/lit/ - Literature

i feel like we're kindof already in that, it's just not super mainstream because culture doesnt work like that anymore

>>14504829
Did anyone read Tao Lin's book on psychedelics and McKenna? Was it any good? Surprised it never got much burn on here

>>14505009
Maybe, but I think it wont be until psychedelics are legal to the same scale as marijuana before we start really seeing progress in that direction. I'm thinking there will be a figure with similar pop following as someone like Peterson, who will write a new book on the psychedelic experience in the current technological era.

>>14505312
>I'm thinking there will be a figure with similar pop following as someone like Peterson, who will write a new book on the psychedelic experience in the current technological era
I could be that guy desu. might do it.

>>14504829
We'll see. The talent isn't really there. People forget that all of that the psychadellic forefathers were scholars of the english language. They took their professions seriously and studied writing and great works of literature. I certainly wouldn't read some shit by a zoomer or millenial with a 200 word vocabulary + thesaurus sloppily attempting to articulate the nuances of reality.

>>14505023
It angered me but I was overly well informed about psychedelics and exiting my acidhead stage. Laymen might like it.

>>14505023
Tao Lin is a terrible fucking author and as a rule we generally ignore him because he represents quite a bit that's wrong with publishing. Plus he used to shill here quite a bit. Ever been in an English class with an asian kid that has servicable-at-best prose and is obviously ESL? That's tao lin with all the obvious ESL shit edited out. His material is just as dry and uncreative and becomes de facto narcissism with hits vapidness.

I recommend High Weirdness and How to Change Your Mind. Both good recent books on modern psychedelia. Alas their authors are not as good as their precursors. Rose of Paracelsus is a curious work by Pickard of ninety nine percent of acid allegedely fame -- written from prison, kinda pretentious tho...

>>14504829
I don't think so; seemed like much of the movement was rooted in the mystique and taboo. The removal of those, will only serve to destroy it.

>>14506582
The movement will now be rooted in the idea of self-improvement, which is something that clicks with normies.

>>14504829
I haven't seen much proof that psychedelics are beneficial for us. Perhaps if you are extremely depressed they can lift you up, but let's not pretend that they are the true religion. MAYBE if we had a culture that knew how to use psychedelics we could greatly benefit from it. But I personally don't know anyone who sees them as anything more than fun. Drugs don't automatically make you grow as a person. I am MUCH more optimistic that Jungian religion can help at least some individuals.

>>14506604
I could see that.

>>14506605
You are right in that you need a culture that knows how to use them, but that's what is being created through McKenna, using a Jungian framework.
Yes, thinks like LSD and Psilocybin are often used for recreation, but the most important one is DMT and I've never heard of people doing DMT "for fun", most people consider it an innately spiritual experience.
I reccomended you do some research into the long-term effects of psychedelic drug use, especially recent research - theres a lot that indicates some seriously positive effects.

>>14506631
research doesn't convince me of anything, im skeptical towards all research claims. my anecdotal evidence is much more meaningful to me. Joe Rogan and every new-age hippy is enough to convince me that DMT isn't the solution to anything. I've had powerful experiences from the other drugs but I HIGHLY DOUBT that DMT is just going to be the one that magically opens my eyes. I am sure it would be a cool experience though.

>>14506669
If you don't trust research or the experiences of people like Joe Rogan, your best bet is probably to try DMT yourself.
Of course you should also look into the historical use of ayahausca and how it was used in a spiritual context.
I see no reason to doubt it's capabilities because every single account from anyone at all, regardless of biases, recalls it as an immensely powerful experience.

Literal CIA shill and part of the counter-initiation

>>14506698
Are you really telling me that DMT is so much different than LSD and mushrooms that they don't even compare? Do you consider LSD or mushrooms life changing compounds at all? I know that many individuals have sworn that LSD or mushrooms changed their life. But it didn't change mine. Are you praising DMT from your personal experiences or are you saying DMT will absolutely change everyone's life who tries it?

>>14506772
Unfortunately I'm yet to try DMT because it's very difficult to get ahold of in my country.
No, I'm not doubting the value of Shrooms or LSD, but my understanding is that DMT is on another level completely, and also has a somewhat established background in spiritual usage that is very small in shrooms and non-existent in LSD. Of course LSD and shrooms have the potential to change lives, I believe this has been proven demonstrably true, but DMT is supposedly a step up and has much more interesting psychological implications in terms of seeing/communicating with entities etc.

https://discord.gg/FFwRXKq

>>14504829
the only way to successfully foretell the future is to make it, motherfuck

>>14504829
Reminder that weed is a tool of the coper and psychedelics give the false sense of enlightenment to low-mid IQ retards

>>14506605
>Jungian religion
Lmao nibba pls -- psychology hardly works by itself, religion works less, and psychology is always more effective with drugs :^)

Agreed otherwise though. They're mostly just fun and slightly helpful for breaking out of patterns of negative thoughts and actions. Is that spiritual? Possibly, some people consider it so, but I also don't believe in any real "enlightenment" aside from the western scientific kinds so if your definition of enlightenment involves gods and magics then it's probably pretty dumb IMO.
>>14507088
Dmt is just like any other psychedelic. Ayahuasca feels like four aco. Breaking through while smoking is difficult and fades away as quickly as a dream upon awakening.


https://youtu.be/4ZfGR5K-uig

DUDE

No.
What's coming is the third true philosophistic (as opposed to the four sophistics).
Thales to Aristotle.
Plotinus to Damascius/or Eriugena (to be generous).
The Renaissance up to the early 20th century was a flood of attempts at reaching the heart of reality through only pure reason—but Intellect cannot take us further than Being, which is why it was all they kept talking about. Like Aristotle unable to see beyond Intellect, for what's beyond the One-Being is naturally beyond thought. They were, to put it bluntly, uninspired. And more like the Gnostics (or the middle platonists) than Philosophers: relentless sectarianism, each thinker concluding the guy before was wrong but this time we got it right, surely.
Which is why we cannot see the numerous infamous enlightenment thinkers as anything more than tools of logic and argument to improve our own reestablishing of the Schools.
And I'm not even going to talk about the "traditionalists" from the last two centuries, they're even worse than the philosophers.
The religions of the world are not equal. And the One is not, in any of his aspects, generic; except perhaps if we speak of the one of Soul and the one of the Demiurge—but these are echoes just as we are echoes of them.

Psychedelics are a cope for avoiding meditation, self improvement, and therapy

>>14509478
How will this new philosophy be like?

>>14509291
i didn't ask for your shitty opinion atheist midwit, shut the fuck up please. you don't know what religion is. KYS

In my personal sphere (live in large metropolitan East coast city) a surprising number of people that I know have done or are open to psychedelics. (I’m in uni)

>>14509492
psychedelics are a great tool, but can´t replace the things you said. But it really can help with your self improvement and realising thought patterns and such

>>14504829
Probably. I already know several normals who obsess over McKenna.

Imagine being such an ignorant retard that you think drugs can elevate you to a higher spiritual plane.

>>14509511
Like then but with the application of modern physics.

>>14506605
Psychedelics will be beneficial because they will outcompete phone addiction when legalized. The effects of increased in person socialization will be the positives, but nutters and grifters will continue to push a spiritual narrative. And they will be emboldened. Don't get me wrong, it will improve society's health, but only because the alternative drug is so harmful.

I dread the religious bullshit that will be attributed to psychedelics. We're suffering from addiction to screens as a society so anything that overthrows that tyrant will be suffused with undue worth.

>>14504829
This is going to happen, but unfortunately it will be in the service of capital, like anything else these days. Silicon valley is probably the biggest proponent of psychedelics right now.

As it becomes more mainstream, it will go through a dark age (like literacy in our current times). Several forces will emerge and either save or destroy humanity through control of culture, language and the minds of the plebs. A series of powerful acid trips with psychological torture can ruin someone forever. Not a toy. The internet itself is a psychedelic so we already see its affects. Will see explosive change if/when acid becomes mainstream again. Don't think it's powerful enough to develop into a well organized religion, but people might reconsider their own personal spirituality.

T. Pseud

>>14506717
This. There's a reason Asia is still a shithole 3000 years after enlightenment cults.

>>14510631

native american shamans, the greek mystery schools, and the hindus would all disagree

>>14510045
>wahhh bawww
Lol. Methinks the lady doth protest too much!

>>14511122
No evidence the greeks or hindus ever used psychedelics.

>>14510786
Read Anathem

>>14506582
Pot still has mystique even when legal.

The fact that some people can't handle their shit adds mystique...

>>14506605
Paul Stamets' observation is interesting
He points out that Europeans developed an alcoholic culture because it was used as a preservative, and it turned western culture into an unempathic and dissociative society.
Native Americans had relatively abundant access to psychedelics and their cultures are more spiritually oriented.

Industrialism basically happened because everyone was alcoholics that drank to tolerate their shitty lives, now we're just taking the dissociation to the next level with antidepressants.

I would rather everyone tripping balls and having to face reality than escaping from it

The problem is the masses don't read. I believe that new great awakening will take place in music. Truly the easiest way for awareness is to take people into their minds

>>14509478
The gnostics are trash. The mind and the body are one entity. Your thoughts are deeply influenced by your gut and your heart, which is why western thought for millennia has emphasized the sanctity of the body, and its resurrection in the hereafter.

>>14512097
>unempathic and dissociative society
Funny that it was the only one to develop the rights of man.

Reminder that by consuming drugs you are giving away money to criminals so they can turn you into a dependent consoomer

>>14504829
>is the next big thing a revival of [...] thought in the general population
No, because people en masse don’t think. A minority actually think.

Those who can really think often can see easily through DARE-style propaganda and may end up intelligently experimenting with psychedelic drugs at one time or another. They may admit they’ve experimented with it, but not necessarily take the route of becoming gurus or advocates of it. This includes people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc.

Then there’s reasonably intelligent thinkers and writers who experiment with the drugs AND talk about them, the insights to be gained from them. Huxley, Leary, McKenna, etc. This overlaps with its role in literature, like with the Beat writers, wacky postmodernists like Pynchon etc.

Then a larger class of semi-intelligent/artistic hippies, hipsters, bums and drifters attracted to the mystique of drug culture, not necessarily original thinkers or artists, although they may give themselves the airs of it.

But then the majority is still the great unwashed masses who mostly go, “What?!! If you do LSD more than 7 times, you’re clinically insane!!!”

Psychedelic drug use is seeping through Western culture. I don’t think there’ll be a big sweeping change to some shamanistic ethos as the 60s counterculture people fantasized about, but the avant-garde and intelligentsia are increasingly going to have to respond to the existence of psychedelics, whether they’re for, against, or indifferent to them, or maybe even amused by them.

>>14511122
Very ignorant post.

bro thats ted kascinsky

>>14504829
They'll run into the same roadblock that the hippies like McKenna did: lack of theology/teleology.
You end up with a bunch of aimless burnouts that have a commonality spirituality but with no common linguistics or forms to build on. Meanwhile since drugs are so tied up with consumerism, it'll forever be marred in modern materialism rather than be legitimate transcendent social movement.

Look at people like Joe Rogan you mentioned. People like him ensure to keep the R capitalized in Recreational Drugs. That's the limit of modern drugs and drug culture.

>>14513483
very astute post

>>14512195
or maybe rather it was the only one that had to spell them out so clearly, because they were so consistently being shit on. the vast majority of indigenous cultures also relied solely on oral tradition. there are plenty of accounts of the purported value systems practiced and professed by indigenous peoples, but none which were published in such a way as in the west where we had developed a relatively uniform writing and literacy (and later print press) system

>>14512097
very, very interesting perspective

>>14508073
I agree with this sentiment, except i would say that it can give a false sense of enlightenment to higher iq folks as well.

Robert Bly talks about this a little bit. He says something about the real effort of self improvement is in sort of "bucket work", digging our real selves out of the mire of our own accumulated complexes, traumas, erroneous assumptions, and bullshit. Any insights from any source may give some sense of direction (even if it might be distorted), but the real work of self realization takes a lot of hard work - something that no substance can provide.

Something that strikes me about the modern psychedelic *prophets* is they never quit talking up the virtually unlimited benefits of psychedelics, but they themselves (often) accomplished very little outside the sphere of promoting psychedelic use. If psychedelics are truly the key to everything, then why the fuck didn't they just railroad and pave over all the fucked up aspects of our society and fix everything, garnering the following of hippies and squares alike? (or at LEAST have made a larger dent in any sphere OUTSIDE talking up psychedelics)

That whole bullshit seems to be a self referential system that ultimately, for a large part, just feeds back into itself.

Not that I don't believe psychedelics don't have any benefit. They can be very useful, but also very detrimental to self realization in a very Seemingly innocuous way (which makes it all the more of a sticky situation).

Whatever the case, in my opinion, they certainly aren't the key to any major "lock" in our world at large. If it were, things would already have been much better by now. Ultimately, I think, the "key" is still the old time tested stuff- applying oneself deftly, commitment, compassion, intellectual integrity and curiosity, humility, work ethic, cooperation.

But it's very easy to take drugs and expect them to do all the work, and so not do any of the work. I've wasted years of my life like this. Would not recommend.

>>14514195
I think it probably might relate back to the archetypal struggle for a cure-all, panacea

I think it's probably wishful thinking that such a thing even could exist in the external world. This is where I think lies the archetypal attraction draw. The only true panacea is entirely internally (or inter-relationally) derived

I think the whole search for panacea is an indication of our own reluctance to take responsibility for the world and our own lives and exercise increasing levels of free will. Maybe the desire to return back to the care-free
and freedom-of-feeling ways of childhood.

Adulthood can provide such feelings only when responsibility is seen as equally important, and the other side of the coin. Responsibility claimed and lived out provides the security that allows for freedom to exist. Childhood only provided freedom because the adults in our lives were the responsible agents for us.

I think this might play out in other aspects of our culture's fascinations and ancient habits too

>>14509291
Bro...you just posted cringe

>>14512097
A Jew hates white people. I'm shocked, read about spiritual natives anon, they would peel peoples skin in layers like an onion and watch them die slowly of blood loss and sepsis from ant bites.

>>14514195
Psychedelics completely freeze social and technological development. The act like it's a cureall because they imagine a future where we regress and they are the priest-emperors of society. The same way progressives imagine a future where statues are built to them by the liberated masses who create new religions around their saviors. The expansion of the Roman empire destroyed the oral tradition of psychedelic drugs in Europe and Christianity filled the vacuum until it was displaced by it's own ideas better a developed through the natural sciences which were based on collective memory of nature worship without the natural drug to get there sans technology. Hunter gatherers really are happy and complete... also dumb as fuck and easy to control

>>14514361
nevertheless, there still may be some things inherent in hunter gatherer societies which we may have forgotten and lost, to our detriment, which could possibly be reintegrated someday

and I don't think that that megalomania you are talking about is as universal as one might imagine. There are surely shades of it. I think it'd be too biased of a perspective to say that's the only passion behind it. I think there is also some genuine goodwill mixed in, and the desire to live in a better world for everyone. But, it's the mixture of unconscious megalomania and genuine goodwill that ultimately makes it potentially so sticky and dead-end

>>14512015

the greeks drank a potion called 'kykeon' in the eleusian mysteries which had a psychoactive ergot as the ingredient, and lots of hindu sects smoked marijuana, used it as a topical paste

>>14514345
the west has had plennnnty of its own fascinations with torture

>>14506605
If you use psychedelics whilst you're extremely depressed the likelihood of you getting an absolute nightmare trip is very high.

>>14514361
>Psychedelics completely freeze social and technological development.

that's kind of completely false, though I marginally sympathize with some of your other sentiments.

ever heard of francis crick (discovered DNA)? steve jobs? modern silicon valley? I'm sure there are more examples.

also, "social development" can be construed in multiple ways. the 60s had plenty of "developments", not all of which that were positive. they still may have ultimately pinned a dream of a sense of achievable utopia to the wall in the west, which we are still struggling to manifest

I think ultimately psychedelics are a tool, with limited application, and some pitfalls. They are not The Answer.

>>14505334
Same anon. You wanna just split the book in 2 so we can share the workload? You can email your half to analdestroyer666@gmail.com

>>14504829
mckenna was a fucking hack

>>14514649

they're a tool in the same way that meditation, or philosophy, or a microscope is a tool

>>14514773
This

“Haha what if our hallucinations weren’t hallucinations though”

As an unassuming introverted law abiding male, how the fuck do I get some DMT?

>>14509291
>Dmt is just like any other psychedelic
lol, no it isn't
it's active by smoking, has MUCH more potent effects and more commonly has a feeling of some sort of beings there that don't really exist in the others in the same way, except maybe mushrooms in very very high doses but not the exact same

>Ayahuasca feels like four aco
kek, absolutely not
4-aco-dmt is almost identical to mushrooms, it's a derivative and prodrug of psilocin

ayahuasca is not even like the smoked dmt experience, it's unlike any of the other psychedelics in my opinion by far and its the only thing that has long lasting effects because of the MAOIs in the harmala alkaloids having an antidepressant-like effect

dmt and ayahuasca definitely seem like something else entirely compared to the other classic psychedelics and are preferable imo, more "spiritual"/therapeutic and alien
mushrooms come second

lsd and mescaline are more in your head, less visual, and feel less spiritual or like an "other" you have to submit to or that can teach you things, a little boring by comparison imo, always way too fucking long and hard on vasoconstriction of your blood vessels, a little speedy compared to the true tryptamines
they feel a little more empty

>>14504829
I think there is an abundance of good writing on psychedelics, but I think it's harder to become a standout public figure about it nowadays.
I'm pretty skeptical of McKenna though. Don't trust that lizard dimension shit

>>14515605
Ur just going to have to find a really cool dude

>>14515873
How do I find a really cool dude?

>>14514625
*wide lips together face* cringe my dude. The things you attribute to psychs were achieved through blood letting and demon summing/unsealing rituals. They lied about using psychs the same way Manson pretended to take lsd with his disciples.20th century technology comes from the demon world and it is given to people who make the burnt offering of flesh. How fucking normie are you? Magic was super mainstream and explained in the 1960s and all those tech nerds learn how to summon at burning. Man now were new generations are taught how to form the soul link and enslave their apparition it's a cottage industry you just have to sneak into the right tent on the day they all fly in and see it for yourself. All drugs do is weaken the will which is why they want you to take them want you become smooth brain and less dangerous to world order.

>>14514625
>ever heard of francis crick (discovered DNA)?
lol
francis crick did not discover DNA... it was discovered in the 1800s

but more importantly, neither f. crick nor james watson took LSD or were under the influence of LSD while deducing the molecular structure of DNA in the 1950s

LSD was an obscure compound only used by psychotherapists and a very very small number of people, as well as the american government during project mk-ultra/artichoke
it was not an available street drug until the 1960s, well after crick, watson, and wilkins won the nobel prize for their discovery of the double helix

kerry mullis, who discovered and won the nobel prize for PCR, however, WAS on LSD and directly credits the compound for that achievement, saying that without it he wouldn't have been able to come up with it

crick was into lsd much later on because he was very interested in consciousness and wrote many books on the subject
the whole thing about him seeing the double helix while on lsd in a vision ala kekule and benzene is complete bullshit though

i would like to try psychedelics but im terrified it would fuck me up from interactions with ssris and anticonvulsants, and more terrified of permanent brain fog or something

>>14516448
re the ssri's they will just highly diminish the effects and basically make you unable to trip

not 100% about the anticonvulsant interactions, it might be good for the ergot related compounds actually

you really really don't want to take ayahuasca though or syrian rue or dissociatives like ketamine

i think people are too afraid of the psychological issues, they can manifest symptoms that weren't present previously if you have a predisposition but actually with schizophrenics that take it they have good results, like the voices that say "we're gonna kill you and your whole family" "you're worthless", start saying positive things like "we love you, you're a good person, you're doing a great job" etc after taking psychedelics

also schizos probably have endogenously produced psychedelics in them naturally that are not in neurotypical people, like 5-meo-dmt, there is evidence of that

>>14516482
thanks for the info
im not schizo, im mainly concerned about fucking up mood regulation stuff
especially if i start to cycle while im on the substance. itd bad enough sober

>>14512097
fake news

>>14515605

read the dark net market bible, find a seller. get it mailed. read erowid so you know what you're doing.

>>14514195
i agree 100% - i wasted far too many years with this shit

>>14515605
you're not law abiding if you're breaking the law by purchasing/consuming a schedule 1 controlled substance

also if you can't figure it out yourself, don't do it dummy

>>14515873
dmt is rare as fuck, if you live in san francisco or austin or somewhere that's the only place it's really prevalent as a street drug
people don't want to go through the effort of extracting it because it simply isn't as profitable as meth, growing weed, or even mushrooms

>>14515605
Download dmt handbook from dmt nexus -- that will teach prep. Order root bark from bouncing bear.
>>14515678
>lol no it isn't
>except
>maybe
>etc
Whatever junkie. I've done ayahuasca tons. A hundred milligram plus dose of four aco is quite similar. Talking to aliens and stuff (protip: it's all in your head). Dmt resembles shrooms, but particularly that prodrug a lot, imo. The prodrug is hardly identical to shrooms. Anyway, try taking shrooms with a maoi if you don't believe me that they're similar.

>>14515851
Sadie Plant's book is good.

>>14517363
>tfw sold acid and dmt in atx in college
Good place. Don't move here tho. Too crowded.

>>14517451
>>14517451
>I've done ayahuasca tons
who cares, so have i, dozens of times
any retard can buy ayahuasca vine and mimosa, acacia, psychotria species on ebay and let some water simmer on your stove top

>A hundred milligram plus dose of four aco is quite similar
than what? the time frame is similar but not the visuals or feeling, it's identical to mushrooms
>Dmt resembles shrooms
they're different drugs, experimentally, have different effects, but yes they're just one oxygen and one hydrogen away
>particularly that prodrug a lot, imo. The prodrug is hardly identical to shrooms.
4-aco-dmt is a prodrug of psilocin (4-oh-dmt), it turns into psilocin, the active component in magic mushrooms, when ingested just as psilocybin does
it's the same effect, same drug, essentially
dmt whether smoked, oral, is completely different
>Anyway, try taking shrooms with a maoi if you don't believe me that they're similar
i have, many times
and with cannabis and other substances
harmine/harmaline potentiates other drugs, even taking it itself has its own effect
it's what makes the dmt orally active but also modulates the experience so it's different than when you're smoking pure dmt salts

>>14517563
>Good place. Don't move here tho. Too crowded.
I may have known you. I'm texan but I haven't lived in austin since 2013, that's how I know
plus texas has a LONG history of psychedelic culture
and lol, i am NOT moving back, it's even more filled with commies/trannies now, plus way too many californians