/lit/ - Literature

>>14185616
are you dumb?

philosophy and science ask different questions and seek different answers.

>>14185616
Science can’t find values
Most people aren’t comfortable living in a universe that is a moral void

>>14185616
>only SCIENCE can get to the truth
>don't ask me how science can determine the best epistemology though

>>14185616
It's peculiar how that single expletive, "using a fucking flashlight" just reveals the entirety of the person who wrote this. Miraculous really, almost poetical.

>>14185616
>that image
where's the lie, though?

>>14185616
you just posited a philosophy you desk lamp

>>14185654
True
Also, can anyone recommend a book on this subject? A well elaborated defence of philosophy in an age of techno-science

>>14185616
t. Wittgenstein

>>14185616
I fucking hate the Oatmeal

No. Read Whitehead.

>>14185634
Finding the truth is not really the point. Its creating a more accurate portrait of reality that will assist you on finding whatever means you can to realize your ends.

>>14185849
They're also an anti natalist?

>>14185850
"Also we must recollect the basis of our procedure. I hold that philosophy is the critic of abstractions. Its function is the double one, first of harmonising them by assigning to them their right relative status as abstractions, and secondly of completing them by direct comparison with more concrete intuitions of the universe, and thereby promoting the formation of more complete schemes of thought. It is in respect to this comparison that the testimony of great poets is of such importance. Their survival is evidence that they express deep intuitions of mankind penetrating into what is universal in concrete fact. Philosophy is not one among the sciences with its own little scheme of abstractions which it works away at perfecting and improving. It is the survey of sciences, with the special objects of their harmony, and of their completion. It brings to this task, not only the evidence of the separate sciences, but also its own appeal to concrete experience. It confronts the sciences with concrete fact."

“Philosophy is not a mere collection of noble sentiments. A deluge of such sentiments does more harm than good. Philosophy is at once general and concrete, critical and appreciative of direct intuition. It is not—or, at least, should not be—a ferocious debate between irritable professors. It is a survey of possibilities and their comparison with actualities. In philosophy, the fact, the theory, the alternatives, and the ideal, are weighed together. Its gifts are insight and foresight, and a sense of the worth of life, in short, that sense of importance which nerves all civilized effort. Mankind can flourish in the lower stages of life with merely barbaric flashes of thought. But when civilization culminates, the absence of a coördinating philosophy of life, spread throughout the community, spells decadence, boredom, and the slackening of effort.”

>>14185834
i'll hook you up. wait a minute....

"this is fucking simple" by anon the great (2019)

science does jack shit for helping a person find a sense of meaning and fulfillment. science does jack shit for articulating a coherent political ideology.

the end.

-afterword-

i hope you enjoyed my book! :)

>>14185834
Science is a component of philosophy anon!

>>14185857
He's basically the embodiment of your typical redditor.
Fat, lazy, smug fedora wearer

>>14185867
Hahahahah SEETHING!
I'd like to see a picture of you.

What a stupid image

>>14185867
The guy's a millionaire who runs ultramarathons. You may think he's a moron with retarded views, but a fat basement dweller he's not.

>>14185622
Based and redpilled
It’s important to have comprehension and respect for both in order to understand the world around us

>>14185616
I agree, OP. I F***ing Love Science!

>>14185849
God I hate parasite-brains.

>>14185861
kek unironically this. don't demean yourself by needing to play their language games.

>>14185616
(((Einstein))) and other scientists credit philosophy for their breakthroughs
seems it’s good to strike a balance
best of both worlds

>>14185654
I know exactly what you mean.

Why can't STEMbugs into art and philosophy?

>>14186359
Fractals.

>>14185849
>utilitarian antinatalism

>>14185616
Science is a philosophy relating specifically to the material world and to empiricism.

>>14186207
Me too!

I've always believed that because Science cannot collect Data to prove insight into morals and aesthetic values, but Philosophy can with a metaphysical and epistemological basis, Philosophy justifies itself in its entirety.

>>14185616
You need abstract thinking to understand reality.

>>14185616
This is fucking WMD-grade cringe. Let’s try again:
>Philosophy is like being in a dark room and looking for a door
>Metaphysics is like being in a dark room and looking for a light switch
>Science is like being in a dark room and deciding to sit down and solve math problems out loud to pass the time
>Theology is like being in a dark room and going to sleep to see if things are different when you wake up

>>14185654
Excellent post. I have been meeting this type of person my whole life, I even remember one back in high school.

>>14185654
What makes it worse is I used to be one of them during my early teens.

>>14185616
philosophy is like masturbating in a dark room because you're afraid of the dark
metaphysics is like masturbating in a dark room because you're really afraid of the dark
theology is like masturbating in a dark room because you're really really really afraid of the dark
science is like making a fire that illuminates the room, realizing the room is even darker after being illuminated, and then accidentally burning the room down with your fire, while your philosopher, metaphysician and theologian friends who were using the fire light call you a retard for burning the room down

>>14187205
You have to be 18+ to post here

>>14186986
>>14187205
yikes and cringe to both of these

>>14185654
It reminds me of the equally brainlet tier "the curtains were fucking blue" meme

>>14185616
>Is philosophy useless?
Yes
> What's the point of "thinking" about meaningless abstract bullshit?
So you can compete for status amongst lost souls
> Science actually reveals the way reality works.
In the narrow band of your personal expertise, maybe... But most will overapply their knowledge. And if you are getting your "expertise" second hand, it will be distorted for someone else's benefit

>>14185856
>empirical induction is more accurate than rational deduction

>>14187052
Its okay to be retarded as a teen. I found that the expression of my retardation leads to correction and from that I learn. Its actually why I shitpost

>>14185616
Read Heidegger, faggot.

>>14185849
Imagine you could grow a mosquito into a cute kawaii uguu waifu who becomes a respectable member of your life and heritage.
Kinda ruins the parasite argument, no?

>>14185849
>kittens
>independent
>literally born blind and deaf

>>14185616
I am thankful so much for science and scientists every day I wake up and say "thabk you, science!" because of how awesome science is i love how objective it is and i love how rational it is and i love how there is no corruption in the sciences and scientists are so smart the scientific method is so awesome except for when it says something that might help the nazis then it's wrong bad icky no no scientists save us!

>>14185834
They don't exist because anyone with even a cursory understanding of either recognizes that they are complementary and not oppositional disciplines. Scientists and philosophers have been engaging with each other since the 17th century split between the two. The "conflict" between them is an artifact of know-nothing public intellectuals flinging excrement at each other while real people do the work

>>14187631

>>14187833

>>14187833
Wtf is "Shitterbama"? Didn't Obama support abortions?

>>14187833
>>14187840
This is fucking horrifying
I feel like it has to be fake but it might just be because the idea of a real person being that soulless is too awful to entertain

>>14185616
Science is done with philosophical assumptions, often very messy and complicated ones (i.e. reducible to the more fundamental). Which means it doesn't address what philosophy addresses. Think of it as a chain of research being based on one interpretation of data. It may be of use but it's very narrow, and in that you can't go beyond that narrow space as to expand its conclusions beyond is to become delusional and possibly obscure and destroy intellectual development.

>>14187853
Alabama

>>14187864
First one seems like a troll
Still doesn't explain the 1.9K upboats though

>>14185863
This. Google Francis Bacon.

>>14185616
>Not knowing that time Dreyfus btfo the stembugs working on AI at MIT
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Dreyfus%27s_views_on_artificial_intelligence

>>14185616
science has many assumptions and is wrong about many things

i can guarantee that you hav not seriously engaged in philosophy, metaphysics or theology, otherwise you would not say these things

here's a quote from max planck
“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

you might also enjoy this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSBaq3vAeY

>>14185616
>What's the point of "thinking" about meaningless abstract bullshit?

looks like someone is asking philosophical questions

Science is like looking for a black cat in a dark room with a flashlight when there's a fucking light switch.

>>14187205
faggot

>>14188425
t. scared masturbator

>>14186395
Ugly as fuck desu never got the appeal

>>14185616
>Science actually reveals the way reality works.
That's philosophically debatable.

>>14187375
>>14187294
how the fuck do you figure

>>14185616
>uses the word 'bullshit'
>assumes 'reality'
>trusts empirical evidence more than pure logic

yup, it's a midwit

>>14185616
Looks like Sam Harris disciples are starting to spill over from Reddit

Doesn't the problem of induction enable you to dismiss all of science?

>>14187745
F2f is going on at that conference!?

>>14185616
Science is a philosophical theory

>>14185627
>Science can’t find values
Neither can philosophy though, even after looking for 4000+ years.

>>14185616
The flashlight of science can only illuminate one spot at a time. Philosophy takes all of these illuminations into account and tries to figure out what the room looks like with the lights on.

>>14187745
where is this photo from? is it really so bad? where the fuck are we heading? what will happen in 10 years? would mentioning even the sex of participants in a trial be considered "bigotry"? God save us

>>14185616

More like

>science is being in a dark room and concluding it must be the entirety of reality.

>>14186860
Based. Before it was called science it was called natural philosophy. Philosophy is our effort to understand. Philosophy birthed science.

>>14185616

>>14190085
Georges Lemaître, the guy that first proposed a big bang theory, was a Catholic priest. Reddit-tier atheists think science killed God and cant be bothered to read anything other than Harry Potter and Marvel movies.

>>14185616
>Science reveals the way reality works

>>14190126
Catholic physicist priest. Just man that was trying to get closer to God through fully understanding of the physical world.

>>14190076
oof

>>14185861
Based

>>14185616
It's indeed useless for the vast majority of society, because it doesn't come naturally. It requires a very specific configuration of spirit in order to be made useful. You basically have to be a philosopher for philosophy to have any real value to you. If you aren't one, you're wasting your time and possibly even hurting yourself.

>>14185616
>Is philosophy useless?
no but as soon as science can explain everything it will.

>>14185622
Imagine being this fucking retarded.
All science came from philosophy and all philosophy seeks to become science.

>>14185849
It makes me feel nauseous to think about the people that enjoy this pic

It makes me feel nauseous to think that this pic hasn't been posted yet

>>14188213
hehe

>>14190275
>all philosophy seeks to become science.

imagine being retarded enough to believe this

Philosophy makes mee see in complete darkness

>>14185616
Philosophy is determining in general which concepts should we apply when trying to interact with %EMPTYSIGN%
Metaphysics is determining what the nature or being or becoming of those concepts are
Theology is a dogmatic second cousin of philosophy, which produces concepts only in service of a singular or an assemblage of concepts which then is used to interact with the dark room.
Modern Science is a dogmatic second cousin of philosophy which produces concepts only in service of a singular or an assemblage of concepts which is then used to interact with the dark room.

>>14185616
if you think philosophy is about meaningless abstract bullshit then you need to go back
if you need a reason to think about philosophical topics you need to go back

>>14185616
This faggot again?

>>14187833
>demon removal

>>14187833
>>14187840
holy shit they are on so many layers of denial
do whatever you want but at least take responsibility of getting a human being killed instead of hiding behind stupid buzzwords

Like this thread, everything is useless. Science is a dead end though. Newton had science conceive of gravity in one way, only to be replaced by relativity. No reason to think it won't change again.

>>14185616
>Is philosophy useless?
No
>What's the point of "thinking" about meaningless abstract bullshit?
To figure things out that science hasn't revealed yet
>Science actually reveals the way reality works.
See above. Science is held back by perceptions. Objective reality is not what we perceive and until we realize that we will be stuck where we are.

>>14185616
Science is rooted in the principle of uniformity of nature, which is... wait for it... philosophy. The belief that other minds exist is entirely non-empiricle, and is... wait for it... philosophy, skirting the edge of theology. Science teaches you how to make a flashlight, but the intentionality behind finding the cat is teleological, not empirical, which means it’s... wait for it... ethics, which is explained through philosophy and justified moreso through theology. Obligatory ‘read a book nigger.’

>>14185616
What the hell is wrong with empiricists.

>>14185654
OPs pic was probably made by a woman

What's outside the room? Where's the flashlight come from? Why is there a cat?

>>14185834
philosohpy of science

>>14185834
Science is a tool that cannot justify itself without appealing to philosophy. It's the typical fallacy of materialist empiricists to presume all the shit they need to put their science goggles on and then act like they don't need to justify any of it.

>>14193210
I probably agree, but can you elaborate please?

>>14190034
what is theology

>>14192246
>knowing objective reality is the thing we should strive towards
nietzsche proved this was wrong

>>14193825
>proved

>>14193762
Empiricists say that all knowledge comes from sense experience, but the truth of that statement doesn't come from sense experience. They rely on non-empirical truth in order to justify their worldview which rejects non-empirical truth. Since it cannot actually justify the claim it can be rejected as dogmatic, self-contradictory nonsense.

>>14194249
thank you, that makes a lot of sense

>>14185861
this.

>>14185654
True

>>14185849
>>14185857
They probably hate children. An anti natalist would say we force the children into the world and how we are selfish for forcing ankther life into existence, but they just appeal to babies are ugly.

>>14185616
Simple. Science is simply a process. It can give you facts and figures. but how they should be applied and interpreted is the realm of philosophy.

I think its stupid to bring up if philosophy is important, because you need a specific philisophical underpinning to make that ascertian in the first place. What is important? Its not the same to everybody. Some are utilitarians, while others care more about freedom, others security, others contentment.

>>14194249
>Umm... But what about solipsism?
>haha empiricists btfo!
I love bad faith arguments

>>14194570
prove causality empirically
prove noumena empirically
prove logic empirically

>>14185616
The sophists were right.
Objective truth is unreachable.
All you can do is argue well.

>>14185834
The Moral Landscape

>>14185616
>dude, science is the only method of understanding that's valid
>just ignore the fact that it's mere existence and validity is predicated upon mathematics and logic, and that it can only truly answer which are testable, and that the problem of induction means nothing it comes up with is ever truly certain

>>14185616
Imagine being this dense. You're viewpoint stems from a place of ignorance. Read more. Learn more. That's all I can say.

>>14195661
Philosophy is mathematics without rigorously defined terms.

>>14195662
K

>>14195662
>doesn't understand the difference between the quantifiable and qualitative