/lit/ - Literature

>>14199427
i'm surprised no one's managed to construct a pro abortion argument from the /pol/ side

>abortion is eugenics
>nigger babies will grow up to be niggers
>fucking kill all niggers

>>14199427
Why do Christfags get so SJW over abortion?

>>14199427
>babies have no moral status because we know we're gonna kill them
???

>>14199437
i think the cold attitude toward abortion is actually just a twin of the cold attitude toward life of the /pol/fag
like how are you going to sit there talking about killing fags and act like abortion is bad

then their only option is to pretend they actually care, which they suck at, so they get all sick-sweet and pompous- then you can take that and be more /pol/ than /pol/, say that you don't give a shit

I don't understand why abortion is still even an argument, philosophically or practically. It's pretty much legal in all of america, sure republicans can overturn a few laws here and there, but it's here to stay.

Why fight over what is inevitable? And more then that in front of us occurring every single day.

>>14199464
>I don't understand why slavery is still even an argument, philosophically or practically. It's pretty much legal in all of america, sure republicans can overturn a few laws here and there, but it's here to stay.

>moral moral moral moral morally moral moral

all morality is derived from the bible. if they aren't children of the book, they shouldn't be using that word. im not watching this past the 2 minute mark.

that's a bizarre argument about the telos of the fetus being the foundation of its moral status. why wouldn't she make the argument that we can only give moral status to conscious, sensing beings à la Aristotle?

>>14199475
I seem to recall a bit about "dashing the heads of infants against" something

care to comment

>>14199427
abortion is murder
i have the right to murder anything that needs to live inside me to survive
end of discussion

>>14199485
ok. doesnt change a thing i said though.

>>14199427
She's right for a woman

>>14199485
you are an actual retard haha, get that verse pointed out to you from an athiest redditor or youtuber huh? you obviously have no understanding of the context

>>14199503
what about apocrypha

>>14199437
Varg has

>>14199507
well, you can call unwanted children "enemies" because they'll probably grow up to be criminals or otherwise threats

>>14199472

I figured i'd get something like this, just because something is right doesn't mean it should be etc.

Slavery was human ownership, something that's been overturned many times throughout history in multiple civilizations. Even in Russia they went to serfdom which was just slavery light of course.

The whole of human thought seems to be pushing towards a more progressive scale where individuals are allowed to embrace their individuality WHOLLY and figures in power including the government have to accept this and support/fight for it in first world countries.

>liz harman is philosopher at princeton, the ritziest university in the world
>liz harman is retarded and probably shouldn't be at princeton
>liz harman's father, Gilbert Harman, was one of the biggest names at princeton and a massive influence on hiring new professors
>the Harmans are Jews

>>14199528
but prison labor is slavery and that still exists
the counter to "um what about slavery" is "what the fuck about it"

>>14199522
like "babylon" is whoever's a threat to you. a stretch but so's everything

>>14199540

Ok you're probably right, I think Tocqueville discussed this indepth. I still think abortion is an entirely separate unique problem. It's not as if one day everyone woke up and thought to themselves let's kill babies. It's a by-product of a fully modernized society where God(s) of any kind are less important and practicality is valued above everything. There's a lot more to be siad on the issue then i or anyone can cover in one post but regardless of if I or anyone in this thread supports it, it is most likely here to stay.

>>14199560
i have a purely materialist argument against abortion in the works but the churchies being snotty to me makes me not want to release it

>>14199536
Surely those are just coincidences batman! Just what are you implying?

>>14199437
This is a pretty common /pol/ take

>>14199492
This is a better take than trying to redefine what a baby is. In most cases still immoral though.

>>14199573

You sound legit anon i wish you the best of luck. You should do it, plenty of controversial writers made enemies throughout history, but i feel like anti-abortion arguments can tank your academic career if yo have one that is.

>>14199427
Bump

>>14199427
Abortion is unironically first-degree murder.

>>14199451
Because it's murderous child sacrifice to moloch

>>14199472
This analogy implies that we're eventually going to have a civil war over abortion. Which is honestly entirely possible, there's been a very strong hardening of positions on both sides of the debate recently.

>>14199457
But we also know that a fertilized egg is a human embryo is a human being. Humans have rights, including the right to not be killed against their will. If that's actually what she said (I couldn't sit through her talking), she's a sophist with a flimsy argument.

>>14199464
Because it's wrong. Morally, ethically, legally. Babies have inalienable rights. The legal system just doesn't care to protect those rights because these eugenics benefit the state and the liberation movement hitched a ride on the same wave.

>>14199427
>>14199457
Makes perfect sense to me.

>>14199437
The same people that post nigger hate threads are the ones that larp as christians because incel cope
It’s a cesspool of cognitive dissonance

>>14199464
Because conservatives are the real crybabies. They love to talk about crazy sjw’s then they get defensive about gay marriage, abortions, black people etc

>>14199528
what's progressive about killing babies

God isn't white.

>>14201511
God is a girl

>>14201520
No, the Judeo-Christian god is non-white and male.

>>14199464
One of the shittiest takes in defence of abortion. At least roasties use the egoist argument, yours it's just shitty appeal to authority.

>>14201531
but ariana grande my favorite minstrel actress told me that my god is a girl

>>14201548
Ariana Grande is a pawn of Baal

There's a certain points progressive politics and women empowerment must stop, and that's mass murder. There is a massive slaughter of innocents right now in the developed world on the altar of both nefarious and misguided forces. Hopefully more civilized future generations will look upon this phenomenon as an outdated wicked barbarism like we do slavery.

>>14199437
They do use this argument to make lefties seem like hypocrites, but I don't understand that. you'd think "getting what you want" > "making your opposition look hypocritical" but /pol/'s never been logical. Really they're just as emotionally charged as the left is; maybe more so.

>>14199475
So before the bible was written, people just killed each other at random, because there was no such thing as morals? So the Code of Hammurabi was just entirely arbitrary and based on nothing in particular? Do you have any refutations for pic related?

>>14201600
>bridges the is-ought gap
Nothin personnel kid

>he thinks that's bad

Nobody tell OP about Peter Singer

>>14201637
yes, i can acknowledge this, but there was more in my post than that book

>>14199437
This is actually an extremely common argument from the average /pol/ user because the average/pol/ user is too stupid to see that incentivizing anything for blacks just trickles it back through white culture. Their argument should be financially incentivizing childbirth for whites while heavily taxing blacks per individual child. But /pol/ cares less about their own people than they care about irrational edginess, cringe frogposting and wignat LARPing

>>14201400
yeah i'm not seeing the issue either

>>14199427
The problem I have with abortion is not the infanticide, but the mad and feverish desire of "empowered" women to absolve themselves of the personal moral burden that comes with it by denying it. This mindset is unthinkable to 95% of moderns

>>14199536
you're thinking too hard about this goy, just a coincidence

>>14199475
>all morality is derived from the bible

>>14199427
The problem with abortion is that no one can make a good argument against it.

Conservatives are real crybabies. Follow the true libertarian path.

>>14199427
A American university professor is a nutjobs with stupid logic and reasoning , not surprising?

>>14201851
abortion is murder. life begins at fertilization. there is no good argument for it, it's always muh body or you start qualifying murder as okay.

>>14201913
>They have no consciousness or memories or feelings when they're that young!
Unsurprisingly, these people suddenly find themselves spontaneously staunch supporters of all forms of euthanasia, and then for culling the elderly and disabled, then enforced maximum ages, and so on..

>>14201851
based

>>14199427
Sounds reasonable enough.
I get that many people disagree, but you can't really refute her point.

>>14201315
Hallurluyer

>>14201600
The world is only 5000 years old dumbass.

>>14201600
Are you retarded or just very stupid?

>>14199464
It was a debate that was never actually settled. The reason it's legal on a federal is because there were activist judges that literally pretended the founding fathers meant to include a right to abortion as part of the amendment guaranteeing a right to privacy. There was never any law that passed.

>>14202096
lol

>>14202135
The legal foundation for abortion is extremely weak and the Democrats know it. It's why they panic every time a supreme court judge dies.

>>14199427
Abortion is killing babies.
BUT that’s a good thing.

>>14201939
>all forms of euthanasia, and then for culling the elderly and disabled, then enforced maximum ages, and so on
And this is not acceptable because?

>>14201745
This.
Why would you want a group of people who are heavily mixed into your people in daily life being as morally bad as possible?
This doesn't just "own" them (Although, to what end? Black people have no independent power.), it owns you by modeling bad behaviour for your people.
How about "Don't condone killing babies". Done.
Easy own.

>>14199427
SO CLOSE TO GETTING IT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTmN9gamAM

>>14202473
Abortion is not killing babies, though, that's just dupery for idiots.

>>14199536
How did I possibly intuit that Harman's logic was similar to the logic of the Talmud and that Harman was probably Jewish (in my previous post) without having read this post first?

>>14202483
It's grotesque. What more do you want?
I could accept it for eugenics, but it's not done eugenically.

>>14202495
It's a medical intervention, you might as well get angry at appendectomies.

>>14202512
Do appendixes also grow into fully formed human beings eventually?

>>14202518
Is smashing a seed equal to chopping down a tree?

>>14202523
Besides the point that tree's don't develop consciousness, the point is after fertilisation not on the seed itself.

Abortion falls under self-defense.

>>14202543
>gewrd put a soul in mummy's tummy
Purely theological reasoning that has no grounds in reality.

>>14202555
Where did I mention anything about soul's? You absolute brainlet.

>>14199427
The entire pro choice argument makes no sence considering women DO have a choice it's called not fucking with no protection when you haveed no desire to conceive. How do you even get an unwated protection when there are like 10 different ways to negate it. Abortion is simply taking away the potential of a future human because you couldn't abstinent from unprotected sex which is simply an aweful decision. In a purely pragmantic sence abortion is good because you wouldn't want people like that to breed but it has such a negative implication when you consider that you put the life of people into the hands of stupid women.

>>14199427
If abortion is murder then ejaculating outside a womb is half murder.

>>14199427
My ex gf looks like Miia. I miss her bros

>>14202543
>Mind grows in the body
>The mind of a fetus has been differentiated from the mind of its mother
Pro lifers are simply bad at philosophy and ignorant of biology.

>>14202647
When was the last time you nutted outside of a womb and a child was born from it?

I don't know why you shitposters are attracted to threads like this to spew your mouthbreather nonsense.

Its a roastie get out of jail free card, all it is. If this was a just world the procedure would leave them sterilized. The fact that having children is this horrifying to modern people is the real issue and hopefully this society rots and something better spawns when this is barely a thought

>>14202676
And why should you not differentiate the mind of the fetus from the mind of its mother?

Can you determine when the fetus develops it's own mind?

I think you're ignorant of biology and no nothing of it but pretend to.

>>14202710
I kept nuttin on my cousin's panties and they grew some mold and some little mushrooms after that

>>14199437
predicting and strawmanning arguments dont nullify them, get off your high horse for once

>>14200147
anything good for e-reading on a linux distro ?

>>14199528
>The whole of human thought seems to be pushing towards a more progressive scale
Brainlet or troll?
Do you think history started in 1950?

>>14202135
>The reason it's legal on a federal is because there were activist judges that literally pretended the founding fathers meant to include a right to abortion as part of the amendment guaranteeing a right to privacy.
Roe v Wade was the most dishonest thing I have ever read in my life.

The morality of abortion is entirely dependent on the biological quality of the parents.

>>14201573
pol doesn't have any way to get anything they want, outside of humiliating people online. This means that "getting what you want" is often the same as "making your opposition look like a hypocrite". Remember the Proud Boys, a lot of those guy got arrested by the FBI and/or had their bank accounts seized for being a assaulted by ANTIFA and winning

>>14199528
This has to be bait.

>>14199485
To understand the bible as a series of statements that were meant to be logically coherent is to perhaps miss the point entirely.

>>14199464
>Why fight over what is inevitable?
What a pathetic take

>>14199427
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5SQnQjryzI
Where's the lie, though?

Abortion is legal for Judaism, that's it, you don't need to look further to understand the issue.

>>14199427

I am convinced by no one in this thread that has claimed that humans are realized fully and with rights at the moment of conception. If you're arguing from a theological perspective where humans are ensouled upon conception, then fine, that's consistent if unenforceable, but everything else has just been noise. Why is the moment of conception the line for gaining rights? Why not at least a partially developed brain? What about memories and consistent identity?

>>14205133
>Why is the moment of conception the line for gaining rights?
because that's when two mere delivery systems of genetic material combine their potential to humanity to create an actual humanity. a new unique blend of DNA, a person.

>What about memories and consistent identity?
what afuckingbout them?

>>14205133
Because in order for any argument to be in favor of abortion, it needs to be argued from the most extreme edge; simply put that humans are realized fully at the moment of conception; any other "markers" of life would just be shooting the argument on its foot because so many people have different opinions--in fact I even think it's easiest to argue it from this position.

>>14205133
if this is even a question in your mind, YOU should be the one getting killed.

>>14205176
So your definition of a person with rights is a unique blend of human DNA? That doesn't seem like that is well established or agreed upon even among pro-lifers.

>>14205199
So you're arguing that because there isn't consensus on when a human life really begins, that we should take the furthest extreme to be safe? I somewhat agree with this line of reasoning, but I think that there is enough agreement that there needs to be at least a slight amount of awareness to be considered a life. The theological argument is covered here due to the soul but the materialist argument is lacking.

So whay is the exact stage in development when it is "wrong" or "immoral" to abort exacrly?

Humans are faggots, they need to become extinct and leave room for other species

>>14205376
just because you're a fagoot, doesn't mean everyone else is

Abortion is based and anyone opposing it should get raped and shot.

Every abortion is potential future profit lost.

>>14205429
brainlet take

>>14205300
I'm not sure I'm the one to decide that, but I'd wager if you could pinpoint a stage in fetal development when there's a brain that is in some way aware. Then, just to be safe, roll back allowed abortions to a stage before, with the possibility of being performed in a later stage if the mother's life depends on it.

>>14205289
It's not a matter of taking it to an extreme. Arguing that life begins at the first heartbeat or the first feeling of pain is subjective and does not serve as a precise definition. Human life is a co-mingling of DNA, this is the only exact definition that can be used. To use any other means of defining a human life leads to all sort of philosophic problems, i.e. if the sense of feeling defines a life, then can you lawfully kill the comatose? Any viewpoints in the middle ground are poorly thought out

>>14201315
Morally and logically this is true, but it is way too convenient in society so people like to forget the nasty details

>>14205620
Why is the first heartbeat more arbitrary than the comingling of DNA? And again, are pro-lifers advocating under your definition?

>>14199457
the view is that the future is determinate. For some present fetus F, F has moral status iff in the future it is born. If, in the future, F is aborted or miscarried, then F does not have moral status now.

the biggest claim this view takes is an determinist-eternalist ontology of time. Given this ontology, the ethical view, that F has moral status iff in the future F is a person, is compelling.

>the fetus doesn't have a heartbeat, we can abort it
>the fetus doesn't have a brain, we can abort it
>the fetus doesn't have a personality, we can abort it
you literally cannot make an argument for abortion without acknowledging that the fetus is a person able to possess things. they accept that the fetus is a person and are, in reality, arguing about what kind of persons can be killed.

>>14199560
I honestly don't know how people manage to construct such arguments when even a cursory google search brings up lots of examples of abortions well bevore the modern era.

>>14204797
he seems really mad

Is he christfag?

>>14199492
Why do you have that right?

>>14199475
Which is why the people described in the bible didn't have morals - since all morals where derived from the bible.

>>14205662
I would argue that a magically fully grown adult with no brain would not really constitute a true human.

>>14205741
>a hypothetical man who popped into existence fully grown (against the laws of nature), and didn't have a brain (and is somehow still alive despite it) isn't a real human being so abortion is okay
yeah, great argument

>>14199464
Because it's one of many fronts on which the Sexual Revolution has to be rolled back to stabilize the population.

>>14205754
I'm arguing that mind and humanity are inexorably linked, so a fetus without a brain is not yet a person.

>>14202880
Most SCOTUS rulings are that bad desu.

>>14205683
i honestly don't know how people manage to equivocate the occasional medieval abortion with the ubiquity of contemporary abortion when a cursory google search reveals that there have been 1.5 BILLION abortions in the past 50 years.

>>14205683
they didn't pretend it wasn't murder though. in fact, most methods posed a serious risk of killing the mother in the process. the number of and attitude to abortion is completely unique today.

>>14205794
holy shit, imagine 1.5 billion more people on this earth

>>14205791
>a person without a brain is not a person

>>14199536
>Jews
Every.
Fucking.
Time.

>>14199437
The problem is that abortions damage whites more than others, so it would be a self-defeating argument ie whites being bred out of existence.

>>14199437
I am a right-wing pro-abortionist. My argument is that men need equal access to abortions and since they cannot bear children then the term must be extended without limits and beyond the emotional labor of the body.

>>14205890
>The problem is that abortions damage whites more than others
They actually don't.

>>14199427
Her father is on the faculty

>>14199492
Rights are nothing but social consensus. You don't have shit if society says you're wrong. So you sitll have to demonstrate why society should enforce that 'right'.

>>14199462
No, I'd prefer blacks were sterilized rather than having liberal abortion policies. Don't hate gays, only the socially crusading ones... Fags are like 2% of the population, no one would give a shit if they'd keep things demure and private.

>>14202481
Love it. The dad basically says that if jews don't stick together then they'll dilute into nothing. Tries to play it off like he's just talking about the religion, but the subtext is obvious. I wonder if they feel even a shred of guilt about that kind of hypocrisy.

>>14199427
>>14199427
Ethicists, like theologians, aren't philosophers because their subject matter has been refuted hundreds of years ago.

>>14206542
you're the real philosopher here.

>>14203955

Why am i pathetic? Because I don't try to fight powers beyond me?

I have no problem if some women tries to kill off something inside of her that's not even mine, who am i to have control over someone else's life. Apparently most women support abortion and they are the ones with the human inside them, I don't get why I am a "brainlet" for letting humanity take its course.

>>14206569
you're not a brainlet, you're something much, much worse...

>>14206596

Nice meme zoomer.

>>14206607
>ye-hep, i just got 'er painted last week. took 'er down ta main street auto, they gave me a real good price fer the job. cost me 3 grand, but i just took it outta timmy's college fund. Abortion? he-heh, now look here mister, i don't get political. just look at that chrome shine! just polished them wheels up good. man, that turtlewax really works wonders!

>>14206432
>You don't have shit if society says you're wrong
Damn btfo by society again

>>14206566
you too

>>14199427
This is not an argument, she's just restating that abortion is acceptable as a reason for why it is acceptable, it's a total non-sequitur. You're telling me this is a professor at a major American university? How embarrassing.

>>14199427
>apply her argument verbatim to anything else just replace the word abortion and fetus for your example
>you can justify slavery and murder by its existence as justifiable
>hurr durr this isn't retarded at all
I am deeply disturbed that this passes for authority

>>14205717
he's jewish but it's not like the religious jews are really pro abortion especially with retarded reasoning like that