/lit/ - Literature

Is it just Tao te Ching and Zhuangzi?

just read the three classics over and over until the metaphors are part of your spontaneous vision of things. maybe some i ching would be useful there too.

also, you can complement with 2ndary sources, which are abundant, or academic papers if that suits you. but it aint necessary. they all have bibliographies that will link you to more material.

after that, you can go into the particular uses made of that classic stock through all chinese history, particularly in times of transition between dynasties (e.g. the seven sages of the bamboo grove, literati painting and poetry, etc).

>>14371672
and liezi

a bowl of centipedes every day

>>14371663
>Tired of Western trash.
ok guénonposter

>>14371663
Unironically start with the Introduction to the Studies of the Hindu Doctrines and take it from there.
Daodejing, Zhuangzi and Liezi you should be reading again and again throughout. As you make more progress in your study of advaita, the things you read there will start making more and more sense.
Afterwards you can move on to secondary works on Daoism.
Also start some kind of meditation practice, but I don't have a good reading recommendation for that.

Before or during your further study of the philosophy you might want to get into the history and the different sects of taoism.

This one was something I thought is a very brief but also extensive guide. The author doesn't go into too much depth of every category but gives a good overview and provides further reading material. That was something I found very helpful when you want to extend beyond the main scripts that are mentioned so often.
She slams Richard Wilhelms translation of Zhuangzi and the Tao te Ching quite hard even though I consider it to be quite solid work. But I'm also not an expert on that field so maybe I'm just salty my first edition translations into german language aren't that much worth in her eyes.

>>14372383
Taoism isn't some cultural phenomenon.

I was going to include an insult as well, but you're not really far enough along with your unlearning to even warrant such a thing.

>>14371663
>>14371672
I Ching is quintessential.
Tai Chi Classics is cool too, its Taoist martial art philosophy

>>14373544
Not really.

>>14373662
You have really swayed my opinion with your compelling and insightful post.

>>14371663
If you think Western religion and philosophy is trash then buckle up buddy

>>14371663
The Tao is eternal and everpresent, you don't get into it, it gets into you

>>14373698
Okay but just as long as it doesn’t cum inside

>>14373519
What are you even talking about nigger?

start learning chinese so you can read the original

Is there any reconciliation of Doaism with Western existentialism? It seems that the recognition of the Whole is intrinsically opposed the incompleteness of the For itself and the absurdist striving of the will.

>>14371663
Maybe the Visuddhimagga?

>>14373684
I wasn’t trying to

>>14374152
You’ll never know.

I've been studying the I Ching (Yijing) for 8 years and know it by heart, AMA

Read up on some Chinese paganism, Legalism, political history, and Confucianism as well as you study, to understand the context in which Daoism developed. As you become more familiar throw in some Chinese Buddhism as well. As for books, read:
>Wenzi
>I Ching
>Dao De Cheng
>Zhuangzi
>Liezi

>>14374820
>criticizing someone trying to understand Daoism by accusing them of not knowing

>>14374812
I was goading you into elaborating for the sake of discussion

>>14371672
Try chinese poetry in general. Meditate in nature. Retain your semen. Do taichi or yoga.

I think people try and make of it something more than it is.

>>14371663
>>14373544
>I Ching commentaries by Taoist adept Liu I-ming in 1796 of the Clear Serene branch of the Complete Reality school of Taoism

QUANZHEN DAO (COMPLETE REALITY TAOISM)
".. a number f its artifacts, such as the exercise system known as Tai Chi Chuan and certain meditation techniques, have long since passed into the public domain as part of the general lore of body-mind health."

precursor of the Dragon Gate Sect (Longmen Pai)
Complete Reality Taoism was the first Taoist Sect to establish a system that successfully blended and harmonized the "Three Teachings" (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanzhen_School
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Gate_Taoism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COS1yI8ZQZk

>>14374901
What's the most valuable lesson you've gleaned from it over the years?

Take psychedelics. No, seriously.

copypasta 1/2

>best modern scholarly English translation and commentary of the Dao De Jing:
>Dao De Jing: A Philosophical Translation (Ames)
>intriguing German Idealist translation (English ttanslations of the translation available) and commentary:
>Tao Te Ching: Book of Meaning and Life (Wilhelm)
>poetic English translation without commentary:
>Tao Te Ching: The Book of the Way (Mitchell)
>for the lulz occult English translation:
>Tao Teh King: Liber CLVII (Crowley)
>best English version of Chuang Tzu:
>Complete Works of Zhuangzi (Watson)
>comfy Christian-ized version:
>Way of Chuang Tzu (Merton)
>Best I-Ching:
>read a few... I suggest Wilhelm (translation of translation again), Cleary (there's a comfy pocket sized version), and Huang
>Eventually you will probably want or need all of Cleary's Daoist Classics (Four Volumes) in English
>and for why tf not:
>Secret of the Golden Flower (Jung)

for the laotzu:
the waley translation and its introductory study are well reputed in academia
>the way and its power by a. waley
i havent read it but just found the dc lau translation. he is usually a good translator and his introductions are of authority (eg the analects and the mencius)
>lao tzu tao te ching by d.c. lau

for the chuang tzu:
the version by ac graham has an indispensable introduction and an interesting organization of the text. it is an almost full translation contrary to its title. totally worth checking after one is familiar with the text
>the seven inner chapters by a.c. graham
the version by mair is a good complement to that of watson, from a literary pov.
>wandering on the way by v. mair
i would add the liehtzu, it has good texts in the vein of chuangtzu
the best translation is that of graham. there is and old one without the yangchu chapter and a recent one by eva wong that is something between a paraphrase and an actual translation.
>the book of lieh tzu by a.c. graham
>lieh-tzu a taoist guide to practical living by e. wong

for the i ching:
the wilhelm translation is indeed the most read, but maybe should be taken with a grain of salt: he was a christian missionary and sometimes his translation is criticized on those grounds.
the blofeld translation is a good one too.
>i ching the book of change by j. blofeld
i would add the studies made by wilhelm's son, they throw some light.
>heaven, earth, and man in the book of changes by h. wilhelm
>understanding the I ching by h. wilhelm

>>14376170
2/2

a couple of additions to the classics:
the guanzi has some important texts in the vein of the laotzu, that are even better imo, notably the nei yeh or inward training.
>the original tao by h. roth
the huainantzu might be a bit biased by its political motivations but it still has interesting passages. there are several translations
>wikipedia.org/wiki/Huainanzi

and finally a couple of chan treatises that are good to further ones path after the classics:
the classic of the linji school, the linjilu
>the zen teachings of master lin-chi by b. watson
the piyenlu, the biggest gong'an (koan) collection and a basic for those into chan/zen
>the blue cliff record by t. cleary

>the virgin lao tzu vs the chad heraclitus

>>14376170
>best translation of the Dao De Jing
>Hall & Ames
Don't listen to this anon. He is feeding you Whiteheadian lies that westernizes and corrupts Taoism. Everything else is alright though.

>>14376219
>Hall & Ames
Is that the “philosophical” translation? that shit was awful, totally unreadable nonsense

Eastern "philosophy" in a nutshell
>nothing is everything bro
>we are all one
>and the one is also inside each of us
>some random witty pun about a donkey and an emperor
>the one is totally eternal but it's also like dual because one is all
>some story about a fish transforming into a dragon
>one who lives according to THE one is the best
There, saved you a couple of hundred pages of deep eastern thought

>>14376250
nothing the east produced can ever compare in quality with the greeks. there is no slant eyed gook or poo in loo version of aeschylus or thucydides, nor could there be

>>14376250
>>14376256
t. philosophical dick measuring bigot

>>14376271
aeschylus and thucydides aren’t philosophers

>>14376271
anyone with any balls nowadays is bound to be a bigot. if you aren’t a bigot you are probably low on testosterone

>>14376250
I have to admit this is the impression I get too. This 'all if one' stuff just makes me think that if that's the case then literally nothing matters, it doesn't matter what happens, because it's all an illusion anyway and the same thing.

It's not like Christian theology is really much better though. The problem of evil is as big an issue for it

>>14376278
>bigot
I usually don't point this out for fear of sounding like Ben Shapiro owning the libs with logic and facts, but what the progressives have done to the word 'bigot' is really astonishing.

It originally, and even now officially if you look it up, meant 'intolerant of people with other opinions'. It now literally means 'person who has opinions I can't tolerate' eg. racism, sexism, etc.

>>14376284
>if that's the case then literally nothing matters, it doesn't matter what happens, because it's all an illusion anyway and the same thing
there’s a series of articles guenon and evola wrote arguing eachother where evola says exactly that as an argument against guenon’s advaita position. evola himself was just repeating the arguments already made by tantrists against the “all is one” philosophy of the vedantists. i agree with you that it makes everything completely pointless

>>14376284
it's the universal content of mystical experience, there has to be something to it.

>>14376278
If you are a bigot you are not a true man.
Its only good to be bigoted against bigots.

>>14376305
no that’s dumb and you’re probably a pussy

>>14376291
Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

>>14376309
Being hateful and prejudiced doesnt mean you are courageous, heroic, or noble; its not virtuous in any way. Its ugly and stems from fear and weakness.

>>14376318
The 'especially' literally does not follow from the original definition. Race and ethnicity are not opinions

Saying that races are equal or unequal are both opinions, bigotry strictly would be intolerance towards believing either that they're equal or not equal.

>>14376329
god damn you sound like a faggot, cry more

>>14376339
quiet now phoneposter, go back to sleep

>>14376333
If you are racist, if you hate or are prejudice against other races, then by definition you are a bigot.

>>14376219
Which translation is best then?

>>14376394
yeah if you change the meaning to not be 'intolerant of other opinions' which was my entire point. Race is not an opinion

>>14376414
don’t even argue with that faggot, he’s probably just trolling or shitposting anyway

>Therefore the sage, in the exercise of his government, empties their minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones. He constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it).

daofags will defend this

>>14376414
Are you saying that the meaning shouldn't have changed?

>>14371663
Its shit

>>14376452
the chad western trash vs the virgin eastern shit

>>14376456
t. fallacious either/or false dichotomy bigot

>>14376450
Im saying it's funny that the meaning changed to practically the opposite of the original one. Nobody is more fanatically intolerant of opinions than antiracist types.

>>14376467
Its the Tolerance Paradox
Its good and right to be intolerant of intolerance

>>14376474
I don't care what you do, Im just pointing out that the definition of the word inverted

>>14376480
yeah bigots are weird

>>14376271
Then debunk me

>>14371663
Find a local kung fu academy that teaches qi gong & tai chi. Choy le fut is great because they will teach a holistic 5 or 6 stage system that will take your lifetime to master.
begin practicing zhan zhuang, an easy intro is Lam Kam Chuens the way of energy, for a more scholarly approach look for books by his master.
Look at the stanford encyclopedias entries on daoism and neo-daosim.
for the dao de jing, pick a translation then memorize it. see: the art of memory, look for how to memorize poems. refer to point one, this is daoism. the practice of the internal or external arts. through practice you will begin to comprehend what is meant by lao tzu.
To properly interpret the dao de jing, bruce frantzis has an online course that costs $15 a month. You still have to get of your arse and practice.
Best translation of Zhuangzi is titled wandering on the way.
For more books look Golden Elixer Press. They have some great essays on the Dao. Alot of its available freely. The book they have on Neidan (Internal Alchemy) is great if you want a daoist meditation.
Intellectual understanding will not get you enlightened. Practice will. Practice make the process fun and give immediate gratification to a life long process. Take refuge in the three treasures.
Studying some buddhism then zen to see the intersection helps too.
To experience Wu Wei Wu early meditate in a state where you allow the attention to move freely. at some point the body will take over. allow it to move freely so that the attention and body move as one. (amphetamine helps). get up and go for a walk, you will feel what is meant by the Dao. its difficult to put into words. but its allowing the process of external reality and internal self to move as one. idk. i'm still figuring this shit out.

>>14371663
Tao De Ching, Get copy with auto translation in the back so you can retranslated the crappy poety try hards like to meme as Daoism,
Also buy Confucious, but not the whole selection, Hes the structure part of Dao, and Zhu is the chaos part,

Also read Journey to the East or audiobook, and some Eastern Buddist philosophy, my fav being, "A flower dies despite our love, a weed grows despite our hate."

>>14374916
>trying to "understand" Taoism

>>14374935
You failed

>>14376401
Not that anon

I prefer D.C. Lau's

>>14376948
>''trying'' Daoism

>>14376967
>"Trying"

>>14376256
t. hasn't read any of the puranas and probably doesn't even know what they are but likes to talk out of his ass anyway

>>14376981

>>14376148
A question that is harder to answer than I expected. I guess it gave me a more broaden view of each situation, as if s a matrix of possibilities stemming from each thing and that our ordinary moral compass and reason more often than not blocks these possibilities. It gives us a certain distance. Talking about it with people I realize the western common sense always brings a "good vs evil" sort of thing. Yin and Yang are not really about that, even if it might fit too in some cases, it's more of a figure-ground thing or an up-down thing, or that you can't have a one sided coin. The Yijing also gave me room and method to associate and learn from various different things, drawing parallels between government-people, me-others, or inner world and acting in the world, whether these are small or big.

>>14376170
>the wilhelm translation is indeed the most read, but maybe should be taken with a grain of salt: he was a christian missionary and sometimes his translation is criticized on those grounds.
the blofeld translation is a good one too.
>i ching the book of change by j. blofeld

I'd still recommend Willhelm translation over all others even it has its problems. Blofeld also have them. The best translation for a westerner is to search several of them for any given hexagram. More recently you have Rutt, Huang and Shaughnessy's translations, which are also good (and also with problems). It's an impossible book to translate anyway, it doesn't even presents itself clearly in chinese and archeological discoveries are always bringing new interpretations.

>>14376339
he's right though dude. being controlled by your emotions is weak and infantile

>>14376446
yea that part I'm not a big fan of. I lean more towards Zen anyway

>>14377192
very based holy shit

>>14374906
Too comfy to muster up rage.

>>14376329
Next, you're gonna say diversity is our strength.

>>14376446
There is literally nothing wrong with this. When people start to reason instead of focusing on what's necessary in life, they will think in more abstract terms and bitch and moan about "rights", and what gender they are, which leads to the idol shitshow that we have today. None of these things deal with putting food on the damn table.

>>14378070
>trying too hard now

>>14376188
>Jorjani
You're a brainlet.

>>14371663
But the Chinese themselves consider the "Western trash" so intelligent and cognizant that they've held multiple civil wars in order to impose it.

>>14371663
You do realize the West doesn't have a singular philosophical vision or ideology that defines its intellectuals, right? Even during Ancient Greece you had many philosophers of different viewpoints arguing against one another. To a lesser extent, this also applied to ancient China, but there was a lessening of diversity of thought throughout their ages. In the case of the West, there seemed to be a growing diversity of philosophical thought, if anything.

u gotta roll sum up first !!