/lit/ - Literature

>>14409230
bump

>>14409230
bump
pls respond

>>14409230
LOTR works in archetypes, Aragorn was the good and wise king, you do not need to know his tax or standing army policy, the wisest policy was his policy regardless of which one you think that is, Tolkien wasn't a fat fuck trying to shock his viewers with his expectation subversion abilities or trying to prooagandize his prefered worldview.
Its cool if you are, but not every book is a either a grimdark edgy novel or a self insert westernized harem light novel.

>>14409230
I'll bite. My personal problem with this is he's missing the point on Tolkien, trying to find birch trees in an oak forest. When Tolkien says Aragorn was fair and wise for 100 years, that is as much a type of description as going through the motions and the specifics; Middleearth was a stage showing stories full of magic, great men doing even greater feats, and overall a sense of mythology. Myths often lack intense description that GRRM has because it was meant to be an oral tradition most of the time. Saying he was good and wise, you can determine most of the answers to those questions, and even if you lack the imagination, the way the story is told is more important.

Taxes? They were reasonable. Famines? Floods? They did not happen because he was a good king (belief was, at least in the time of Shakespeare, I assume before as well, that Kings having the Divine mandate to rule would indirectly influence the natural world with their deeds) Standing army? Small but full of the most skilled fighting men in the world. Systemic Genocide? If it was necessary, but walls and patrols can keep them out.

World building is great but it needs to serves the narrative, exude style in the story, and not exist for itself. It has been a very long time since I've read GRRM, but I remember none of prose, especially no style. Tolkien stands against some great books meme'd on here and he compares quite well. His riddles in the Hobbit stand out particularly to me. I've had a friend link me sections of GRRM to dissuade this position I hold on him, and if that is the best he has, he should remember brevity is the soul of wit, and witty stories are always the most fun to read, especially in genre fiction.

>>14409428
>>14409445
Thanks for these.
So it's just two different styles of writing with George preferring his own?

>>14409230
Because not to mention it's not even the focus of the story and you can also nitpick stuff like
>What was the linguistical differences between each regions of Westeros?

Anyways it seems to me that he wasn't "criticizing" Tolkien (he acknowledges Tolkien was a superior writer and his major influence) but trying to explain how his style differs. Still poorly worded though.

I feel like this quote would’ve worked better if he made it clear whether or not he meant to criticize Tolkien. I don’t think he did, but rather meant to emphasize the differing approach he takes to fantasy writing, but it does kinda come off in an “uhm, actually...” kinda way. And, regarding Tolkien, the whole point of lotr is that it’s FANTASY based on archetypal characters, so questions regarding aragorns tax policy seem to miss the point of what makes lotr so enjoyable

>>14409468
>Because not to mention it's not even the focus of the story and you can also nitpick stuff like
>>What was the linguistical differences between each regions of Westeros?

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Languages

>>14409484
>Show wiki
They hired a linguist to make language for Dothraki and Valyrian for show

Still doesn't make sense in case of Westeros. At least North, Dorne and Iron Isles should speak different languages realistically speaking

>>14409466
You can say that yes, although you could then go in deeper and try to explain why Tolkien's work is such a classic after so many years and whether or not GRRM works will enjoy the same status even a couple of decades after he dies.
One of the strenghts of going the more "simple" route when it comes to explaining stuff ("He was a good and wise king" vs "He was kind of an asshole that enjoyed cheap prostitutes, fucking 12 year old peasants and torturing prisoners of war but his sensible economic policy and political savvy allowed him to institute reforms that helped the realm prosper makinh him a wise king in the eyes of his subjects") is that it is less dependant on the current views of society, right now GRRM works fit perfectly with the mainstream view of morality and governing theories but in say 20 years those views might shift and people might see ASOIAF and Martin as hyper cynical garbage.