/lit/ - Literature

>>14536743
Liveblog, sincerely

In 100 years nobody is going to remember the 2010s by the school shootings or terrorism or refugee crises. They will remember it as a decade of unparalleled technological advancement, when something as incredible and life-changing as the smart phone became boring in comparison. When 20th century science fiction largely became reality. When gene editing became incredibly easy and paved the way for realistic paths to kill cancer forever and stop aging and link our brains directly to computers. When war was such a scarce thing that wherever it broke out the entire world turned to help and try to fix it. When people finally got their act together and started the process back towards being an inter-planetary species. When all of these things were married with an economic system that encouraged them.
Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia.

>>14536846
The perspectives of unborn historians have no bearing on the suffering of people in the now. In your attempt to be mature and farsighted, you have lost the empathy and understanding to realize the modern era is genuinely a crisis.

Alternatively, THANKS STEVEN PINKER! WOW!! GOLD??

>>14536949
yes, curing cancer forever is just pragmatic. Enumerate the crises faced by modern man and I will give you a list of reasons why they've been solved and or are in the process of being solved and we're just finalizing the details. No, liberalism is not a crisis.

>>14536743
Religion. Quran, Bible, Gita, think for yourself. It’s not cope it’s the truth. You can give up on this life or you can choose to be a force for good. What do you think feels right?

>>14536846
>muh technological developments

>>14536979
Cancer hasn't been cured yet. Targeted gene therapy will do it eventually so I see your point there but...
- climate change
- economic inequality (the issue is largely relative but relative disparities are important for social cohesion and individual satisfaction in society)
- increasing work hours, decreasing social time without a corresponding increase in wealth
- increasing rates of mental illness, suicide, social disconnection among young people
- increasing rates of loneliness and decreasing rates of relationships, sexual intercourse, and even friendship among young people
- increasing ability to control people via the internet (tracking, propaganda, etc.)
- disillusionment and unrest related to current political climate

Those are a few things. I'm genuinely interested in this now.

>>14537000
Did you miss the part where there was exactly 1 multi-national war on the planet earth in the entire decade of 2010-2019?

>>14536743
The Foundation for Exploration

>>14537044
>Cancer hasn't been cured yet
Stopped reading right here.

>>14536846
based and truthpilled

>>14537044
>cancer hasnt been cured yet
YEEEEESSS GOYY we better find ourselves a cure to cancer so we can keep you alive here longer in this purgatory/hell! better yet, lets find a cure to mortality heheheehhh am i right gooooy so you can stay here foreeeeeeeveeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr aahahahahaahahahahahaaa. stopped reading there by the way.
15Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.(the world here is creation after the fall and under the dominion of satan. it is creation no longer oriented toward god, but temporary and dominated by inordinate passions[lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."{jesus calls mammon/riches a master not because wealth is evil by nature, but because of the control it has over people}])For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.† 17And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

>>14537151
retard

>>14537044
Aside from climate change, every single one of these is a specific symptom of American individualism.

>>14537268
how so?

>>14537074
t. Sean Goonan

>>14537341
Agreed, but also could be characterized as neoliberalism or capitalism as a whole.The causality makes the issues no less real.

>>14536846
Do you seriously think all the eventual 10 billion people in the world will be able to live like Americans?
We are entering technocratic slavery

>>14536846
Uneducated and poorly read opinion. My primary philosophical interest is in the long view and I can tell you that the 2010s will be remembered as the decade everything started to unravel.

>>14537451
no, but OP takes the American lifestyle for granted and thinks petty social issues that will be gone as soon as the next generation supplants his are signifying descent into a dystopian world.

>>14537461
said every pessimist ever

>>14536846
Then the Sub Saharan African population will explode and the planet will revert back to the Stone Age... and we won’t remember anything.

>>14537518
malthusian catastrophe is a spook

>>14536846
I somewhat agree with this. We're basically in an equivalent of the gilded age in regard to technology, and all of the problems were probably pale compared to everything else (unless it's purposely skewed in future history text books). People comparing today to the turbulent late 60s is just attempting to give their lives meaning by drawing parallels to a more memorable time.

>>14538106
The gilded age was followed by a world war and the depression

>>14536743
Why do we live in a dystopia? Because you're poor and worthless?

>>14538250
Every good age was followed by a bad age, that's how the progression of time works

>>14536846
Holy fuck, R*ddit is leaking badly.

>>14536743
Books for sulking in that or fixing it?

>>14538299
Can you honestly, unironically, with a straight face say that we're living in the best times ever for mankind?

>>14538337
Why is it bad?

>>14538361
Don't you feel it? Can't you feel it?

>>14538332
What's onions is pretending we live in a fucking "dystopia" because you don't get whatever you want you fucking faggot

>>14536743
What are you talking about you dumb shit?
Cut out all the media bs and populist scaremongering and you have never had it easier, or had as much potential for leisure, distraction, learning, self-expression, self-creation
And all all you dumb fucks do every fucking waking moment is cry about how bad things are?
Really?
Fucking really?

>>14538368
No. I work a job where I'm paid over six figures to do nothing and every night I get home and raw my girlfriend and play video games. I literally get everything I want.

>>14538374
>>14538369

>population more drugged than ever
>suicide at the highest point ever, even among the young
>broken families, single parent homes almost the norm
>home ownership falling hard, renting more and more common
>people have fewer and fewer friends
>sex crisis, less men and women in satisfying relationships, drastic increase of porn usage
>birth rate collapse of natives, ethnic replacement with never before seen speed

I shouldn't be surprised that Bügmen can't into anything that's not deracinated, hyper-capitalistic materialism.

>>14538392
What? I'm in a very satisfying relationship and almost never watch porn. Speak for yourself. If you make good decisions you can make it quite nice in today's culture.

>>14538417
Doubt.sh

Well adjusted people generally don't post here

>>14538417
Even if things are as you say and you're an exception, do you think the same can be said about others?

>>14538434
I've been here since 2006 it's the only website where I can say what I'm thinking, not everyone is a broken manchild
>>14538445
For the most part, yes. I've met many people who live fulfilling lives. All you need to do is not give into base impulse and act erratically. Life is hard for the dumbs because we've evolved to not need them anymore so they're dying off naturally.

>>14538374
The very fact that you have listed money, sex and entertainment as key constituents of your well being proves the other anon right. I urge you to reassess your entire life. Being so oblivious to the broader horizon od actual values (far from the vulgar pleasures such as mass media and intercourse) should be classified as a mental condition.

>>14536743
>dystopia
>when i have access to any book i could ever want to read within 30 seconds
>have decent to excellent healthcare
>can learn shit for a better job for free on the internet and can make stupidly good money with a few years of study and practice
>can buy anything i want from any country on earth while sitting at home
>have a warm apartment with indoor plumbing, never even seen a bug in it
>have all the food i can eat and more
>dislike my job but it isn't actually difficult, never work more than 40 hours a week
>can speak with like-minded individuals on any subject i want on the internet
>travel has never been cheaper or easier
what dystopia? honestly. what do you want? a gf? i'm in a solid long-term relationship, maybe you just suck. a career that stacks cash? go study. a sense of community? go outside of your basement, they have that in neighborhoods across every city and town in the country. hate your country? never been easier to move to a new one. hate your town? family? move. never speak to them again. never been easier. want a dog? we got every breed you can think of for sale locally. reason for living? pick something, we've got every cause you want. go study literature, classical music, fine art, go join an activist group, go join a sports club, volunteer, whatever you want.

exactly what is bad about our situation? there has NEVER been a better time to be alive than right now.

>>14538474
You forgot my relationship with my woman and my parents. My life isn't an emotionally barren wasteland where I sustain myself through base instincts, it's a series of carefully cultivated relationships that have paid off big time. If you want to read into it because I mentioned my comforts then that's your issue, not mine.

>>14536743
the bible. nothing short of a miracle can save us at this point. its like that point in risk when one guy just traded in his cards and took over 90% of the board and all you have left is 3 territories in australia. you draft your 3 guys and put them into one last doomed stronghold, then the other guy drafts his 40 guys and annihilates your bloodline. Satan just made Alexander look like a bitch.

Not one mention of Better Angels of our Nature? Seriously?

>>14538495
>You forgot
On the contrary, *you* forgot to mention them, nitwitted savage.

>>14536846
Detecting 0% satire and 100% ASS.
Is this possible? Have we reached the other side of dystopia?

Regardless of where we are, anyone that thinks we are going in a good direction is either
a. at the end of their life
b. benefiting from the suffering of others
Denying that there is a spiritual crisis in the world is downright evil

>>14536846
2010s is when we learned the earth is flat and all levels of reality are mediated.

>>14538477
It must be nice to be a well adjusted successful person who can somehow find good in our consumerist, hedonistic society.

>>14538598
2019 was unironically the year i learned my name. i was pronouncing it wring the whole fucking time baka.

>>14536846
>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia.

>>14538563
>I'm in a very satisfying relationship
Life is about building relationships and keeping them, just as it always has been. Your friends and family will make your life infinitely better. I read plenty and my work is intellectually stimulating to the point where it doesn't even feel like work.

I can't express all the things I'm grateful for here, so yes I do miss some things but it's fucking embarrassing all the people in our society who think we live in a dystopia because they can't afford the new iPhone.

>>14536743
Definitely "Industrial Society and Its Future"

But I would just get the book "Technological Slavery" since it contains that manifesto and many more essays expounding on the ideas.

>>14536743
anything by Buddha

>>14538613
this.

>>14538495
I don't even know what to tell you. Once again, if you cannot name anything more fundamental to your life apart from relationships with others and money, your situation is dire. The question at hand is that of the meaning of life (i.e. the spiritual crisis of the contemporary era), a question you (and many others) are unable to even vaguely understand, because going out with friends, doing good at work, etc. is the summit of your needs. The question simply does not resonate with you, but what I am writing is pointless. You cannot explain what colours are to a blind man.

>>14536743
only later should you read "Anti-Tech Revolution"

>>14538609
>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538624
lol are you really abstracting this enough to feel righteous about yourself? I'll never understand you people. You live in a world full of wonder, technology and information and you shit all over it because YOU can't find meaning. This isn't about society, it's about you. You can't even admit that, you project onto me.

>>14537063
Did you miss the part where we replaced war with the ability to precisely wipe anyone the neoliberal apparatus of western government disapproves of off the face of the earth before they even realize we want to? The part where we so rigidly established a globalist order that any alternative to it as seen as fantasty? The part where multi-national war became obsolete because the aristocratic class finally detached itself from the entire concept of nations and sloughed them off like nothing?

>>14538638
>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538664
>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538642
Not him.

"You live in a world full of wonder, technology and information", you say. This right here proves that you, no offense, have as much insight into the zeitgeist as a 5 year-old. I don't know what to say to you if you don't feel the currents of our age intuitively even with this much light shone on it.

>>14538470
>Life is hard for the dumbs because we've evolved to not need them anymore so they're dying off naturally.
Except average IQ has been decreasing for a century in western nations, and now Asians have higher average IQs, and this trend only looks to be accelerating

>>14538673
>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14536846
You forgot to add: the mass destruction of the biosphere, the mental health epidemic, the rise of a multipolar world, the decline of the American superpower, the consolidation of control by concentrated groups of people alienated from the perspectives of the common masses, all notwithstanding of course. If you measure progress by living longer lives (though, not necessarily healthy, given how obesity sedentary lifestyles are commonplace), then we are in the utopia already. At this point, I would have to ask what is even the advantage of linking ourselves to computers. The smartphone is already something we would be better off without.

>Books for coping with the fact that we all already live in dystopia, and all signs say things are only going to get considerably worse with each passing year?

>>14538683
>>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538698
perfect
>>14538679
Because asians cheat on IQ tests, I'm not joking.
>>14538678
If you discount everything I say then it will be hard for you to find comfort in anything I say.

>>14536846
This is the typical "standard of living" myth.

The way this works is, our industrial system defines a higher standard of living as being only that which it can provide, and then it "discovers" that this is increasing as the system grows grows.

To many, many people, a good standard of living is not measured in planes, cars, microwaves, video games, iphones, shopping malls, fancy houses etc., it is rather measured in wide open spaces, vast wild nature, clear flowing streams, wild plants and animals and ABOVE ALL freedom. Note the meaningless freedom that exists in modern society--the freedom to fritter away your time seeking pleasures or hobbies--by real freedom in its most elemental form: the freedom to determine the practical, life-and-death circumstances of ones life, and to have serious goals to work toward. This kind of freedom is not possible in an industrial society.

People are miserable now because they live like caged animals, slaves in the giant machine-like social organism that is the techno-industrial system.

>>14538609
>>14538638
>>14538664
>>14538673
>>14538683
Based

>>14538470
>All you need to do is not give into base impulse and act erratically. Life is hard for the dumbs because we've evolved to not need them anymore so they're dying off naturally.

I unironically envy people to whom fate has been kind and generous enough to let them develop such a double-digit IQ worldview without these delusions collapsing under the weight of their own absurdity the moment they engage with reality. Dream on until you can, anon.

>>14538638
>0.0006% of Americans die a painless euphoric death every year, this is why we live in the worst timeline

>>14538624
>the meaning of life (i.e. the spiritual crisis of the contemporary era)

>>14538664
>>14538683
see>>14538713

>>14538711
I administer IQ tests. China's statistics are inflated for sure. Japan, not really. Singapore, no. The west's average IQ is in decline and Asian IQ is increasing, and that's without a doubt. The modern west is dysgenic.

>>14538719
OK whatever you say but I tested at 150

>This is the typical "standard of living" myth.
>The way this works is, our industrial system defines a higher standard of living as being only that which it can provide, and then it "discovers" that this is increasing as the system grows grows.
>To many, many people, a good standard of living is not measured in planes, cars, microwaves, video games, iphones, shopping malls, fancy houses etc., it is rather measured in wide open spaces, vast wild nature, clear flowing streams, wild plants and animals and ABOVE ALL freedom. Note the meaningless freedom that exists in modern society--the freedom to fritter away your time seeking pleasures or hobbies--by real freedom in its most elemental form: the freedom to determine the practical, life-and-death circumstances of ones life, and to have serious goals to work toward. This kind of freedom is not possible in an industrial society.
>People are miserable now because they live like caged animals, slaves in the giant machine-like social organism that is the techno-industrial system.

>>14538709
>>>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538726
Sure you did.

>>14538624
You would be dissatisfied in any era, anon. Friendship, family, and fulfilling work have been what the vast majority of people have desired basically since those concepts had any meaning. I think people who say things are the best they've ever been are fooling themselves, but we do not (yet) live in a dystopia

>>14538720
>Th-there's nothing wrong with opioid abuse, really it's great we should all OD, it is not at all symptomatic of anything except feeling really good
I hope this is bait holy shit

>>14538728

He was anything but a basedboy.

>>14538729
boy i sure am glad i have muh ipad!

>>14538730
>people can't be smart when I say they're dumb

>>14538729
>>>>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538728

>>14538746
We are here to eat, shit and fuck. Anything beyond that is idealist cringe and coping for your relative lack of social adjustment.

>>14538771
r-selected human in a nutshell.

>>14538771
>Anything beyond that is idealist
Yes

>>14538771
Are you a literal nigger?

>>14538766
>>>>>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538770

>>14538731
I find it very difficult to express myself in English but I will give it a go. Fundamentally, the whole thing boils down to the following: the solution to the problem of existence (ie. the meaning of life) is solved either by naivety/stupidity (=the inability to comprehend the question) or faith (=finding solace in a grand ideal, such as faith). But in our age, the second possibility is entirely ruled out. There are no more metanarratives. In fact, there is no more society as a coherent whole. Therefore you, as an individual, are left to your own devices to instill meaning into your own existence, which is an impossible task.

>>14538795
The "such as faith" was meant to be "such as religion"

>>14538778
>>14538782
>>14538783
Life has no meaning, and insisting it has is probably indicative of mental illness. Learn to deal with it or you too might start sending bombs to random people like your tranny hero.

>>14538785
>>>>>>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538809
>>>>>>>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538815
>>>>>>>>>>>>Only retarded, myopic doomers lack the awareness and perspective of the world at large to consider the state of the world to have descended into dystopia

>>14538795
I don't think this is entirely correct. Th one metanarrative that has displaced all others--but which is not easy to see because it surrounds us so much--is the metanarrative of "progress."

techno-utopia, singularity, "progress," all to varying degrees are part of the same metanarrative that we can call (for lack of a better term) "Technianity"

It has serious believers: people who work in the tech industry and scientific fields and people who are obsessed with gadgets and tech toys. They hope for the promise of everlasting life. heaven=techno utopia where they can live forever with tech.

It has priests and prophets: tech ceos, scientists, thought leaders on TED etc.

so yeah, all the old myths have simply been replaced with a new and more powerful myth. the myth of progress.

>>14538795
This is the pinnacle of based.

>The Foundation for Exploration, the most important book pertaining to the modern dystopia, is in this thread and it's not even being discussed.

>>14538795
Technianity has become the world's uniform faith. it is everywhere now because of a uniform, global set of technologies, and the fact that it is useful for the growth of technology. the old faiths were displaced because they were not as useful--from a natural selection point of view--to the organizations around the world who needed to grow tech for their survival. in a nutshell, this is why we have a new uniform global faith in "progress."

>>14538795
>>14538795
>>14538795
>>14538795
>>14538795
>>14538795

>>14538795
also, I think you're wrong.

faith alone is not enough to live a fulfilling life.

If you lived in a prison, but had faith, you would still not live as fulfilling a life as if you were free and also had faith. so faith is not enough. In the old times of faith, the people who had the faith (and were happier) also had many more things that helped them be happy. Most important of all, they had much more freedom. The kind of freedom that actually counts.

>>14538849

lmao'ing at anyone ITT who unironically thinks sad American millennials are the herald of the apocalypse. These graphs are literally nothing more than watching one generation slowly die and they will change again as your generation dies.

>>14538823
>>14538815
>>14538809
>>14538785
>>14538766
>>14538729
>>14538709
>>14538683
>>14538673
>>14538664
>>14538638
>>14538609
welp, this settles it, as soon as the old man i support heals enough to take of himself, i'm going fucking postal. if my fbi agent is reading this, you can either come get me before or after i do it, i don't care as long as i end up dead or in jail.

>>14538877
eww. jensen = loserfag

>>14538849
Science can never replace religion or any other spiritual ideal because science, in its own terms, cannot answer the question of its own purpose, let alone the meaning of human existence.
>>14538870
I have never claimed that being immersed in a metanarrative alone is sufficient , but I do claim that it is a necessary precondition of a fulfilled life.

>>14538885
A language older than words was really good

>>14538881
Don't throw your life away Anon, we need to survive through this downturn, not submit to it. Anti-consumption, anti-screentime, pro-community, pro-friendship. For all our flaws, you can't starve in America, and there are incredible natural sites to set your eyeballs on.

>>14537478
>your lifestyle will get worse and many trends such as increased government control over life will continue but that doesn't mean we're entering into a distopia because people won't study history and also muh technology
>also the coming generations will definitely reverse the social ills most contributing to unhappiness because i say so

>>14538885
>A culture that values production over life values the wrong things, because it will produce things at the expense of living beings, human or otherwise.

>Derrick Jensen, A Language Older Than Words

>When dams were erected on the Columbia, salmon battered themselves against the concrete, trying to return home. I expect no less from us. We too must hurl ourselves against and through the literal and metaphorical concrete that contains and constrains us, that keeps us from talking about what is most important to us, that keeps us from living the way our bones know we can, that bars us from our home. It only takes one person to bring down a dam.

>Derrick Jensen, A Language Older Than Words

ITT: Pearl-clutching soicunts making mountains out of molehills

>>14538907
>Science can never replace religion or any other spiritual ideal because science, in its own terms, cannot answer the question of its own purpose, let alone the meaning of human existence.

Yes, of course. Science is a practice, a discipline. But the PURSUIT of science presupposes a faith in it as a discipline. Namely, a faith that BY PURSUING science, the world will lead to a better and better world which is utopian in comparison. Notice how I did not say the faith was science, I said the faith was "progress" or, alternatively, "Technianity"

>I have never claimed that being immersed in a metanarrative alone is sufficient , but I do claim that it is a necessary precondition of a fulfilled life.

This is just plain wrong. There are a number of cultures, mostly hunter-gatherer, in the anthropological record that do not have a "metanarrative" or a "faith" in the sense of a grand mythology. Just to take one example, the Pirahã tribe of the Amazon were effectively athiests. The linguist Daniel Everett who lived with them described them as the ultimate empiricists. It is well documented how incredibly rich, happy, and satisfied they are compared to modern and civilized people:

"The Pirahãs show no evidence of depression, chronic fatigue, extreme anxiety, panic attacks, or other psychological ailments common in many industrialized societies." p. 303

"I have never heard a Pirahã say that he or she is worried. In fact, so far as I can tell, the Pirahãs have no word for worry in their language. One group of visitors to the Pirahãs, psychologists from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Brain and Cognitive Science Department, commented that the Pirahãs appeared to be the happiest people they had ever seen." p. 305

-Daniel Everett, "Don't Sleep There Are Snakes" (2009)

The same can be said for a number of other cultures including the MButi of the Congo rainforests.

>>14538713
great post, nailed it

>>14538935
>A language older than words was really good

not rational enough. jensen better get on board with forming an anti-tech revolutionary vangaurd or else he's just providing therapy to people.

>>14538881
fucking based

>>14538948
>>14538959
lame. anti-tech poetry. attracts leftists and lazies and dreamers.

jensen is an obstacle toward forming an effective revolutionary anti-tech movement.

You idiots are so fucking dramatic. The fact that your one argument is "people spend less time together because of the internet" just reinforces the myopic doomer stereotype. Any society where loneliness is the chiefest of worries is in luck because it's easy to cure. Of course once we fix loneliness you'll find some other tiny thing to pin the shitty life you've made for yourself on society at large. You will never be satisfied. The world will ALWAYS be ending. Society is perpetually on the brink of collapse in your mind.

>>14539081
>You idiots are so fucking dramatic. The fact that your one argument is "people spend less time together because of the internet" just reinforces the myopic doomer stereotype. Any society where loneliness is the chiefest of worries is in luck because it's easy to cure. Of course once we fix loneliness you'll find some other tiny thing to pin the shitty life you've made for yourself on society at large. You will never be satisfied. The world will ALWAYS be ending. Society is perpetually on the brink of collapse in your mind.

>>14539081
If that's all you picked up from this then you are beyond saving, r-selected vermin.

>>14539027
>>14539016
Usually I hate the guy who says shit like, "If you hate technology so much then why are you browsing the internet with your phone?" but seriously how can you talk about anti-tech vanguards while posting on a website that embodies all the alienating aspects of technology?

>>14538935
we can't fucking win. i've been thinking about this for years. there is no way out by our own hands, we need nothing less than an act of God. and i can't wait any longer i'm done.

>>14539119
right. we will "fix" loneliness like we have "solved" all our other problems. Like "fixing" depression with happy pills. Everything is just a technical problem with a technical solution. it's so simple!

>>14539336
don't assume it's the only thing I do.

Can't a guy have some fun every once an a while? and anyway debate helps to refine thinking and hone arguments.

>>14537451
Graph double speak much?

>>14536743
Bible got me through it. Nietzsche brought me down by making me think we were riding on the apocalypse. Jesus brought me back up by convincing me it's all cyclical, and this is just another dark age with the same sort of advantages and disadvantages as last time.

>>14536846
>When gene editing became incredibly easy and paved the way for realistic paths to kill cancer forever and stop aging and link our brains directly to computers. When war was such a scarce thing that wherever it broke out the entire world turned to help and try to fix it. When people finally got their act together and started the process back towards being an inter-planetary species. When all of these things were married with an economic system that encouraged them.
This just sounds dystopian anon. If our brains are linked to computers, how long till the government can read our minds?
Is gene altering wrong? Youre playing God by doing it. Animal human hybrids? Sounds like an abomination
And one world? You may be ruled by beauraucrats who have never set foot in your country, yet they decide your life for you
Longer life? Oh boy better raise that retirement age
No, anon the 10s are just the beginning of the end. I look forward to Jesus' return, things are only going to get worse from here on

>>14539620
The Bible makes me wonder, if God destroyed nearly all humanity with a flood, how bad was the pre flood world? To further that, the Lord is to return and destroy the world with fire, does that mean an equivalent degredation in the world as the antediluvian one? How far are we from it? How bad will it get? The mind creates a lot of horrible things when considering it

>>14539659
Oh, the Old Testament is retarded. I was taking about the New Testament, and Jesus' message specifically. I don't see much value in the myths of a bunch of Semitic people who were marginally different from their neighbors, regardless of what slave morality they might or might not have invented.

>>14536743
Try coping with these nuts

>>14539671
>Oh, the Old Testament is retarded. I was taking about the New Testament, and Jesus' message specifically
I consider both Old and New to be important
Old contains the prophecies of Jesus' birth

>>14539685
I understand where your coming from, but I think that a more casual relationship with the dogma is healthier than actual religiosity. If you're looking to chase yourself up your own asshole in search of enlightenment, acid is a quicker route to the same knowledge. If you want something that will actually help you live, Jesus is all you need.

>>14536743
>Books for coping with the fact that we all already live in dystopia, and all signs say things are only going to get considerably worse with each passing year?
The founding documents of the United States, Plato, Aristotle, and the Holy Bible of course. And also:

>TC 7-22.7 - Non-commissioned Officers Guide
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN20340_TC%207-22x7%20FINAL%20WEB.pdf

>FM 3-22.9 - Rifle Marksmanship
https://usacac.army.mil/sites/default/files/misc/doctrine/CDG/cdg_resources/manuals/fm/fm3_22x9.pdf

>TC 3-21.76 - Ranger Handbook
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN3039_TC%203-21x76%20FINAL%20WEB.pdf

>>14539639
this

>>14539345
Please don't. These are the days that must happen to you.

>>14536743
When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?
By George Carlin

>>14536846
>dude... I fucking LOVE science

>>14536743
go take your prozac

>>14536743
Anything individualist desu. The world at large doesn't give a shit about you and you shouldn't give a shit about it. Focus on improving your own lot, and try to transcend the dystopia.

>>14539345
Don't kill yourself or hurt innocent people. There are ways to live outside of the system of it pains you so much, and lots of people who will understand how you feel. Moving to a developing country is another option. There are many. You can work on a farm or a fishing boat away from it all

https://wwoof.net/

>>14541871
I see a lot of posts on this board from people looking to move to a remote area, homestead, or otherwise withdraw from society. People on this board should unironically start a commune in the Western US.

>>14541887
>Go to join the /lit/ commune
>Bring my wife
>She spends every day getting called a roastie by fat autists

>>14542267
but thats based?

>>14542267
That would be an issue. I've wanted to homestead for a long time, and given it a lot of thought. One would have to make sure the group is harmonious; there might be issues if there are singles and couples, but if the group was large enough and composed of people of different genders, things would balance out. Vetting members would be important, but very difficult to do if the group was truly democratic and egalitarian.

>>14536743

>>14539639
work sets you free

>>14539620
Someone didn't understand Nietzsche or the Bible

>>14537461
just because you went through your adolescence in the 2010s doesn't mean it's important

>>14542733
that only applies if you're working for nazis, which unfortunately we are not

>>14542945
>he doesn't know

>>14538720
I'm sure their parents and friends will be delighted to hear that, thanks anon

Kaliyuga. :(

>>14539081
>what is climate change

>>14538713

That pic is comfy

>>14536743
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius

>>14538713
yeah okay ted

Read Olympiodorus [the Younger] and how he dealt with it.
Was far fucking worse for him and his bros.
>Had the writing of Plato not checked my impulse, I would have loosened by now the grievous, baneful bond of life.
>So too if they accuse me, asking why I am teaching the youth, will they ever be persuaded
that I do this in their interests, in order that they may become men of true quality (καλοὶ
κἀγαθοί)? So under such a constitution, one must create a fortress (τειχίον) for oneself, and
live quietly (ἡσυχάζειν) within it all the time.
Feels bad man

>>14538434
projecting

>>14538881
indescribably based

>>14541887
tfw not lucky enough to be burger

>>14541871
extremely gay, anon. the people supporting the system are hardly innocent and no one wants to go live with retarded niggers.

>>14542398
at that point just start a town and elect a sheriff

>>14536846
>In 100 years nobody is going to remember the 2010s by the school shootings or terrorism or refugee crises. They will remember it as a decade of unparalleled technological advancement

Nice rhetoric. I assume you are referring to how it will be recorded in history. in 100 years few will remember the 2010s at all. You act as if the people that experienced it will suddenly change their opinion you fucking sophist.

>>14539081
I have no problems with loneliness but IQ barrier to conversation is a real phenomenon and plummeting standards in pretty much everything isn't helping people that were born before IQs started dropping in the 90s.

>>14536743
ITT: retards living miserable depressing lives because they're retards and can't see a way out believe the whole world is going to shit because they're retarded and have no outside perspective. Get a grip, retards

>>14543491
always somebody else's fault lol

>>14543503
>expecting someone on an Estonian Spittoon Enthusiast Forum to take charge of his life or take any responsibility

Kek, I'm only here to laugh at fat autists

>>14541871
>>14539767
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DO SOMETHING CRAZY!!!! YOU HAVE TO SUFFER AND DIE LIKE A DOG!!!!

>>14543529
why not just look in a mirror than?

>>14538477
This, people want them to spoonfeed them causes and purposes when it never has been easier to self-define.

I'm convinced the modern trend of idiots on the global scale agitating for more authoritarianism stems from option paralysis, and if they were just self-aware enough to know or decide what they actually want, it's theirs to have.

>all pro industry arguments are about consuming and easiness
When did you realize wall-e was a horror movie about the end game of the techno-industrial society?

>>14545087
when i watched it.

>>14545087
>When did you realize wall-e was a horror movie about the end game of the techno-industrial society
when I saw the preview

>>14545087
when andrew and pete came to me with the script. i knew right then that it was a hit.

>>14536846
Fucking based.

>>14536743

This book is the cure to dystopia.

>>14536846

Imagine believing this dogshit.

>They're going to say that they were the first signs of impending doom and the collapse of the American society. Unironically.
>Boomers also love to blame abstractions couched in the most brainless and nonsensical paradigms instead of addressing the actual issues at stake head on. Hence why mass shootings become heavily partisan debates about "gun control" "violent video games/media" "mental healthcare" instead of frank discussions of the fact that American society is soulless, dysfunctional and cruel towards young outsiders despite its glorification of individuality.
>As pointed out by an anon in another thread, the wave of mass shootings in the last 20 odd years are emblematic of the fundamental breakdown in American social cohesion and are a sure a sign as any that this country is moribund.

That's how people will remember the early 21st Century. An era of rampant decadence that saw Western civilizations(most notably the United States) begin to socially and politically disintegrate.

>>14538106
>People comparing today to the turbulent late 60s is just attempting to give their lives meaning by drawing parallels to a more memorable time.

We're living in the prelude to WWI desu. America is the Russian Empire, a decaying world power that's basically one severe-enough crisis away from having a civil war. China is Imperial Germany, a rising industrial power feared by everyone else. Russia is Austro-Hungary, a broken shell of its former self attempting to regain its former glory.

>>14538713
Where does the food come from?

10,000 years of domestication. This is our enemy.

>>14544170
Looks like someone's triggered

>>14546128
is it actually worth a read if i agree with the message?

>>14546183
hunting, fishing, gathering, gardening

>>14546338
When's the last time you did all hat?

>>14538374
>six figure salary
>works
>only sex and media outside of work
>not a dystopia

>>14546370
not him but peasants in the middle ages worked for 10 hours a week and did not starve. they lived in small villages, their fields produced a surplus to feed the 200-300 people in their town and there were dedicated craftsmen and specialty shops (baker, butcher, cheesemaker, brewer, fishmonger, smith)

people were objectively happier and better fed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVcey0Ng-w

>>14546272
considering you already agree, no. it's not well written.

>>14538713
This.

>>14546535
>people were objectively happier and better fed.
ok anon

>>14546535
Yes, people were better fed and happier in the period famous for its wars, famines and pandemics.

>>14548243
'period'

What defines a 'period'
Is ww1 and ww2 not within the modern 'period'?

>>14536846
And you consider urself well educated enough to make any prediction on the evolution of the entire fucking human race? Yeah sure man

>>14548243
>happier in the period famous for its wars
yes, actually

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6506148#backward-citations

>>14548243
>What matters is my current completely misinformed impression of a period encompassing nearly a thousand years built by a misremembered history class I had 12 years ago and pop culture, not anything actually exploring what life was like in a serious manner

>>14546338
It is not hard to do any of this stuff. Gathering especially is easy, I bet there are many edible plant growing right outside your house

>>14536743
The Dao Dejing. Seriously, you have no idea what a real dystopia is like. The Dao Dejing is not just a cutesy philosophical poem. It's a piece written during a time of hell-on-earth in China that's designed to teach you how to cultivate wellness of mind and personal success when living in a horror show. Find the way, anon.

>>14539659
we already kill about 1/4 of every child being born annually across the world. the scale of our wars has to be helping to replace the sheer brutality of those times. mass interlinked society is making up for with numbers what we're lacking in "quality" of suffering. i'd say we're getting pretty damn close, the west gave birth to a quality of evil we haven't had in a while (id imagine)

ive thought about this a lot too because the limited amount of information given about the antediluvian period makes it very interesting as a mystery to me. you have to remember that demons and incarnate evil never went anywhere, it just hid from the afterglow of Christ's birth, death and resurrection, and in a mere 2000 years we're offering up far more children to baal than before.

>>14543256
>So too if they accuse me, asking why I am teaching the youth, will they ever be persuaded
that I do this in their interests, in order that they may become men of true quality
a noble and respectable cause, not OP but I will give this a read thanks anon.
I wish some day I can do the same for others but for now I'm that youth

>>14548902
What's it like living in a fantasy novel?

>>14548243
Do you know how many wars have happened since the industrial revolution?

>>14536743
Eumeswil

>>14538477
Everything you’ve mentioned only reinforces OP’s point. Yes, you’re free to do or pursue all of things, but analyze them. What do they have in common? Every single one of them is hyper-individual and strictly material. This may come as a shock to you, but humans generally live short lives and are somewhat powerless at best, alienated at worst on their own and material provision can only get you so far. Sure, you’re completely free to pursue all of things that don’t really matter and only those things that don’t really matter. Every single remedy you is lacking a higher element. They make work for some, or even most, people, but they are undoubtedly large swaths or the population who that doesn’t work for. If you’re only concerned with consumption and pleasure, then you’re fine. What about those who in their ultimate freedom to consume and seek pleasure, lose themselves in drugs, alcohol, etc? What about those people for whom consumption and pleasure alone isn’t satisfying? We live in a tyranny of the lowest common denominator, which driven by material provision and sensual indulgence, but even the biggest fool of them all can recognize that is not satisfying for everyone.

>>14549051
>le puts the bible in the fiction section
I get it, you're not a Christian.

>>14536846
I'M A 24 YEAR OLD VIRGIN I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR TECHNOLOGY

>>14538720
an opiod overdose is neither painless or euphoric fyi. It´s quite a horrible way to go out.

>>14549552
How so?

>>14538332
Fucking clown world lol

>>14549571
Not that guy, but my brother died from overdose related complications. The night he collapsed he had blood and foam pouring from his mouth as his lungs were hemorrhaging. He spent the next two weeks hospitalized in pure agony before dying.

>>14549749
I'm sorry anon, that sounds awful

>>14549749
that's pretty unusual for an overdose
It's usually cardiac arrest or respiratory failure

>>14546535
The vast majority of people in the middle ages ate porridge, not bread, and couldn't own horses because they essentially ate human food (oats). A strict diet of boiled grains with meat once a year at a festival where an animal can be slaughtered and eaten in a single day is not "better fed". Bread didn't become feasible for peasantry until the 16th century. Don't get your information from Youtube videos. I've personally dug up enough medieval skeletons to ensure you they were not healthy or happy people, even the rich ones.

>>14549495
There's a difference between being Christian and sincerely wondering about antediluvian earth as if it's a historical fact and not a metaphor

>>14538332
This is just unreal. Physiognomy doesn't lie.

>>14549352
Blessed post.

>>14539659
I think its implied demons were literally walking the earth and fucking human women.

The book of enoch goes into detail of those times (its not canon but still interesting)

>>14549352
>>14550234

BASED. Today we have MEANINGLESS freedoms. Not the kind of freedoms that matter. The kind of freedom that matters is not possible for the individual in a techno-industrial society.

"Modern society is in certain respects extremely permissive. In
matters that are irrelevant to the functioning of the system we can generally
do what we please. We can believe in any religion we like (as long as it
does not encourage behavior that is dangerous to the system). We can go
to bed with anyone we like (as long as we practice “safe sex”). We can do
anything we like as long as it is unimportant. But in all important matters the
system tends increasingly to regulate our behavior."

...

" “Today,” you write, “one can… adopt whatever beliefs or lifestyle
one wants. One can also easily travel, experiencing other cultures….”
But to what end? What, in practical terms, does one accomplish
by changing one’s beliefs or lifestyle, or by experiencing other cultures?
Essentially nothing—except whatever fun one gets from it. People don’t need
only fun, they need PURPOSEFUL work, and they need to have control not only
over the pleasure-oriented aspects of their lives but over the serious, practical,
purposeful, life-and-death aspects. That kind of control is not possible
in modern society because we are all at the mercy of large organizations.
Up to a point, having fun is good for you. But it’s not an adequate substitute
for serious, purposeful activity. For lack of this kind of activity people in our
society get bored. They try to relieve their boredom by having fun. They seek
new kicks, new thrills, new adventures. They masturbate their emotions by
experimenting with new religions, new art-forms, travel, new cultures, new
philosophies, new technologies. But still they are never satisfied, they always
want more, because all of these activities are purposeless. People don’t realize
that what they really lack is serious, practical, purposeful work—work that is
under their own control and is directed to the satisfaction of their own most
essential, practical needs."

--Kaczynski, Technological Slavery, Revised edition (2019)

>>14538720
how out of touch could you possibly be? you have to ask yourself how miserable, depressed, and sad are people today that they are doing all these drugs, and consider all of the people who take them and are addicted not just the deaths. This sort of mental misery and depression is absent in primitive societies.

"The Pirahãs show no evidence of depression, chronic fatigue, extreme anxiety, panic attacks, or other psychological ailments common in many industrialized societies." p. 303

"I have never heard a Pirahã say that he or she is worried. In fact, so far as I can tell, the Pirahãs have no word for worry in their language. One group of visitors to the Pirahãs, psychologists from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Brain and Cognitive Science Department, commented that the Pirahãs appeared to be the happiest people they had ever seen." p. 305

-Daniel Everett, "Don't Sleep There Are Snakes" (2009)

Here we found a few Snake Indians comprising 6 men 7 women and 8 or
10 children who were the only Inhabitants of this lonely and secluded spot.
They were all neatly clothed in dressed deer and Sheep skins of the best
quality and seemed to be perfectly contented and happy. …I almost wished
I could spend the remainder of my days in a place like this where happiness
and contentment seemed to reign in wild romantic splendor….

-Osborne Russell, "Journal of a Trapper" (1965) pp. 26-27

The Mbuti "were a people
who had found in the forest something that made their life more than
just worth living, something that made it, with all its hardships and problems
and tragedies, a wonderful thing full of joy and happiness and free
of care.”

-Colin Turnbull "Forest People" (1962) p. 26

one could go on and on and on...

>>14548815
u r completely deluded.

>>14549963
>I've personally dug up enough medieval skeletons to ensure you they were not healthy or happy people, even the rich ones.

Ok, what fandom is more cringe then kaczynski redditors?

>>14549963
>AND FURTHERMORE, THEY DIDN'T EBIN HAB IPADS!!!!!! HOW DID THEY NOT KILL THEMSELFS!?!?!?!?!

>>14551020

>>14537151
Truth and based
The cure for (bad) cancer is actually achieved by removing things that cause cancer. Obviously a middle age woman getting breast cancer because of plastic and estrogen toxins sucks because it cuts their life in half, but living forever in this mortal realm? Disgusting. So we must rid this planet of all its filthy toxins and go forward into the light, clean.

>>14549352
>hyper individual
>strictly material
as opposed to the literal herding of people and so-called "immaterial" nonsense of the past 2000 years.

yeah, the hedonism can get very excessive, but come the fuck on brother, there's so much that everyone is doing that isn't mere hedonism.

>>14551020
>gets history lessons entirely from videos others have uploaded to YouTube
>tweets basedjak images at people
Impossible to make up

>>14551083
Most of the economy is either direct to consumer hedonism or logistical support for the former
What is both materialistic and non-hedonistic?

>>14536846
What have we really invented in the last 20 years besides social media?

>>14538664
>what are interest rates

>>14550754
No, I'm right. I pick and eat wild plants all the time

>>14546535
They mindless proles of the might’ve been (and I agree probably were) happier than the mindless proles of today. But they weren’t better fed, we don’t have famines anymore (beyond countries that are still living like peasants on subsistence agriculture), and have access to an extremely wide variety of food, people who do not eat well or healthily are doing so from choice, it’s easy to learn to cook properly and it’s cheap to buy vegetables and meat. people die of obesity because of personal (or parental) failure not because they are force-fed crap. Most people would be happier then, but the knowledge/understanding and opportunities available to you and I make the modern world better for people like us, the modern world gave me access to resources and knowledge to improve myself (in health, skills, fitness, etc.) and so I am happy.The problem is the ignorance of the masses as they don’t use the technology and knowledge available to them or positive purposes. The significant problems of the modern world are not technological they are societal relating to what we put emphasis of importance on, as well as social manipulation by certain groups.
Life for most was better then, but it could be even better now if people would only seize what opportunities we have to create a better self and a better future.

>>14551454
cringe. you realize the earth is irreversibly polluted now, right? almost all salt now has microplastic particles in it because its harvested from the ocean. we've destroyed/depleted half of the topsoil layer in the last 150 years. we don't even have forests anymore because the colonists destroyed them all and now we literally farm wood, shitty, fast-growing pine, mostly. clean water is almost impossible to find due to acid rain and chemicals leeching into the water table.
you thought you made an insightful/original post, but really you're just an ill-informed cuck. go look up what an old growth forest is and how it works.
>b-but me can go to store an buy lots of food, me living in golden age!
go look up what kind of shit the chicken/cow you just bought at the supermarket has been pumped with. you think that spinach you just bought has anywhere near the magnesium content of medieval spinach? you think the sprayed crops with pesticide in 1100AD? you are such a faggot.

>>14551837
Not to mention all the species that will die over the next hundred years due to island ecosystems

>>14551919
and the fish, i almost forget about the fish. basically anything that comes out of the ocean is completely fucked. hell, even a river in my area got infested with this invasive water chestnut plant and they sprayed the entire thing with herbicide.

>>14536949
Oh no, brown people are crying on television, this is clearly the end times and the world is going to end, how tragic.

Fuck off.

>>14538660
>Did you miss the part where we replaced war with the ability to precisely wipe anyone the neoliberal apparatus of western government disapproves of off the face of the earth before they even realize we want to?

Are you referring to the genocidal shitbag and all-around cancerous human who perpetrated multiple crimes against humanity and was responsible for a large amount of destabilization of the middle east, Solemani?

>>14536846
Imagine being this fucking retarded

>>14552026
He's 90% right, fuck off libtard.

>>14551837
>you think that spinach you just bought has anywhere near the magnesium content of medieval spinach?
I don't see why it wouldn't, or how you could know

>>14552025
Are you pretending you knew his name a month ago?

>>14552025
>Are you referring to the genocidal shitbag and all-around cancerous human who perpetrated multiple crimes against humanity and was responsible for a large amount of destabilization of the middle east
you just described basically every world leader.

>>14551310
Unironically I believe that. But you're still massively deluded.

>>14552026
kek. exactly. this is the true effect of propaganda on the average suckers mind. there really needs to be a study of the amount of pro-tech and pro-progress propaganda that invested companies and organizations put out. then there is the education system. you are literally bombarded with it ever waking moment.

>>14552320
imagine unironically writing this post. Not commenting on the obvious delusion of thinking technology and progress are corporate conspiracies, I think the average person is fairly pessimistic about the state of the world.

>>14538713
this is unironically why minecraft is so popular

>>14536743
Ok Ok. You asked for books for "coping." If your aim is just to "cope" and not to actually do anything about the situation, then don't bother reading Kaczynski. It would just be wasted on you.

Maybe try reading some religious stuff. Or Marxist stuff. With Marx--and all it's various interpretations/offshoots--you can have the relatively comfy notion that a better world is just beyond the horizon and it is possible after all to rationally predict and control the development of technology.

>>14552340
>obvious delusion of thinking technology and progress are corporate conspiracies
oh shit you're right. there's no way companies who make money by selling technology would ever conspire to sell more technology. that would be insane.

>>14552340
who said it is a "corporate" conspiracy? If you'd like to interpret it that way fine, but then it is a very simple conspiracy of self interest, no less complicated than basic market-driven forces.

It has more to do with forces of competition among self-propagating systems. Those organizations that are better at conditioning people to accept the premises of technological growth are better at conditioning people to think and act in the most efficient ways in a technological society than organizations that are less efficient at this kind of conditioning. In this way, these attitudes evolve organically.

>>14552357
this.

>>14552340
Another example: Those school systems with curriculums that are less enthusiastic about the technological lifestyle and "progress" than other school systems are out-competed via natural selection. They don't produce the kids that are as enthusiastic and motivated toward working on and promoting tech or tech related industries than other schools. Parents who want their children to have the best "job" prospects gear their kids to the schools that therefore imbue kids with the beliefs and attitudes that are most beneficial to technological growth. And so school systems evolve organically this way in a technological environment. In this way, there are literally millions of subtle and not so subtle conditioning and propaganda in textbooks and in lesson plans that promote the basic premises of technological growth as unquestionably good... pictures of Einstein on the wall..."women in tech".... etc. etc.

>>14536846
>In 100 years nobody is going to remember the 2010s by the school shootings or terrorism or refugee crises
Horrible, History eager to repeat itself again.

>>14536846
Cringe, in the 90s everyone was utopian about the internet, then a few decades passed and the internet is mostly just another machine further atomizing everyone with the promise of novel instant access pleasure. Same thing with phones, same thing with electric cars, computers in your brain and gene editing.

>>14538815
>10 item scale

>>14551837
> the earth is irreversibly polluted now
No it isn’t
t. Biologist
The damage done by humans is heavily sensationalised by pop-“scientists”, you sound like the kind of person who listens to former Vice Presidents and little Scandinavian girls instead of actual experts
>clean water is almost impossible to find due to acid rain and chemicals leeching into the water table.
As opposed to less developed places where the water contains parasites, or the easy ability for us to filter water
>go look up what kind of shit the chicken/cow you just bought at the supermarket has been pumped with.
I don’t buy food at the super market, I go to farmers markets and local butchers. You’re laziness to buy from better sources doesn’t reflect on everyone else
>you think that spinach you just bought has anywhere near the magnesium content of medieval spinach?
>it doesn’t because I say so with literally no evidence
>b-but me can go to store an buy lots of food, me living in golden age!
I said there were significant problems with the modern world but a medieval peasant did not have a better diet than me if they were shorter and had the chance of dying from starvation. The positive traits offered by our technology is the information and resources available to us, giving up genuine progress for comfort because you aren’t willing to try to improve the way that technology is used is extremely pathetic
>muh chemicals that I don’t actually understand
You sound like a fucking suburban mother anyway

>>14553611
lol, you're such a low test retard.

>>14553611
A "biologist" from 1970 wouldn't think asbestos was a problem. There are tards on both sides but trust me when I say you are one