/lit/ - Literature

Such is the Mind which is energized before energy, while yet it had not gone forth, but abode in the Paternal Depth, and in the Adytum of God nourished silence.

>>14341607
The Logos IS God, dude.

Capital

>>14341607
Essence precedes manifestation

>>14341652
But before God, there must be the requisite Logos for him to manifest. Thereby, the Logos is supreme and not god, but something entirely different.

>>14341607
Gnostic cosmology is sophisticated. This is one of the best images that describes it.

Most Gnostics dont think of the creator of the world as God, they think the Monad is God (the Logos). Yaldabaoth is a lesser deity

>>14341774
And Yaldabaoth uses the Logos as the divine plan for the universe (read Platos Timaeus for more info on this)

Thats why the Gospel of John talks about God creating everything "through the Logos"

>>14341789
It’s more like the Logos uses Yaldabaoth.

>>14341761
did you get this from the aquinas thread

>>14341774
So essentially, it's only a minor variation of the actual Catholic cosmogony, the primary difference being a denial of the body of Christ, and therefore the Eucharist, which is the instrument of Salvation.

Further, it denies the omnipotence of God, the Father, which should immediately break the entire system. Please read Augustine's Confessions and understand his criticisms of the Manichaeans.

>>14341607
Gnosticism is the ultimate cope.
Logos is human, cant be superior to God.
There is no essence. There is only one substance and logos is part of it, not it itself.

>>14341876
It’s just something I’ve been thinking about lately. Why? What about this thread was similar to my post?

>>14342077
Logos is not human. Everything but the Logos is our interpretation of the Logos.

>>14341691
Prove it.

>>14341761
>before God
Come on now

>>14342683
I’m sorry, but Logos is truly superior to God. Without Logos, God is unintelligible.

>>14342780
You are sorry

>>14342780
But isn’t logos simply the lense to perceive? If god is unintelligible, he’s still god. Logos is the interpretive medium.

Jesus is logos but Jesus is not God.
checkmate atheists

>>14341607
For me it's McDonalds Logos

>>14342683
yes?
God is the Pure Actuality of what we cannot know in of himself, the absolute power of possible existence beyond the personal and impersonal, neither subject or object, neither particular or general.

>>14341761
Alongside God is the Nothingness, the Void. Read Bohme.

>>14341607
1. The entity depicted in the image attached to your post is the Demiourgos, Ialdabaoth, not God.

2. Logos is the selfrestituting motion of Sofia via her children, through the triad process, which permeates all Life.

3. God comprehends Logos; Logos is fulfilled through God's grace.

>>14341607
XD "is god better then god"

>>14341920

>So essentially, it's only a minor variation of the actual Catholic cosmogony,
major
>the primary difference being a denial of the body of Christ,
no
>and therefore the Eucharist, which is the instrument of Salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9

>Further, it denies the omnipotence of God, the Father, which should immediately break the entire system.
how?
>Please read Augustine's Confessions and understand his criticisms of the Manichaeans.
original sin is man-made doctrine. the gnostic convert couldn't shake the gnosticism so he wrote it into the system.
nice meme

Reminder to ignore all pseudointellectual rhetoriticians and instead go and read the complete works of Homer, Pindar, Plato, Aristotle, Sophocles, Euripedes, Hesiod, Aristophones, Herodotus, Sappho, Plutarch, Ovid, Virgil, Lucretius, Arisoto, Horace, St. Augustine, Marcus Aurelius, Rabelais, Dante, Petrarch, Boccaccio, Machiavelli, Luther, Cervantes, Chaucer, the Beowulf poet, Chretien de Troyes, Marie de France, Sterne, Burton, Browne, Wyatt, Sidney, Percy Shelley, Tennyson, Donne, Pope, Dryden, Bacon, Novalis, Schelling, Schlegal, Hegel, Pascal, Lichtenberg, Dickinson, Shakespeare, Ibsen, Dickens, Marlowe, Diderot, Jonson, Goethe, Bunyan, Gibbon, Addison, Smollett, Milton, Johnson, Boswell, Emerson, Quincey, Burke, Spinoza, Leibniz, Hume, Kant, Mary Shelley, Wollstonecraft, Racine, Baudelaire, Valery, Rimbaud, Verlaine, Moliere, Montaigne, Browning, Gray, Holderlin, Schiller, Shaw, Voltaire, Hugo, Balzac, Zola, Colette, Duras, Dumas, Stendhal, Nerval, Flaubert, Mallarme, Malraux, Chateaubriand, Artaud, Poe, Wordsworth, Coleridge, Blake, Byron, Keats, Arnold, Pater, Walter Scott, Swinburne, Rossetti, Carroll, William James, Henry James, Hawthorne, Twain, Melville, Dewey, Bergson, Whitehead, George Eliot, Williams, Frost, Cummings, Crane, Stevens, Whitman, Plath, Trakl, Rilke, Celan, Montale, Neruda, Lorca, Tagore, Manzoni, Peake, Murdoch, Wharton, Wilde, Leopardi, Faulkner, O'Connor, Passos, Nietzsche, Marx, Adorno, Bloch, Lukacs, Bakhtin, Hamsun, Pushkin, Gogol, Tolstoy, Turgenev, Chekhov, Andreyev, Bely, Bulgakov, Gonchorov, Camoes, Pessoa, Queiroz, Saramago, Paz, Borges, Bloy, Pirandello, Huysmans, Lautreamont, Schwob, Casares, Bolano, Cortazar, Lima, Donoso, de Assis, Carpentjier, Celine, Marquez, Unamuno, Gracq, Gide, Jarry, Camus, Conrad, Wells, Hardy, Salinger, Lawrence, Forster, Hrabal, Swift, Bronte, Woolf, Bachelard, Roussel, Beckett, Proust, Nabokov, Joyce, O'Brien, Yeats, Waugh, Heaney, Auden, Hofmannsthal, Mann, Musil, Broch, Zweig, Bachmann, Jelinek, Lessing, Laxness, Simenon,Svevo, Levi, Buzzati, Quasimodo, Llosa, Walser, Kafka, Babel, Schulz, Transtromer, Kertesz, Pavic, Andric, Grossmann,Sillanpää, Linna, Mahfouz, Boll, Grass, Canetti, Pavese, Robbe-Grillet, Blanchot, Perec, Calvino, Bernhard, Gass, Barth, Gaddis, Vollmann, Vidal, Hawkes, DeLillo, Pynchon, McElroy, Soseki, Murasaki, Shonagon, Kawabata, Mishima, Akutagawa, Tanizaki, Dazai, Oe, Xinjiang, Yan, Kosztolanyi, Gombrowicz, Ishiguro, Eco, Coetzee, Auerbach, Benjamin, Barthes, Pasternak, Derrida, Deleuze, Bateson, Foucault, Lyotard, Mcluhan, Eichenbaum, Steiner, Munro, Carson, Handke, Theroux, Patrick White, Alfau, Marias, Enard, Claude Simon, Elizabeth Bishop, Markson, Lowry, Bellow, Dara..

>>14341920

Most of what is called "gnostic" is not Manichaean.

God is the Highest. If the Logos is God, then they are equal. If the Logos is begotten by God and therefore less than Him, it is not as good. Plotinus made a good point. If the physical world is evil, and modelled of the World of Ideas, which is also created by God, then how could it be preferable since its imperfections would be the source of our own?
Gnostic metaphysics are just a shitty way of adressing the problem of evil

>>14343620
Original sin is apparent in the weakness and corruption of the will away from the Good

>>14342636
cope in that mirror trap, you illiterate scum

>>14343235
No, Logos is the superseding structure which gives things possibility. >>14343310
No, that’s not it.
>>14344176
There’s nothing to cope, it’s one of the few objective truths.

>>14341920
Manichaeans get lumped under the umbrella of Gnostic thought by historians, but they are a very different belief structure. Augustine btfo'd Mani, but nothing he said addressed, critiqued, or dismantled Gnostic belief.
In case you mistakenly equate the concept of Divine Spark with Pride as the fundamental sin according to Augustine, please note that there's a difference from loving oneself and being in love with oneself.

>>14343630
Sorry, I'm busy reading Victoria Aveyard. I think I'll continue satisfying my theological pursuits with simple.wikipedia.org.

>>14342636
Jesus was the Logos big dummy. He was human and divine.

>>14341607

>>14345165

the honeypot that glows in the dark

>>14341774
>see this and think it's crazy mystical pagan bullshit
>the light hits you one day and it's all true

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHGGGHHHH i feel like i'm in a box someone is sitting on FUCK

>>14345180
It's never too late to achieve Christ Consciousness, anon.
The Monad will wait forever to be reunited with your Divine Spark. It exists outside of chrological conceptions, after all.

>>14341607
I am baphomet desu

>>14345269
pretty based if true, I'm a fan of your work

>>14345163
>human and divine.
That's redundant.

>>14341607
>nothing superior to nothing.
Only philosophy that is tested is superior.

>>14341834
correct

>>14345180
yeah I was a regular "Orthodox" Christian for ages, but then I started reading this Gnostic, Platonic and Neoplatonic shit and realised there is so much more metaphysics that went right over the heads of the church fathers

>>14341761
So we're just making shit up now?

>>14341607
Yes.

>>14341652
redundant ontology

>>14341920
>>14342077
>>14343168
>>14343511
>>14343630
>>14345163
t. subhuman Hylics

Anyone interested in learning about Gnosticism, I would recommend reading through the Platonic and Neoplatonic texts first, because Gnosticism is based on that.

Remember Plotinus's text "against the Gnostics" is actually called "Against those who affirm the creator God to be Evil" The only sect of Gnostics who believed this view were the Sethians (and the later Cathars) Who then did reorganise their worldview in the later texts taking into account Plotinus's criticisms.

Neoplatonism and Gnosticism are the same thing at their core, though Gnosticism has taken in much more Christian influence

>>14346143
>Good lecture series on Neoplatonism/Plotinus
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCNCTNPBEbC5LMJdciPnG-Q

>Free source for all Gnostic texts
http://gnosis.org/welcome.html

>>14341761
That wouldn't make sense. If God needed to manifest "from" something doesn't that defeat the whole point of his primacy?

>>14346160
There is nothing before "God". But God existed before the Demiurge.

>>14346143
Thr creator is evil, though.

>>14346169
Not possible. The creator is completely subordinate to the Logos/Monad. Thats why the Sethians had to completely rewrite their cosmology in later texts like Allogenes the stranger to account for Plotinus's criticisms.

Yaldabaoth is prideful and Ignorant of the true nature of reality, but not Evil (He is the Indra from Hinduism)

>>14346143
Good post

>>14346143
Your post is typical of that made by a nondiscerning judeochristian useful idiot; it is posts like these that promote the syncretic confusion that is present in this thread.

Gnosticism and Christianity are the same thing, the former name gradually obscuring, and displacing, the latter name, with the gradual decline of what both names - particularly the former - originally referred to - that is, the teachings of Jesus Christ, divulged by his disciples - in direct proportion to the rise of judeochristianity, a judaized corruption of Christianity/Gnosticism, just as "Neoplatonism" is a judeochristian corruption of Platonism.

Platonism, Catharism, Manichaeism, are comprehended by authentic Christianity.

>>14346865
Can you rewrite that without being a stuck up fucking Pseud.

Neoplatonism wasnt influenced by Christianity, Porphyry wrote a book against Christianity debunking it...

I know Gnosticism was the original teachings of Jesus. But can you tell my why there were inconsistencies and contradictions between the Valentinian and Sethian schools of thought? If they both came from Jesus's disciples

>>14341761
retard

>>14341652
/thread

>>14346143
If you read Against the Gnostics you would see that Plotinus argues against the entire cosmology of gnsotcism

are Logos threads the best thing to happen to 4channel this decade?

>>14346921
Kill yourself

>>14346923
I have read it. If you had actually read Valentinian cosmology you would know there is no contradiction

How can you name something and not know what it is?

>>14346950
Idk, Christards worship Jesus without knowing what he really was.

>>14341652
this, it literally says so at the beginning of the bible

>>14346105
in fairness we have been from the start

>>14341607
No.
For the Gnostics, the head of the pleroma procession was not Logos. For some it was Bythos, the deep/profundity/abyss.
For the Neoplatonists, Logos was Nous, beneath the One.
For the Hellenistic Jews, Logos was again, beneath God, being his Word.
For the Christians, Logos was yet again beneath God, being his Word.
There is no one who claims Logos was above God. Don't confuse yourself: if you're saying Logos was greater than Yaldabaoth, of course that's true within Gnosticism. But Yaldabaoth isn't God, he's only the Gnostic demiurge. The funny thing is that for Plato and the Neoplatonists, the title of demiurge is instead reserved for Nous/Logos, just as it is for the Christians and Hellenistic Jews who make Logos the direct creator of the world. The Gnostics are the only ones who split Logos and the demiurge the way they do.

>>14341774
oh my god this is all true isn't it