/lit/ - Literature

There is no dao and way, there is only shi and those lacking the fa and shu to seek it.

Dunno man.

>>14454487

The part about effort is true.

>>14454487
I'd be happy to tell you if only I could fucking read your tiny ass image.

>TL note: "Junzi" means supreme gentlemen

>>14454487
I have one daoist friend. His prose is amazing, yet he cares not about publishing. He works everyday developing software, yet at the end of the day he is not tired. He moves around, bringing up projects (like the reading group in which we became friends) to fruitation, yet he is not anxious and does not feel proud of his achievements. He is about to retire soon (before age 35, probably), for an economically modest life of reading all day and fucking lit bitches.
I cannot envy him, because if I do, I will have subverted all that he ever wanted of me - to see things as they are, never try hard and never want things to be different from what they are.
>tl;dr dao all the way baby

>>14454634
If dao is to make one happy, and tragedy may make a man happier, it is useless for some.

>>14454616
Get glasses

>>14454487
False dichotomy, Confucianism is equivalent to the mosaic law in Judaism, the Sharia in Islam and law of Manu in Hinduism. Whereas daoism is equivalent to Kabbalah, Sufism and Vedanta.

>>14454487
confucianism:
>cvck out to your parents and older people at all times, because...because!
>even if he's one minute older than you he's your elder and you need to get on your knees for him
>work like a dog your whole life and never ask for anything, just keep working, slav--citizen.
>cvck to the king
>cvck to your father
>cvck to your elder brothers
>you have to ask daddy's permission every time you want to sneeze
>here, have a bunch of dogma and old superstitions and lengthy, involved, expensive rituals
>you need to complete all the rituals
>you are born in debt for life to your parents and your ancestors
>even if your father beats you and abuses you, you must accept it because he's your father
>know your place and never seek more

daoism:
>bruh living is nice
>what a nice cloud, I think i'm gonna spend 5 hours today watching it
>sensei told me a funny story the other day, want to hear it? I wont' tell you what it means, just think about it, little bro.
>be content
>be empty of any stress or worry
>melt into the earth and grass

>>14454487
lmaoing at people who think there's actually any difference between any eastern """school""" of """""thought"""""
it's all vague bullshit that you're supposed to "feel", 99% of practitioners, readers and other random fucktards who cling to those notions just seek refuge in a thinly veiled pseudo-philosophy

>>14455141
Retard

*invents leftism*
nothing personnel, kid

>>14455148
ooh yeah that's a no no my fellow dao brother, for everything is one and the dao is in all and the dao is perfect but the dao is within me and i am a sage of the eternal so i cannot be a retard, neither can you, let's seek enlightenment in a crop of radishes

>>14455014
Nice rebuttal, anon, I'm pretty sure OP was just baiting though

>>14454487
Was Heidegger a Taoist?

>>14455155
Retard

is there a way to be somewhat competitive and dao at the same time?

>>14454511
this lil nigga is just straight chilling

>>14455192
>The five colors
>make a man's eyes blind;
>Horseracing and hunting
>make a man's mind go mad;
>Goods that are hard to obtain
>make a man's progress falter;
>The five flavors
>make a man's palate dull;
>The five tones
>make a man's ears deaf.
>For these reasons,
>In ruling, the sage
>attends to the stomach, not to the eye.
>Therefore,
>He rejects the one and adopts the other.
- Tao Te Ching
mmmmm such profoundness yes eternal sage please shower me with the knowledge your stomach has accumulated
instead of calling me a retard, point me to any passage that actually has within it a thought that isn't vague or childlike and, if possible, to one that actually says something one should and could think about
>Reversal is the movement of the Way;
>Weakness is the usage of the Way.
>All creatures under heaven are born from being;
>Being is born from nonbeing.
i cri evrytim

>>14455247
>has within it a thought that isn't vague or childlike
that's like asking for thoughts founded on something other than logic in a work of logical philosophy
you're fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of mysticism

>>14455247
>a thought that isn't vague or childlike and, if possible, to one that actually says something one should and could think about

Oh no no no.
Your mind is full of spooks.

>>14455257
you can have somewhat vague mysticism all you want but what's the actual point if none of it can be traced back to a source
you can say that some of plato's and aristotle's ideas are rooted in mysticism without being wrong, but they at least had the decency to either justify that belief or bring forth some sort of metaphor or whatever
mysticism for the sake of mysticism is just an endless jenga tower of vague thoughts, proponents of which are no more than people acting all high and mighty, blessed and wise while ignoring any sort of criticism, any differing opinion
much like a child that covers its ears and shouts when confronted with a contrary thought
but sure, i'll "bite" - give me a vague thought but at least one that isn't childlike, that encourages the reader to ponder its meaning, rather than either live by it or outright discard it

>>14455247
>I'm an big boy I require complexity and intricacy simplicity is for children because I'm a big boy yaaaay

you've got a long way to go

>>14455292
and this is exactly the condescending proponent of mysticism we've all come to love and respect, beautiful, like clockwork

>>14455324
I think what this poster is trying to get at is that you've allowed your presumptions about what information is and isn't valuable to cloud your judgement. A thought doesn't need to be complex to be valuable. In some ways, the Tao is childish, because the child is one who is willing to grow.

>>14455369
>I think what this poster is trying to get at is that you've allowed your presumptions about what information is and isn't valuable to cloud your judgement.
this isn't true though, because i dived headstrong into the tao te ching, zhuangzi, essays on idleness, analects and the gita, read a shit ton of secondary sources and it still felt unsatisfying and vague
tried posting here several times during the last 2 years or so, but nothing more than a retelling of the original text was ever given
only afterwards did i tackle "western thinkers" and found them not only more systematic, but more profound too
and then i'd just become sort of bitter to the whole ordeal of eastern mysticism and that's it
so no, there are no presumptions here, only a tired man who can't stand poetry being elevated to the status of godlike philosophy
the only thing i seem to notice on this site (in these threads) is some sort of extreme orientalist circle jerking

>>14455369
>In some ways, the Tao is childish, because the child is one who is willing to grow.
and some children want to stay children forever and some adults wish to change, nothing of substance in that last remark of yours, just a generalization that agrees with your own presumptions

>>14455247
meditate

>>14454634
Based Sage-bro. I don't believe he's real but he's a great example for us all.

>>14455213
You can strive to improve a skill for the pleasure of improving said skill. Victory or loss in competition is meaningless, but you can still use it as practice.

>>14454487
they are compliments, yin and yang, false dichotomy brainlet

>>14455247
>In ruling, the sage
>attends to the stomach, not to the eye.

Deal with matters of daily needs and stop chasing luxury and hedonism., both for your own and other's sake.

It's that easy anon.

>>14455014
>all evil ideologies are neither hot nor cold but decidedly demiurgic to an almost literally perennial degree

it's j-j-just absence of g-good m-m-m-my dudes...

Lao Tzu warns against living against the Tao, but if the Tao dictates all things how can we NOT live in accordance with it? Are human beings the only creatures capable of forging a path outside the Tao? There seems to be something profound here.

>>14454511
lil nigga lookin comfy af

Any recs for an overview of Chinese philosophy?

>>14456138
>Are human beings the only creatures capable of forging a path outside the Tao?

They're the only creatures capable of believing they're going against the Tao, and in which case it causes them great suffering. Like an alcoholic who wishes he could quit but miserably drinks himself to death, he could have enjoyed his life of drink, short as it may be, and become a sage whilst going about it.

>>14456151
Read the Analects, Tao Te Ching, and I Ching, and you're good unless you want to delve deeper. TTC is like a 30 minute read too.

>>14456151
>>14456175
spirit of zen by alan watts?

>>14456175
>TTC is like a 30 minute read too.
i just spent half a month on it.

>>14454495
Hey look I can do that too:
"Bing shing Chong Wong ding ding"
Does this make me a great philosopher too?

>>14456220
And that's correct as well.

>>14456254
I actually laughed out loud. This anon gets the Tao.

>>14456157
Ok, this makes sense to me. It is a matter of accepting the way or not. Thanks.

>>14456151

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP7utU8Efow

>>14456151
>>14455247

>>14457250
Retard

>>14456151
Readings in Classical Chinese Philosophy

>>14454634
How do you do these things without a desire to do them?

>>14457699
Just do them.

>>14457780
But you do things because you desire them, if you didn't desire anything you would never do anything.

>>14456220
I spent most of the of last summer going to a secluded cliff to swim, meditate and read the Tao Te Ching and other texts. Wish I could go back to that lifestyle.

>>14457848
Where do I find secluded cliffs?

>>14457850
Dunno, where do you live?

>>14457853
New Jersey

>>14457871
I'm sure there's plenty of secluded natural sites you can visit in NY. This place looks rad.

wageslave vs NEET

>>14455149
He wasn’t a materialist though, he believed that punishment came directly from the spirits

>>14454668
And of those six only Vedanta has any spiritual merit.

>>14457911
What about Iowa?

>>14454487
>

Complete Reality Taoism was the first Taoist Sect to establish a system that successfully blended and harmonized the "Three Teachings" (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanzhen_School
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Gate_Taoism

>>14457831
>But you do things because you desire them, if you didn't desire anything you would never do anything.
Anon, you are so certain. Perhaps it would do you good to meditate on how you can change these things.

1-6, paganism
6.5, protisantism
7, satanism
8, atheism
12, spritualism
14, confusicianism
15, taoism
16, free market capitalism
17, monopoly
19, new world economy
21, dark matter recycling
24, heat death cultism
25, fertile complacence, caches of spines
26, prey in defeat

>>14458600
Why anon, are you a exoteric dogmatist?

>>14454487
Both are fucking retarded and you're retarded for needing a system to follow.

>>14457848
Sounds pretty LARP but pretty based as well. I guess devotion is always a kind of LARP. The masters of the yesteryear were fedoralords like you.

The wise student hears of the Tao and practices it diligently.
The average student hears of the Tao and gives it thought now and again.
The foolish student hears of the Tao and laughs aloud.
If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is.

>>14454487
>Why yes, I'm a legalist. How could you tell?

>>14459249
You recorded it diligently

>>14454487
>drink wine and smoke weed
>"The pursuit of pleasures can derange one's mind."
How did you get "lol nothing matters bro just drink n party lol" from the Tao Te Ching?

>>14454487
Was Elliot Rodger inspired by Confucianism?

>>14454628
No, doof. Man of culture.

>>14459059
roll?

>>14459933
Would you believe that interpretation was a major influence in the hippie movement back in the 70s?

>>14460611
There have been hedonistic interpretations of Taoism for centuries, although the hippies have popularized it in the West

>>14459933
>How did you get "lol nothing matters bro just drink n party lol" from the Tao Te Ching?
he probably just read Dharma Bumbs

>>14454634
Based Zhuangzi imitation

>>14455014
daoism sounds comfy

>>14456100
this

>>14455247
Am i retard or is the first one standard anti hedonism, live simple stuff? I assume the "five" things would be understood by chinese.
Second is a poor translation according to a quick google
>those who are rebellious go against the Tao
>those who are powerless make good use of the Tao
>everything in the world arises from having [the Tao]
>but having it arises from letting go

>>14454487
what do they say about pessimism?

>>14458637
Go chill in a field

>>14454487
Ok, you got me what are some fundamental Daoist texts?

>>14461636
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=fundamental+daoist+texts

>>14461520
absolutely based lmao love tintin

whats the difference between daoism and zen buddhism

>>14461754
There's crossover. Zen might have grown out of the Japanese interpretation of Taoism and interactions between priests of China and Japan, but it's not fully known.

>>14457699
Imagine you want to write a story. You think about it day and night, you think of people's reception, you want the story to be great, you imagine what it would be like to read several years down the line - a perfect encapsulation of the time and mind! Sitting down to actually write it would be extremely stressful,wouldn't it?
Now imagine just punching out a couple of words on the keyboard, late at night when you're half drunk - no great expectation, no goals in mind, the empty mind might bring forth things that would surprise even you.
Which story do you think would be more fun to read?
>>14456220
Took me a similar time, I made it a habit to only read it after a glass of wine.
>>14457848
Many people don't even find that kind of peace even once. I'm glad for you, anon, and hoping you will find it again (as long as you don't look too hard).
>>14456074
I did go a little overboard. He kinda hates his job (but will really retire at an amazingly young age), and doesn't bang as many chicks as he would have liked.
I would have posted his prose, but the language probably isn't spoken here.
More importantly, dude's a real life genius. He is winning at life, but he really got dealt a wicked good hand.

>>14461695
Was hoping to get the MAIN quintessential text not have to sift through all the irrelevant stuff

>>14461754
none. Zen, Sufi, Tao, and Eckhart's nihilist Christianism are the same

>>14454511
you know the vibes

>>14454487
>Why yes, I did win this battle by following The Way, haha how could you tell?

>>14455014
>>what a nice cloud, I think i'm gonna spend 5 hours today watching it
>I have not yet in all my wanderings found a single person so free as myself. When in the woods I sit at times for hours watching birds or squirrels or looking down into the faces of flowers without suffering any feelings of haste
did John Muir follow the Dao?

>>14454601
this.

when you finally realize it life makes a lot more sense, and also is less stressful

>>14454592

>>14461520
What happens next?

>>14464942

>>14464947
What happens after this?

>>14464960
50 pages of calculus farting

>>14455291
Complete through music and laughter

>>14454511
Damn my nigga dont care bout that shit

>>14454487
alright you convinced me

>>14454634

>My friend claims to never want things to be different from how they are
>I'm worried about going against what he wants

>current year of the imperium
>not reading everything and learning everything
>not carving a path of your own design through blood and will
Never, and I mean NEVER, going to make it.

>>14454628
Why, yes, I am a Junzi, how could you tell?

>>14454634
based enlightened bugman hedonist