/lit/ - Literature

>>14540577
1st, 2nd : good
3rd : meh
4th : trash

Zarathustra is essentially saying that there is "no great truth," as promised by the dialectic of enlightenment, or christian religion. There is no way to achieve "knowledge of knowledge" there is no "kingdom come." What does this mean then? That man will fall into nihilism. Nihilism as defined by Nietzsche is the judgement that "all is worthless." This judgement is a result in the loss of the belief in Christianity / dialectical philosophy. It places all of the value in this world on this promise of truth. This promise of eventual justice, in heaven, either on this earth or in the next life. When man falls into nihilism, he will come close to perishing, he will want to die, he will destroy himself. Only the emergence of the Ubermensch, the man who creates his own values, and transcends this nihilism will save our race.

>>14540602
What do you think the subject being communicated in the first part is? Several parts are highly quotable and there's wisdom blended in the flowery language but I have a hard time building a cohesive idea of what it means as a whole

>>14540622
Zarathustra is meant to make you read the rest of Nietzsche to understand him. If you're interested, pick up The Gay Science, The Genealogy, and Beyond Good and Evil.

>>14540617
So this transcendence over nihilism is facilitated by an evolution from man to superman. I remember a line saying something like:

"Man is a rope over an abyss connecting the best and the superman."

Maybe I'm reading too much in to this but what is the abyss supposed to be? Is it self-destruction? In implies that man is in peril because he is neither beast nor superman but literally drawn between the two.

>>14540577

>>14540646
*connecting the beast

>>14540646
The abyss is essentially self-destruction, yes. It is the full realization that all is worthless. You know the prophecy of the last man? He doesn't go out with a bang. He fades away, he wants mere comfort, and to him, reproduction would be a mistake, for all is worthless, the pain and toil of being a human at all is not worth it.

>>14540667
"Man is something that shall be overcome. Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman — a rope over an abyss. What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end."

I found the quote online and I missed that last piece. Man is a bridge and not an end and this is what makes him great. What are some characteristics of the superman that Nietzsche idealizes?

I would've loved to see Nietzsche engage with immortality. We might be able to reach a state of near-immortality by eradicating diseases and the effects of aging but would still be subject to accidents. Consciousness-uploads could transform everyone into actual gods, with capabilities beyond the ubermensch N. dreamed of - which is WHEN his philodophy would be most important: a post-societal utopia definitely not reliant on God.

But in the sense of his mortality he was a man of his time. The last man could've turned out differently. Eternal return a poor surrogate in a doomed world, teeth bared with tears in one's eyes.

>>14540690
the overman's only ideal is that he creates new values, new values which are beyond the idea of "good and evil." The overman is the great transvaluator of all values. He is necessarily not a "perfect" man, for perfection is the god that the christian worshipped, and it was its lack of reality which led them to nihilsm in the first place.

>>14540699
The Overman is literally trans-humanism. "Man is something that must be overcome." Trans-humanism today disgusts most intelligent people, because they are smart enough to see that its genesis would be their extinction, at the hands of a tiny majority of capitalist elites, none of whom who have any fucking wisdom.

>>14540721
I think though that Nietzsche though would think immortality is unwise. Infinity is too long to bear. Death gives our lives purpose.

>>14540721
Yes obviously. But did he conceive of trans-humans in a way we can, knowing what is possible?
I have no basis for this but I like to think that the ubermensch is foremost purely intellectual and technically open to everyone. I don't know if Nietzsche would approve of cyberpunk capitalist posthuman elites.

>>14540741
If you read Birth of Tragedy, you will find a very delicate, and almost humanist spirit. Human, All Too Human as well. He loved art, and culture, and man, he really, despite all of his darkness, wanted what was best for his species. A grey, polluted, sterile planet is not that. Fiat currency is literally nihilistic.

>>14540577
Worthless trash for hippies without a clue. Nietzche would have shit on you for asking.

>>14540705
But the transvaluation of morals is a value in itself. It's infinite.

>>14540796
that's a hack solution, and you know it. You use the transvaluation of morals TO create WITH. It's not an ends, it's a means.

>>14540651
>I am the overman
Now wait a minute. I'm pretty fucking sure Zarathustra never said or even implied anything close to this. Fucking dogshit comic.
But please correct me if I am wrong.

>>14541077
You're accurate. I think it's a misreading of "I present you the Overman" or however it's translated in English

>>14541077
>>14541111
Playing devil's advocate here but it may just be a superficial reading of Zarathustra which lends itself to thinking Z and by extension Nietzsche are overmen.

>>14541077
this comic is a total misreading of Nietzsche's philosophy, but it did actually make me laugh

>>14541335
The thing is in the book that's like the main joke.

>>14541309
For a very broad definition of reading, sure.