/lit/ - Literature

>>14535457
But what about sixth and seventh sense?

Start with the Greeks

Look up sense date, if you like analytical philosophy, or phenomenalism, if you like continental philosophy. Although, judging by your post, I'm pretty sure you're not philosophically read at all (no offense)

>>14535493
*sense datA

https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/think-you-have-only-5-senses-its-actually-a-lot-more-than-that

also, do you not experience emotions my man?

>>14535457
I get what you mean man. Don’t listen to these cynical pseuds clogging up your thread. You can’t tell if someone is philosophically well read only from the prose and articulation of their expression of thought on a 4chan post

>>14535457
This is Heraclitus but for retards and in a small nutshell. Look up one Heraclitus fragment and you'll see he's already touched on this and much more. Baby steps OP, baby steps.

>>14535613
Emotions are based off of sense input you retard

>>14535457
Was your deep thought a sight, a smell, a taste, a sound or a feel?

>>14535780
he's saying that emotions themselves are a sort of inward-facing senses lmfao

>>14535875
based

>>14535457
>i cant get it across like it is in my head. Am i retarded?
no. it's common. you're normal. be more patient.

>>14535457
>5 senses
Stopped reading there, I think it is about time for your nappy time at kindergarten.

>>14535780
>>14535960
You do understand that humans started utilizing areas of the brain that already existed when we evolved, and that we did not sprout entirely new and revolutionary appendages to handle emotion and thought, right?
The part of the brain that handles the emotion of moral disgust is handled by the same area of the brain that identifies nasty food and creates the physical sensation of disgust. You LITERALLY taste disgust, as if it was a physical substance.
Talk to another person and the environment around you will bleed through your senses and directly alter your perceptions of that person. Holding a glass of cold or warm water will to a large degree determine your initial perceptions of a stranger as having a warm or cold personality.

>>14536064
>Holding a glass of cold or warm water will to a large degree determine your initial perceptions of a stranger as having a warm or cold personality.
Like many popular priming related effects, this finding didn't replicate

>>14535457
>I just discovered representational realism
fucking retard

>>14536064
>Talk to another person and the environment around you will bleed through your senses
Weird, it’s almost like my emotions are a product of my senses.

Wanna get more money to touch and taste ur mommas booty lmao

>>14536064
Any pop science book that explain this? This sound really interesting. Is almost like you could manipulate anyone perception of you only by the environment.

>>14535457
No. You probably haven't developed your conscience enough, but are emotionally docile enough that you don't really hurt people all that much, or all that often.
>only what your 5 senses tell you and how you react to that
>and how you react to that
Your strong sense of materialism is causing you to throw out the deeper, broader, and more important component of life. Certainly, you would not try sleeping in sandpaper just for a novel sensation. Therefore, you have greater desire than novelty of sensation. If you admit that there are some sensations preferable to others, you immediately acknowledge that there must be some kind of consideration of what makes things preferable. With that, hopefully you can recognize that what is preferable cannot really be considered without dealing with moral questions. Once you arrive at moral problems, you will discover that physical sensation is the least part of the consideration. The senses are the language of the world, but they are not the content.

>>14535457
Lol read Discourse on Method

>>14536231
It sounds interesting but it's not true, at least not to a relevant extent. The phenomenon is called social priming. You can read about it in Thinking, Fast and Slow by Kahnemann, for instance. Unfortunately, ALL of the studies the chapter on social priming in that book was based on repeatedly failed to replicate.

>>14535476
Technically we have nine senses.

>>14536480
You'll never pass as a real cat

>>14535457
read kant, you're not that deep

>>14536480
we have 20+ senses lol. a more liberal definition puts the count in the 30s

>>14536578
>20+ senses
Lies. Name them if you can

>>14536578
There are 2 senses: common and uncommon.

>>14536641
There is one sense, the rest are unknown.

Please read at least 1 (one) book before thinking your kdeas are worth shit.

>>14536630
can't list all of them off the top of my head, but I can easily name more than nine.
light, color, smell, touch, hearing, taste, pain, temperature, balance, acceleration, proprioception, hunger, thirst, need to piss and take a shit

>>14536792
>taste, pain, temperature, balance, acceleration, proprioception, hunger, thirst
All proceed from the base five senses. Try again

>>14536825
>All proceed from the base five senses.
false and you know it.
>Try again
no u

>>14536578
>>14536630
The 5 senses as we know them are abstract labels and don't reflect biology.

>>14536853
>false and you know i
Pain comes from touch. Temp comes from touch. Balance comes from touch. Acceleration comes from touch. Etc. Etc. Tactile constitutes literally everything you’ve listed beyond the base.

>>14535457
That's why Buddhists believe that the world we perceive is actually a fake one, an illusion called the Maya.
The true world is revealed once you become enlightened and you stop living for your senses.

>>14536908
>the world is fake
>your senses are fake
>you can only see the real world when you become enlightened... through your senses
Hmmm

>>14536866
Where does proprioception come from? I could get it if it were the ears cause of balance, but idk.

>>14536915
You know that the most important processes happen in your brain right?
Your eyes just send signals through, your brain has to process it and decide what's useful and what's not.
Once you become enlightened you still see things the same but you process them differently.

>>14536862
they don't reflect phenomenology either
>>14536866
headaches don't come from touch, that's silly. some, not all, pain comes from touch yea fine. temp doesn't come from touch unless you consider your skin to be touching itself, and even then, the biological mechanism and the sensation itself are different from that of touch. I'm even willing to grant that balance is touch, as liquid is touching tiny hairs in your inner ear, fine. if we take your retarded logic to its conclusion, we have only ONE sense - that of touch, and all other senses proceed from it - molecules are touching, wow how insightful.

for whatever reason, this thread really brought out all the tryhards

>>14536941
>You know that the most important processes happen in your brain right
Proof?

>>14536977
Maybe you should add some science books to your shelf.

>>14536945
>headaches don't come from touch
Inflammation is tactile.
>temp doesn't come from touch unless
Tactile receptors respond to heat
>we have only ONE sense
Technically true. We can only interpret waves. We just have organs which interpret a variety of waves.

>>14536987
I’d wager the spinal cord is more important than the brain.

>>14537002
You need the whole thing, and arguably the spinal cord is just part of the brain.

>>14537018
Arguably the brain is just a part of the spinal cord.

>>14537035
Yes, that's how that works. They're all the Central Nervous System (CNS)

>>14535457
Read the enneads by Plotinus

>>14536992
yes, it's literally true, and also useless, as it doesn't help you talk about your sensations. balance, as an experience, is radically different from a caress, for example.

>>14537047
If one can’t function without the other than how is one more important?

>>14535491
>Start with the Greeks
wat did he mean by this?

>>14537055
>balance, as an experience, is radically different from a caress, for example
Different examples of sensory input doesn’t mean the aren’t the same.

>>14535875
Thoughts doesn't exist if you don't write them down or communicate them with others though.

>>14537068
they are phenomenologically different and this warrants the introduction of new terms. that's how we got 20+ of them.

>>14537077
>this is what non-player characters actually believe

>>14537056
The point is that separating them is not really a thing. I guess this is all besides the point that sensory processing and interpretation primarily occurs in the brain, the cerebrum, what we colloquially call the brain, the big lump in the skull, not the spinal cord.

>>14536866
>Balance comes from touch.

>>14537088
He's right. If you only think but no action. It's fucking meaningless.

>>14537160
being "meaningless" and literally not existing are not the same.

>>14536630

>>14537078
>they are phenomenologically different and this warrants the introduction of new terms
They’re all subjective and inherently require zero objective definitions. It’s like trannies when they say the “feel” like a girl in a guys body.
>>14537105
Yet the brain can’t function without a spinal cord to deliver it sense data

>>14537106
what are internal fluids and pressure fluctuations

Consciousness is the complex set of processes by which the brain analyzes the world and makes decisions based on the information it has collected
That's my theory at least, I don't know if any literature backs up my theory.

>>14537315
Do rocks have consciousness?

>>14537293
subjective != idiosyncratic

>>14537293
The cerebrum actually can function without most of the spinal cord as long as the organs are working, and many senses go straight to the cerebrum, hearing and sight for example. You need your spinal cord to have touch in your lower body sure.

>>14537293
feels are reals and reals can only be known as feels so fuck you buddy.

>>14537329
Rocks don't have senses or a method of processing the external world and making decisions based on it.
So no.

>>14536291
>Your strong sense of materialism is causing you to throw out the deeper, broader, and more important component of life
Not him but I'm interested on what you were saying so, according to you, what's the most important component of life?
>The senses are the language of the world, but they are not the content
Then what's the content?

>>14537448
>feels are reals and reals can only be known as feels so fuck you buddy.
I feel like trans people are mentally ill :)

>>14537459
Rocks possess enough sense to not immediately dissipate, though. They detect heat and cold, wind and rain, don’t they?

>>14537480
said the anal-retentive

>>14537329
It does mean that the sense can’t be ontologically interpreted to an objective stimuli. This leaves the door wide open for what someone can “feel” and how we have gotten, culturally, to accepting multiple genders and men cutting off their dicks as normal.

>>14537486
No anon, rocks do not sense things.

>>14537496
Dilate and not an argument.

>>14537505
Rocks sense gravity, don’t they? Do rocks not sense the sun rising and the heat it produces on one half of their body?

>>14537360
It does mean that the sense can’t be ontologically interpreted to an objective stimuli. This leaves the door wide open for what someone can “feel” and how we have gotten, culturally, to accepting multiple genders and men cutting off their dicks as normal.

>>14535457
Sensation doesn't reduce to the five senses, sensation is everything sensible that happens to you, like hunger and sadness.

>>14537507
>2 hours spouting opinions and non-arguments
>muh NaA
cornered and exposed. have sex.

>>14537540
trannies are mentally ill, that’s just how I feel, and feels are real

>>14537525
you can argue against trannies in other ways. wtf does it even mean to "feel like a woman"?

>>14537515
Anon you need to go to the hospital and get checked for an aneurysm.

>>14537548
good for you bud. that's irrelevant to the topic at hand and this thread is a record of your deficiencies.
>that’s just how I feel, and feels are real
you fundamentally misunderstand what that expression means. read a book.

>>14537515
Literally no you fucking retard
It might "experience" those things, I suppose, but it cannot sense them
Just like if I removed your eyes you could no longer see.
Furthermore, senses are literally meaningless and can't exist without some way of making sense of them - i.e a brain
Stop being a tryhard retard and think about reality for a fucking second.

>>14537583
>your deficiencies
>you just fundamentally misunderstand
No, I really feel like trans people are mentally ill. The sense get from them is one of pure disgust. It’s just what my senses tell me, and I trust my senses.
>that’s irrelevant to the topic at hand
The topic at hand is trying to justify more senses beyond the standard, much like trannies trying to justify their mental illness as a spectrum of sexualities. Dilate.

>>14537587
>It might "experience" those things, I suppose, but it cannot sense them
What’s the difference between experience and senses? Doesn’t experience occur after our senses have been stimulated?

>>14535457
go read a phenomenology book then come back and make a thread

>>14535613
With the “feel” sense

>>14537576
>muh you’re mentally ill
Where’s the argument, faggot? Maybe you’re clinically retarded?

>>14537552
A woman is a generally defined category with the majority agreeing on a certain subset. This is then reflected back onto the form with which we expect the matter to compromise. Essentially: a majority agree on what behavior is woman like and how that behavior is achieved. Behavior is not just overt, it is also covert and physiological. A physiological woman behaves as a physiological woman. Her behavior produces chemicals particular to only the female sex, and her behavior allows her to bear children without extraneous intervention.

>>14537515
ROCKS ARE SENTIENT

>>14537681
What even is sentience?

>>14537698
You tell me.

>>14537704
Sentience is existing. The form is entirely different.

>>14537708
So when the idiotic anon repeats that capital is sentient it just mean that capital exist? Surely not.

>>14537721
Depends on how you define existence and what form of existence.

>>14537637
what I mean by experience in this context would be "a thing happened to the thing" as opposed to "a thing is aware that something happened to it and can interpret what that means, then potential take action based on the new information"
Experienced might not be the right word I'll admit.

>>14537631
those are the standard you illiterate fuck.

>>14537811
Well, that’s because you’re too attached to ego to admit experience that we have is just a complex form yet not a unique property to humanity.

>>14538100
No
I'll admit that many things are conscious under my definition
Animals are conscious under it
Hell, even computers can be considered conscious in some ways under my definition
But rocks are not. They do not have senses or ability to draw understanding from those senses.

>>14536866
>this retard
taste happens when your tongue touches chemicals. smell the same with nose. vision when light touches your eyes. hearing when waves touch your eardrums. you when I touch your mom unfortunately.
be grateful there are people willing to educate your chimp brain.

>>14538147
>They do not have senses or ability to draw understanding from those senses
Rocks don’t do this? As I believe, rocks do have the ability to sense, albeit it is not nearly as complex as humans.

>>14538227
>taste happens when your tongue touches...
Almost like it’s tactile
>vision when light touches
tactile
>hearing when waves touch
tactile

>>14535457
>bro human beings are just midless pleasure-seeking computers
>bro reality is just chemicals nothing matters
Fucking kill yourself then as it would bring me great pleasure beep boop

>>14535457
There's more than 5 senses. 7 including intuition and EMF.

>>14538747
>bro human beings are just midless pleasure-seeking computers
They are actually desire fulfilling machines*

>>14538444
In literally what way
Rocks are completely incapable of understanding anything at all

>>14535457
You are not retarded, but you are wrong. Start with the greeks.

>>14539068
What do they need to understand in order to survive? They are a rock, and most rocks do their job just fine without needing to much thinking. Really, I’m quite jealous of rocks.

>>14536096
Related to this, I'm reading Thinking Fast and Slow now by Kahneman, but I've heard that it's based on psychological research that isn't being replicated. Any sources that explain this? Preferably scientific literature, but books are fine too.

>>14537064
Aristotle believes we have a moral sense.

>>14535457
I literally cannot smell.

>>14540155
Usually such things are covered in book reviews, just Google it, I am sure you will be able to find something

>>14535457
Retarded? Without a doubt.

>>14536291
>The senses are the language of the world, but they are not the content.
This was what I was looking for, it really helped me wrap my head around the thoughts I've been having. Thanks

>>14535457
Looks to me like someone didn't start with the greeks
Read sophists specifically

>>14540175
What the fuck is smell anyways? Something about it differs from hearing but it still feels close to it, but they are two completely different sensations I don't understand

>>14535457
>He can't just close his eyes and think
>He can't ponder on an abstract level
Never gonna make it

>>14535457
See: the five psycho-physical aggregates

>>14535656
No but you can tell someone is not philisophically read by the fact that he's talking about an entire domain of philosophy and psychology as though he's the first to come up with the idea.

>>14540155
https://replicationindex.com/2017/02/02/reconstruction-of-a-train-wreck-how-priming-research-went-of-the-rails/
go to the section How Replicable are the Social Priming Studies in “Thinking Fast and Slow”?
i think it's primarily this specific chapter though

>>14537303
Not sense of touch, fucking obviously.
If they are, then hearing and taste are touch, as well are arguably the other senses as well.

>>14537515
Being able to sense properties is very different from having those properties act on you, you goof.

>>14541590
>you can tell someone is not philisophically read by the fact that he's talking about an entire domain of philosophy and psychology as though he's the first to come up with the idea.

This is true but we shouldn't be mean to these people

>>14541710
I don't think the post being referred to was being mean >>14535493
Nor was I intending to come off as mean in my posts.

>>14541710
Being critical isn't necessarily mean. Grow some thicker skin breh.

>>14537168
Let's say you had a thought that carried absolutely no consequences on your actions. Not even a god or supercomputer could have read the thought off your face.
Was that thought real?
Here the right response is "Such a thought can't exist, everything carries at least some consequence."
Sounds acceptable? If so, consider this: If all of your thoughts are expressed in your actions then your actions express all of your thoughts. Therefore your actions are your thoughts.

That's a big "then" and "therefore" and I suggest dwelling on them a while. Before you say thoughts don't map injectively on actions I'll say: yes, they do.

>>14537515
Also, this guy is close to breaking through. Keep going bud

>>14541615
Ok thanks anon.

>>14540226
Will take a look at reviews

Bump for intellectual discourse

>>14535457
>deep thots

>>14541537
Not really my point, I meant that life is how we react to our senses and the only thing that will happen when you improve your life is that you will see, hear and touch other things

>>14544093
Oh? Really? So nothing on the internet can ever affect anything ever you fucking asshole

>>14544473
What are you on about?

>>14537077
Do we have actual machines posting on /lit/? How can anyone make a statement like this?

>>14544802
The internet cannot be seen, it cannot be heard, it cannot be touched, it cannot be smelled, it cannot be whatevered
you cant even pee on it
but look at that it affected you
it improved people's lives
all without ever being touched felt smelt seen or seenmeltouched
weird
maybe im suggesting you're wrong
so working backwards from that we come across life equaling our senses
but there are some things that our senses cannot sense
and, I shit you not, colors we cant see
but they are a part of life too
So youre double wrong

it might not matter at all but there are A LOT of people doing things right now, moving building running dying shitting all over the place, so not only does your theory of life not include them, you jerk
but it also does not include data constructs whose functions are totally incomprehensible to humans much like the thoughts of an animal
and since those are tools we use to do everything in the world I find your philosophy on life incredibly shallow and demented to include (You) ANYWHERE near a cosmic significance

Which, you must know, is not the case.

>>14545627
You see it on your screen and hear it in your headphones

>>14542444
>Let's say you had a thought that carried absolutely no consequences on your actions
How do you measure consequence? Causality is not a fundamental phenomenon in the world like an electric charge that could be even in theory measured precisely. I would say your argument goes off the rails already here.

>Was that thought real?
Many things are real while having no consequence. A billiard ball that hits no other balls.

>If all of your thoughts are expressed in your actions then your actions express all of your thoughts. Therefore your actions are your thoughts.
As I don't agree with the earlier points, I don't agree with this either. But even if all thoughts were expressed in your actions, the two are not the same. "being expressed in" and "being" are not the same. Anyone should understand this.

>>14546437
You see protocols displaying text. You're telling me that my BROWSER is the INTERNET?
Nigger, respect me just a tiny bit more and I won't vomit on you everytime I get the chance.