/lit/ - Literature

Works better than all the alternatives. It's either Black Friday stampedes, or starvation and labour camps. You choose. *chooses communism while posting from his iPhone*

>>14252612

>>14252573
>waaaah I'm a loser, let's change the rules of the game so I can't lose anymore

>>14252633
yes because the current system where you work 40+ hours a week and can finally retire when you are already half dead is so good

>>14252642
Yeah, let's go back to the old ways where you worked even longer and were fully dead by the age of 40.

>>14252623
first day on the internet? Reddit is a liberal site you mong.

>>14252654
People worked less hours back then actually

>>14252676
No?

>>14252659
What you said was liberal propaganda lol.

>>14252689
They did. Before the industrial evolution people worked less hours and they weren't atomized.

>>14252573
>caring about society
Never gonna make it

>>14252696
Manual laborers worked for 12-16 hours lol, fucking retard.

>>14252689
Yes. People had far more free time and worked at a much more natural pace throughout most of history.

>>14252696
Got a source?

>>14252715
>>14252696
>t. lazy college punks who are so afraid of work they make up fairy tales about things that never happened

>>14252573
Ok you are a fucking retarded.
The capitalism is the best economic system creared by mankind.

>>14252735
>>14252709
This is already well known just search it up
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html
>>14252736
Why do you like wagecucking and licking boots so badly?

>2020
>Not being a Marxist

>>14252759
>Why do you like wagecucking and licking boots so badly?
Because it's making me money and money is good because money is making stuff easier and more enjoyable. You just want to drag everyone else down to your level of poorfaggotry so you don't have to feel inferior.

>>14252756
>creared
capitalism is a descriptive term for various complex economical processes, it wasn't "creared" you tool. the term wasn't first used by Marx, but Marx is why you use it to describe what you describe, because he popularised the term. Marxism is an analysis of capitalism.
>>14252775
this
>>14252659
>liberal
I'm European, I understand more options that fascist and less fascist.

>>14252792
No, I want the workers to have more power over their lives. You fight against your own interests.

>>14252573
Capitalism in and of itself I can take or leave, but the market deeply bothers me. It's a method for stripping accountability from individuals and human processes and abstracting it away into something we can't control. If you're hungry under communism, you can kick the door of the central planner's office in and ask him what the fuck he's playing at not shipping you any food - but under capitalism? Well, there's no food in your house because of the complex interactions of the global economy with your shithole country that only exports shoes, only the shoes are only exported from the coastal regions and you live in the inland mountains where nothing grows. it did used to grow, but then the land was sold to mining companies, but now the mining companies are gone because they've mined up everything and you can't grow anything there because there's a bunch of abandoned mines that nobody's going to pay to get rid of, so while you work making posters of hills or whatever hill-people do the exchange rate has moved because of something that happened in London and now food imports are too expensive and you can't afford it and appointing responsibility for this complete and utter clusterfuck is impossible, let alone actually resolving it so you get food.

>>14252810
>If you're hungry under communism, you can kick the door of the central planner's office in and ask him what the fuck he's playing at not shipping you any food
You actually can't, I mean you can, but you'll get disappeared quickly.
t. former eastern block

>>14252818
I mean if you do it yourself, sure. 1989 is a testament to the fact that eventually people will band together and kick in that door, though. There's no door that our hypothetical mountain people can kick in.

>>14252792
the amount of money a person in c level management makes versus what a basic worker earns is absolutely out of proportion

even top tier senior engineer who are the backbone of the company dont earn as much as those so important managers

capitalism 1945-1973: good. a nice managed compromise between everyone's interests without overthrowing the system.
capitalism post 1980: literally anything would be preferable to this inhuman disaster zone

>>14252573
Capitalism strayed us away from God, it corrupted our morals and has made us slaves to our vices

>>14252759
>8.6-9 hours a day of backbreaking physical work with lots of holidays and the constant fear of drought and disease are better than 8 hours of a deskjob in a near post scarcity society with guaranteed access to all neccesities
Consider that a medieval peasant was essentially a self employed landowner or working for one. Life on a farm was a constant struggle to produce enough grain and animal produce to last through winter and trade for burgher specialist products like clothes and tools. The impermancy of grain and the fact that the local feudal lord would constantly steal half of your quarterly production with no benefits in return meant that accumulating value to the next year was almost impossible for the majority of all people. Leisuretime was spent sewing, crafting and repairing items on the farm, and while winter was generally a time of rest and familiar interaction the peasant was still restricted to a cold, cramped house isolated from the outside world in northern europe. Serfs had no such luxuries, and generally lived a miserable life as slaves to the landowner, forced from birth to work his fields in exchange for a wooden hovel and just enough food to survive long enough to reproduce and thus create replacements for themselves. The amount of hours worked a day hadvery little to do with the economic philosophy of the medieval period, and more with the technological limitations that wouldn’t allow more effective labour per day than what was performed. Crops took time to grow, animals required relatively little work to keep alive and healthy, and most extra holidays were a direct result of peasants not having anything to do certain periods of the year. Additionally, the population was much lower back then, with much more relative area to sustain an individual. Our current insane production speed is required to feed the grossly overpopulated world of today. A more apt comparison would be the USSR, which disallowed a free market in favour of central planning. Interestingly, the Soviets worked around 40 hours a week, the same as most concurrent capitalist nations, which seems to defeat the point you are making, unless you are an unironic anarcho-primitivist wanting to go back to the middle ages. Your false dichotomy falls apart with mere cursory analysis.

>>>/pol/
>>>/his/

>>14252810
see, the problem with communism is the idea of a revolution followed by the ”proletariat dictatorship”, which is a transistory central organisation in charge of making sure the conversion to a communist society happens. What happened in the USSR, Cuba and other communist states was that the temporary government decided that it didnt want to lose power, and used its absolute power over the entire nation to stay on top. The syndicalists atleast recognise that expecting an all powerful elite to willingly give up all its power is fucking retarded, and go directly for the classless utopia. Even then, the heirarchical nature of humanity will soon topple whatever artificial equality was imposed when some dude gets enough comrades to listen to him to effectively become a leader, but atleast their version of socialism hasn’t had the opportunity to fail catastrophically yet..

Once you all get jobs that are worth a shit, you'll forget all about this juvenile "capitalism bad" bullshit almost overnight.

>>14252573
>a system that enslaves peopl
Listen cunt. You can buy shares in whatever shit corporation you work for. And you can give your money to chinks and nigger, to your hearts desire
But no, it's just gimme gimme gimme

>>14252855
You know the pope and the Vatican owns their fair share of the means of production, right?
Their Italian after all. They invented banking
How else would they keep track of your sins?

>>14252995
t. 17 year old Crowderian

>>14252659
>liberalism
>actually being opposed to capitalism in any way despite the intrinsic link between the 2 since the onset of the industrial revolution
You don’t understand what liberalism is and how pervasive an ideology it has become, almost every single country on earth and every major political party in the west are liberal and capitalistic in nature (at least outwardly).
The only people who think that liberalism is just the retarded core of the modern left then you must be either a teenager or worse still, an American who likes to use buzzwords with no regard for their actual meaning.

>>14252573
So how do we fix it without imposing a tyrannical goverment and severely restricting individual rights?

>>14253040
mate i'm speaking your language. people use liberal to mean a specific type of person or set of ideas. i'm not even american, just using the language that others understand.

>>14253045
>without imposing a tyrannical goverment and severely restricting individual rights?
>implying those things aren’t necessary to fix society

>>14253050
>other people being wrong means that I can be wrong too with no consequence

>>14253053
The fact that you can use a shotgun to get rid of headache doesn't mean that you should.

Capitalism isn’t a concise problem concerning violence and disease it’s like the effects of crack rock on America in 1985 to 1991 and the rise of murder, deformed and mutated populations who took the lesser evil saying to themselves it’s not the drugs or drink and to much tv and not a easier route to resources that keep society afloat and not just a belief of good and evil but a ethical mindset

>>14252847
>when the entire world gets gipped by the gipper

>>14252995
That’s not the main problem people here have with capitalism, it is capitalism that has allowed degeneracy to increase in society, capitalism that encouraged immigration and loss of tradition because these things boost productivity

>>14253069
This modern system isn’t a headache, it’s gangrene spreading up a leg which must be cut off before it gets too far

>>14252985
China is doing fine with it aka Socialism by 2050 goal

>>14252985
>the hierarchical nature of humanity
all ideology

>>14253059
language is defined by usage you autistic retard. yes, if everyone uses "liberal" to mean that particular kind of person, then the definition changes as it has for hundreds of years. fucking jesus i can't believe i have to explain this shit to you pricks.

>>14252573
>implying muh tradition and culture means anything in the end
It always degenerates in the end no matter the measures taken to conserve it. Whenever there is an authoritarian regime to conserve “conservative values” (which is a massive meme in itself) there is always an eventual rise in liberal values to take it down. History is cyclical and nothing has truly changed for most of human history. Your disgust of the newest liberal system called capitalism is largely pointless.

>>14253209
>History is cyclical
It isn't. And this is really stupid to say. Don't say it again.
>Nothing has truly changed
A lot has changed.

>>14252573
>it's bad because
>its bad.
>and that's because
>it's just bad, okay?
Shut the fuck up

>>14253263
Rustled jimmies

>>14253120
Are you implying that socialist economy is the answer? I'm Russian, and you can't even start to imagine how much socialism wrecked the soul of my people. It created alientation and oppression and misery that are many times stronger than anything possible under capitalism. And it's not due to some random fluke, but because this alienation and oppression are necessary to maintain the socialist system.

>>14253873
The answer is the destruction of economies wholesale.

>>14253873
And yet when polled, Russians actually look fondly back on that period.

>>14253910
These people miss their youth, not the social system.
And it's not like late Soviet socialism was nightmarish in the sense that you Westerners usually imagine - people were not sent to death camps for talking crap about the authorities, and they were not starving. But the system was intentionally destroying all and every capacity for independent social organization. And this is precisely why post-1991 Russia is dominated by mafia, ex-KGB, and ethnic nepotism - because these three groups, criminal underworld, former secret service people, and pseudo-tribal communities of ethnic minorities suddently turned out to be the biggest fishes in the lake.

>>14252573
Capitalism is only a problem for the weak and stupid that would have been culled in any other type of society.

>>14253977
What's that Mister Goldberg? Sorry I couldn't hear you. I was gargling on your big corporate cock haha.

>>14252573
Read marx

>>14253999
checked

>>14253873
Alienation and oppression are integral to capitalism as well.

>>14253873
grow up already. this is such a fucking trite point

>>14254031
bakunin was a fat bastard who couldn't read

>>14253172
This just reveals that you're an American and your opinion can be discarded.

>>14253873
>It created alientation and oppression and misery that are many times stronger than anything possible under capitalism
Misery, perhaps. I'm not sure it's possible to central plan something as alienating as Brand Twitter, or Furry Twitter, or actually anything involving Twitter come to think of it.

>>14252573
It's funny how the contradiction between the will to power and the message of the bible still continues to this day. Capitalism is the will to power, socialists are Christian last men.

>>14252612
>It's either Black Friday stampedes, or starvation and labour camps.
Lol.

>>14254064
>ugh mr russiaman, just stfu and let me wallow in my communist fantasy land that never actually existed

>>14253953
>the soviet union sucked because of communism
>the capitalist russian federation also sucks because of communism

hopefully you guys try real capitalism one day and you'll all be living in mansions and owning private jets and shit just like the americans and their infinite luxury

>>14253873
I was not implying socialism is the answer, socialism is also a bad. some oligarchic monarchist blend with a clear class system might best suite humanity

>>14252659
>redditor/poltard thinks liberalism and capitalism are opposites
Just go back to your fucking safe space

>>14252612
>chooses communism
>implying that this is the primary alternative to capitalism
I hope you enjoy your 16th birthday, I had a blast on mine
The biological determinists here will argue for ethnonationalism, others will argue for theocracy, most will argue for monarchy and some for fascism; almost none will genuinely consider communism, this is something the capitalist liberal pretends to make himself feel secure that it is only communists who oppose him

>>14255220
So what we have now? Thanks for pointing out your retarded.

>>14253231
Zero arguments to be seen here. “Change” isn’t technological or subcultural advancement. Everything in human history has revolved around this: “Who does what to get and keep what”

>>14253172
Liberal is only used this way by autistic Americans who can’t into etymological origins. In every other country, even bongland, liberals are what you would call libertarians, ie the exact same as it was 200 years ago as liberalism and capitalism are entirely interconnected

>>14252995
>t. wannabe boomer
No, I actually have a very well paying job, but guess what: I still hate the fucking system that erodes everything in its way. Capitalism is a plight on humanity.

>>14253231
dummy dum dum post

>>14252573
Capitalism has proven itself to be the best system for wealth generation. This is beyond dispute, and was the main lesson from the 20th century competition between the capitalist and communist worlds. Capitalism decisively won the battle between these materialist political philosophies.

Our times are clearly plagued by unregulated capitalism, and corporations/governments/empires that are politically resistant to governing for their people. There needs to be some sort of rebalancing, some sort of reset, to eliminate the enormous quantity of debt and the extreme asset price bubbles that are making life grim and growing up impossible for younger generations.

The return of Marxist agitators is concerning for several reasons. One reason is that it shows we are in a time in which functional, sensible, boring, centrist political solutions to the problems of the world are too difficult, and are being deferred or postponed because they are too painful to contemplate. This creates opportunities for extreme and revolutionary politics of all colours and stripes.

The other concern is this... if economic growth is sputtering or failing under capitalism, then we can be sure that if there is a Marxist, communist, or other form of revolution- it will not be able to restore economic growth. It will be out for blood, looking for its first victims, then its next victims, then its next... Hmm, whose wealth do we loot now? Whose heads do we cut off now? Who is less pure than me, and deserves to go to the gulags? You hate capitalism, but you don't understand that the alternative is actually far worse. While economic growth reigns, the world is not a zero sum game. As soon as economic growth is no longer possible, the world becomes a much fiercer battleground of classes and tribes than you were ever prepared for- dumb fucks.

>>14253873
You fucking russian scum just traded in your tsar for another "socialist" tsarist regime. You dumb fucking peasants didnt deserve anything better.
The answer would be "no more wage work, no more paper/coin/virtual money, and decentralisation and reintroduction of close knit communities where interdependence shapes natural supply and demand without some middleman merchant class that grows their billions of dollars on the shoulders of mother nature.

>>14255261
Pussy mentality. I would welcome the day where I could live off of my own work, without countless rules and boundaries over what I can or cant do. I could build myself a fucking shed and literally start farming tomorrow.

>>14255261
>muh wealth
>muh economic growth

why the fuck should i care about either of these things

>>14255275
Did you respond to the wrong post or is there just a problem with your brain?
>>14255276
>why the fuck should i care about either of these things
Because as soon as they stop being possible, the only way people can get more resources is to come for what you have.

>>14255241
reductionism and a weak reading of history
>>14255258
"cyclical history" is a joke and not taken seriously other than by incels on an anime site who read spengler.

>>14255289
lmao, the "growth" is already being stolen from the people that it "belongs" to(in the sense of it being their land) so whats your point? Our slave system wont work if the slave masters dont tell us to work harder, so that we can enslave even more people to make more slaves for the masters? Fuck off with your "centrist" boomer mindset. Capitalism is fucking horrible, it created our fucking apocalypse in just 300 years

>>14255261
>t. max weber
The time of revolutions is over, all the thinking and theorizing and writing over the last 200 years has gotten nobody anywhere. Only reason we are seeing the resurgence of Marxism is because Marxism is a religious cult that is here to stay, it doesn't matter what Marx said or intended, what matters is he is the great prophet of an immanentized Christian eschaton. Even these retarded Marxists are finally realizing capitalism can't be stopped, see Capitalism Realism and Accelerationism. Capitalism is reality, Marxism is literature and religious prophecy. The only way capitalism can be "stopped" is if/when it destroys itself.

>>14255261
>wealth growth consumption wealth growth consumption

can't wait 'til your type is dead in the fucking ground

>>14255306
Capitalism is a parasitic system, the parasite feeds on the host until both die, great way to prove your system though mate.
Marxism is flawed, and Marx propagated Communism by the way. Workers being in charger of the economy that eventually destroys the host is not neccessarily better in any sense.

>>14255261
The wealth is not in the hands of the workers.

It has been collapsing and the shadow of Marx has been reappearing beneath our feet for good reason. Sure it has led to some good things like technological innovations, but it has shown its limitations and it won't be here to stay forever. Your scope is simply small. Economic frameworks have changed all through out history, why not expect the same for the future?

You are putting many moral interpretations on Marxism which shows you are under read. Marx did not write about morality. In fact he wrote about the benefits of capitalism in his rigid critique and what would lead to systematic change. This is about systematic change and the workers taking up what comes from their work once the current system has fallen off due to its limitations.

>>14252855
He's right you know. OP should read Pieper.

>>14252573
https://youtu.be/ilA-uusMHis

Come to Vienna.

>>14255289
i dont actually "have" anything. i rent.

>>14255291
ok whig

>>14255237
>Monday society
>monarchist
>possessing a clear class system that actually irrevocably define the roles people play in society long term

>>14255493
we live in an oligarchy
>class roles
wagecuck/not a wagecuck

Sorry that your fantasy isnt what it was made out to be. Stop indulging in ideology. I am literally trying to imagine the type of morons that fantasize about monarchy in this day and age and the image of limp wristed incel basement dwellers comes to my mind.

monarchy is an contrarian phase, people normally grow out of it after a while. at least i did.

Honestly, if you aren't anti-capitalist nowadays—regardless of whether you're a commie or not—then you're behind the curve.

>>14255235
not him, but how would production occure under these systems? Would it be comodities being produced by wagelaborers? Will the market decide what is being produced, or will it be decided by some other institution?
If the answer is yes, then how is it anything other than capitalism with a fancy costume?

>>14255235
>The biological determinists here will argue for racist capitalism, others will argue for religious capitalism, most will argue for royal capitalism and some for totalitarian capitalism

>>14255583
anti-capitalism is just a phase, too. once you start making money, you don't wanna share any of it with anyone else anymore.

>>14255623
>hey that's funny, once i started wageslaving i became even more anti-capitalist

>>14255633
without the greentext*

>>14255276
the majority of people cares more about getting a new iphone than all the philosophy in the world
since we live in a society that values the majorities' opinion, we are forced to play within their desires

>>14255656
most people just want to eat and live a somewhat decent life, the fact that you equate people's desire for that with the worn out muh iphone trope just goes to show that you're a sheltered faggot that doesn't know anything about life beyond his filter bubble.

>>14253873
Do you genuinely imagine the average Russian in 1916 was better off or had a richer internal life than the average Russian in 1975.

It seems like the things about the soviet system that really caused alienation were the parts that were most similar to capitalism-alienation from the product of your labour and the social atomisation created by spending the entire workday not interacting with the people you actually live around.

Not only that, but the existence of the "pseudo tribal communities" you reference implies that the union wasn't actually so suppressive that independent social relations were impossible.

>>14255253
retard

>>14255591
They wouldn't. They are just petty idealism and flimsy ideology taken up by underage edgy incels.

>>14255235
Please stop browsing /pol/ and read books written by people with talent or at the very least kill yourseif.

>>14252995
>direct beneficiaries of the system are more willing to excuse its faults

So this is

the power

of economic growth

>>14255330
>The wealth is not in the hands of the workers.
Everyone has some amount of wealth. It's very easy to observe that over the past two or three decades, the situation has changed dramatically for ordinary people. Garnishing someone's salary for the rest of their life for various debts is taking wealth away. Inflating currencies and asset prices is diminishing the wealth of some people and increasing that of others. You don't need to physically take property in order to shift wealth around.

>It has been collapsing and the shadow of Marx has been reappearing beneath our feet for good reason.
It hasn't been collapsing, it has been unleashed. The rise of information technology has created new types of capital and has turned humanity into unwitting producers of it by pairing them with devices and turning their needs, desires, actions, etc. into data. Capitalism is becoming more and more complex and efficient and aware of the world.

>Sure it has led to some good things like technological innovations, but it has shown its limitations and it won't be here to stay forever. Your scope is simply small. Economic frameworks have changed all through out history, why not expect the same for the future?
I don't dispute this, except that there is no reason to expect that such a future economic framework will be what you imagine. It seems far more likely that it will be an even worse situation than the current one. Workers do not have power anymore. No one cares if Uber drivers and personal trainers go on strike.
>You are putting many moral interpretations on Marxism which shows you are under read.
You are projecting a lack of knowledge about Marxism as a substitute for an argument. Very typical move but adds nothing to the conversation, just attempts to frame the discussion to delegitimize me. Try something else faggot.
>Marx did not write about morality. In fact he wrote about the benefits of capitalism in his rigid critique and what would lead to systematic change. This is about systematic change and the workers taking up what comes from their work once the current system has fallen off due to its limitations.
Yes, and Marx's work has inspired multiple real world political attempts to implement it. Many of these attempts subsequently failed to realise it and turned into centrally planned economies ruled by authoritarian regimes, rather than a classless society or one in which workers own the means of production and/or reclaim the economic value they produce. Is there some reason to expect this will turn out different next time? Is our technology sufficiently advanced now that we're prepared to try this transformation again, now with invasive digital technology at the service of your failed communist authoritarian regime? Don't try that in my country please.

>>14255304
>Capitalism is fucking horrible, it created our fucking apocalypse in just 300 years
No, you are using capitalism as an externalization of what you dislike about humanity. Industrial society created global warming, and there is no reason to expect that communism (also thoroughly materialist and industrial) would have done differently. Stop blaming capitalism for everything bad and do something with your life.

>>14255317
>>wealth growth consumption wealth growth consumption
>can't wait 'til your type is dead in the fucking ground
Someday you'll grow up too.

Capitalism is nature. You're a fucking moron.

>>14255623
The only reason I am not giving away large chunks of my money is that I am saving it up because I will study for 4 years and would not want to work for shit wages the entire time. I do not care much about the money I make, its more than enough for two or even 10 people, I just have to be smart about it right now.

>>14256265
>Capitalism is nature.

lol

>>14252573
>destroys families,
"Abolition of the family!"
“The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.”

-Marx

>>14253141
>Hierarchy is found in all other social mammalians
>humans have created heirarchies since they evolved
>your friends group (if you have one) has a subtle hierarchy
>your family naturally develops a heirarchy
>this has been the case in all cultures
i’m convinced that the only reason communists deny the existance of something so obvious is because they were born with severe autism and literally cannot comprehend or percieve group dynamics.

>>14252612
>communism while posting from his iPhone*
Based anon paying tribute to pathbreaking Soviet technology
https://psmag.com/magazine/cellphone-revolutionary-objects

>>14257117
Looking at nature through your ideologicall tinted retard glasses will lead you to the assumption that everything in nature is neatly organized and structured, but its not at all, no lifeform has a rigid system of social hierarchy in place, where the son inherits the riches of the father and the women dont get shit.
Hierarchies in the animal world are usually seof balancing, they dont rely on manufactured consent and "democratic" decisions to decide which herd of buffalo to attack next.
The family (especially the modern family, that is highly detached from most of natural history) is a social construct that served a certain kind of ruling elite well. Humans for most of history did not spend most of their family time with a very small blood relates circle of pseudo friends, but in big communities of multiple families, essentially the tribes. Of course this didnt sit too well with people in power later on, because these tightly knit communities of interdependant human beings was way harder to rule than a fragmentated group that had to fight for its own survival and do so mainly through the wage labour of the father and the unpaid slave labour of the mother.
Modern families are a capitalist friendly social system.

>>14252612
Literally every technology that is part of the internet, was funded with public money in universities. Capitalism exploiting these technologies and inventions and making them "marketable" doesnt change that fact

>>14256983
Marx also said how the bourgeouis dont value marriage or love, because they pretty much trade their women and men around like goods, which is honestly absurdly true. Most people in rich socieities fuck at least half a dozen of people, and everyone of these people will also fuck another half a dozen, a lot of them even many many more.
I'm not against trying things out, Im not some incel poltard but its disgusting how our society pretty much treats sex and love as just another commodity, not even in the grand scheme but on the macro level, where everyone just gladly accepts that nobody will really appreciate you for what you are

>>14252573
>Waah, I'm poor and it's the fault of "capitalism"

No. It's the fault of your parents who made you without having the means to feed you for life.

>>14257210
your america reeks anon, please get rid off that stench, we can already tell youre a disgusting person, no need to hammer it in

>>14257204
It's amazing you idiots blame capitalism for this, when as far I can see, it's the left wing that not only pushes this, but also cracks down hard on people who try to step out of line from leftist pushed sexual norms.

The amount of "you're a 16 year old if you disagree with commies" in this thread while acting like oblivious retards to their own foibles is amazing. No wonder 20th century philosophers, historians, and others found communists maddening to discuss things with. It's like talking to a rock.

>>14257237
>pol friends told me that degeneracy is leftist and this means I believe it :))
Get your head out of your ass you fucking cancerous retard. You dont even know what liberalism, leftism and marxism means, how would you ever be able to argue against either? Youre a constant embarassment to everyone on this board with half a brain

>>14252573
I don't know what people mean when they make posts like this.

What do you propose as an alternative to capitalism?
How will food get made?
How will you motivate people to create food factories (if they can't own them privately)?
How will you motivate people to work?

>>14257204
Did you reply to the wrong person?
OP said: "destroys families"
It is the leftist view that families as they are and have been are capitalist.
"On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. "
>which is honestly absurdly true.
I don't see how that is true at all.
What is wrong with having half a dozen sexual partners? People like sex. How does that make it a commodity?

>>14257244
>how will you get people to actually do what neede to be done, if you dont offer them tourism, iPhones and new cars every year
Gee whiz man, I dont know, maybe they'll do it because they have to? I mean thats not the perfect solution but you were simply asking what would "motivate" people, and I can tell you this much: even in the west, nobody likes their fucking job, so the only motivation is systemic force, that pushes you into the street and destroys you and your family if you dont abide to its laws

>>14252573
>There is one major problem that plagues our society,


stopped reading right there. honestly. One problem? there's only one problem with society? I can't even fucking name something about society that ISN'T a problem. That should be thread. Can anyone think of one fucking thing society doesn't fuck up?

>>14257249
>poltard hates degeneracy but also loves it when its a side effect of Capitalism™
now this is rich

>>14257258
>poltard
What have I said that is even remotely pol? I've literally just been quoting marx.

>>14252573
>Capitalism
>Bad
T.Jelous failures. I fuck your wives after collecting the your rent payment nigger.

>>14252810
>If you're hungry under communism, you can kick the door of the central planner's office in and ask him what the fuck he's playing at not shipping you any food
Oh you naive sweet boi, do I have a Novocherkass Massacre for you. Starving people literally gunned down by the dozens. In the most fertile place in Europe. In 1962.
In 1961, the Soviets launched Gagarin into space. In 1962 they used machine guns against unarmed starving workers demanding fucking bread, while living on the most fertile soil in the Eastern Hemisphere. Communism ho!

>>14257271
As I said before: Russia never had actual communism, they violently removed the heritable tsarist regime and then replaced it with the inheritable Stalinist dicatorship. The workers never owned shit in the soviet union, they were exploited just as they were before, the initial honeymoon phase of the 20s quickly died, especially with Lenin.

>>14252810
>you can kick the door of the central planner's office in
Naturally the central planner has no centrally planned security forces nor centrally planned gulags to torture and enslave centrally planned dissidents like you over there by centrally planned KGB thugs.

The most wretched and broken people in the gulags were communists enslaved there for all the same made-up bullshit millions of other people got there. They would mindlessly repeat something like "what a terrible mistake please tell comrade Stalin I was wrongly accussed but a mistake they will soon release me soon". Might as well stay a slave for 15 years until Khrushchev released the gulag inmates, and even then serial murderers, rapists and other class conscious gentlemen were first to go while the political prisoners were literally the last people released from genocidal enslavement.

>>14257242
>well UH AH EXCUSE ME, YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIBERALISM, LEFTISM, AND MARXISM. CAN YOU PROVIDE AN OPERATIONAL DEFINITION FOR THIS. DO YOU HAVE A SOURCE? I SAY, DO YOU HAVE A SOURCE? I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I MODERATE A DOZEN SUB-REDDITS AND I WILL TELL THE MODS AND HAVE YOUR COMMENTS CANCELLED. I WILL SHUT DOWN THIS THREAD IF YOU CANNOT PROVIDE A SOURCE

>>14257278
>As I said before: Russia never had actual communism
BUT A MISTAKE@TELL COMRADE STALIN I KNOW BETTER WHAT COMMUNISM IS
Your ilk were murdered by the not-true-communists by hundreds of thousands, and your ilk had no trouble with not-true-communism whatsoever before it bit them the same way it bit the common people.

>>14257278
>The workers never owned shit in the soviet union
How do leftists actually think worker owned property would work?

>>14257256
You didn't really answer my questions.
>because they have to?
What do you mean? Explain like I'm retarded.
Someone (a central committee?) will force you to build a factory? And this is better than building a factory out of capitalistic greed?

>>14257283
>>14257284
seething trump supporter

>>14257280
Best thing about posts like these, which are true, is that you go over to socialist twitter for a few months and just watch the normal behavior of socialists, communists, anarcho-commies, and others and then ask yourself, "what would these people be like in charge? would we end up with the same mass slaughter?" From my own observations, 100% these people would openly slaughter everyone who spoke out against them.

>>14257289
Read the Communist Manifesto, I mean, read anything in general please, aside from the /pol/ catalog

>>14257289
>Leftist
>Think
Pick one.

>>14257295
You can't just answer the question?

>>14257290
Factories are the original seed of the capitalist way of exploitation, they never served the workers or the societies they were built in. So no, I dont think they'd build factories, I assume life would return to a sort of medieval lifestyle, with communally used land, land that the people own that live on it. Seperation of work will naturally occur, once you free people up to do what they do best, instead of doing what serves some capitalist owner best

>>14257299
Well its a long answer and its not as easy as you'd probably like to hear, but real life is hardly easy, its just ideologies that offer simple solutions.

>>14257278
>he initial honeymoon phase of the 20s quickly died
The phase that had 10 million 500 thousand people dead from terror, warfare and famine and 2 million refugees? The same that had the Volga Famine with cannibal gangs eating each other? Communists in Russia killed more people than soldiers died in WW1. On all sides. Combined.
Look these people in the eyes and say they are having a honeymoon.

Total absolute collapse of anything reminding a civilization. For example, in 1917 St. Petersburg alone had over 20 thousand telephones. In 1927, the entirety of the USSR had barely over 20 thousand telephones. For those of you tired of all the millions dead from famine and such.

>>14257305
>t. someone who can't answer a question and defend their points

>>14257305
>its not as easy as you'd probably like to hear
I'd like to head any answer regardless of how hard it is.

>>14257291
I'm a Russian. I heartily wish you the total civilization collapse, mass famine and mass enslavement you so crave to receive. May you end up with the HORRIBLE MISTAKE PLEASE TELL COMRADE BIXNOOD dying from starvation and overwork in some Nevada deserts slave camp number 1488.

>>14257306
The war and the post war period was the thing that actually enabled the russian revolution in the first place, and there were more reasons for the famine than "commies fucked up".
Just for example:
>"Historian Mark B. Tauger of West Virginia University suggests that the famine was caused by a combination of factors, specifically low harvest due to natural disasters combined with increased demand for food caused by the industrialization and urbanization, and grain exports by the Soviet Union at the same time."

>>14257303
>Factories are the original seed of the capitalist way of exploitation
>I dont think they'd build factories
So how will food (or anything else) get made? Everyone will only be allowed to make his own stuff?

>Seperation of work will naturally occur, once you free people up to do what they do best
But they can't make factories, mass produce stuff, employ people..?

>>14257303
>Factories are the original seed of the capitalist way of exploitation
Farms were first.

>>14257314
> and there were more reasons for the famine than "commies fucked up
>, and grain exports by the Soviet Union at the same time.
I like how this academia cocksucker frames "indiscriminate robbing of peasant of their food" as "grain exports".
>increased demand for food caused by the industrialization and urbanization
What urbanization? 70% of St. Petersburg died or ran way in 2 years. 50% of Moscow died or ran away in 2 years. Both were larger than Chicago same time, St. Pete had Manhattan size and population. Total urban collapse and decay in barely over a year. WHAT URBANIZATION?! Fucking idiot.

Like I said, may you have the slavery and genocide you crave. Nobody can have debates with people who openly state they want to enslave and genocide you. Communists are the enemy of mankind no better than National-SOCIALISTS were.

>>14257315
You dont need to "mass produce stuff" its an unsustainable way of production that relies on constant supply and demand.
A blacksmith for example wouldnt naturally only be a professional in making one kind of tool, but he'd be able to make many tools for different purposes, making him a valuable member of a community. Under the capitalist mode of production, these people were systemically killed off, in fact they were not even allowed to learn more than what was exclusively necessary for them to know. Fabric owners and politicians argued that a proletarian should not have a field, because it would mean top much freedom for him (potentially allowing him to choose his wage, or strike for a long amount of time) so that wasnt happening.
Everything a community of people needs is directly produced by that community, ideally you split the workload and the resources, funnily enough the world doesnt really have enough resources anymore to sustain this kind of life, because capitalist modes of exploitation have literally fished the rivers dry. So a post capitalist world would rely on scraps and agriculture.

be rich

>>14257330
The peasants were born in a time of surplus production and died when the surplus went away, a natural state of affairs really. And stop lumping in your fucked up history with communist theory, Russia, again, never had actual communism, it was doomed to fail from the get go, because it was born from a violent revolution and a powershift from one elite to the next. In Communism there are no elites. But of course, Russians could have hardly changed, they were used to being literal slaves to the tsar so they accepted the serfdom of the new leaders

>>14257330
>What urbanization? 70% of St. Petersburg died or ran way in 2 years. 50% of Moscow died or ran away in 2 years. Both were larger than Chicago same time, St. Pete had Manhattan size and population. Total urban collapse and decay in barely over a year. WHAT URBANIZATION?! Fucking idiot.
this was the urbanization he was talking about you fucking mental midget!
Cities generally are not self sustainable, or what do you think New York or London or Munich would do if it was suddenly cut off from the food sources and the luxury goods they crave?

>>14257334
So you're proposing a primitive low tech cute medieval fantasy land?

>You dont need to "mass produce stuff"
It's just more efficient. Even in your primitive world example, a bakery with a few EMPLOYEES (omg imagine the exploitation) will serve the village better than if everyone has to bake his own bread.

>>14257347
>surplus went away
I wonder what could have caused that...

>>14257314
Stalin needed grain for industrialization.
He looked at last year's harvest, which was unusually large, and said, "well shit we could have exported so much more grain than we did, let's increase export quotas for the next year".
When the next year's harvest ended up being way worse, the communist government refused to lower the quotas for political reasons, which is what led to starvation.

>>14257393
The war, the revolution, the bad harvest periods before, the breaking down of international trade? Oh no, I know what you will say: Communism!!!11!
>>14257395
Stalin wasnt even in charge during that time you dumbass.

>>14257271
>>14257280
The collapse of the USSR is inherent proof that a communist government has kickable doors. Even if they're not inherently centralized into a single location, you still basically have the state as a single point of failure - seize the state and you seize power. We've never seen distributed communism in the way we see the distribution of post-fordist finance capitalism

>>14255235
Ty. I hope the cake will be chocalate this year. What kind cake did you get?

>>14257373
Why would people baking their own bread be worse for the community? Why do you think its better to be an employed baker when you could be a free man and bake your own bread? And as I said before, I do not believe in systemic change, the world has been left a barren desert by the works of capitalism, the next society would be some form of crude post apocalyptical recycling agrarian society.

>>14257413
Wait which famine are we talking about

>>14257413
>The war, the revolution, the bad harvest periods before, the breaking down of international trade?
I'm sure it had nothing to do with the lower productivity, the communist government seizing supplies, planning and bureaucratic inefficiency, and denying aid.

>>14257427
The change is habbening you retard, we'll be fine

>>14257427
For the same but lesser reason why most people would be better buying and not making a car.

>>14257441
>the revolution
I just mentioned that, are you fucking blind? But you can absolutely not pinpoint these results singularly to "Commies"
Why dont you blame the tsarist regime that failed so hard that it was overthrown and its leaders killed off?

>>14257448
You dont need a car if all of your business is in walking distance, cars were the main movers of capitalistic "progress"
We dont *need* cars, or how do you think people the last 200.000 years managed to survive?

>>14257449
I didn't mention the revolution. I'm saying the soviet mode of production and government was in a large part responsible.

>>14257455
How is this relevant? We don't need bread, either. Whatever we "need", it is better to specialize in.

>>14257456
Im saying it wasnt, I'm not arguing for them I just deny the useless scapegoating.

>>14257427
>Why would people baking their own bread be worse for the community?
Economies of scale and so on and so on.

>Why do you think its better to be an employed baker when you could be a free man and bake your own bread?
I'm not a "free man" if I have to waste time doing tedious work like baking bread which I hate and suck at, instead of doing things that I like and am good at.
If you actually like baking bread you can do that for yourself or mass produce it or go work in a baking factory.


I think you'd learn stuff by reading pic related.

>>14257464
Its not, you can be a well rounded person, its actually much healthier and fulfilling to be so. Imagine doing art, making food and your own house. Whats bad in that?

>>14257468
>I just deny the useless scapegoating.
>The war, the revolution, the bad harvest periods before, the breaking down of international trade?
This is also useless scapegoating.

>>14257469
>I suck at things that are important for my well being, so I dont learn to do it.
Good reason, so its all about funsies? Well I hate slaving my life away for a paycheck, it makes me miserable, I'd rather learn to do everything myself than to pay someone for it.

>>14257472
No, scapegoating is when you blame multiple interconnected problems to one individual or group, just like Hitler blamed the Jews.
You intellectually dishonest fuck

>>14257470
It's not "bad". It's just incredibly hard, inefficient, and not practical. Think of all the foods you eat and how many trades are involved in building a house.

>>14257481
>No, scapegoating is when you blame multiple interconnected problems to one individual or group
It's a good job I didn't.
You intellectually dishonest fuck.

>>14257470
>be me
>want to dedicate my life to lifting and biology to learn how to develop human body to its limits
>have to bake bread instead
I mean I do bake to have that fresh bread and butter breakfast on the weekends but I'd rather specialize thank you very much

>>14257417
>that a communist government has kickable doors
But the government is still there. Every single politican in Russia is a "former" member of CPSU. Every. Single. One. And a literal KGB colonel is running the circus.
USSR collapsed because it literally couldn't feed itself in late 80's already. If not for the US food aid there would be millions of people dead of startvation in early 90's in Europe.

All they did was to rebrand themselves to get food aid and release the Baltic states. That's it. Transcaucasia and Central Asia were a drain since forever, so nobody cared they got separated.

>>14257470
>>14257474
It's obvious you've never had to build your own house or even grow your own wheat, potatoes, raise animals...
Doing this easily takes your entire day every fucking day and the products are still mediocre. It makes 8h work at a shitty job look like a vacation.

Good luck "doing your own art" after 16h of farming.

>>14257483
Holy shit dude, youre the most coddled bourgouise faggot there is. You dont need to eat all the processed trash that you stuff your face with, and of course modern houses are way more complex than they need to be, because they make more money that way, and cost you more. People used to live in wooden houses with stone foundations, that was a sort of house even one person could build on his own. Efficiency is an economic meme, you dont need to be efficient if you dont work for a company, if you work for yourself you can do whatever you want as long as it gets you to your goal.

>>14257487
>be me, be a lifting narcissist faggot who thinks "biology" will actually push human development
Why do you think you deserve to have that luxury? Nobody needs your pseudo scientific lifting advice.

>>14257494
Holy fuck, you never actually worked in farming, because 16 hour days are not the fucking norm you dumbass. When you have gigantic machines that you need to harvest and bring out massive amounts of seed and fertilizer than yeah, 16 hours are likely on some days, but peasants for most of human history had small communal fields and didnt even work 8 hour days (unless they had a shitty lord)

>>14257360
>you fucking mental midget!
> what do you think New York or London or Munich would do if it was suddenly cut off from the food sources
And how did that happen not a single imperial city ever starved from 1721 to 1917, yet barely a year into communism both capitol cities lost 50% to 70% its population? Hmmm? Why did in and after the February revolution the cities were still there, yet after the October revolt the urban civilization collapsed right there?
God forbid Communism had anything to do with it.

I'm not even going to point out how the largest exporter of food in Eastern Hemisphere became a perpetually starving shithole surviving on Western food aid and local cannibal gangs a year into Communism. That was not real communism comrade!
2 million 200k people strong city turned into a ruin of 700k malnourished slaves under XX century ISIS. In like a year. For what.

>>14257495
>You dont need to eat all the processed trash that you stuff your face with
Dozens of meats and fish, dozens of vegetables, fruits, coffee, grains, etc.
How many wooden houses have you built? Have you ever tried to grow your own food? You honestly seem like the coddled one.

>>14257413
>The war, the revolution
So literal bandits conducted robberies under the red flags, taking everything, including the next year seed. So the peasants had nothing to plant even.
And even then 50% to 70% of city folk fucking died or at best ran away to Turkey, China or the Baltic.
Because it was a centrally planned policy of "Serve Communism or die of hunger", and even then most chose to die fighting of die of hunger.

>>14257511
You could literally farm all these things on your own, and probably spend less than 6 hours a day doing so. I have not built a house yet, and I am not pretending its easy, Im just saying that simple farmhouses of the last centuries are leagues removed in difficulty and material cost compared to these modern bunkers we tend to have now.

>>14257502
Because I made a choice to be part of society that rewards efficiency coming from specialization, and that society was able to outcompete the other types, including the one you seem to be defending.

>>14257508
I remember being a little kid and having to help my grandparents on their potato field with my siblings. We had to work over 8 hours some days. It was dumb boring work.

>>14257515
>You could literally farm all these things on your own
I don't think we could. I don't think there is even enough arable land.
Why do want to grow your own food and live in a barn, anyway? I thought communism is supposed to be post-capitalist.

>>14257527
Im not a communist.
There is way more than enough arable land, the current food production is extremely wasteful of the resources, its easy to do it yourself, 1 ha would be enough, especially if you build layers on top of that, aquaponics and pigs for waste and foraging for example, goats that live on grass.

>>14257546
Bet you $5 goats are going to ruin everything.

>>14257525
It was 8 hours a few days a year, its not 40 hour work weeks when youre a farmer. (not some agricultural wage labourer, thst is part of the food industry)

>>14257551
Maybe, lets do sheep then. What Im saying is that its not unfeasible to be less directly reliant on a system of global exploitation

>>14257553
You're not gonna spend 40 hours a week on the fields in winter true, but you're going to spend 40 hours a week fixing all the shit goats have ruined.

tfw you think maybe these internet commies are just trolling, but then you realize roughly half of the population is below 100 IQ

How do we prevent these people from voting, before things go out of hand?

>>14257562
>amerilard trump voter thinks he isnt the sub 100 IQ retard

>>14257560
Not even during most of the year, the work load yearly would at most be 1/4th of what we have now

>>14257557
It's not unfeasible and I'm very much in favor of that but that doesn't mean necessarily abandoning capitalism, instead effort should be made to ecnourage local decision making, cooperation, freedom and moving past dumb consumption into I guess smart consumption.

>>14257562
the central planners have directed far too many resources into over-production of a worthless commodity (college marxists). all government funding of academia needs to be cancelled

>>14257562
I unironically believe Communism-like mind virii are like the Great Filter, with few sapient species passing it. A species needs to be smart enough to read the verbal virus yet too stupid to understand the verbal garbage hijacking their brain to create imaginary utopia via not-imaginary genocide and slavery, that precarious period when most people are too smart and can read shit but are too stupid to understand the consequences, so some highly-intelligent psycopaths hijack the idiots to build gulags and lock themselves there.

>>14257761
>>14257713
>t.

I could seriously not give a shit anout "owning" my labor in a mostly digital economy. It barely means anything anymore, shifting between some programs a day doesnt matter. The obly thi g I care abput that commies preach is there will be less work apparently but it could end up being an empty promise (which many of their propositions could end up being). So its not that worth risking my life over

>>14252573
It's not perfect but as someone who has survived socialism its far more humane

>>14257783
They try this via the belief they can manage sweepingly large and highly complex systems via worker control horizontally. We saw how that worked in Ukraine during the famine. There solution was a guy named Lysenko, I highly recommend you research him because his tactics are identical to contemporary Marxist virtue signaling today. That man got many legitimate geneticists murdered etc

>>14257783
>>14257796
What I mean plainly is this simply results in a kind of Politically Correct (a term Lenin developed) nepotism where only adherents are granted mobility and others get executed or thrown into a camp.

>>14257775
>ad hominem
Now I am totally pro slavery, genocide and world wars!

>>14257801
Youre pro capitalist?

>u hate capitalism cuz u loser n u poor
I'm not poor. I don't resent billonaires. stop praising the Almighty Dollar, you fucking apes. all you care about is bling and gorging in earthly pleasures? well, I don't. I understand capitalism has brought a great deal of prosperity and wealth, but that is not all life is about, nor should it be. there must be a purpouse for which wealth and propserity are the tool, not the goal
the relentless search for wealth, progress and material needs has polluted the planet, enslaved men and entire nations and destroyed critical thinking. because lil pump makes more money than a cultured pianist, he's regarded as more valuable by this corrupt and decadent system
and no, I'm not a commie. I'm not a nazi. I'm simply criticising a paradigm I don't agree with and see as unsustainable and destructive

>>14257825
Capitalism and Communism were crafted by Marx to dumb down debate and pigeon hole people. It's why adherents to Marxists are just a dumb horse living in denial, or like some eat Bolsheviks such as that infamous Bolshevik Sergey Nechayev ("Catcheisms of a Revolutionary") among others who were simply antisocial violent nihilists. Socialist implantation requires violent purges and deportations of opposition. Thus the cycle of PC Nepotism begins and you get things like Holodomar and Katyń.

>>14257842
All of this collapse predates the concept of Capitalism. Slavery, pollution, etc. The quest for progress is innate in man's ability at invention and adaptability as well as the desire for innovation. Ted Ks ideas are simply not practical nor desirable.

>>14257842
>because lil pump makes more money than a cultured pianist, he's regarded as more valuable by this corrupt and decadent system

Or maybe it's not "the system" but rather just people with shit tastes (aka most people) coupled with free choice?

>>14257842
Its that desire for success that drives us forward u mongoloid. If we didnt compete with eachother over who can make the best bling or who can create the best pleasure we would be stuck forever as slaves doing pointless work which would lead us to nowhere.

>>14257863
I'm not an extremist, nor an anarchist either. I believe ted k's ideas have merit, but I'm not anprim. I live a comfortable and free life under capitalism, and I appreciate that. but I do not praise the system as if it were a deity of sorts
the mere notion of some people (which are not few) disagreeing or wanting to change our society, as moderate as they may be, is a symbol of contradiction. if it were part of our nature, we wouldn't be able to resist it. you cannot disagree with breathing or eating, you simply do
I frankly believe this is not how we should live. should we organize a commune? live in the mountains like hermots? become anabaptists? overthrow the goverment? I don't know. I'm not proud enough to believe I have a solution, but I am smart enough to recognize there's a problem
>>14257868
these goods will exist because they are profitable, it doesn't matter who they cater. drawn paedophilic porn and sex tapes with unwilling women being degraded are sold in ultra-capitalist japan, whose goverment and corporations are allied with a criminal syndicate who sells drugs and people. not to mention their epidemic of depression and agoraphobia due to the enormous pressure some young people are submitted to
china's capitalism has subyugated their entire population under a repressive police state in the name of wealth and productivity
antisocial behaviour and obesity are rampant in the usa, whose goverment has suppressed any sort of resistance against it by using spionage and dirty tactics
decadence is real. a limit must be imposed against it
>>14257885
do not disrespect me, I have not insulted you
>drives us forward
to where?
>best bling
>best pleasure
that is precisely what enslaved you

>>14257932
>these goods will exist because they are profitable
They would exist in any "non-capitalist" society too.
What you're asking is not "non-capitalism", but rather totalitarian control.

>>14257932
>To where
it doesnt matter as long as it moves forward.
>that is precisely what enslaved you
Why do you assume that everyone cares about these things? U can live in a capitalistik world and not be ultra-consumer. If some people are stupid enough to care about pointless stuff like jewelry, so what? Why do you care? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything.

>>14258030
God no, I hate totalitarianism
the thing is that profit will exist in other societies, but I don't like how it's expressed and used in ours
>>14258074
>moves forward
do you truly admit that you have no idea about what is the end goal of prosperity? moreso, why is hoarding wealth, material objects and drowning in carnal pleasures a symbol of moving forward?

I don't believe men are isles. we are tremendously conditioned by others' actions, words and thoughts. else the notion of "society" would not exist

>>14252642
Most retirees are miserable as they have nothing to work on.

>>14252775
This, unironically.

>>14258074
because the system has become inescapable. is your response to this shit show really the ideological equivalent of "if you don't like the topic, why did you click on the thread?"

because it's the only thread in the catalog you simp

>>14255235
Alright, point given, but the thing is that communism is the only non-meme alternative to capitalism.

>>14252939
you're not tough, faggot

>>14252573
"I tell you, evil is inherent in the heart. Tied to one major source, a fountain of all things malevolent. When Angels and Devils weep alike, there lie true monsters."
- anon

I want to share something that happened today, not many minutes ago in fact.
My mate showed me and other friends a video of people trampling down the doors of a store during today's Black Friday sale. In response our ancap friend said, and I quote, "this is the result of 60 years of paternal state and cultural marxism. Bunch of mindless drones."
I'm still baffled. How can one have such a lack of self-awareness?

>>14252654
actually peasants in england only worked 100 days of the year before protestants

So how would euros fight the class war when they cucked themselves out of guns, or do they just think running around throwing turds in glass bottles is enough? Or kek theyll vote capitialism out or something

>>14252573
Asking questions to yourself doesn’t make you look smart, faggot.

Does anyone know which of these economic systems produce the most sexually healthy humans? Meaning no sexual repressions

>>14257192
Shh, don’t shatter their illusions, it’s fun to see them chimp out in their cages

>>14259957
Marx was pro gun ownership btw

>>14252775
What's the Marxist introductory package? Das Kapital, but anything else? I also disapprove of violence completely, so if any kind of physical conflict is insinuated by them or their modern footsoldiers, I will immediately back out. You have to be kind to EVERYONE, including and especially the people you dislike the most.

>>14252612
Found the neoliberal retard. Watch Thought Slime sometime. He's helped me a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuGWsxF8iI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHWAi_xCA_s

>>14260237
Of all youtubers, Thought Slime is the most repulsive.
Not getting personal regarding his disfigured mouth and nose speak, but he's also coming from this childish whiny position. Basically, at least contrapoints puts up a fascade of dialog, and philsophy tube thinks of himself as giving original takes, whereas Thought Slime is just summarizing twitter dogam and justifying a victim position of those people which, for excusing them of everything, collects virtue points.

>>14260008
Anarcho capitalism

>>14260267
Nah, Thought Slime is my favorite bread tuber. Mexie is hot though.

>>14260237
>>14260267
What made him like this? Did he grew up without a father? Was he bullied a lot?

>>14260267
I think I know the guy on the right in this photo.

>>14253053
read rosa luxemburg

>>14257289
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative
jesus nigga read a book

>>14257237
>it's the left wing that not only pushes this

You're so blind. Even this post will undoubtedly go over your head.