/lit/ - Literature

if that's not extremely obvious to you then you might be lobotomized

>>14207783
Yes. The more interesting question: What comes after? A calcified state of perpetual civilization or another rebirth of Europe in a new form like the shift from Classical to Faustian?

>>14207783
No. Spergtoid was retarded.

Spengler is right, but Jean Gebser is more right than he was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQbZ4X15LR4

>>14207841
He discusses it a bit in Man and Technics.
tl;dr if something does come after it'll be in Russia.

>>14207783
it depends how u look at it. just b urself :^)

>>14207783
Use your eyes and brain. You don’t need a book to tell that water is wet so why do you would you for that?

>>14207806
Based

>>14207783
Probably. But it will be another 50 years at least until anything happens or US actually slips down a notch.

>>14208438
Yeah fuck books!

>>14207783
Historical equivalent of cosmology. A frightful cretin.

>>14207783
It ended decades ago. It exists in name only.

>>14207970
I hate western retards who have no idea what "russia" is.

Why did we have to be born in the age of decline?

Europe has been through world war 2 since Spengler wrote his little book. He's a retard.

>>14208586
>Europe has been through world war 2 since Spengler wrote his little book.
yes, and?

>>14207783
You should read Reck-Malleczen talking about dinners with Spengler where he would talk about how Weimar outraged him, but the Nazis made him want to put a gun in his mouth.

Diary of Man in Despair

>>14208602
Testimonies of Christians should always be taken with a spoonful of salt.

>>14208612
while both were christian, i suspect a better describing word would be bavarian monarchist (in which case you would imagine that no political outcome outside the god-emperorship of the house of Wittelsbach would make him happy). His personality as represented on 4chan seems pretty incorrect however

>>14208588
And recovered.

>>14208625
Decline has been continuing ever since

>>14208629
In what way? Surely not in economic, technological and geopolitical sense. So in what way? Ideological? I could agree on that, but that will be washed away when the next wave of counter culture comes.

>>14208636
Very much detailed here.

>>14208636
>but muh GDP
Socially, morally, spiritually, you moron.
Also:
>geopolitically
How, the world is a powder keg.

>>14208645
Forgot culturally

>>14207783
We still have a good 200 years of caesarism. Retards that only read the title and a few Wikipedia articles should be hanged

>>14208650
i just hope caeser isnt flexing on culture using aspects of twilight and evening news. imagine declining the crown from the cast of a saturday morning talk show promising equality for trannies

>>14208642
Yeah, we should definitely go back to the days of famine, infection, 14 hour work days, unreliable housing, dirty food and water, ruthless winters, and constant fear from being drafted to war. Don't think everyone was born being a royalty. If you can't replace the middle class of today with the middle class of 500 years ago, don't bother talking at all. Just because you could marry a "pure" girl at 16 and there weren't people of different color in your neighborhood, doesn't mean the world was better, you fucking virgin.

>>14208645
>>14208648
All will be fixed by counter culture in a few generations.

>>14208658
Probably not. The tranny question won't be relevant in a few years.

>>14208659
what are you 17. you can have effective agriculture and medicine without deliberate destruction of culture and faith ala Satre. Anyways read the fucking book he doesnt even criticize technological progress, just the splintering and race to the bottom for culture.

>>14208661
What does that even mean.

>>14207841
China. They fully embrace crowded cities, "smart control" and technologization of everything.

>>14208683
This, China is post culture war. Do whatever the fuck you want as long as you dont rock the boat, rocking the boat left or right means you get disappeared. Also, please consume.

>>14208688
>Do whatever the fuck you want as long as you dont rock the boat,
In china, that leaves very little choice in terms of what you want.

>>14207841
The New World will be a new Europe: Petty fiefdoms fighting to become something greater.

>>14208683
>>14208688
China's going nowhere, they're even more centered around infinite growth than the West. The CCP's days are numbered, but Europe and the next Dynasy will be the Big Boys in global politics for quite some time after the US is gone.

And then China will stop being anything but a regional "power" for a very long, long time. Read some history, fellas, the CCP are Neo-Parthians.

>>14208671
It means it's in human nature to seek change in sociological norms

>>14208667
It's a false dilemma liberalism uses. Either you have trannies cutting your kids cock off, or you starve to death. Anything in between is simply impossible.

Yes, it really ia that dumb.

>>14208636
read the book retard

>>14208636
>Surely not in economic, technological and geopolitical sense.
Yeah, Europe still owns the colonies...

>>14208695
>China's going nowhere, they're even more centered around infinite growth than the West.
That´s the point. Your culture has to be centered around growth in order to be on the upwards direction. Plus it also needs to have culture promoting virtues that help in that direction. Euros and Americans are focusing more and more on internal struggles and are growing technophobic.

>CCP are Neo-Parthians
Parthians never had world's largest population.

>>14208625
"Recovered" implies it improved since the war ended. It didn't.

>>14208625
Imagine thinking that

>>14207783
No. There is no such such entity as "the West" in terms of a stable, persistent constant. It's a construct that is retroactively applied to a chaotic and disunited historical progression. If there is no West, because it has always been changing, fomenting, and replacing itself, then it cannot decline. It can only mutate.

>>14208721
Most of China is also functionally illiterate, what's your point? You don't seriously believe the CCP's narrative that the whole world was buying everything from China until Euros engaged in foul sorcery in 1600, right?

Right?

>>14208792
By your logic the Roman Empire and Roman Republic, and indeed every state above patriarchal families of less than a dozen members, have never existed either.

>>14208797
>until Euros engaged in foul sorcery in 1600
This gets funnier once you figure out that Europe slew most of its magicians around that time.

>>14208792
even abject post-modernist intersectionalist 4th wave twitterati acknowledge the west, if only to condemn it.

>>14208553
To be the ones to turn it around.

>>14208792
>a stable, persistent constant.
There is no such thing as an object as a stable, persistent constant.
This is the answer to the constant, persistent problem caused by the eternal Ship of Theseus that sails our minds.

>>14208839
But you can't turn it around, just like you can't turn ageing back, you can at best just postpone the inevitable death

>>14208850
Or get an heir.

>>14208797
>Most of China is also functionally illiterate
So is most of US. Doesn't change the respective trajectories of the two.

Do people actually find Spengler convicing or do they only like him because he provides an intellectual figleaf for an otherwise irrational hatred for women, minorities and homosexuals?

>>14208797
>every state
Are you an american or something? West isn't a state and never was. For most of history there wasn´t even "the west", there was "Christendom".

>>14208858
He doesn't mention women or homosexuals a single time in the book.
Minorities a few times if you count the Greek concept of barbarians as "minorities"
The book is mostly history of math autism

>>14208858
Adorno like him.

>>14208864
What he actually says in the book is irrelevant

>>14208858
B-A-I-T

>>14208856
China's trajectory is a few more years of prosperity before their traditional regime collapse and massive civil war

>>14208872
> /lit/ in a nutshell

>>14208792
>>14208841
Parmenides and the Eleatics would like to talk to you

>>14208863
Reread my initial post, it appears you didn't.

>>14208856
Right, the US will continue to decline, China will implodr, experience glorious rebirth under a new dynasty, get its time in the sun as Europe and it duke it out, and then collapse into a long irrelevance when the next dynasty takes over.

I'm glad you've understood what I initially said, but saddened that it took you this long to get it.

>>14208896
>>14208877
You honkeys are insufferable. The Chinese Communist Party will never lose control of China.

Morons.

>>14208896
>China will implodr, experience glorious rebirth under a new dynasty, get its time in the sun as Europe and it duke it out
There´s nothing to get apart from the fact you are spewing bullshit. PRC is not on trajectory to collapse and Europe is nowhere near trajectory of seriously challenging it.

>>14208527
At least read the book first you illiterate, braindead retard. He states between which rivers he is talking about geographically you stupid cretin.

>>14208912
>>14208909
>Hey, yeah, I know that literally every prior dynasty has undergone this exact same pattern and that China's economic system is predicated in continuous increases in economic growth while inhabiting a finite world and that any criticism of this system results in an unsustainable virtue spiral of doubling down...
>But the CCP said it'll be different this time, so it will!

>>14208909
*ahem*
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 劉曉波动态网自由门

About 2500 years too late.
Or 10,000.

>>14209014
Most Chinese dynasties were ended by steppe warriors raiding and pillaging China, leaving millions dead in their wake.
>>14208636
Ethnically. The Netherlands is literally already dead for the Dutch; extrapolating current demographic data tells us white Dutch youth already are or will be the minority of youths in the Netherlands within the next ten years.

>>14208683
We'll see after the next event that kills 300 million bugs.

>>14208864
This is literally all I saw in the book, a bunch of nonsense about math. What does it have to do with anything other than him being a stemfag?

>>14207970
That might have been the hot take a hundred years ago but the great Tartar superstate pales in comparison to the coming Chinese century. It looks like it will be China, not Russia. Though Spengler had no way of foreseeing this.

>>14209014
>Hey, yeah, I know that literally every prior dynasty has undergone this exact same pattern and that China's economic system is predicated in continuous increases in economic growth while inhabiting a finite world and that any criticism of this system results in an unsustainable virtue spiral of doubling down...
Can it continue to grow endlessly? Nope. Can it continue to grow to the end of century? Yes.

The PRC is young dynasty, it still has lot of time.

>>14209063
Yes, that is literally what I have been saying this entire thread.

>>14209063
>china
>young
Stupid fucking honkey, China has been the dominant force on the plant for 3000 years, since the Xia fucking dynasty. Where were was the West then? Living in caves.

Dumbass.

>>14209138
>Dominant force
>Most notable projection of power was building walls in central asia
>made an absolute bitch by huns, mongols, manchus, their own cannibalistic tendencies
You don't know your ass from your elbow

>>14208490
In fact, we should burn them.

>>14208909
>The Chinese Communist Party will never lose control of China.
The party erased everything good about Chinese culture.

This is better
https://youtu.be/aiCTq_AHcqw

>>14209138
PRC you stupid nigger.

>>14209133
You've been saying that prc is "going nowhere" and will "implodr". That´s the opposite.

>>14209138
China has just been continually assraped by whoever felt like assraping it for its entire existence. All it ever did was manage to be economically productive because its peasants are genetically ultra strivers

>>14209051
Spengler was talking extreme long term though. Specifically that the next thousand years will belong to Russian Christianity.

>>14209346
I think it's the correct timeframe.

>>14208508
This. The US is a shopping mall and everyone is trying to raid the shelves before it’s emptied.
Europe is too weak to do anything (no guns) so if something is to be done it will be the US. But until McDonald’s closes down and the TVs are disconnected nothing will happen

>>14209493
Sure love McChicken

>>14207783
But where can i find a decent harcback version of it?

>>14208671
Every upcoming generation appears to push back against social norms and create their own counter culture movement accompanied by art. When the young grow older, there could be a traditionalist wave due to growing up with tattooed, tranny faggots who tried to push their ideology onto them

>>14207841
Probably another 1,000 years of darkness before whites are able to break down and come back out on top again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKb01XLPR7E
>literal baby's first realisation of modern politics
Spengler should be 101 Philosophy

>>14209047
How a civilization conceives of numbers both effects and is effected by their entire world view.

Faustian - numbers as function, immaterial, possibility of zero = immortality of the Christian soul, the other worldliness of Heaven, contrapuntal music, capitalism

Greek/Roman - numbers as physical magnitudes, absolute corporeality, impossibility of zero = Greeks believed their gods physically lived in Greece, sculpture, Roman slave economy (the slave as an impersonal physical unit of currency)

Chinese - numbers as emblems, the relation between numbers, qualitative (number 1 is more astrologically significant than a peripheral number like 300) = the Tao, the relation between all things (yin and yang), impossibility of any kind of intentional wealth gain (Chinese always hated the merchant class)

>>14209032
>muh blood, muh soil

Recommendations for books related to this thread? Histories of civilizations and shit

>>14209767
Michel Onfray - Decadence

>>14209767
Discourse moved away from the 'civilizations' thing decades ago

>>14209772
Recommend a book, faggot

>>14209766
>muh inbred 90iq Muhammadan replacement slave caste

>>14208625
>>14208629
>>14208756
>>14208777

Imagine actually reading the book. I didn't but to argue that 'Europe' is in decline is just as retareded as saying that you were born in the wrong generarion. You want to feel special here by saying it's declining, meanwhile you're only showing the scared faggit that is afraid of the future. Muh Sprengler, muh history.

>>14208438
>so why do you would you for that?
huh?

>>14208625
Economically sure, but GDP isn't the only meaure of success.

>>14209138
>honkey
lmao weak

>>14207841
pan mongolism

Was any point in history actually better? Cities used to literally be filled with shit and rotting meat

>>14210597
based retard

Fetishizing the past is nothing new. I'm sure even the Greeks at Troy would have considered themselves the decline because of how they talked about how good their ancestors were in comparison to them.

>>14208650
This. It's just /pol/tards and communists looking for justification to complain about the world and no one bothering to actually read what he was saying

>>14209051
Actually in Man in Technics he also mentions asia more broadly including china. He suggests that as the west declines and our technology destroys us the asians (specifically those who are not white) will adapt and use our tech. Pretty much exactly what is happening.

>muh decadence

>>14210794

>>14212405
What is with the grandma tier facebook image

>>14207806
fpbp

literally how can anyone think otherwise

>>14209766
Yes, replacing a people with another will destroy its culture, traditions and way of life effectively killing it in every way that matters, it merely become another empty economic zone.

>>14209726
Trump is Crassus, not Caesar. We have yet to see the rise of Caesars.

Imagine thinking you can understand Spengler before understanding Goethe's Naturphilosophie.

>>14213124
The people in every country are constantly replaced. Not a single person from Victorian England is still alive today.

>>14213279
You don't see the difference between children inheriting the culture of their ancestors and importing stone age half-apes?

>>14208625
in which way?

>>14208483
>doesn't understand that WW3 US-CH has already begun
Time to start paying attention friendo.

>>14209138
"China" doesn't exist. "China" has never existed. "China" never can exist.

>>14208909
sure it was never the bitch of Japan, England, Portugal or Mongolia

>>14208683
fuck the chinks

/pol/ likes to think it has something to do with the "left" and globalism but Spenglers reasons are completely different

>>14213294
>muh mystical connection between people who didn't exist at the same time, never met and had nothing in common

>>14208636
That's what happens when you have opinions on books you obviously haven't read.
Spengler considers these grand imperial ambitions to already be a bad sign of civilizational sclerosis.
The west is in decline, according to him, because the Faustian vision is dying, and people have only a perverted version of the spontaneous vision determined by the conception of infinite space as loci of determination.

>>14208553
To suffer