/lit/ - Literature

>>14301640
Just read it. It’s short, easy and influential.

>Reproduction is not the ultimate goal of high organisms, but self development and ownership of space
>In previous eras like the Bronze Age the human animal was in an environment perfectly suited to developing his capacities in mind and body
>These eras provided plenty of opportunity for the conquest of space and the flourishing of man
>The modern era is not one of these eras
>It is suffocating and makes you GAY
>You must seek in any avenue the conquest of space and your total development
>A new era of human flourishing may be around the corner
>The capitalize on this opportunity you should position yourself and your close friends favorably
>This may include but is not limited to joining your country's military, intelligence community, civil service or financial institutions
>Also if you're ugly don't bother reading this book because nothing written in it describes or affects you

>>14301683
>ownership of space
That'll only happen when we achieve communism. So is this book pro-communism?

>>14301809
Except communism is against private ownership.
Do you have any idea what you're talking about

>A new era of human flourishing may be around the corner

Why is this? Civilizational collapse?

>>14301640
It's a Twitter meme of no value. If you heard about it on 4chan, it's because /lit/ has become filled with leftypol and twitter migrants.

Reddit shit for midwits

>>14301640
modern world is like suffocating matriarchal mudhut of old dead precursor to great civilization where everyone suckle at the teet of obese wahmen, adopt doctrine of sun & steel and become a pirate lest you decline into insectdom

>>14301870
Social ownership. Heard about it?

>>14301926
sounds gay, i wouldnt want to share anything with anyone who insists sharing is moral a priori

>>14301947
It's not a moral requirement. It's a material requirement. Social ownership is the only way to achieve your so called "ownership of space".

>>14301899
I haven't finished it yet, but I am into the meme.
>American Affairs Journal
>American Mind
>Palladium Podcast
Between this and leftist calls for capitalist reform / socialism / communism, it does feel like change is on the horizon.

>>14301640
Its based on a bunch on misconceptions about the bronze age

>>14301926
Well this is clearly talking about individual ownership.

>>14301870
Communism is against the private ownership of capital less they use their advantage to exploit. They aren't going to steal your tooth brush

>>14301981
Then it's idealistic meme shit. I'm not reading it.

>>14301683
so what I'm getting from this is that global collapse is the only way?

>>14301981
During the post-scarcity space age there will be enough space front to go around for everyone to live if they so choose

>>14301970
this is an awful roundabout way of trying to convince frogtwitter people to help you install communism so you can get free weed after theyre thrown into gulags.
plenty of ways to obtain land that don't require communism or 'social ownership', fk outta here.

>>14301990
>idealistic meme shit
>unlike my totally plausible system of belief

>>14302029
Its materialist not idealistic. You should at least skim the wikipedia article before trying to argue

>>14302041
idealistic is not the same thing as idealist kek

>>14302041
>akTHually
communist aesthetics are always idealist appeals, fuck off nerd

>>14302022
What the fuck are you even on about. If you thought about it for a minute, you'd realize that it's not materially possible to achieve a Type III (even a Type II would be next to impossible, but capital tends to surprise sometimes, I'll give it that) civilization in the Kardashev scale without first establishing communism.

>>14302029
Read Marx. You're embarrasing yourself my dude.

>>14302060
>argue against my fantasy that don't exist/have never existed
retard

>>14302076
Well, my argument could be completely derived from the second law of thermodynamics. I don't think you'd want to argue against that, am I right?

>>14302060
>kardashev scale
holy shit you fucking techno optimists are the most retarded people on the planet. you think just because cheap oil and some other easy resources propelled us to an age of rapid tech advancement that we will keep "advancing" to the future like in your gay star wars and star trek films. you've swallowed all the wholesale propaganda like a good fucking lapdog. we're never getting off this planet you fucking retards. we're going to run out of cheap energy resources that propelled us into our current age and then we'll go back to medieval tier society. I can't wait to see the grins ripped off your retarded faces. stop buying into bullshit fantasy future scenarios written by fat cats in their offices with nothing better to do

>>14302051
>>14302052
I am referring to Idealism ala Hegel

>>14302092
no it can't because there are human agents in between thermodynamics and your goal, and the humans who want the system you think will bring us to mars only want it because they think they'll get free weed and tendies forever, sorry karl musk but your retarded plot is DOA

>>14302093
Dude, I'm (the Anon you responded to) a pessimistic communist. I don't think we're getting out of this planet either. I name dropped the Kardashev scale because this guy >>14301683 said that the book's main thesis was that the ultimate goal of high organism was the "ownership of space". I'm just refuting the book's thesis by pointing out the contradiction between "space ownership" and private ownership (which the book endorses I presume).

>>14302103
A capitalist society can be modeled in terms of a thermodynamic system, boomer. And it can be shown that such society bites its own tail waaay (meaning it starts consuming more energy than it produces, EVERY SIMULATION of such system results in this) before the 4×10^44 erg/sec of energy consumption (i.e. Type III).

And my thesis is not that communism will bring us to Mars or wherever. Again, I'm a pesimistic communist. My thesis is that it's the only economic system that COULD bring us to achieve Type III levels of energy consuption.

>>14301809
>>14301870
>>14301926
>>14302132
This is an absolutely fucking retarded conversation that has nothing to do with The Bronze Age Mindset. Your IQ must be room temperature if you think the "ownership of space" that BAP talks about is home ownership.
>>14301899
BAP does not imply you need total anarchy for the possibility of adventure or conquest- just a loosening of the grip currently imposed by how well run the world is now. As an example, mercenaries in Africa is the second half of the 20th century lived such lives. Pirates in the age of sail. Civilization existed in both of these eras.

>>14302132
wow dude you're really blowing my mind, ever hear of the fermi paradox?

>>14302156
I don't know what "ownership of space" is exactly. But what I can tell you is that capitalist societies won't be exploring space because they just collapse before that point.

>>14302168
Shit my bad dude, I thought you were a 16 year old communist trying to bring up his pet ideology for no reason but I only just realized you were baiting me by pretending to think I was referring to outer space rather than the concept of space used in day to day language
Now I'M the retard. Funny how that works.

>>14301683
First half decent summary I've seen of this book on /lit/

>>14302156
>BAP does not imply you need total anarchy for the possibility of adventure or conquest- just a loosening of the grip currently imposed blahblahblah
that's a pretty trivial thesis that is literally contained in a large chunk of 20th century lit/art.

The aesthetic is a just too forced from BAP and his ilk. Theres so much performance on how Slavic/athletic/intelligent/artistic they are, yet most of it is just insistence and nothing of substance. If you were actually intelligent or cultural or adventurous you wouldnt have to pathologically keep loudly insisting you were to legions of frog followers and insecure anons

>>14302851
I like the book but I agree with you. Playing devil's advocate, Frog Twitter is essentially dead. Hell, Twitter as a whole has been dying and totally irrelevant outside of 2016 for the last six years. BAP and his friends are essentially a skeleton crew propping up frog twitter, it's unclear if they realize or accept the moment is over. Everything they do or say in that context is inevitably going to be kind of cringe and anachronistic. Anton and and the Clairmont Institute picking up BAM and talking about it was fun and vaguely exciting but it went nowhere.
I will also say while I like BAP I always thought Frog Twitter as a whole was super gay.

>>14301683
This was a great rundown but you really should but more emphasis on the mannerbund element. It is the engine of such development (no homo).

>>14302181
kek

>>14301683
>These eras provided plenty of opportunity for the conquest of space and the flourishing of man
>The modern era is not one of these eras
>It is suffocating and makes you GAY
With how much BAF*ggot posts men, I wonder things.

>>14302870
>I like the book but I agree with you.
Yeah I mean I don't like the book because the aesthetic and writing is just annoying, but I do identify with his thesis. I have fairly opposite politics/mindset to him though, so for me the more interesting thing is watching how he connects a true but trivial premise (broader society is repressive and self-actualization and adventure/experience are virtues) with a conclusion/call to action that is incredibly self-obsessed. Instead of viewing self-actualization as a humble journey or making the most of our brief period on earth, it becomes about performing ones greatness and arrogantly both ignoring/dismissing wide swaths of human history and also projecting your own half-baked ideas onto the evolving future. The bronze age mindset is ironically not very bronze age because it is extraordinarily built around your individual ego and your superficial reaction against various universals; that's basically the opposite of pre-modernist mindsets.

>>14302938
Based. BA Goyop is really nothing more than s shekel-sucking machine meant to leech off of the naive and unsuspecting disenfranchised young men who have been cast out of contemporary society. It’s sad.

>>14302952
Jew obsessed dude who is in every BAP thread finally making an appearance
>>14302938
I think he makes a good case that that type of individualism has a historical precedence. I'm not fully sure I understand what you like about his thesis though, since from my perspective it's mostly about rising above the steaming rat pile of collectivist long houses and oriental cities to develop yourself into the best human animal you can be.

>>14302982
BAF*ggot really is that, a faggot. There is no doubt in my mind that this man is born into wealth and has been afforded a luxury life. He offers up lukewarm philosophy while promoting his brand as if it’s some utopian forming ideal in order to reach as wide a swath of young dissident men as possible. He’s a conman through and through, and is a literal nobody in a sea of literal nobodies who are 100x more influential than he is. Your head is stuck in some reality which isn’t representative of the real world in any manner. Get dabbed on, faggot.

>>14303003
I missed you too

>>14302982
>since from my perspective it's mostly about rising above the steaming rat pile of collectivist long houses and oriental cities to develop yourself into the best human animal you can be.
I mean ignoring the slightly bait parts of what you wrote, that's what I said before. This should be fairly obvious but... rising above the stupifying and repressive conditions around you for self development is also an important motivating point in left anarchist thought (more my politics/culture). So we have similar premises but different conclusions, that's at the very least interesting for me to read. My point is that "developing yourself into the best human animal you can be" becomes a vain and egotistical exercise for him, instead of a humbling and enlightening one. Although, again, performing flamboyantly on twitter to insecure young men is pretty fucking far from being the best human animal you can be, so BAP is hardly a paradigm of this.

>I think he makes a good case that that type of individualism has a historical precedence
There's a sleight of hand being done when you "that type of". He accurately points out forms of individualism in history; you (and he) inaccurately link your own (/his own) version to that. His individual is distinctly created from modernism and in relation to modernism. It is also shaped both by and against universals from Christian and Enlightenment thought that would be alien to pre-Greek thought. There is almost nothing in common between how he contextualizes the self and how previous humans would have, even if the proximate actions and ideas bear similar relation, especially re: individualism.

>>14303037
>There is almost nothing in common between how he contextualizes the self and how previous humans would have, even if the proximate actions and ideas bear similar relation, especially re: individualism.
Fair enough, at this point we have nothing left to say to each other. Arguing this point would get us bogged down into essentially academic-tier pedantry, bringing up various sources we think support either conception of individualism. My classics knowledge is insufficient to make a good case either way. Still, I reserve the right to be skeptical you truly know everything about classical society and their conception of growth and the individual whereas BAP is the ultimate charlatan who knows nothing. Even if that is the case I couldn't care less, since living in the modern world is like living in a black hole; I will never be able to escape its influence on my mind, and the vainglory presented by BAP is the funnest part of the whole thing.

>>14303053
> Even if that is the case I couldn't care less, since living in the modern world is like living in a black hole; I will never be able to escape its influence on my mind, and the vainglory presented by BAP is the funnest part of the whole thing.
And this is why you and your movement inevitably fails every time. You don’t care and are willing to mentally disconnect yourself from the people who do care and have no actual quarrel with the way the world currently is. It’s a form of cognitive dissonance akin to what women do when they are faced with taking up any form of responsibility for their actions. Smoke and mirrors, through and through.

Also, good job on completely dismissing the heavy hitting parts of the previous anons response. You clearly don’t have a firm ground with which you can base your rhetoric. Sad!

>>14303088
>you and your movement
I have nothing to do with the movement
>fails every time
The movement failed exactly once, when it failed to reach a wide audience. There was no subsequent failure after that since the movement never began in earnest
>You don’t care and are willing to mentally disconnect yourself from the people who do care
All the people who care about how classical Greece viewed individualism?
>have no actual quarrel with the way the world currently is
I can't tell if you're telling me I'm disconnected from the people who like the current world or people who dislike the current world
>good job on completely dismissing the heavy hitting parts of the previous anons response
The parts about egotism? Or the part about BAP being a loser on Twitter? The former I said I enjoyed the egotism, the latter is irrelevant since BAP could literally be an HIV infected 4'9 micronesian homosexual prostitute and it would have no impact on the substance of the text of BAM.

>>14303053
>Still, I reserve the right to be skeptical you truly know everything about classical society and their conception of growth and the individual whereas BAP is the ultimate charlatan who knows nothing.
I wouldn't claim to say that. In fact I would steer clear of saying positively *what* they thought, and keep mostly at observing what they likely did not. I would never use pre-literate anthropology as a reason for my current views.

>since living in the modern world is like living in a black hole; I will never be able to escape its influence on my mind
I agree, its why I feel the whole bronze age/history shit is kind of a pathetic LARP

>>14303105
>kind of a pathetic LARP
The nucleus of our disagreement, maybe. I don't take myself seriously, and BAP doesn't take himself seriously either. I find it fun rather than pathetic. I would go as far as to say the book is equal parts """philosophy'''' and comedy, and that its comedic aspects are the least touched upon when the book is discussed.

I want to read it, but I fear that it's pretty much what a few of these posts are essentially saying -- that it's a perversion of past ideas others have come up with in order to fit some contrived ideal. I'm noticing a weird trend with these types of "accelerationist" works. It's like they're trying to extricate themselves from the values of our culture, but can't do so meaningfully, so they hide behind words, memes, and irony. Anyways, for what it's worth, I know BAP borrows some ideas from Yukio Mishima. Read Sun and Steel. Mishima actually lived what he wrote about.

>>14303116
>Lol guys it’s just a prank none of this is serious
>Now give me your shekels so you can listen to my podcast
>>14303102
>BAP could literally be an HIV infected 4'9 micronesian homosexual prostitute and it would have no impact on the substance of the text of BAM.
The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

>>14303227
good job on completely dismissing the heavy hitting parts of the previous anons response

>>14303229
What a pedantic little faggot you are. No wonder you suck BAF*ggots cock.

>>14301683
>>Also if you're ugly don't bother reading this book because nothing written in it describes or affects you
cruel but true

>>14302938
>built around your individual ego and your superficial reaction against various universals; that's basically the opposite of pre-modernist mindsets.
you are thinking of the wrong pre-modernist mindsets... Alcibiades and Achilles are the BAP ideal, not agrarian workers or meek christians

>>14303390
Wtf kind of verbal twisting is this. Those two aren’t even remotely close to being located in the Bronze Age historical period. Wow. Fucking Bravo. Is this the quality of followers BAP really has?

>>14303401
What do you even mean by pre-modernist, retard? Do you even know what Mycenae was? Homeric tales ARE mythology of bronze age

>>14303415
>heroic and embellished myths written in the hellenic period which pertained to the very end of the Bronze Age in only Greek societies are translatable to what Bronze Age life was like and what the average peasant experienced worldwide
Are you actually fucking serious?

This is the most pathetic thread i've seen in a long time. You should all kill yourselves

>>14303437
>thinking BAP is talking about the average "worldwide" peasant
Did you actually read the book or are you mentally impaired? Are you denying the historicity of Mycenaean Greek pirates and germanic mannerbund?
I think you are being autistically and falsely pedantic solely on the basis of the title

>>14303454
Oh, so BAP really is a giant LARP and not indicative to historically relevant scenarios. You’ve been brainwashed by (((hollywood))) that you actually idolize a false ideal of “pirates” and “ebic heroes”. You actually believe that up until the rise of the Hellenic era people went around just pillaging and raping all day, everyday. You believe that there was no stability, no peace, that simple farming communities were not an existing thing, and that one day everyone just decided to stop being le ebic hero’s and settle down to plant some grass. Maybe, just maybe, if you got your head out of your ass you would realize that for a VAST majority of human history, people have been simple hunter gatherers turned simple farmers. Grand battles and heroics are all embellishments meant to pass the time for the midwit peasants, like you :)

>>14303453
i still dont know WTF theyre going on about
its pure gibberish

>>14303479
Many "peasants" became raiders off season

>>14303479

>>14303526
They were still mainly peasants who farmed the land. There is nothing sustainable about constant nationwide war and there never has been. People have been bred to be farmers, not warriors.
>>14303544
You’re another uneducated idiot. You know why they went raiding and pillaging? In order to secure more land and women to grow their local populations. Do you know what happened when man became masters of farming? Populations exploded and huge wars began to finally emerge because you could actually sustain large populations without hunting your food to extinction. God you guys are so poorly educated it hurts.

>>14303561
Gonna Cry? Gonna Piss Your Pants Maybe? Hmm? Maybe shid and cum?
Agrarian virgins such as yourself have been enslaved and taxed by entire races warlike elites who did not raise a hand to the soil since the dawn of mankind, next you will deny the Doric invasion

>>14303544

>>14303597
>Similarly, Atilla (PBUH)
top kek

>>14303519
Read your Nietzsche and Herodotus

>>14303597
my fucking sides

BABYLON BAD
EGYPT BAD
GREECE EXCEPT FOR PLATO GOOD
CHRISTIANITY GOOD

>>14301683
>Also if you're ugly don't bother reading this book because nothing written in it describes or affects you
Why didn't you just start with that ;_;

>achktiually the bronze age had stable societies
>BAP is just a LARP, he's a conman

Imagine missing the point so much.
Just put the book down and give it a try in 10 years. Maybe you'll be mature enough to read it without sperging out over irrelevant details and free of bugman social conditioning.

>>14301683
>just when this book comes out people like Kanye West and Jay Z start promoting ideas for black emancipation in a similar vein
>"instead of buying a Lamborghini or a gold chain... buy some land"
>"invest in real estate"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivCY3Ec4iaU
Kanye recently bought 4000 acres of farmland in Wyoming. People in the "manosphere" have stopped preaching location-indendepent income as gospel and are focusing on generational wealth building now, similar to the old noble houses of Europe. Buy land, buy estates, Old Money Power.

>>14301899
Look how pic related took advantage of rapidly changing social conditions, a time when his country was finding its way still.

>>14301683
Sounds something a /pol/tard would write

>>14303943
>Imagine missing the point of buying land.

Buying real estate only makes sense if you are planning to rent it to people, but gold is still more valuable in the long term. Niggers just buy out property and turn it into airbnb. Shit like this increases rental prices in the big cities and is just another bubble.

>>14303995
It's about having ownership of something tangible. You could make the argument that land you buy isn't really "yours" in any meaningful sense but that's past the point. You can buy physical gold but it's NOT more valuable than land. It's only more valuable when expressed in dollars. It's you who misses the point by calculating worth/value by measuring the amount of dollars it costs.

>>14301683
>joining your country's military, intelligence community, civil service or financial institutions
I wonder who could be behind this message.

Many times I’m asked, why the Bronze Age? Because it’s the heroic age you see in Iliad and Odyssey, yes, but don’t forget what hero really means. Thucydides says the men of that time enjoyed piracy, and saw nothing wrong with it, and this is true. And what is the pirate but the original form of the free man and of all ascending life! How pathetic, when you are told now about “living life,” or “having a life”—these people know nothing about what true life means. Compare the intensity of Alcibiades, that super-pirate, or of what I am about to describe here, to the “life” you’re encouraged to “have” today. How worthless the vaunting of these anxious creatures who live on pharmaceuticals, cheap wine, the rancid fart-fumes of status and approval they beg from each other…

>>14301640
https://www.claremont.org/crb/article/are-the-kids-altright/

>>14303479
>Maybe, just maybe, if you got your head out of your ass you would realize that for a VAST majority of human history, people have been simple hunter gatherers turned simple farmers.
BAP acknowledges this, you prove every thread you've never read the book
>>14304075
Well, he's basically advocating for a Gramscian long March through the institutions but for right wingers instead of leftists. So you can attempt to change policy from the inside, assuredly against Israel if you're actually rightwing.

>>14301972
That looks like shit weed

>>14305285
>read a book meant for low-IQ teenage boys
No thanks.
>>14303779
>No you can’t criticize my favorite shekel sucking author! I need a my daddy to lead me and tell me how strong I am, stop inducing cognitive dissonance in my mind

>>14303544
This kills the bug

>>14305562
croinge

>>14302132
yike

>>14305807
>>14306009
shitposting is shit posting

>>14303978
sounds something an ugly motherfucker would say

>>14301809
Just get five friends and a lot of guns and you can own any space you like

>>14302132
Are you literally fucking retarded? The book talks about physical space not fucking outer space lmao

>>14303597
what a fucking ride that post was