/lit/ - Literature

>>14381467
dude!
u have false consciousness

>>14381467
Marx had multiple jobs. He was the editor of multiple journals and newspapers.

lmao bro how do you "support" a book? like damn i'm not a shelf bro, i'm not holding this book up, like damn, damn, lmao, bro..

>>14381473
is this the new 'NPC'

>>14381467
I'm working overtime through Christmas and I am most certainly a Marxist. Marx was an author. If you don't think writing is valued work you should leave this board immediately

>>14381467
Because no one wants to hire someone with self respect

wagies and their booty blistered stockholm syndrome

>>14381669
NEETs antagonise the working world because they are LAZY. They can't accept this fact and claim to be a victim.

>>14381467
No body wants to be doing nothing with their lives
Most people are jobless because they can't handle the stress of a capitalist society and can't function in a "productive" way (this manifests as what we now call "mental illness"
For these people to integrate into society they need an "easier society".

>>14381707
Better get to bed anon, Mr. Goldberg is expecting you bright and early tomorrow

There are a lot of commie twinks at my school I want to fill them with my right wing seed

>>14381721
What they need is a kick up the ass

>>14381467
Marx wasn't jobless. He wrote thousands of pages on economics and philosophy. How is that not work?

>>14381721
Jesus Christ, never try to sound intelligent again

>>14381707
Or maybe they want to pursue their own interests like free people rather than devote their lives to tedious jobs that only exist to further enrich the wealthy.

>>14381467
because they want other peoples money?

its just trying to solve petty jealousy

>>14381932
Um sweetie, only being fucked by billionaires is work. Licking boots is also productive and should be rewarded by the markets.

>>14381467
I think most communists are just failed capitalists. They look at how entrenched the wealthy elite are and realize they could work their whole live and never be on equal footing, and it makes them mad.

If communists truly believed capitalism could make them wealthy without exploiting others, there wouldn't be any communists, because they would all be working towards their own prosperity instead of the general good of the community.

>>14381996
capitalism is just such an utter waste of time, it promises to reward your servitude with wealth then never delivers on its promise.

I think most people want to be wealthy, but wealthy people don't actually care about being wealthy, they just need to be wealthier than other people so they can feel valued.

I have no problem with you owning a 20 bedroom mansion, my problem is that I live in a fucking shack.

Communism and Capitalism are both systems that gravitate towards envy, there is no room for improvement under either system because capitalists monopolize capital and communists tear down everything you build out of spite.

>>14381996
Some of them think it's unethical for there to be a ruling class that lives parasitically off the labor of a desperate impoverished lower class.

>>14381467
Capitlism, at its heart, isn't about prosperity and making money, its about ensuring the existence of a lower class to make parasitic vultures feel better about themselves.

Capitalism is still essential a fuedal structure based on land ownership, titles, deeds, and inheritance.

If you appropriate a rich persons mansion, there are still the same number of houses in the world as there were yesterday.

the problem with capitalism isn't that he owns a mansion, its that mr. moneybags won't let me add a second story to my house.

Hhe earned a PhD in philosophy at the university Hegel was chair of. His radical philosophy expelled him from the life of cushy academic that he was all but guaranteed He then went on to pay his bills by writing for various newspapers. It's comical how much more hard working, intelligent, principled, and noble he was compared to some fucking loser anon on an anime website. Nothing strengthens my resolve that he is worth reading and understanding than how much his critics still fear him to write such crap about him.

>>14382017
Wealthy people, are, essentially, the leaders of a capitalist society, they decide what to build and where to build it, they decide what services a community needs and strive to provide them, all in the name of their own self interest.

The problem, as I see it, is that wealthy people are status obsessed. They don't want to build things people actually need or want, they want to enforce class privilege by ensuring that others acknowledge them as superior.

I can build a bookstore, a cafe, a theater, and i would be respected and loved, but that does nothing to resolve my own feelings of inferiority. If I build a taco bell, I can look down on the people who work their and elevate myself above them, even though it is detrimental to my own prosperity to do so.

>>14382061
If capitalists weren't so utterly narcissistic and self-absorbed, capitalism would be a great system. But capitalists don't want to be respected, they want to be feared. They don't want praise and adoration, they want servitude.

They are completely entrenched in the nobility, they are afraid of foreign values and continually make the same foolish gamble, thinking that 'more' will somehow make them happy.

>>14382018
>>14382034
>>14382036
>>14382061
You have to be over 18 to post here.

>>14381467
Because like most extremist ideals, it attracts the dregs of society. Much like a nazi blames Jews for their own personal failings, a red blames anyone successful for their own personal failings. Both lack personal responsibility and accountability.

>>14382095
ebic post

>>14382088
And it doesn't help that you essentially have a peasant class that is incapable of understanding that they are being exploited, that it is not normal to pay 2/3's of your income to the same class of people who write your paycheck.

Or rather, they know they are being exploited, but they rationalize it, looking correct every source of misery and discontentment except the one thing they feel powerless to do anything about: the rent.

We do not have a competitive housing market in capitalist societies. In fact, we go to great lengths to preserve holding companies monopolies on property.

Only during the last decade or so has there even been an online directory for property that is open for the public, but most realtors know they can make more money by keeping listings private.

The fact that the majority of working class people in capitalist societies are brainwashed since birth to think that a 30 year mortgage is somehow normal, and not a complete fucking ripoff, just goes to show that we are far more feudalistic than capitalist.

>>14382122
I mean think about it. 30 years is the entire span of your working career, if you take the 10 years you spend doing dredge work and getting an education.

That is the most raw deal imaginable, a lifetime of servitude for the ownership of ONE rickety, soon to be 30 year old house, in the hopes that you MAY pass it on to your children.

And given that you are likely going to get sick, injured, unable to work at some time during that 30 year period, that means that you will essentially be locked into a reverse morgauge and the bank will repossess your house anyway.

>>14382151
less than 1% of americans make more than 100,000 dollars a year. Most americans make between 500,000 to 1,500,000 dollars over the course of their entire LIVES. When the average price of a home is equal to the amount of money you make during the course of your entire LIFE, what are the chances that you will EVER get out from under that debt?

>>14382166
And you know, the funny thing about capitism, is that it DID work at one point, and that it worked rather well, until the government loaned the banks enough money to completely buy out the average home owner.

I think its always going to be this way, because people have been conditioned to think that its normal. We're so far removed from capitalism and its ideals that the very concept of fair trade is completely foreign to us.

Capitalism? Most people wouldn't know it if it bit them on the ass.

>>14382183
>I think its always going to be this way, because people have been conditioned to think that its normal
literally every society since the beginning of time has conditioned its people into thinking its normal

You will never, EVER convince the proletariat to rebel, because they have never known anything other than servitude and can't imagine a world in which they are free.

>>14382195
But its not, though. I mean, its the status quo, in that sense its normal, but it flies in the face of everything we've been taught about individuality, freedom, and self-determination. The amount of cognitive dissonance capitalist societies manage to maintain is more than you can expect the human mind to endure. It causes so much suffering, yet its been like this for thousands of years, its totally unnatural, its inherently immoral, yet the masses tolerate it as if it were normal.

I think its true that human beings can get used to anything.

>>14382222
If a man owns a house, he cannot be compelled to work beyond what is required for his own sustenance. He is free to pursue whatever he wants.

If he owns no property, then he is essentially a serf, he can choose his own master but cannot master his own destiny.

>>14382088
Yeah, the problem with capitalist apologists is that they don't take human nature into account.

>>14382234
So of course, communists promote communal property, because that ensures there will be a ruling class that can compel them to work and live in servitude. And of course, fuedalists support the system because they are the ones who invented it.

But capitalism?

Never been tried.

>>14381707
why neets would support marxism. according to marxism neets are subhumans

>>14382246
>communal property ensures there will be a ruling class
wat

>>14382222
capitalism hasn't been around for thousands of years, I don't think you are well read enough on this whole thing to have opinions

>>14382268
We are the party comrade, it is for the good of the revolution we have your books.

>>14382200
Why were proles murderd for trying to escape the workers paradise?

>>14382284
wat
are you talking about vangaurdism? that's Lenin not Marx you jabroni

>>14382295
for thinking there was somewhere else to go.

>>14381467
funny how communists say they are helping the working class by highering taxes for stuff like healthcare and college

>>14382316
welfare too

If communist theory could stand on its own, it would not seek to repress dissenting opinions, instead critiquing them and arguing in favor of its own merits.

>>14382316
>>14382321
oh don't be ridiculous. all governments have taxes, all governments provide welfare. Communist ideology hasn't brought about with it the abolition of money, its simply re subsumed the debt.

>>14382316
you mean "socialists? anyway, its higher taxes on the wealthy and upper middle class that rightfully deserves it.

>>14382310
Jawohl!

>>14382302
Are you speaking agains the party comrade, speaking against the revolution?

>>14382413
Nobody deserves anything you literal child.

Capitalist moralists really are so fucking cringe. Between the hack psychologizing and self help tier boomerisms what do they ever bring to the table that isn't trite and fallacious hogwash?

>>14382011
> it promises to reward your servitude with wealth then never delivers on its promise.
No, only a retard would believe working for somebody will let you become wealthy. People understand that the richest are those who start businesses and take high risks.

>>14382479
if you cannot intellectually separate Leninism, Marxist-Leninism, and Marxism, you are a mental midget

>>14381467
Because they want to work and unemployment is a big issue?

>>14382562
Yes you sound exactly like an imperialist, bourgeois counter-revolutionary. You will be shot and your children and wife raped, it is the will of the party and thus the people that this is so, to protect the revolution!

>>14382324
>theory oppresses

>>14382324
"The more you silence others, the more it's communist. The repression of others is praxis in it's purest form."
Carl Barks, "The Capitol" p.15, Penguin Books 1985

>>14382825
do you think larping as a tankie is just sort of fun or is there a point to this

Why won’t they leave /lit/ alone, lads?

>>14382899

>>14382906

>>14382906
Don’t try to pretend that almost all trannies aren’t rabid commies. You faggots are so disingenuous.

>>14382200
You're right. The role of communists is not "convincing" the proletariat to rebel but giving disconnected rebellions unity and common direction.

>>14382316
They don't say that.

>>14382324
You're right, it can't "stand on its own". Class struggles are violent conflicts. They're fought with armies on the battlefield, not with theories on the marketplace of ideas.

>>14381467
same reason a lot of jobless losers support capitalism? or watch childrens cartoons all day? if you step away from conceptualizing everyone who publicly identifies as a communist as a careful political or philosophical advocate, it will become more obvious
some people look at it's surface level and think "i like this" and take it really far without the reading chops to back it up

>>14382896
This is the reality of the party, the revolution and the will of the proletariat you counter revolutionary!

>>14382933
Correct comrade it is a war, and we shall hang every man, women and child of the bourgeoisie!

>>14382899
>>14382906
>>14382908
>>14382923
>trying to prove anything by using Discord screenshots
Fools.

>>14383154
No, that's not necessary. Class is a social relation, and to destroy it one doesn't need to destroy the individuals that comprise it. Marx, Preface to Capital:
>I do not by any means depict the capitalist and the landowner in rosy colours. But individuals are dealt with here only in so far as they are the personifications of economic categories, the bearers [Träger] of particular class-relations and interests. My standpoint, from which the development of the economic formation of society is viewed as a process of natural history, can less than any other make the individual responsible for relations whose creature he remains, socially speaking, however much he may subjectively raise himself above them.

>>14381467
>jobless
>losers
kek

>>14383195
Are you defending the bourgeois swine? The capitalists do not care for the lives of the proletariat and are more than willing to kill them, so we must kill the lot of them, from the oldest crone to the smallest babe!

>>14383805
No we don't. They won't be the ones physically fighting for the counter-revolution. They'll use armies made of gullible retards like yourself. And those will get killed, yes.

Capitalism builds better armies so communism has no hopes of surviving. Grow up children.

>>14383866
Capitalism builds them and communism pulls them on its side, because the armies aren't composed of bougie faggots after all. Those can only hide in a bunker and send other people to die for them.

>>14381950
Boo hoo. Next thing you'll tell me is that they need a service animal to fill out their paperwork and choose for them

I dont support it persay but modern work culture is fucking cancer, commies promise alot but so far have given little. Not worth dying for

>>14384004
the armies arent composed of communists either lol

>>14381467
>why are the people who suffer the most from capitalism the ones against it
This thread really activates my axioms

Doesn't mean we need some Jew-run dictatorship so we can finally achieve sone communist pipe dream. There's alternatives and I shouldn't even have to enumerate them if you know anything beyond the bad capitalism/ good communism false dichotomy

>>14381467
Having a job is not winning at life.

>>14384043
Of course they aren't, but in times of deep crisis of capitalism they are composed of people who are closer to the proletariat and the middle classes in the process of proletarianization than to the bourgeoisie.

>When you get a job and feel like an adult but realize there's nothing more planned for the rest of your life by society than your retirement so you go on 4chan to surround yourself with losers you're in the same place as but still feel better than

>>14381467
Why are there so many faggots, especially transfaggots, larping as leftwing? They need to fuck off, they're repelling the working class away from it's freedom.

>>14381467
Marx was living in exile, and he also held multiple jobs at various points in his life.
Also
>instead of critiquing ideas going after authors personal life.

>>14384090
the proletariat don't care about communism, the only socialist ideas they like are things like unions and welfare

Hey OP instead of ad hominems how about you point out a statement from Marx and tell us why he's wrong?

>>14383827
Yes we do, you think think leaving the smallest portion of cancerous cells a good thing? Go lick more boots capatilist!

>>14384212
sure, they don't currently

>>14384331
I already explained you that this conception doesn't work. The cancerous cells are not the individuals but in the socials relations in which they exist. The latter can be smashed without smashing the former.
I won't explain the third time. Not my fault that your racist little essentialist brain fails to grasp this simple concept.

Too bad we won't be alive when Marx is widely considered one of the upper echelon human geniuses. He was so ahead of his time that our backward Conservative brethren view him as a blathering idiot heathen.

>>14384350
Both must be smashed! The capitalists must be run to ground, everyone of the, hanged! Capitalist are not a race, but a class of parasites that must be exterminated in the revolution. Your mercy towards the oppressors of the proletariat, is frankly disgusting considering they are well on their way to killing the planet!

>>14382011
I dunno senpai, it delivered on the promise to me.

God whats with all the cringey larpers, capitialism is just gonna go away with death by a thousands cuts reformism. Youll be long dead, nust work and enjoy your current life god damn. Organize if you want

>>14384423
Capitalism will not go away until the capitalist class is killed off, before they kill us off!

>>14384423
Capitalism will not go away, ever.

>>14381721
this

>>14381996
the effects of exchange-value (alienation, commodity fetishism, reification) would still be present

>>14381950
>pursue their own interests
Day drinking is not an interest

>>14384508
No dude ill be a fisherman at day, then a tailor midday then a philosopher at night!

>>14384528
It always amuses me how marxist neets like to romanticize pre industrial work and act as if they're using all their free time to pursue something actually worthwhile. In reality they sit around in their own filth, gaining weight and killing their liver

>>14381996
>If communists truly believed capitalism could make them wealthy without exploiting others, there wouldn't be any communists
This might be the dumbest and most obvious thing I've ever seen posted here.

>>14381467
>why are commies commies?

>>14385498
(the people I'm talking about exist only in my head by the way)

>>14382183
god stfu libertarian dumbass. read history for once in your life

>>14384052
/thread

>>14386086
Tell us all about your deepand exciting hobbies anon. Alcholism and piss bottles dont count

>>14386107
I don't romanticize pre-industrial work and don't act like I'm using all my free time to pursue something actually worthwhile. Also I keep in shape, rarely drink and had quit smoking before I started studying communism. I'd like to meet this imaginary communist of yours and ask him a few questions, about his romanticism for example.

>>14386279
>imaginary communist
Ive met several irl. They're lazy slobs and always pull the the same "we deserve free time to pursue our interests" meme.
Dont even try to pretend that they dont exist.

>>14381467
Because you were born after decades of targeted propaganda and operate on pure confirmation bias. The past, socialist nations, actual unions/minority organizations; these things are beyond you and what you understand.

>>14386319
>he doesn't want free time to pursue his own interests
Ok, wagecuck

>>14381467

I don't have a job and I think the guy has created an ideology that has lead to millions of deaths by authoritarian rulers who lived by his works and writings and practiced what he preached. Now you just reminded me to finish filling out job application forms.

>>14381467 (OP)

I don't have a job and I think the guy has created an ideology that has lead to millions of deaths by authoritarian rulers who lived by his works and writings and practiced what he preached. Now you just reminded me to finish filling out job application forms.

>>14386368

Even people with jobs that drain them of soul and life have a couple of hours a day to pursue a hobby that can fulfill the void in their life like reading philosophy or some other good book or work out or learning how to cook.

>>14387681
okay but if you had the choice to have Shakespeare be a full time playwrite and a him be a hobbiest who had to work 40 hours a week, you know it's always better for him to be a playwrite. Just imagine if Kafka was able to write full time. Sometimes it isn't about vain personal fulfilment, it is about the production of socially valuable work

Bump.

Say what you want, but psilosophy of practice is great.

>>14386368
>his own interests
Lemme guess - drugs, porn and video games?

>>14386319
There are much more people who LARP as communists than actual communists, so you can deduce from the simple law of probability who it was that you met.

>>14388757
The kinds of hobbies people have are shaped socially and in the last instance derive from the mode of production. Condemnation of the behaviour of people living in a capitalist society is not a point aganist communist.

>>14388790
How do you differentiate real communists from LARPers?

>>14381467
Cringe

>>14388794
By asking them questions about their understanding of communism and evaluating the answers from the standpoint of the correct understanding of communism.

>>14381569
This.

>>14388898
Okay so they are politically incorrect, therefore they're faking it? What's a good materialist explanation for such embarrassing people existing?

>>14388908
>Okay so they are politically incorrect, therefore they're faking it?
No, they're clueless about what communism is so they misidentify as communists.
>What's a good materialist explanation for such embarrassing people existing?
The victory of the counter-revolution and the poverty of the left petty bourgeoisie whose ideology can never go beyond a melange of bourgeois ideas and socialist aesthetics.

>>14388944
So you're saying if these cryptoliberals did read up they would probably renounce communism? Still remains to be seen why any of the petit bourgeois would seek to adopt socialist aesthetics and posture as communists in the first place. Is capitalist superstructure playing a sick joke on itself?

>>14388965
>So you're saying if these cryptoliberals did read up they would probably renounce communism?
Some of them, others would just become more overtly revisionist.
>Still remains to be seen why any of the petit bourgeois would seek to adopt socialist aesthetics and posture as communists in the first place.
The reason is same as always -- they feel like they're getting fucked by the big guys, but due to their eternal poverty they can have nothing of their own, so they can only respond by appropriating socialism. But this can be only ever done superficially, with bourgeois ideas at the base, because the aim of making the petty bourgeois existence safer and more comfortable is completely at odds with the aim of socialism, even though they might appear to converge at the surface "fuck the big guys!!! power to the regular person!!!"

>>14381478
Yes, a manteined by his wife for example...

>>14382011
Do you want my money, fruits of my work?