/lit/ - Literature

if you can't refute it, then by what grounds can you call it shallow? surely such judgements should follow from investigation, not precede it.

Stop watching after 34 seconds and that video is based

>>14464021
You can't claim that life has no meaning and yet at the same time find meaning in being happy or fulfilled or bringing joy etc...

>>14464028
This. I see posts like this on here all the time: people looking for an excuse to validate feelings, rather than explore them rationally. OP will just regurgitate authors tbat conform to his frail emotions.

I see no reason that life has to have meaning. So good luck refuting the nihilism
However, optimism? If your friend is brain damaged, you just can't help him. There's no reason to be optimistic about anything. But it's better for him that he believes in optimism. No reason to ruin someones happiness so you can feel smarter. Even if it's true.

>>14464021
I'm not watching the video but nihilism can be refuted like this:
Passive Nihilism- your friend is in a state of apathy on the world/existence and won't do anything to change it.
Active Nihilism- Your friend is dismayed by the world and his existence and wants to do something about it.

I imagine optimistic nihilism is similar or the same as active nihilism. It's an oxymoron.

Your friend is just larping as a depressed fool since it's cool to play the victim.

Probe to find something he truly cares about so you can point it out. Call someone or him a nigger and see if he gets angry. If he does, he cares about racism which is something he cares about.

If he isn't being a larper and is genuinely depressed show him to the active vs passive argument and then try to unravel his problems and to dismiss the world and everything else and focus on his own problems one by one.

Also point out that Nietzsche was trying to fight Nihilism and didn't want to promote it, it is something he termed and wanted to combat. He would have been appalled to know that is what the world remembers him for.

>>14464055
There's no reason to feel pessimistic about anything, either. Truth may not conform to what the world ought to be, but so what? We don't live by and for pure reason alone.

>>14464028
The best debaters I've ever seen were one at an atheist forum who hadn't read any of neither Plato nor Kant, thought that Carnap and Alan Sokal had ended philosophy, and being credulous to Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. he, was just good at debate. If it wasn't for ESL, he could have won in front of Ben Shapiro.

You had better not think like that.

>>14464087
>Camus

>>14464021
I mean it's literally either some version of what this video offers or metaphysical god, and I don't even know which to choose.

just watch Neil de Grasse tyson videos and post on Reddit until the end of fucking time

Shit like this is produced by bourgeois think tanks to make the middle class complacent while the rich steals all their fucking money and uses literal slaves in the third world to make their trendy glitter iPhone cases.

Go sit in a park with your sweetie! (DON'T HAVE ONE, ALL SOCIAL RELATIONS HAVE DEGENERATED TO ORGYPORGY PROLEFEED NIGHTMARE)

Take Facebook tweet selfies of your stupid bullshit! (ENDLESSLY FOCUS ON DAY-TO-DAY PETTY SOCIALIZING AND LASCHIAN NARCISSISTIC GRANDSTANDING ON SOCIAL MEDIA, ALL HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS HAVE BEEN REDUCED TO LITERALLY PREHISTORICAL LEVELS OF HYPERGAMY IN A WHIRLING GYRE OF MEANINGLESS TINDER FACEFUCKING FOR THE SELECT FEW AND ELLIOT RODGER RESENTMENT FOR THE REST)

Consume trendy garbage and eat cool food :P!!!! (LITERALLY CHINESE NIGGER SLAVES MADE YOUR STUPID BULLSHIT "THINKGEEK.COM" BAUBLES AND DESIGNER STRETCHPANTS, IN ENDLESS WASTELANDS THAT RESEMBLE THE FACTORIES OF INDUSTRIAL ENGLAND MARX WROTE ABOUT IN COMPLETE HORROR)

These people are trying to thought control you into passively reclining and injecting low-effort Mythbusters reddit filth into your brain and ignoring the dull ache of meaninglessness and consumerist overstimulation from inhaling high fructose corn syrup and salt all fucking day

"Optimistic nihilism" is what rich faggots pay slightly less rich faggots to convince lumpenproles to think they're experiencing when they work in a cubicle for 45 years to finance a lifestyle of watching proles modify Nerf guns and design "man caves". Turn off the Youtube and develop some tastes and moral preferences taht an algorithm designed by Amazon can't predict and use to predict your entire life befoer you've evn lived it you peice of fucking shit

>>14464098
why not

>>14464097
Debating =! philosophy
Similar and include the same skills but not the same.

>>14464119
Holy based I'm trellising my watermelon plants in the morning after waking up and reading scripture

What or why does your friend live for OP? Nihilism itself isn't a problem, it's the things that people use it as an excuse for.

>>14464119
I glad that I don't think that sexual pleasure is an end in itself anymore.

>>14464124
yeah, it means that debate is not a philosophy, so it becomes ok to not having ability to refute it

>>14464119
optimistic nihilism is far from mass consumption by capitalism, this is just projecting one target you think it's bad by pulling up one of our biggest problem

>optomistic nihilism
Isn't that sort of what absurdism is?

>>14464086
>I imagine optimistic nihilism is similar or the same as active nihilism
you mean "passive nihilism". ftfy
But I think Will to power cannot work to him, because this optimistic nihilism is giving a clever stab on one that Nietzsche viewed as incredibly obvious and gave no response; Why should we do something? Why should we find a meaning?

>>14464119
based af

couldn't agree more with this man, especially about the nerf gun bit lol

>>14464119
utterly, inexorably based

>>14464129
>>14464133
>>14464193
>>14464369
>>14464398
>t. newfags

>>14464432
Anyone that uses based meme unironically is a newfag.

literally just existentialism for meme fags

just deconstruct his shit. say you'll never be able to live authentically or be optimistic because fundamentally your perception is a social construct

>>14464119
Holy fuckin based

>>14464021
>knowledge on literature is obligatory
It really isn't. Conclusions can be reached without reading every thought ever written down.
>help me pull my friend out of this mindset
Why? If he is happy, just let him be happy. How insecure are you that you have to prove how smart you are in any given situation?

>>14464055
>There's no reason to be optimistic about anything
It makes you feel better in the present. If that isn't a worthy goal for you, I don't know what the fuck you are doing with your life.

>>14464021
I like the video.

>>14464119
Based schizo

>>14464806
Read the next two sentences.

Anyone who gets their philosophy from youtube can just be ignored. It’s pseud anime posters who think they are part of an intellectual elite but can’t be motivated to ever read or learn anything

>>14466336
I do go on youtube a lot and I'm a bit ashamed and know that this video is probably opinionated and I should read myself but honestly I don't really have time. I'm not a NEET and there's a lot of information on the Internet that I feel like I have to know about (curiosity, fear of missing out, etc.. idk why) so I just listen to a 30 minute video about a subject and when I'm really interested I go and read a book (I also look for the smallest book because I find bigger ones diluted)

>>14464021
theres not really anything wrong with it, stop asking us to validate your feelings. do something good for your friend and recommend him some camus or sartre or something if he's so beneath you

>>14464796
but if you don't read you bound to rethink what others have thought before. why not expand your mind? besides, if that is a friend wouldn't you prefer an unhappy but honest to himself friend as opposed to a happy fool?

>>14464021
muh scientism, muh space big man small= nothing has value. these people are shallow so there's nothing you can do for them, in fact since you couldn't refute it, you too are a shallow thinker. kys

>>14464021
You can't refute Nihilism without supernatural belief. Its the endpoint of rationality.

>>14464097
this whole post better be bait

>>14466622
Nihilism is self refuting since rationality presupposed axioms of truth which themselves necessitates value statements. Nihilism is an incoherent position without a specific frame of reference, e.g. spiritual nihilism, or material nihilism, or ethical nihilism. But complete nihilism is nonsensical since it is impossible to reject ALL viewpoints.

Sounds like an oxymoron

The problem with this philosophy is less the individual experience of life which can be created through living with this mindset. The problem is the lack of selfjustification. Meaning it is irrelevant if you don't kill yourself in the acceptance of nihilism because i can do that for you. If the only worth and meaning you have comes from yourself you either need to be ready to get killed by any majority to whom you are a nuisance or you need to be ready to constantly do what the mass wants. But even then it is unsure if not one of your innate traits become undeserving of existence in the eyes of society.
Tldr take a gun to his head and ask him why you shouldn't shoot. Whatever he says answer in a way of it doesn't matter and that you are optimistic about a life with one friend less

>optimistic nihilism
>materialist cope
>the ultimate bugman spiritual dead end

Do people who adopt this philosophy pretend theyre happy for like a week then go back to be sad sacks?

>>14464021
>basedgesagt

I thought Nihilism meant you didn't believe in anything or make any value judgements? In which case you can't be optimistic or pessimistic since that requires you to believe that anything is good or bad in the first place.

>>14464021
It fucking is cringe, optimistic nihilism is just what albert camus taught, which is absurdism

>>14464021
Greg Bahnsen

>>14464035
Isn’t that what Nietzsches life work was about

>>14464021
its easy to refute, it refutes itself on its own terms, scientific materialism is completely retarded because it doesnt want to think about metaphysics.

>>14464035
Was about to say this. "Optimistic Nihilism" is an oxymoron, like "meat-eating vegan" or "postmodern marxist".

>>14464055
>I see no reason that life has to have meaning.
Thank you, Anon, for that sentence. To me, nihilism always was the belief that life doesn't have to have meaning and NOT the belief that life has no meaning. Those two are completely different things.

>>14464035
>>14468968

I'm leaving /lit/ forever, you people have obviously never read a book in your life. Jesus lord WHAT? Just...
These are the people you share a board with guys, enjoy, I'm gonna fap over at >>h from now on, so long suckas.

>>14464021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9NhjMOWUNY

>>14468481
I'm not familiar with Nietzsches but i think he, precisely, tried to find a way to overcome nihilism through an affirming philosophy. Nihilistic realization is often temporary, they are usually called "existential crisis" where people reevaluate everything, but as soon as you pick another meaning to carry out your existence you left the grounds of nihilism.

>>14469016
Goodbye.

>>14469021
you can be aware of the absolute absurdity of existence and still be optimistic about it.

>>14469101
How?

>>14466967
ass

>>14469115
If nothing matters, you're free to feel any which way you like. Despair isn't the inevitable natural recourse of apathy

>>14469115
We create art. Tell stories. Help out those that come after us.

>>14469125
>If nothing matters, you're free to feel any which way you like.
Yes but when you do, you are not nihilist anymore. Even if your meaning is freely and arbitrary chosen it is still a meaning. You can't claim that existence is without meaning and be "optimistic" about it, meaning to think that things will be "better" which implies "goodness" which implies morality which implies meaning.
That makes you some sort of hedonist or eudaimonist again.

>>14464119
What exactly are these "elevated tastes and moral preferences" you speak about?

Congrats on being half a tier above the normies in realizing that once again, our civilization has a set of generational problems it needs to solve not to tear itself apart.

But if you don't present any implementable idea that might help improve the situation, you being enlightened and above the masses (TM) will do absolutely jack shit for the world.

You'll just be more miserable while contributing about as much as those unwoke normies will.

>>14464021
Do you genuinely desire to help your friend live a more meaningful and fulfilling life or are you just feeling ashamed for being friends/feeling superior for drawing your personal philosophy from a source you consider superior?

>>14464156
>>14464097

Not being able to refute a point during a denate is ok, as that has far more to do with debating skills than the philosophical strength of your position.
However, if you're not able to refute a point after a significant amount of time has passed, and come here to ask for books to refute your friend's views, that means you had no intellectual justification to reject them in the first place, and you are desperately seeking for something to confirm your biases.
That speaks very poorly of your intellectual honesty.

>>14469115
>>14469168
Because the present has the advantage of actuality over nihilism which becomes insignificant as a result. This doesn’t make life any less absurd or pointless. It’s just a refined cope. Read Nietzsche please.

>>14464119
Have sex incel. We live like kings because we conquered those third world niggers. They live in a shit hole because they reap what we sowed.
I'll enjoy my time beating my fat, THICC-alicious dick while it's throbbing hard just thinking about chang making 50 cents an hour making my next plastic toy for my figurine collection.
I don't need to read a fucking book like wagie John who can't even support his own faggot tamagotchi.
I don't need to do a push up to reduce my triple mcnugget chins because I don't want to.
Fuck you for trying to impose on my first-world life style. We live for dopamine and we've become efficient at it. I do what I want.
Have a problem with that? Go write a well written essay to your mom on how a Chad made you cry like a bitch on an image board.

Try getting him to read this. It is not a work that uses logic to prove a thesis, BUT it provides excellent food for thought that is contrary to the claim of "optimistic nihilism" (aka existentialism) that "life is alright". Rather, the thesis of the book is that life is "malignantly useless"

>>14469911
Shut up and neck yourself, soulless bugman.

nihilism was retroactively refuted by buddhism thousands of years ago, why do we insist on having these pointless discussions?

>>14469620
based

>>14470117
blow it out your ass redditfag

>>14464237
Yes. Absurdism is a much more fun term, too.

>>14469392
This. OP is just a sensitive faggot that cannot comprehend anyone having a viewpoint that runs counter to his own for his egos sake

>>14464021

>>14464021
So the viewpoint is that life and the universe as a whole has no inherent meaning, but this framework conjunctively enables us to create meaning? which aspects of the human experience, then, are void of meaning? if as individuals we can manifest our own destiny to create meaning, then that would directly contradict the assertion that all of our negative actions are inconsequent, as if we derive meaning from ourselves, there is accompanying meaning with everything that we do.

So I don't understand trips anymore

>>14472036

>>14472039