.

>>14555391
Since this is a /lit/ board, do you have any idea of what "empirical" means and where it comes from?

>>14554758
>why can’t you make my argument for me?

>>14555326
Faith and reason cannot tap into creator essence nor ever will , you live with the concept of god instead of reality of it .
You dont understand brahman is quite alike as any other mystical path which leads to same destination if it did not it wouldnt be the absolute truth .
As Manly P hall said once you reach god there is no faith only pure knowledge.

>>14555365
I place no faith in myself, because faith should be reserved for God alone; however, in concord with my faith, I do trust/have confidence in my work/s.

>>14555416
And what is the doctrine of your faith?

>>14555397
praise YHWH
>>14555399
Yes.

>>14554967
It is why many people become Christians in the Third World, aka where Christianity is actually growing.

>>14555427
So, to know something by experience, we know it empircally. By experience, we know that truth is more beautiful than deceit, and that and ugly thing remains ugly, no matter the artifice. By experience, we know the Roman gods are false. By experience, we not the Catholic faith is true. We know by experience that those Romans statues caused people to worship false Gods, and so therefore we know by experience that they were ugly. By experience, we know that statues can aid in proper worship as well. We also know by experience, that ISIS and like-minded individuals do ugly things serving an ugly devil, that they are not servants of God. We know this, because we know by experience the sings of God--namely the fruits of the Holy Ghost. We know by experience that Islamic terrorists do not experience these fruits, nor do they bring these fruits. Therefore, we know by experience that the image on the left is beautiful, and the image of the left is ugly. It is known by experience, and so it is accurate and true to say that it is empirically known. The only way you can deny this obvious and experienced truth is to argue against your own experiences and the experiences of all men.

>>14555412
>Faith and reason cannot tap into creator essence nor ever will
Indeed, because God's essence is comprehended by God alone.

>You dont understand brahman is quite alike as any other mystical path which leads to same destination if it did not it wouldnt be the absolute truth .
What does that have to do with my post/s?

>once you reach god there is no faith only pure knowledge.
Knowledge of God, following belief in God, consists in, and is impelled by, faith in God.

You ignore what are faith and reason.

>>14555423
My faith is immanent, and was realized through gnosis.

>>14555457
>be christian
>*eats pus*
imagine thinking this is logos. Well that is the Christian faith for you.

Sorry sweetie but empirically filth eating is cringe and wrong The Roman Gods are true. Pagan Rome lasting for over 900 years while christcuck Rome lasts for less than 90 years is more than enough proof.

>>14555480
what about the Byzantine part though

>>14555493
Like Christ and Gnosticism, too based for this world.

>>14555478
So in other words, your faith is indistinguishable from your feelings of pride. No man can be the doctor of his own faith.

>>14555493
It sucked.

>>14555500
Improve your reading comprehension, and do not project.

>>14555480
What experience do you have, or does anyone have, of Roman society?

>>14555515
based

>>14555515
I am aware of immanent philosophy. You're about 150 years late for your Scottish Rite lodge meeting. If you pursue the left-hand path, if you follow the harlot, all your possessions of mind and spirit will be given to those who are even more wicked than you.

>>14555543
>I am aware of immanent philosophy.
All philosophy, as being ontological fulfillment through gnosis, is firstly immanently realized.

>You're about 150 years late for your Scottish Rite lodge meeting. If you pursue the left-hand path, if you follow the harlot, all your possessions of mind and spirit will be given to those who are even more wicked than you.
Improve your reading comprehension, and do not project.

>>14555478
You replied to second anon later on.
Faith nor belief can not penetrate into reality of god.
We can tap into god essence as much as a drop of water can into the essence of ocean as it is the same on one layer.
Have you ever experienced the states of awakening or just read theological aspect?

>>14555577
>if it feels true, it must be true

>>14555614
>Faith nor belief can not penetrate into reality of god.
I have not claimed anywhere that faith, nor belief, "penetrate" into anything, therefore, I ignore to what you are referring here; faith, and belief, in God, facilitate knowledge of God, and of God's plenitude/reality.

>We can tap into god essence as much as a drop of water can into the essence of ocean as it is the same on one layer.
You are conflating God's plenitude/abundance with God's essence; God's essence is available to noone but to God alone, just as a Soul's essence is available to noone but to the Soul, and to God.

>Have you ever experienced the states of awakening or just read theological aspect?
If by: "states of awakening" you are collectively referring to: "enlightenment", then my answer to you is: both.

>>14554639
Read about Swedenborg

cringe ptsd from having just learned about gnosticism zoomer. i'd say this belongs on /x/ but i have a feeling you aren't 18

>>14555828
>If by: "states of awakening" you are collectively referring to: "enlightenment", then my answer to you is: both.

Ladies and gents, this is why every thinking man has a hard time taking christcucks seriously.

Re-read what you just said. I hope you feel ashamed. Jesus preached humility, you are far from being a humble person.

>>14555859
That anon is not a Christian.

>>14555828
Why do you think belief and faith facilitate knowledge of God?
Isint it another degree of separation from god?In the end all concepts must be dropped in order to find liberation.

>>14554292
Yes, they are.

Daily reminder it has been empirically proven religiosity stifles scientific innovation.

https://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/papers/Religion%20December%201g_snd.pdf
http://www.nber.org/papers/w21052.pdf

Daily reminder the overwhelming majority of leading scientists are atheists

https://www.nature.com/articles/28478
https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1936-6434-6-33

Daily reminder most philosophers are atheists

https://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl

Daily reminder religious people are less intelligent according to dozens of studies.

http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/The_Relation_Between_Intelligence_and_Religiosity__A_Meta-Analysis_and_Some_Proposed_Explanations.pdf

Daily reminder religious people are less educated

https://www.economist.com/news/international/21623712-how-education-makes-people-less-religiousand-less-superstitious-too-falling-away

Religious people are literally a lesser breed of human

>>14555867
Liberation from what?

>>14555859
Improve your reading comprehension, and do not project.

>>14555867
>Why do you think belief and faith facilitate knowledge of God?
Because knowledge of God necessarily cognitively follows belief, and faith, in God; one cannot know regarding God without having faith in God; one cannot have faith in God without believing in God.

>Isint it another degree of separation from god?
Contrarily: it conduces to unification with God; all concepts of this world that, via reason, serve to mediate connection with God, and with the divine, will be terminated once total transcendence occurs, and one becomes fully reunited with God.

>>14555929
Daily reminder that the most popular isn't the most competent.
Socrates had it right.

>>14556017
Whatever you say nu-boy

I was going down the rabbit hole of Catholicism, however some things have been making me reconsider where I'm heading in life. I have a friend who's probably a repressed homosexual and religious zealot, and this guy is completely miserable. He hates his family for being "worldly", and has a general misanthropy towards people. It opened my eyes, in the sense that I can see the same thing developing in myself, and I don't think it's a healthy way to relate to the world. Religion can heal, but it can also be used as an outlet for bitterness and an inferiority complex.

>>14556108
I'm sorry to hear that, on both accounts. This is a strange time for the church and on all sides ordinarily faithful Catholics are being led down twisted and prideful roads. Faith is no small thing, so I'm curious to hear more about your questions and doubts. I imagine you have some impending decisions in your life that are hanging pretty heavily?

>>14556017
I dont think it is so, from personal experience and point of view from spontaneous liberation,
Buddhism completely negates it yet the path leads to same destination .
I still completely disagree with you on what you said of consuming Gods plentitude .How is that not idiotic? It is the highest knowledge of God with endless practicality.
You become more alike ,the work you do is in union with god and therefore far more useful.
It is to live in accordance with God for when your cup is filled you want to share it with others
Bhagavad Gita is essential this

>>14555987
Suffering,mind,duality ...

>>14556202
What does that mean? What is liberation from mind? What is liberation from duality? Duality of what?

>>14554292
How does this pertain to literature where are the fucking mods?

>>14556150

I'm at the crossroads right now, and I'm afraid of continuing down a path that I will ultimately regret. Perhaps my conceptualization of the church is warped, however I'm not seeing any type of genuine salvation, but instead self righteous neuroticism.

>>14556247
What kind of crossroads do you mean? What is troubling you?

Low quality thread

>>14556196
>I dont think it is so, from personal experience and point of view from spontaneous liberation,
>Buddhism completely negates it yet the path leads to same destination .
Enlightement/"spontaneous liberation" occurs in both: Christians, and Buddhists, regardless of whether it is attained primarily via: reason, or vision; however, upon receiving God's grace, the former strives to mediate, and optimize, the world, whereas the ethos of the latter is that of resignation into eremetism; hence, for the former, reason serves both: a meditatory, and a mediatory, purpose, whereas for the latter, it serves primarily a meditatory purpose, with its mediation consisting solely in exemplar/metaphorical language.

>I still completely disagree with you on what you said of consuming Gods plentitude .How is that not idiotic? It is the highest knowledge of God with endless practicality.
I wrote that in response to this part of your original post, which indicates that you are either: a spiritual parasite, or, as was later made evident, merely ignore/d what are: belief, faith, and reason:
>no concept,belief ,faith can save you or produce anything transformation of value ,they are meaningless.
If, as you say:
>the work you do is in union with god and therefore far more useful.
Then, by, firstly: having the belief in God, and, secondly: having the faith in the purity of God's grace, that are requisute to trust working within God's plenitude - having reason that is of angelic clarity, inspired by God's grace, only moreso serves to further mediate/clarify one's/the world's connection with God, and to better optimize the world, via: ideas, concepts, and notions, actualized through virtuous work; in this - Christianity excels.

Virtuous work with lacking, or deficient, reason, is suboptimal, just as Buddhism is suboptimal in relation to Christianity.

>>14556543
What works of theology have you actually read?

>>14556607
Why do you ask me that?

>>14556779
Your descriptions and syntheses are idiosyncratic. I'm curious how you came by them.

>>14556796
Here is my general answer to your overly general question: various works.

>>14556868
Are there any you would recommend?

>>14556892
Yes:

- The Nag Hammadi texts.
- "Pistis Sophia".
- The Gospel of Mary Magdalene.
- The Gospel of Judas.
- The Apocalypse of John.
- "The Book of the Two Principles".
- "Mundus Millennialis".

>>14556543
Out of curiosity what is the method of union with divine you used to get to that point and how come so many christians are stuck in external rituals and egoic identity with the ideology but never experienced union.
I started engaging with spirituality after certain experiences.

>>14554292
Yes.

>>14557234
keked

>>14557021
Firstly: through faithful affirmation, and through various work, being confident that something as beautiful as children and animals, and as powerful as Spirit, have a transcendent source; Secondly: via rational confirmation, and via noble lifestyle.

>>14557404
>Out of curiosity what is the method of union with divine you used to get to that point
Firstly: through faithful affirmation, and through various work, being confident that something as beautiful as children and animals, and as powerful as Spirit, have a transcendent source; Secondly: via rational confirmation, and via noble lifestyle.

>how come so many christians are stuck in external rituals and egoic identity with the ideology but never experienced union.
1. You mean judeochristians, not Christians; judeochristianity is a judaized corruption of Christianity; presently, there are only a few actual Christians currently alive in the world.

2. judeochristianity, as a religion, is traditionalistic, being an institutionalized perversion of spirituality, hence the chimeric abomination that it is.

>>14557021
>Out of curiosity what is the method of union with divine you used to get to that point
Firstly: through faithful affirmation, and through various work, being confident that something as beautiful as children and animals, and as powerful as Spirit, have a transcendent source; Secondly: via rational confirmation, and via noble lifestyle.

>how come so many christians are stuck in external rituals and egoic identity with the ideology but never experienced union.
1. You mean judeochristians, not Christians; judeochristianity is a judaized corruption of Christianity; presently, there are only a few actual Christians currently alive in the world.

2. judeochristianity, as a religion, is traditionalistic, being an institutionalized perversion of spirituality, hence the chimeric abomination that it is.

>>14557466
I had spontaneous Satori and more after as a result of accumulated suffering.
I just wonder of rational confirmation since many sages say that the mind cannot tune into source ,cannot sense its reality more then a mere idea of it.
As well as advising to move the center of consciousness to navel area instead of brain.

>>14557575
>I had spontaneous Satori and more after as a result of accumulated suffering.
Good; if that is true, then you should have realized your ontological potential, or a part thereof.

>I just wonder of rational confirmation since many sages say that the mind cannot tune into source ,cannot sense its reality more then a mere idea of it.
Indeed, that is why Mind, as an organic medium, and reason, as motion of Spirit through Mind, should be used to confirm the truth of the divine via the reflections/expressions of the latter within the worldmedium, thus making way for Spirit, enabling optimization of this Kosmos, and sequential transcendence of Soul; total transcendence cannot be completed unless this Kosmos is first optimized, a process which transcurs within all aetheric planes.

>>14556969
Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. You think youw walk closer to him, but with each step you carry yourself further away.

>>14555929
Daily reminder that atheism is a logically irrational position to take and that theism is the only rational position.
See kalam cosmological argument and the ontological argument.
Fuck you

>>14554292
I absolutely agree OP and Chrisrian literalism is abhorrent

>>14558561
To be fearful of God is to possess an erroneous notion of a malevolent, unjust divinity, and to lack Nobility, or integrity of one's own Nobility; I think that you are an unwitting victim of systematic judeochristian indoctrination, and this causes you to ignore God.

>>14554292
>Religions is essentially spirituality for retards
It's quite obvious the inverse is true. Spirituality is for retards. Now, I'm not trying to imply that religion is for geniuses either, however it is smart to conform. Spirituality is such a free style that it attracts morons who half ass everything in life. Spirituality is the Dr.Oz of ideology. Why so many woman love it?

>commitment is fluid
>dedication is flaky
>you make shit up as you go (where as the bible is already made up for you)
>no memorizing
>lot's of predatory men are the "guru"
>no values
>based on "self care" aka solipsism

At least Religion is ideology of conformity with the added bonus of a prepackage viewpoint on death.

Spirituality? It's white noise. Here is my energy rock. My spiritual smoothie. I'm on a juice cleanse. I listen to Sam Harris.

Burning man and burning wicked whores in the village square are two entirely different things.

>>14558753
God created all things. If he chose to annihilate me, how would it be unjust? I had no right to be made. God made me out of love, and yet I coninually disobey him. He gave me the freedom of choice that I might be co-author of his divine plan, and yet I do not obey his will. I do not listen. I introduce discord into his creation. I bring harm to creation itself. God has made me, and by sin I reject him--I who have no power but that which was given to me by God, reject that very same God, on whose gratuitous love I rely to merely exist. God has made all things. Righteousness can only be understood as correctness before God. That I am still alive is a testament to God's patience and mercy. If he brought me out of existence, it would, by definition, be just. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

>>14558596
>kalam cosmological argument
Defeated by eternalism

>ontological argument
Lol

>>14554571
osho is a sexual pervert a bad guru and probably a rapist

>>14559933
>yeah dude my mom gave birth to me so like if she wants to kill me it’s totally fine haha, I wouldn’t be here without her after all

>>14559933
Your constant fear of failing to realize your own potential, and your own expectation of yourself, is what causes you to project your fear outwardly. Fear, elevated beyond the primal level, is a morbid, pessimal state of psykhe; God is as averse to morbidity, and to interacting with anything that is pessimally inclined, as it is absurd to claim that possessing fear toward God has anything to do with Wisdom, which is, firstly, realized through love. Instead of fearing God, which is both: aberrant, and redundant, you should strive to proactively overcome your fear, and receive God's grace, coming to know God's actual love for what is noble, and optimal.

>>14558753
Ones own fear does not imply malevolence or evil. Many people are afraid of the truth, of confessing, of even admitting that there could be a “right” path.

>>14560408
>Ones own fear does not imply malevolence or evil.
I have not claimed, nor implied, that it does.

>>14556969
wait, you are a gnostic?

>>14555480

Catholics are not Christians.

>>14560559
How could you not tell?

>>14558805
Big yikes lad, seems you know only of LA merican spirituality
There are many beautiful experiences one can go threw as well as coming no true inner peace, happiness
The practical benefits are endless as well.
Healthier body,mind etc

>>14555290
>If you do not do the work of the lord

Which is...?

>>14560191
My Mother gave birth to me, and so it is right for me to be obedient to her. But she did not fashiom my soul. She did not give being to my atoms. She did not create the ground I walk on. She did not create my mind. And though she sutained me in her womb and as a child, she does not sustain my very being. God's will is the source of all being. That is, what God wills, is. Though God has created many other wills, and has given freedom to our will, it is only a limited freedom, because our will has only a little power. He gives this to us as a gift. When I lay paint on canvas, it is my will which makes something beautiful. But it is God will which creates the room, the image, the air, the idea, the emotion, even the time--the being and presence of all things. It is true, I was created in my Mother's womb, but it is God who created me a living sculpture. As I have the right to destroy the sculpture I make, so does God have the right as creator to destroy what he has made.

>>14560565
catholics are the only christians

>>14559933
>God created all things.
That is a false statement; Spirit was generated by God; however, humans, and animals, in particular, were created by the demiourgos, Ialdbaoth; if you want to return to God, rather than wallowing in fear of an image of God, it is up to you do so.

>>14560559
Yes, I am Christian/Gnostic; Christianity, and Gnosticism, are the same thing.

>>14560398
Man's greates potential and his highest callong is to do the will of God. Perfect obedience is done in perfect love. To will what God wills, to want what he wants for no other reason than it is pleasing to him--that is what is best in life. In fact, it is the meaning of life. It is life itself. One who is wicked, who is confused, who plaves lesser things above greater things--such a person as we all are--such a person cannot will what God wills, for they cannot hear God nor see him, and so they cannot know his will. To be lifted out of wickedness, it is easiest first to fear God--to fear offending him. Perhaps this begins as a selfish desire, to fear offending him for fear of punishment. But, with humilty, it changes. One begins to fear offending God out of love of God. Because one loves him, but does not know him well, one seeks to do his will, but can onky tremble in the awkward and failing attempts. With time, this fear becomes true love. One learns to know God's will. One learns to hear his vouce in the world and in the soul. When one begins with Fear of the Lord, God will not fail to lead that one to the perfect Love of God. There is no greater wisdom than the Love of God. There is no great Wisdom than to please the Lord. Therefore, the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.

>>14560624
See how clever the Devil is? According to tbis devil, God made heaven, but not the earth; an evil one made the earth. Therefore Christ cannot be God, for Christ is of the earth.

How can it be that God made spirits, but that God has no power over the spirits? Who is like unto the Lord?

>>14559933

Morality is not capacity, or "might is not right".

>>14560598
Have you not heard? Has no one told you? Is your heart silent?

>>14557833
By the way what do you mean by ontological potential ?Not quite sure of context here of ontological , not a native speaker.
I do realize however tapping into source and unifying ones will greatly expands ones potential which far exceeds the action coming from ego.

>>14560675
God has created and sustains all things. What law could be placed over him? What law could exist and be called righteous that is not his law? God is not merely righteous, righteousness itself belongs to him. The perfection of righteousness is indistinguishable from his will.

>>14560672
The Devil rules the Earth, and the kikes are its chosen people.

>>14560624
if not catholic, not christian; i'm sorry

>>14560706
He is king by deceit and his children are all those who lie, who deceive, and who place themselves above the Lord. But who is it you can call evil, you who do not even know your own heart?

>>14560703

Being able to do something does not make it good.

>>14560608
>>14560652

Consider the way in which you are blaspheming here. You are saying God's power is merely a quantitative apotheosis of worldly power, i.e. a beast kills another because it is hungry, water freezes because it is cold, your colon empties itself because it is full, etc., absolutely amoral cretinism maintaining itself through nothing but inertia.

>>14560725
Yes I know. God has made all things. God has made goodness. God possesses all goodness. God is Good. In his goodness, God has made us. God gives us the freedom to act. But there are things God allows us to do which are not good. If God did not allow us to do evil, we would not have freedom. God made us to be free. Wanting us to be free, and knowing we will do evil, God has given us signs and instruction. God has taught us how to do good. Still, people disobey God and do evil. They place their own judgements above thr judgements of God, who is Good. When it is said God has made all things, please understand the breadth and depth of what that really means. All things. What is seen, and what is unseen. The laws of heaven. The laws of the earth. All souls. All beings. All matter. All of it. When we create things, it is only the combining of things. When we speak, it is onky by symbols and relationships. When God speaks, it is. When God creates, it is new. Whatever you can consider, whether it be a thing of this world, an invisible law, an idea, a relationships, or any quality--it was either created by God or else is a perversion of what God has made, a disorder introduced by those who exalt themselves above the Lord.

>>14560771
Do I do this, or do you do this? It seems you mistake power with violence, or with strength, or with antipathy, or with function. Power is authority, command, superiority, obedience. You think of a lion killing a gazelle, and call the lion powerfuk because it is bloody. I look at my hand and see how I have power over it. My hand does as I will, without hesitation. If my hand were cut off, we would say it is still my hand, but I would have no power over it any more, it would not obey me. A man has power over another man when the latyer obeys. A good master brings good things to himself and to his servent. A bad master brings dishonor to himself, and suffering to his servant. If I use my hand to comfort and infant, I am a good master of my hand. If i command my hand to cut itself, I harm my hand and myself. God has created all things, and so has power over all things. But he gives us freedom. We can choose to obey, or we can choose to disobey.

To understand, watch a loving father with his young child. The father, who rests, asks the child to go and get him a glass of water. For the father, this is simple. For the little child, it is a great challenge. As the child works, the father watches. It brings joy to the father to watch his son, and it brings joy to the son to please his father. A simple thing which mattered very little to the Father in its own right has become a source of great joy for both the Father and thr Son. This is a demonstration of power. Only the disobedient know power by suffering.

>>14560782

I mean, I could go on, that this is anathema to the "Christianity" you claim to observe for several reasons, say, that both the degree of separation "Christians" put between God and the world and the importance they place on the latter would make "God is Good" a comparatively "gnostic" argument since they maintain God is most certainly NOT the world, but whatever. Let's just say that you would consider it good (?) if God were to torture everyone forever, and are the irony here is totally lost on you??

>>14560837

Yes, you do say this, even in this reply: "God has created all things, and so has power over all things".

>>14554292
>Religions is essentially spirituality for retards
This, except the opposite

>>14560608
>no see actually it’s different because my mom didn’t REALLY give birth to me haha

>>14560956
By whose will do you exist? By you own will can you add any day to your life? Do you exist by your mother's will? If, tomorrow, she willed for you to die, would you die? You exist by God's will. If he were to ever will that you should not exist, immediately it would be so. Your mother gives birth to you and clothes your soul with flesh, but it is by God's will.

>>14560913
Have you ever made anything?

>>14560892
Oh really? Name the anathema. Who promulgated it?

To your latter point--if God willed it, how could it be bad?

>>14560990

I make sense, for starters.

>>14560652
>One who is wicked, who is confused, who plaves lesser things above greater things--such a person as we all are
Your tendency to project your own ignobility, and the ignobility of others, onto everyone, betrays your bonded worldview, and precludes you from realizing that noble & virtuous individuals comit nothing that would cause them to disappoint God, much less to fear God.

>>14560672
>God made heaven, but not the earth
Sofia created this Kosmos; the demiourgos, Ialdabaoth, an abortive emanation of Sofia's terror of being seperated from God, synthesized this Kosmos from matter, firstly: unconsciously, in concord with God's pattern of Pleroma, and then: consciously, deviating entirely from Sofia's essence, and introducing sexual intercourse within matter.

>Therefore Christ cannot be God, for Christ is of the earth.
1. Jesus was born on Earth, not Christ.

2. (Jesus) Christ, and God, are two mutually ontologically distinct entities.

>How can it be that God made spirits, but that God has no power over the spirits?
God does not help anyone unless one runs to God for help.

>>14560695
>By the way what do you mean by ontological potential?
Latent potential/power of entity.

>>14560717
Catholicism is a sect of judeochristianity.

Any comprehensive teaching that purports to be Christian, whilst neglecting, or ignoring, the Telos and/or ontology of Sofia, is either: judeochristian, or pseudochristian, if it is any kind of teaching at all.

>>14560998
It's a genuine question. You don't seem to understand what I am saying, so I'm hoping it is only that i am expressing myself poorly. Have you ever made anything?

>>14560996

I mean anathema in the sense of antithesis, which is too rigorous a word to use here, "promulgated" by Logic, mostly.

>>14561001
Convenient that this cosmology lets you call yourself righteous and wise, but makes no demands of you. You need change nothing in your behavior, but by an idea you may call yourself clean?

>>14561018

I had an unfortunate proclivity for visual art. I'm only answering out of morbid curiosity, I'd wager you'll hit full blown Dadaism in about 3 replies.

>>14561022
That is not what anathema means. Nor have you put forward any logic.

>>14561056
You think so? Visual art is a pretty wide range of things. What kind of art?

>>14561076

Digital, surrealist.

>>14561048
>Convenient that this cosmology lets you call yourself righteous and wise, but makes no demands of you.
Wisdom, and righteousness, are recognized through noble work, not merely (self)assigned.

>You need change nothing in your behavior, but by an idea you may call yourself clean?
The Christian ethos is one of noble proactivity, therefore, I ignore what makes you think that the reality of this Kosmos, and of this world, would foster idleness/lethargy in Christians.

>>14556017
>Projection
You're literally a tripfag on an anonymous imageboard claiming to have achieved "enlightenment". That's extremely egocentric and arrogant. Even if you discuss interesting ideas, you will always be hampered by your ego. Filtered.

>>14561001
the telos of sophia is non-sophia, comprehension of the incomprehensibility of the incomprehensible; sophia is a means; catholicism understands the theurgical ascension that is beyond discours; performance of the mystery

>>14560986
>You exist by God's will.
prove it faggot

>>14561086
And what is the process of the art? How did you make it?

>>14561102
But in all you have written on this page, not once have you described this noble work. Not once have you explained what it is, or how it is done. I tell you that fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, because it moves one to act righteously. You tell me the fear is unfounded, because the righteous have nothing to fear. But how does one become righteous, how does one become wise? Who among us is born righteous? So you tell me I am debased, that I speak nonsense, that I put forward a false path. You look down on me as though you are righteous, and I am not. That is fine. It may even be true. But how does one become righteous? You have not said.

So far the only convincing argument supported by the evidence in this thread is everyone is retarded. That's why I'm here to make my mark and partake in the retard communion, desu.

>>14561160

I didn't, for the most part. The few pieces I "finished" were just exercises in geometrical formalism. Hence "proclivity" and me no longer doing it.

>>14561206
I mean the actual mechanics of making. What was the physical process?

>>14561218

Clicking and moving a mouse?

>>14561229
Did you ever make a mistake?

>>14561240

Yes.

>>14561184
Op here, welcome embrace the light and wisdom from this thread
and most of all
Consider it
''Bestowed''

>>14561246
How did you know you had made a mistake? And, on seeing your mistake, whay did you do?

>>14554292
Sure. I'm a Christian and I'm retarded; so retarded that I actually enjoy reading literary prayer collections- Sam Johnson wrote a mean prayer, for instsnce, as did Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I also like old sermons- Taylor's, Andrewe's, Donne's, etc. Pepys' Diary (desu) documents a time when sermons were a respected literary genre, when the preachers of most renown held services at different times on Sundays so as not to compete directly with one another, while the young gentlemen of fashion would go to service after service just to listen to whom they felt the best preachers were -then meet at coffee shops the next day to compare and contrast, I.e. to rate just as (we) do 'here,' except in these not retarded times (we) tend to rate books unread, authors hardly known, etc.

>>14561181
I would recommend Meister Eckhart sermons if you're christian if not advaita or zen. Detachment of all beliefs ,concepts ,desires .
Digging deep within and meditating on true inner nature.
Finding the inner realization of being as formless sky(nonduality) ,a ray of sun merging with the sun. Only then can you truly be good and not before. When you are overfilled with inner peace, happiness ,complete fulfillment it easy and effortless do be and do good there is no trying while prior to that we might we have good intentions but without the absolute light our actions are still on level of karma/sin

>>14561106
>You're literally a tripfag on an anonymous imageboard
This is not an anonymous imageboard.

>You're literally a tripfag on an anonymous imageboard claiming to have achieved "enlightenment". That's extremely egocentric and arrogant.
Your excessive aversion toward the disclosure of one's enlightenment, that is: realization of one's ontological potential, is amusing to me.

>>14561125
None of that regards Sofia.

>>14561181
>But how does one become righteous?
By proactively leading a noble/good/healthy lifestyle, which comprehends: heroism, kindness, veganism, and optimally: celibacy; I do not think that I need to provide you with examples of ways to share, and actualize, these virtues within the world.

>>14561263

Mostly because the "mistake" did not fit with what I had already drawn. However, upon realizing that this is completely absurd since I could have just as easily kept the "mistake" and throw away what I had already drawn, making something else relative to which the "mistake" would not be a "mistake, I realized the absurdity of art itself and abandoned it.

>>14561279
>None of that regards Sofia.
go on please

>>14561279
>By proactively leading a noble/good/healthy lifestyle, which comprehends[, among other things]...

>>14561299
So because you could not tell whether what you were making was good, because you had in fact thrown out any sense of good or bad in your creation, you stopped creating? You did away with it all?

>>14561274
So to be righteous, I need only read?

>>14554292
https://discord.gg/wSzFjSU

God is infinite and so i can't limit him by the known. Since i have freedom I gave birth to God, but God also gave birth to me. Those who deny his people do poke the reflection in his eye. This symbolic reality we are in as creatures must not be the Lord which describes the fullness of life. True creation is a function of spirit, of which matter is only one expression and theme of. It is not good for God to be alone. There is a lot of good potential for this dark reality, but don't expect someone to show you God as much as God can show. Gods child will always be closer to him than his sheep. The servant does not abide in the house forever.

>>14561279
Those things you list--what makes them righteous? Can they be done unrigtheously?

>>14561375
I would say reading a step but not the most important one , practising conscious awareness in daily life not being overrun by thoughts or emotions .

>>14561393
>Those things you list--what makes them righteous?
The purpose and quality of their practice, which is enacted in pro of what is right, just, noble.

Can they be done unrigtheously?
No.

>>14561420
Why is that righteous?

>>14561444
So one is righteous because they do these things and these things are good because they are right. Why are they right?

>>14561364

Technically speaking I can tell there are many good-bad parameters, orthogonal, parallel, tangential, etc. therein, not the least of which being the "bad" in abandoning art, and the "good" in transcending it, to Philosophy, forming a kind of retroactive causality and Dialectical Morality.

>>14561459
>Why are they right?
The purpose and quality of their practice, which is enacted in pro of what is right, just, noble.

I do not think that I need to explain why it is right to save, protect, and cultivate what is pure/noble/good; if you require more information regarding this, I advise that you turn to God.

>>14561454
You purify from the false self , no being swayed by illusion and from that clarity your acts will be inclined to good ,the closer you become alike to source the easier it is to effortlessly be and do good while the further you are the more you have to try the more effort it requires.

>>14554967
People become [whatever] mostly because they were born into it, but im curious about what's ypur alleged reason

>>14561515
Outside of veganism and celibacy, you haven't offered any definition of those good things, though. Certainly, what is good is good. But to know whether something is good, this is what you are failing to answer. You are offering complex cosmologies and circuitous definitions, but no justification. You tell me to turn to God if I want answers. But you cannot tell me where to find him, nor how to speak to him. It really seems like nothing more than self-flattery.

>>14561467
That is not my point. My point is that you did not like what you made, so you undid it. You erased it. You destroyed what you made because it didn't agree with you.

>>14561701

I don't know how you would conclude that from this reply >>14561299, if anything you should conclude the opposite, and, moreover, that the parameters of it agreeing or disagreeing with me are not at all what they seem. Nor did I say that me destroying it was "good", in fact, I said it was "bad". Anyway, you're all too stoned in this thread, even the "gnostic" tripfriend is stumbling. Put the bongs down. I'm going to bed.

>>14561771
I didn't impart any moral weight to your artistic apocalypse. You made it. You create it. It is yours. You have power over it. It exists or does not exist according to your will.

Goodness is God and is thus to some degree incomprehensible. Only by being part of goodness can you know it. Jesus used the term "everlasting life" as one of his descriptions of his own theosis. Obviously only persons/minds can know love. God is known in some measure by all the highest and best parts of life, all comprehended not one thing separated from another. And so in contemplation slowly our eyes become stronger and better able to see through the dross in order to know the purity of silver.

>>14561790

See:

>>14560675
>>14560725

>>14561694
>But to know whether something is good, this is what you are failing to answer.
I reiterate: if you are incapable of intuitively discerning Good from Evil, and comprehending how it is that heroism and kindness are the ultimate actualization of what is Good, and/or how it is that veganism and celibacy are spiritually and biophysically optimal practices, then you are spiritually/ethicomorally ignoble, and no amount of reasoning will compensate this deficiency, nor does it warrant any further reasoning.

>You tell me to turn to God if I want answers. But you cannot tell me where to find him, nor how to speak to him.
One turns to God through prayer.

Yes, I too am a warrior of faith.

>>14561830
But just as you made those images, God made Goodness.