/lit/ - Literature

>>14468206
Iran should not be an Islamic nation. Why do all the intelligent persians move to america/france/germany?

>>14468219
> Why do all the intelligent persians move to america/france/germany
that applies to every ethnicity and race, if we're talking about actual legal immigration and not refuges and gibs immigrants

>>14468206
> Why is it so ignored
its not, everyone shills rumi, al ghazli etc etc

>>14468206
Anyone here actually read the Shahnameh?

>>14468219
Iran flourished in the Middle Ages in spite of, not because of Islam. When the Safavids doubled-down on Islam they totally extinguished any creative spirit the aryan Iranians had left. There’s a reason Iran hasn’t produced anything good since the Middle Ages. Early modern and modern Iran was and continues to be a shithole. See also the success of ethnic secular and Zoroastrian Iranians in the west and India as compared to the mediocrity of those who stayed behind in fundamentalist Iran.

>>14468297
I've read parts of it.

>>14468206
>Why is it so ignored and unfairly maligned?
(((because)))

>>14469029
Unironically this might be true. All the talk about diversifying philosophy only boils down to Chinese "philosophy". Persia had a rich philosophic tradition on par with both pre-Kantian western philosophy and Indian doctrines, but nobody ever talks about that. Why, really?

>>14469285
>but nobody ever talks about that. Why, really?
because Zoroastrianism was the first monotheism. Christianity, Islam, and Kikery are all second rate knockoffs of it. No one is allowed to bring up Zoroastrianism because it absolutely mogs Xtianity. If you compare the two, all of Xtian dogma is nothing but a hacked together compilation of nonsense out of an irrelevant backwater.

Ahura Mazda is a better god than y*w*h.
>>14468429
based and correct
>>14468297
Yes. It's similar to the Iliad in many regards, but is much more expansive in both time span and story scope. It's a fun read and I recommend it.
>>14468206
>Why is it so ignored and unfairly maligned?
Same reason the US is pushed into a fight with Iran. Iran happens to be one of the handful of nations who doesn't use a Rothschild owned banking system. Just like the other nations we went to war with and destroyed. What a coincidence.

Also, Arab swine burned all the old works when they looted and ransacked the fallen empire of Persia. We lost almost everything from classical era Persia.

>>14468206
We're not interested in being your friends, and the less you ZOGslaves know about Iran, the better. You have bigger problems anyways, like how Jews control much of the publishing industry.
>>14469616
You are a complete and idiotic Iranian filled with inferiority complex, trying to win the favor of Westerners, who are at present slaves of Jews, the way South Korea and Japan did. Those two countries are complete trash, slaves of ZOG and filled with inferiority complex and shallow games of saving face. You are not a real Iranian, just some kind of mutt causing tremendous damage.

>>14470335
Based Iranian

>>14468206
cant wait for black mothers to call their daughters shahnameh

>currently learning Persian so I can speak to Iranian friends, read ghazals and the Shahnameh, watch Kiarostomi, and in general be very very comfy.

Highly recommend taking the persiaboo pill.

>>14469285
>Persia had a rich philosophic tradition on par with both pre-Kantian western philosophy and Indian doctrines

Where to start with this? I don't understand the history of philosophy/religion in Persia. What are the earliest extant texts? How much has been lost? How much crazy Sassanian shit was there when there were all those Christians and Mithraists wandering around?

>>14468297
Me, it's a favourite

>>14468206
>unfairly maligned?
DUDE FUCK OFF BACK TO HELL

>>14472355
keep chugging propaganda like it's high fructose corn syrup, you infidel

>>14470335
>You are a complete and idiotic Iranian
>my persian history knowledge is so impressive people think I'm Iranian
Thanks, fren

>>14470800
As I said before, Persian philosophy is something like a combination of, or a bridge between, esoteric eastern thought and pre-Kantian western philosophy, so I would recommend them if you are interested in those.

If you want an introduction, Henry Corbin's works are respected both in Iran and in the west. You could check out his History of Islamic Philosophy for an introduction. There is also an excellent article on SEP called "Mysticism in Arabic and Islamic Philosophy" (though most of the philosophy discussed is neither Arabic nor exclusively Islamic).

If you want to read in canonical chart-like order:
Philosophy (as defined by the Greeks) started in Persia with Alfarabi discovering Plato and Aristotle (a background in Greek philosophy is essential to understanding Persian phil):
Alfarabi (Commentary on Aristotle's Metaphysics) -> Avicenna (The Metaphysics of Healing) -> Alghazali (The Revival of the Religious Sciences, Incoherence of the Philosophers)

After Alghazali's critique of philosophy some successors decided to go full esoteric while the others tried to combine deductive philosophy with mysticism.
The mystics (who were poets as well):
Sanai (Hadiqat al Haqiqa) -> Attar (The Conference of the Birds) -> Rumi (Masnavi and the prose work Fihi Ma Fihi) -> Hafez (Divan)
The philosophers:
Suhrawardi (Philosophy of Light) -> Mir Damad (Book of the Divine Embers (Kitab Qabasat al-Ilahiyah) ) -> Mulla Sadra (Four Journeys of the Soul is his main work but isn't translated. You could read The Metaphysical Penetrations and The Elixirs of the Gnostics instead)

The case with Suhrawardi is very interesting. He tried to combine ancient Zoroastrian teachings with the deductive way of philosophy of Aristotle and Platonic ideas and his own mystic visions. Mulla Sadra is usually regarded as the greatest Persian philosopher, and as far as I know no great Persian philosophic work was written after him, but Hadi Sabzavari wrote some great commentaries on Sadra's works that are worth reading.

Two non-Persian philosophers who might be said to belong on this list are Averroes and Ibn Arabi. Averroes wasn't that influential in the east, but more so on Aquinas and the west, so I wouldn't include him. But Ibn Arabi had great influence on Mulla Sadra and is very well deserves a place before him.


Cont.

>>14473975
Cont.

The mystic poets could be read on their own but knowing the philosophic background could help in understanding them. But if you want to read only the key important philosophical works, read Avicenna -> Suhrawardi -> Mulla Sadra.

If you are too lazy and can't be bothered with all these and want to only read one thing, read Sabzavari's Sharh al-manzumah (the translated copy is named The Metaphysics of Sabzavari). It's a summary of Sadra's Transcendent Illuminationism.

Since these works are all written either in Persian or Arabic, if anyone wants to learn the languages, Wheeler Thackston has excellent introductions on them.

If you want to study ancient Persian thought (which was important to Suhrawardi and Sadra as well) the Gathas are said to be the only extant works of Zarathustra himself.

Also, if any interested anon had some free time, it would be great if he could make a chart out of this post.

Just because it's old doesn't make it good folks, they fucking lost to Bedouin camel raiders.

>>14468206
Omar Rubbayiat was Persian. Original chroniclers of 1001 Nights were too.

>>14473996
That was due a betrayal from the Byzantines such as Heraclius. Near the end, Heraclius sided with the Rashidun. Anyways, you lost to kikes, so you have no place to insult us. Fuck off.

>>14474048
>sided with the Rashidun
because they believed they could carve up the country as "fellow people of the book" or something like that.*

>>14474048
Are you the Zoroastrian anon who recommended the Gathas? If so, I would recommend you read the philosophical works I wrote about above.

bump

>>14469285
We know next to nothing about Zoroastrianism nor the vast amounts of Persian philosophical traditions that once existed. Islamisation saw to the desturction of EVERYTHING that was Persia, every written word that was not Islamic was destroyed.

>>14474508
>We know next to nothing about Zoroastrianism nor the vast amounts of Persian philosophical traditions that once existed.
>>14473975 is a guide to the Persian philosophical tradition. Now you know.
>Islamisation saw to the desturction of EVERYTHING that was Persia, every written word that was not Islamic was destroyed.
Not true, not everything. And besides, plenty of philosophical works were written after the Arab invasion.

>>14469616
Real talk lads, /pol/ memes aside, is it actually true that (((they))) hate Iran because it won’t adopt international banking? The current regime doesn’t seem any worse than the Saudis. If anything, it’s better. Nobody can explain why we are supposed to hate them.

>>14474508
The Gathas still survived, and they're largely the words of Zarathustra. Is it okay if you mutt slaves of Jews stop acting like you know everything?

>>14468206
Cyclonopedia

>>14473978
Good posts. Thanks.

>>14468206
>The works of Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism had a significant influence on Greek philosophy and Roman philosophy. Several ancient Greek writers such as Eudoxus of Cnidus and Latin writers such as Pliny the Elder praised Zoroastrian philosophy as "the most famous and most useful". Plato learnt of Zoroastrian philosophy through Eudoxus and incorporated much of it into his own Platonic realism. In the 3rd century BC, however, Colotes accused Plato's The Republic of plagiarizing parts of Zoroaster's On Nature, such as the Myth of Er.
All of Western Philosophy is Iranian.

>>14473978
What about the Pre-Islamic period? I know Zarathustra, Mani and Mazdak, but was there anyone else? Did anything come out of the Khurramites or the Parsis?

>>14468239
No, Iran is a Persian country that used to have a culture entirely separate from the Arabic/Islamic culture. Much of the non-Islamic Zoroastrian or Athiest/Agnostic population of the country has fled after Islamic rule.

>>14468206
Hafez, Attar.

>>14473975
Seconding this post.

>>14474723
They BTFO the Saudis, Israelis and the CIA. Of course we’re supposed to hate them. They may not be fully based but they’re definitely partially based.

You can be Persian or Islamic but not both

>>14475373
It's no different than saying you can be European or Christian but not both. It's nonsense.
>>14475254
>Persian country
This is a made up Latin word referring to Iranians of one province, Pars. There were other equally important Iranic groups like Sogdians, Medes, and much more. The word Iran has been in use since Sassanian empire.
Iranians have their own distinct identity, even if they're Muslim.