/lit/ - Literature

>>14298850
Translation: OP got cucked by his gf who asked him to take her back

>>14298850
Chillax my guy. It's just a book

>>14298868
No, but this shit happens all the time in fiction and I'm sick to death of the circus every time.

It's very simple, if someone betrays you, you cut them out of your life forever. Second chances are like saying "here is the knife and here is my heart and I'll just let you hold that there from now until the end of time and whenever you feel like it just stab me".

>>14298877

name 5 examples

>>14298877
literally name 100 songs

>>14298897
Lolita (she was cheating on him all along)
Jesus&Judas (he fucking knew and still let it happen)
Socrates&himself (the athenians gave him like a thousand opportunities to survive)

>>14298850
But then we would never have redemption arcs.

>>14298922
>Jesus&Judas (he fucking knew and still let it happen)
That's different. Jesus was being obedient to the Father's will.

>>14298850
stfu desertpilled asshat

>>14298850
i liked Bojack's take on this:
>"You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about yourself, like that makes it okay. YOU NEED TO BE BETTER."

translation: even if you manage to drag out an apology from a hooer, that doesnt suddenly wipe the slate clean - she's still a hooer, and as we all know, once a hooer, always a hooer

>>14298932
>But then we would never have redemption arcs
Good.

Scum don't deserve and aren't capable of redemption.

>>14298939
Literally what are you defending?

Women can do no wrong? Cheaters should be forgiven? It's ok if she says sorry? You're pathetic.

>>14298991
>People realizing the faults in their past actions and actively seek redemption= shitty people saving their ass from punishment by feigning empathy
Holy shit neck yourself.

>>14298950
>I like Bojack’s take in this

>>14298950
what if the hooer stops being a hooer? That would fit Bojack's definition of redemption, yes?

>>14298987
If one can devolve from goodness into evil, than surely one can evolve from evil into goodness, eh?

>>14299008
>People realizing the faults in their past actions and actively seek redemption
Fuck off.

It doesn't take a genius to know when you're being a piece of shit, it's incredibly obvious and the only reason you're upset is BECAUSE YOU'RE A PIECE OF SHIT. You chose to be scum and now you have to live with it. There is no forgiveness or redemption, you're scum. That's who you are. Scum.

>>14299022
>If one can devolve from goodness into evil
You can't, good and evil are not real things they're arbitrary definitions that vary for every person you ask.
>than surely one can evolve from evil into goodness, eh?
Can you unrape someone? Can you unmurder someone?

>>14299018
Hooers are hooers, a leopard can't change its spots.

>>14299039
>Fuck off.
Excellent response. If a man were to be groomed from birth into believing stealing was morally okay, and than went out into the world and realized that it wasn't, would he still be scum? Some of the "scum" you detest did not attain those beliefs by themselves, but were rather taught and nurtured in those ways. Take prince zuko from the series Avatar: the last airbender. He was raised since childhood that honor was the only thing that mattered, and that he wouldn't be a "Proper Prince" otherwise. However, when his worldview was then challenged by Aang and the rest of the characters, he sees the faults in his past actions and goes to Aang to seek redemption. However, it isn't a one and done deal, sorry isn't enough, he has to actually PROVE that he regrets his past and wishes to actually change, which he does. This is a redemption arc done right, as Zuko no longer becomes the honor loving scum that you hate, but rather a sympathetic character that represents that there are some people in the world that can, in fact, change.

>>14298850
>"muh betrayal"
>not viewing it as a delayed change of mind
>giving a fuck

>>14299086
>a delayed change of mind
God you're pathetic. "S-She didn't cheat, s-she had a delayed change of mind!".

>>14299050
If a leapord can't change its spots, than we as humans can't evolve from our blubbering and childish tendencies that we had when we were babies. Personalities and mindsets change over time, and aren't strict things like concrete.
>>14299044
>can you unrape someone
Rape is a bad thing? I thought you said that good and evil aren't real things anon, and that it's all arbitrary. And yet, here you are giving a moral framework on various actions, which would conflict with the previous statement. I jest, obviously. To answer your question, no, you can not unrape someone. I do not wish to conflate forgiveness via active attainment of redemption with living a life without consequences. If you did something bad, than you have to suffer the consequences, but you can also realize that what you did was wrong and not try to do it again. The punishment must still be due, however.

>>14299108
The punishment of cheating on someone is an abolition of the relationship. I dont think >>14299086 is advocating for the total forgiveness of cheaters and not punishing them, which is someone that a retard would think.

>>14299067
>If a man were to be groomed from birth into believing stealing was morally okay, and than went out into the world and realized that it wasn't, would he still be scum?
That's a stupid fucking analogy because you're not that man and no one is, everyone knows what's scummy and what's not scummy.
>Zuko
Zuko never did anything scummy to begin with though, there was nothing to redeem. He was hunting a child to restore his fathers pride in his son. That's not scummy at all.

If you hated Zuko you're an idiot who didn't understand his tragic beginnings.

>>14299111
>than we as humans can't evolve from our blubbering and childish tendencies that we had when we were babies
Yes and? You clearly don't, the average person is a self centered, whiny, greedy little cunt.

>>14299111
>Rape is a bad thing?
Rape is probably the second most unpleasant thing anyone can experience, the first being torture/murder.

The beyblade you stood on is not inherently evil, but you don't like the stabbing pain in your foot, do you?

>>14299115
>everyone knows what's scummy and what's not scummy.
... Do they? Do you honestly believe that everyone in the entire world has the exact moral framework as you? A bit egotistical, but okay.
>Zuko never did anything scummy to begin with though
I suppose that risking the lives of hundreds of fire nation soldiers for "muh honor", imprisoning your based tea loving uncle at the slightest chance of love and affection, and trying to kill the avatar aren't scummy at all
>if you hated Zuko you're an idiot who didn't understand his tragic beginnings.
Ah, so you DO believe that people can have skewed moralities. Why do your statements constantly conflict with each other, anon?

>>14299118
>Yes and?
AND what I was trying to say is that if a whining blubbering baby can evolve into a mild self respected person, than a whore can evolve into a modest person as well. Granted, it will be much more difficult, but its still more than possible.
>the average person is a self centered, whiny, greedy little cunt.
I think the main problem with this is the generalization of peoples. Not everyone is the same, anon.
>>14299125
>Rape is probably the second most unpleasant thing anyone can experience
Once again, you're basing that on a subjective moral framework. What happened to "Good and evil aren't a thing".

>>14299134
>... Do they?
YES

>>14299167
No, they do not. People have different opinions on what is right, and what is wrong. Not everything has to be framed around your singular worldview, anon.

>>14299173
>No, they do not.
YES THEY DO

Everyone knows that cheating is scummy. Everyone.

>>14299182
Even in societies and cultures where cheating is tolerated or even encouraged? If cheating was scummy, than cuckoldry would not be a fetish.

>>14299208
Sorry, I meant to say that if EVERYONE KNEW that cheating was scummy, than cuckoldry would not be a fetish.

>>14299114
This nigga gets it.

>>14299219
HEY YOU CANT SAY THE N WORD ITS BAD, ALSO GOOD AND EVIL DONT EXIST ARENT I DEEP!!!!1!!11

Whom are you quoting? What books are you reading that this is such a common motif? I can’t think of one.

>>14299208
>Even in societies and cultures where cheating is tolerated or even encouraged?
Literally none exist.

Cuckoldry is not cheating, since the cuck consents moron.

>>14298922
You're a fucking idiot if that's what you got out of Lolita

>>14299362
the merriam definition of a cuckold is as follows:
a man whose wife is unfaithful
A bit short bet it gets the point across. It doesn't matter if the cuckold consents, it's still cheating.
>literally none exist
What about the swathes of women and men who think it's perfectly fine to cheat on someone? They don't think cheating is evil, but rather a perfectly normal thing to do. Like I said, not everyone has the same moral parameters, anon. Entire empires would literally not exist if that was the case.

>>14299368
got off*

>>14299384
>It doesn't matter if the cuckold consents, it's still cheating
No it's not moron. The cuckold gets off on it, it's not cheating. It's only cheating if you don't want it to happen. Stop being a pedantic bitch and admit defeat.

>>14299362

>He's never been to Brazil

>>14299384
>What about the swathes of women and men who think it's perfectly fine to cheat on someone?
SCUM

>>14299396
If a person gets off on pain, is it still pain?

>>14299403
To you, and your subjective moral framework, yes. But in their eyes, they're normal people. Why is your worldview superior to theirs?

>>14298987

>She's so emotionally crippled she doesn't like a certain kind of character development in fiction.

>>14298850
>Self inserting as the MC to the extent you take personally percieved slights against them

>>14299409

False equivalence. The word cheating implies dishonesty, what is dishonest about cuckoldry?

>>14299018
there is always room for redemption. i think thats one of the reasons Christianity has managed to spread its influence all over the globe.

but certain behaviors and knowledge open doors that can never be closed again.
>you, married, two beautiful little children, one boy and one girl. white picket fence. lovely little dog.
>"howdy neighbor! you just moved in i see?"
>"yes i have. im obligated though, to let you know that i was convicted of pedophilia 15 years ago. but i have changed. ive been to therapy, i take prescribed medications intended to aid me, and ive had a squeaky clean record ever since. i moved here to america because i believe in second chances."
>"y-yeah, me too. we all deserve another shot. thank you for informing me though."
most people will be more cautious with this neighbor henceforth. a more vigilant eye scans the backyard as your children play, because
>you never know.
you can never truly relax in what you thought was a safe community. anytime your children step outside, various horrible scenarios (bordering on fantasy) runs through your mind.

now compare that to a hooer with a lengthy history of hooering. its similar to taking addictive drugs on a regular basis. past a certain point, normalcy will never be normal again. you will always have the knowledge of what the super-normal feels like. and often times, you find a creeping feeling inch up on you, reminding you of how pale your normal indulgences feel in comparison to that hit of morphine.

we are, after all, only human - all too human. it will be difficult for a hooer to truly reform her ways. not after she's experienced the inexplicable joys of interacting and having sex with "Chad." she can clearly differentiate between "Chad" and you, but she cannot quite articulate the reasons why. the tingles of her vagina are charged from a complex moving amalgamation of reasons and subtleties that she simply cannot explain why the first time "Chad" made contact with her hand felt so different than when you held hers.
>"i dont know, when he grabbed my hand, i felt this, i dunno, chemistry"
her years of constant attention, personal favors, unmerited value in realms not relating to her looks, and the mystical feeling that the universe seemed to always bend to her favor is suddenly juxtaposed with a monotonous life centered around actual work, sacrifice, compromises, and a consideration extending past the self.
she longs for one last hoorah, one final ride into the romanticized sunset. but she knows she cant, because she has made promises - a lifelong covenant. but everywhere she turns, she unearths temptations. temptations linger around every corner. even the most celibate monk may find himself succumbing to his human desires when he is constantly approached by nude, hot females.
and we all know, it rarely is ever just "one last time."

>>14299527
That's... really depressing. I always believe that people, even the most deranged and hopeless, can change for the better. But, as you said, it's hard, and there will be temptations. The path to redemption is not an easy one to make. There is no pleasure without suffering, no wine without a bitter taste. But the road, however, is not wholly impossible, and that is what humans such wonderful creatures. We can change our ways, even from the darkest pits of depravity.

>>14299568
let the saints shoulder that heavy burden then. i am not delusional enough to think i am more than the average human.
would i be able to deal with the nagging thoughts of "what if" and "how can i really know"? and more importantly:
>would i want to?
would you be able to trust your ex-best friend who fucked your wife? would you be able to move past his mistakes and introduce him to your family and new wife? or would you rather forgive him, move on, and deal with it by severing ties.
there's no point in holding grudges, but that doesnt obligate you to repay them with charity.

nothing is ever black and white - everything is coated with varying shades of gray. and perhaps that is what makes this world so frustrating. no one has the time, energy, or motivation to understand the intricate nuances of the various topics, incidents, and behaviors that constantly shuffle through our lives. at one point we draw a general line and state: "in most cases, X will do, but with the context and understanding that different factors may necessitate a Y." and then we move on until we have to actually cross that bridge.

no one can truly say that they would rather choose an ex-hooer over a good female. if everything between them were equal, with the only difference being that one of them (in the past) chose to discard a long-term vision of happiness and well-being (couched in reality), and thus decided to hooer her life away, only a dishonest person would say:
>"ill choose the ex-hooer"
actions will always have consequences.

>>14299655
But surely the ex-hooer can abandon their old lifestyle, and choose one of happiness and long term stability? Can a person truly be 100% irredeemable?

>>14299690
they can, but like i said:
>"let the saints shoulder that heavy burden then. i am not delusional enough to think i am more than the average human."
the relevant question is: can i? and more importantly, would i want to?

no one is truly 100% irredeemable. just like no young child can ever be 100% disqualified for having unrealistic dreams like "one day ill be the president!"
but then tumbleweed of time rolls on by. the infinite but low-resolution potential of the child sharpens into a narrower, but more high-def image. as certain paths close, other paths begin to light up.

hooering will close doors, thereby obligating the hooer to another set of doors. the hooer shouldnt be surprised when she comes out the other side with a set of options far different than if she walked through another door.

every young and dumb female wishes for the perfect male:
>"well, i want him to make a ton of money, or at least enough to put us above the average. but i also want him to spend a ton of time with the family, ya know, help out with the chores, spend time with the children."
lady, making a lot of money is usually correlated with a lot of time. there are only 24 hours in a day.
>"oh and he should be funny, hehe, but not like, disgusting funny ya know? he cant be like politically incorrect funny. i also want him to be well-read and cultured. oh but he should also be fit, take care of his body and health."
where is this extra time allowing someone to dedicate their only-human attention and energy to the betterment of these areas coming from?
>"oh, but i dont want to marry some older guy. eww, no. i mean, its fine if hes older than me, but i dont want someone THAT much older than me."
how many 20/early 30s people are going around with the discipline of a shaolin monk, the efficiency of elon musk, and the raw talent necessary to become proficient in these myriad of values?
>"oh, what do i bring to the table? ya know, awesomeness, duh. why else are there always a constant stream of guys trying to slide into my DMs? why else would i have 100 tinder right-swipes a day? why else do all the little minute interactions and behaviors ive encountered all my life swing in my favor? gynocentrisim centered around the inherent value of a vagina, placing it (by default) above that of the penis? eww, what are you, a sexist? women and children first, duh."
the problem is that these expectations are never couched in reality. and if there really was this perfect male (e.g. Leonardo DiCaprio), why would he settle for you? or why would he settle for the monogamous and monotonous lifestyle?
people rarely hold the mirror up to the female gender, because the female gender has a long history of hypoagency. this is further exacerbated by the current political climate seeping every facet of our lives where any discussion that upsets third-wave feminism is responded with unfortunate backlash.
>"the dialogue aint worth the squeeze."

>>14299690
>But surely the ex-hooer can abandon their old lifestyle, and choose one of happiness and long term stability?
Are you 5 years old?

How are you breathing when you're this fucking naive.