/lit/ - Literature

>>14435273
Not holistically
Read Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Fr. Seraphim Rose

Who cares christcuck? Why don’t u ask ur local priest, he’s gonna tell you to worship a Pachamama.

No, because Guenon is heavily reliant on Shankara, who is generally regarded by Hindus and by scholars as a crypto-Buddhist. You should look into Ramanuja or Madhva instead.

>>14435300
>every christian is Roman Catholic

>>14435300
Fr. Seraphim Rose would do nothing of the sort.

It is generally assumed that there is no room within Christianity for accepting the concept of Sanatana Dharma, or what in the west has been called philosophia perennisor priscorium. This Sophia perennis, to use a phrase preferred by Wolfgang Smith holds that certain metaphysical truths, and hence access to a knowledge of the divine, have always been available throughout history and are to be found within the framework of every valid religious tradition.First of all it should be clear that such a concept in no way contradicts the principle Extra eclesia nulla salus—that outside the Church there is no salvation. If one understands this principle in the way the Church has always understood it, one accepts the fact that there are individuals who, as Saint Pius X put it, belong to the soul of the Church. Such individuals are “invincibly ignorant” of the manifest Church, and certainly before the coming of Christ, the ark of salvation had to take other forms.It is also necessary to consider history, not as a progressive advance from primitive times to the present “enlightened” era but more realistically as a continuous degeneration from a former golden age. Adam‟s fall from paradise is a paradigm for understanding the present situation. God did not abandon His creation and Adam found regeneration, and is indeed considered by the Church to be a saint. In ancient days, saving revelation, in accordance with man‟s more “direct” apprehension of truth, was appropriately more “simple. With each succeeding “fall,” God provided more stringent requirements for man to follow if he sought to reverse the process of degeneration, until the time of Moses when the rules required encompassed every aspect of life. This is well reflected in the Sacrifice of Abel, followed by that of Abraham, and finally by that established through the medium of Moses. Yet throughout all this we have the Sacrifice of Melchisedech, renewed once again in Christ. Such an attitude is not a carte blanchefor every religion that comes down the pike. If salvation is possible outside of the formal structure of the Church, as must have been the case at least before the coming of Christ, one must remember that one cannot be saved by error.

It is Truth alone that saves. And so it follows that salvation comes to us by the Divine Logos which Logos exists and existed from the beginning of time, for “in the beginning was the Word.” The early Church fathers were faced with the plethora of old religious forms which were degenerate in the extreme. They followed one of two courses. They either declared that Christianity had the fullness of the Truth and that therefore there was no need to look elsewhere, or they held that all truth, no matter where it was found, belonged to the integrity of the Faith, and was therefore to be accepted, absorbed, and embraced. As St. Thomas Aquinas said, quoting St. Ambrose, “all truth, no matter where itis found, has the Holy Spirit for its author.” In a similar manner, St. Jerome all but adopted the Buddha‟s life story and Christianized it as we have in the hagiographical account of St Josephat.Catholic Saints have recognized this reality throughout the centuries. St. Justus referred to Heraclitus as “a Christian before Christ,” and Eckhart spoke of an ancient sage in the following terms: “One of our most ancient philosophers who found the truthlong, long before God‟s birth ere ever there was a Christian faith at all as it is now.” St. Thomas of Villenova taught the same doctrine: “Our religion is from the beginning of the world. A great Christian was Abraham; a great Christian was Moses; so also David and all the patriarchs. They adored the same God, believed the same mysteries and expected the same resurrection and judgment. They had the same precepts, manners, affections, desires, thoughts, and modes of life; so that if you saw Abraham, and Moses, and David with Peter and Andrew and Augustine and Jerome, you would observe, in all essential things, a perfect identity.”One could multiply such quotations but such serves no purpose as long as the principles are understood.Against this we seemingly have Augustine‟s retraction which he wrote at the end of his life in an attempt to correct any misunderstanding that his works might lead to. This Retraction runs as follows: “The very thing that is now called the Christian religion was not wanting among the ancients from the beginning of the human race, until Christ came in the flesh, after which the true religion, which had already existed, began to be called „Christian.‟3A closer examination of this retraction however requires an understanding of its reference. The earlier statement occurs in a passage of DeVera Religione(X.19) wherein Augustine explains that “the soul, crushed by the sins which envelope it, would be unable to rise towards the divine realities unless there was found within the human sphere something which would allow man to rise from the earthly life, and to renew in himself the image of God.

For this reason God, in his infinite mercy, has established a temporal means by which men may be recalled to their original perfection, and by which God comes to the help of each particular individual and of the human race.” St. Augustine then adds: “That is in our times the Christian religion, to know and to follow which is the most secure and certain salvation.”In passing it should be noted that Augustine speaks of the “human race,” and not just of the Jewish religion with which of course Christianity has a very close connections. Again, St Justin stated: “God is the Word of whom the whole human race are partakers, and those who lived according to Reason are Christians even though accounted atheists.”He included in these, not only Heraclitus, but also Socrates and Abraham.It was this last sentence that Augustine wished to clarify, explaining that in his retraction he had made use of the term “Christian religion” but had failed to express the realitywhich lies behind the name. To quote him again, “It is said according to this name, not in accord with the thing itself, of which is the name.”To make this even clearer Augustine adds: “When, in fact, following the resurrection and ascension into heaven, the Apostles began to preach and many persons came to believe, it was among the people of Antioch —so it is written —that the disciples were first called Christians. This is the reason why I said, „That is in our times the Christian religion‟; not because in earlier times it did not exist, but because in later times this name was accepted.”And so it is that it is possible for a Catholic to hold to the position usually described as “perennial or universal philosophy.” The only requirement is that he hold to it as a Catholic who accepts all the teachings of the Church as encompassed in the traditional Magisterium, and this for the simple reason that if one steps outside the Magisterium and entertains one‟s own personal opinion as being “true,” one contradicts all that the sanatana dharmaholds sacred.

All this has little to do with the false ecumenism that seems to pervade the atmosphere in our days, an ecumenism that would accept not only Protestantism, but every new age deviation imaginable on—as Vatican II puts it—“on an equal footing.” This ecumenical outreach often extends itself to Eastern religions where those responsible have little true knowledge and understanding. For example, many will speak of the Trinity in Hinduism as being represented by the exclamation of sat chit ananda—which is perhaps best translated as being, knowledge and bliss—names of God equivalent in Islam to qudrah, hikmahandrahmah.The Hindu Trinity of Powers consists of the solar Father above, a fiery Son on earth (whence he ascends to heaven), and the Gale of their common spiration. St. Frances of Sales warned against those who speak of other religions without adequate knowledge, and indeed, even for those familiar with their own theological terminology (which is rare among current scholars), would have difficulty in understanding ways of expression foreign to their intellectual world.

And so it is that we as faithful Christians can, and indeed must accept the idea of a sophia perennis. Wisdom has always been there, it is Christ, the Word made flesh who opens the door and the Church which gives us access to it. An important consequence follows from the above principles. If there areindeed truths to be found in other religions, these truths may serve to clarify some of the obscurities we encounter within our own. In the words of Thomas Aquinas, they can become “extrinsic and probable proofs” of the truths of Christianity. With this in mind, I offer in what follows a study by Ananda Coomaraswamy on a passage in Isaiah: “there shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a flower shall rise up out of his root. And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him: the spirit of wisdom and of understanding...”

I love your dedication, but I think they’re on to you.

>in the Christian sense
You mean the catholic sense. Anything that doesn't align with what catholics decree is demonic, including previous iterations of catholicism

Yes. It is just an elaborate ruse to make you convert to Islam, they use Hinduism as a proxy because they know "spiritual but not religious" western proto-hippies respond to eastern religions like crack, so they walk you through all this Shankara bullshit only to pull out a copy of the Koran at the end. But even this is just another level of illusion, as the ones brainwashing gullible westerners are not even real Muslims but O9A members operating a terrorism factory.

>>14435273
>are Guenon's works compatible with Christian theology?
short answer: no.

>>14435647
long answer: yes, but you have to be semi-enlightened to see it.

>>14435621

>>14435777
Kek

>>14435777
Before you get taken to a black site for posting this, let it be known that I found this extremely based.

>>14435273
in some ways they are very compatible, in others they aren't

read jean borella and wolfgang smith after

no heaven for thinking men

>>14435273
No. But Orthodox Christcuckery is retarded anyway. Middle Path Esoteric Occultism is better

>>14435621
Guenonfag here, this is a complete lie. I am always the one telling people that they are free to become Hindu and that's it's a lie pushed by Schuon et al that westerners cannot become Hindu (there have been many westerners who have become Hindus including some who have become respected spiritual teachers) and in any case westerners have Neoplatonism and Hermetecism if they don't want to become Muslim or Hindu, and that's not even getting into Eastern Orthodoxy and Heychasm. The "Guenon and his fans are secretly trying to get everyone to become muslim" meme seems to persist only among people who haven't actually read many of his books.

>>14436376
You can be any religion you want silly westerner, now lets discuss Koran with my handler.

>>14436376
Dont even respond to them, they are trolling and desperately trying every trick in the book to stop people from reading rene guenon.
Ive been seeing an interesting alliance form between the Materialist leftists/Whiteheadians and Orthodox/Catholic Christians on this board. They both know that Guenon is the biggest threat to them

>>14436386
Do you talk to yourself IRL too?

>>14436384
>implying glowniggers want to push Islam
glowniggers are the puppets of ZOG and the end-result of an Islamized society is the complete removal from power and subjugation of Judaic influences and centers of power, if they are pushing Islamism it will be their own undoing

>>14436480
lol you think they push it because they want it to win? Don't be naive.

>>14435273
>the Godhead is impersonal, reached by apophatic quietism.

Yeah, that’s bullshit

>>14436376
>Guenonfag here
Would Guenon support the Jedi tradition or the Sith tradition?

>>14435328
Well no, Orthodox are also Christian. But the protestants are about as Christian as neopagans are pagan. No one actually takes them seriously.

>>14436559
Both are highly counter-traditional. He would support the grey path leading straight to Allah (swt).

>>14435285
seraphim rose would reject all "traditionalists" lmao he was sympathetic to that stuff until he found orthodoxy

>>14435273
No just an heretic

>>14435347
Hey Jay

Jean Hani, Jean Borella, Wolfgang Smith, and Rama Coomaraswamy are all Catholics who have taken some of Guenon's ideas and applied them to Catholicism. However, they are not "Guenon-ian" or something like that. They don't take all of Guenon's words as truth like some traditionalists do. At SSPX seminaries when Rama Coomaraswamy used to teach there, I believe they taught The Reign of Quantity as supplemental reading for a class. Obviously a good Catholic would not agree with all the statements in the book, but there can be a lot of overlap with any particular traditional wordview.

People have said Fr. Seraphim Rose in this thread. This is somewhat correct as Seraphim Rose read Guenon quite heavily in his first phase of religious experimentation. Some of his controversial metaphysics regarding the soul after death have influence from Guenon's books like The Multiple States of Being. However, once again, Seraphim Rose is not a "Guenonian" or something like that. He is very clear that other religions are erroneous.

>>14435621
>the ones brainwashing gullible westerners are not even real Muslims but O9A members operating a terrorism factory.
Now this is some next level shit. Please, tell me how O9A play into all of this.

>>14438738
Is Rama Coomaraswamy a sede?

>>14439089
He is suffering at a black site right now.
- O9A Representative, The Dark Angel of Punishment

>>14439639
Well, all Catholics necessarily are, otherwise they follow a heretic.

>>14439639
I believe so. At first he was involved with the SSPX which is orthodox and Catholic. However, I believe he became involved with the SSPV towards the later part of his life (which is sedevacantist)

>>14439089
ONA is a larp. And so are all the offshoots like TOB.

>>14439663
>>14439698
You're right. I just read an interview he did where he said he was SSPX until Lefevbre decided to make compromises with "modernist Rome." Kinda based desu.

>>14439089
>Now this is some next level shit. Please, tell me how O9A play into all of this.
The founder of the o9a had connections to the british security establishment and seems to have manipulated islamic extremists in britain to carry out attacks. In america a few of the o9a members were found to be federal informants. The american ones don't seem to be manipulating muslims, but the internet far right. All those pictures you see on /pol/ of skull masks and stuff about "read siege" and atomwaffen were all done by o9a members. Google atomwaffen + nine angles, if you want to read more.

tl;dr a bunch of neckbeard satanists manipulate religious and political nutjobs into carrying out attacks and the feds seem to be aware of them (maybe using them as cointelpro similar to the 60s/70s?)

>>14440387
>>14435621
>>14439655
>terrorism factory
>cointelpro
>O9A - Order of the Nine Angels
>black site
why does all this covert operations stuff sound like it was written by a Japanese man and involves anime girls?

>>14439639
Yes, unfortunately.

>>14441320
>unfortunately
anyone with basic reasoning skills can see that if sede is false, so is the Bible about the gates of hell not prevailing over the Church.

>>14441203
Pop culture exaggerated military/agency naming conventions in pulp action/spy films which then went on to influence the actual naming conventions themselves.

Everyone who says no doesn't get it. There is no such thing as a "traditionalist" all it is is a process to join a tradition. You don't become a Muslim and say I'm a traditionalist, or a traditionalist, you're just a Muslim. It's the same for every single tradition. You can convert to Christianity and still be a 'traditionalist' in the sense that is the process that took you there.
https://www.gornahoor.net/?p=4412

>>14441203
>www.gq.com/story/matthew-llaneza-alleged-terrorist-fbi-snare/amp