/lit/ - Literature

>>14162273
The accelerationism should lead to all the things on the right.

How do we escape ideologies that revolve around capital if that seems to be the only important thing to people?

One "progressive" idea is buying locally to support businesses.
Radical feminists want women to be in positions of CEOs (and men to fuck off)
Green bois want to make industries more ecofriendly and the only reason that's an issue is because it raises costs.
Europe has a fiscal crisis and those are the main problems candidates adress throughout their campaign.

I agree with you. I'd also like to see ideas that don't primarily revolve around money, but it feels like we aren't capable of considering anything that doesn't revolve around muh profits.

Accelerationism would be an ideology though obviously.

I have this feeling that Zizek's work on Ideology is almost like a 'revolutionary' 2.0 on Nietzsche morality/ubermensch

To live in a post-ideological world we would need to be able to tackle the problems the world faces at the root source. As it stands there is a dialectic between problematising, and problem-waivering. For instance, is there an immigration problem, or should we have 0 borders?

All this false arguing hides the fact that power resides beyond national-democratic means, and there's nothing either side of the debate can do to stop each others complaints.

Without ideology, we could end the kind of post-colonial wars that create mass migration, but we could also end national protectionism of car or chemical industries.

As long as we remain stuck within ideology, we remain stuck with the wrong answers, like closed borders with transnational conglomerate protectionism, or all these stupid ass 'climate change' initiatives like "reducing speed limits" and "raising gas prices" that change nothing

there's a little bit of truth to each side which becomes hysterical in the paralysis of dialectics, but to get beyond this point feels a bit like asking everyone to become an Overman

>>14162265
How about Anarcho-Fascist-COMMUNISM?

>Inb4 dughgh ur ideology is a meme

Its just accelerationism with more steps, we accelerate capitalism into the ground, cause society to collapse, maybe cause a nuclear winter, then people can collectivise into their own little groups of societies, we can have ancap societies, commie societies, some white nations, etc. that all are mutually at ease with eachother through a global NAP
only the high iqs will see the value in this

>>14162297
"Industries" are things that involve material goods. If I make furniture for friends and family and sell some of it locally too, it's not really about the "capital." It's about people in a community having access to things they need. I don't care about having a huge profit and I don't want to buy things just to buy things. I just want enough.

So the first transformation should be to help people understand this mindset. First we answer the "capital" issue and this will help the remainder of the conversation be less about money.

>>14162354
I think that ideology isnt really a problem, i think its more like a cultural thing, as there is an everincreasing thirst for social capital, and also an artifitial necessity for an status Quo, or as my father said, "Spain has always had 3 masters"(im from Spain for some context)

>>14162354
I think the wars are more about greed and power and the immigration seems to be a function of biology. So even if it were possible to make the majority of people have no ideology the people who want to profit from war would bitterly resist this development.
>>14162369
I've been thinking something along these lines for a couple years now but I don't know how we would achieve it.
>>14162394
What 3 masters does Spain have?

>>14162419
It can be achieved through Accelerationism and a bit of luck, maybe a lot of luck

>>14162430
I guess we have to at least try, right? But where to start?

>>14162369
whenever i see the phrase nuclear winter i roll my eyes and keep scrolling

>>14162369
I've had this idea for a while, like if your political system was just an app you sign into. Fancy communism? there's an app for that. Fancy anarchism? Anarchapp.

If we were all living and working within 'corporation nations' that we could sign up to like a phone contract, and then leave if it feels like a shit deal. All the white supremacists can congregate in peace.

it would mean no longer living within nation-states, but corporate-states (and no, there wouldn't necessarily be borders... or would there?)

>>14162419
Referring to the "three masters" is a metaphor i think of how there is always an invisible Hand be it the monarchy or another force that Will always maintain the current state of things ,if not for a violent insurgence to occur.

>>14162265
Authoritarian psychedelic libertarian extremism. The first step is to make me the all-powerful leader. I will first set up camps. All of the obese will be sent to a camp. The obese will be starved and the only food available will be vegetable mush that they must eat from a trough. Sending obese people to a camp is a much more economically sound option than letting them walk. Upon becoming a normal weight, these obese people must be evaluated. If they display some form of value and display gratefulness for being forced to lose weight then they may possibly be allowed to leave. The genetically diseased, the LGBT, and anybody who has ever masturbated to tranny porn (that includes 90% of you) will be sent to a camp. You will be starved, forcefully administered high doses of psychedelics and beaten with sticks. We will have a two class system. We will have people who are above a certain intelligence and people below a certain intelligence. Those with high intelligence will be given a high amount of liberty and freedom while those with low intelligence will be used as slaves.

>>14162460
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>14162265
All you need to know is, the freer the market the freer the people. It was right in the 18th century and it's right in the 21st century.

>>14162470
fuck the market

>>14162460
4/10. Nice try though.

>>14162460
Nice b8 m8

>>14162470
Fuck the market It has brought us famine and war and all Sort of terrible human crimes and this late stage capitalism husk of a culture

>>14162474
>Oh look at me 'Fuck the Market' Oh la di dah I'm le epic proletariat uprising
If it wasn't for the competition that comes from free markets we wouldn't have half of the innovations we have today and we could be stuck in some 1940 tier dystopia. Thanks to lower taxes and less market regulation we have more money in the economy and more people can do constructive things with their money. A millionaire can decide to have an extension on his house built. That gives money to the builders who make it, the architect who designs it, the electrician who connects wires to it, and the glass person who makes it.

>>14162493
The free market created competition and that gives the consumer between one product and another. It overall helps the superior product get better and forces bad products out of society.

>>14162265
yes

>>14162460
>not just making high fructose corn syrup, excess salt and sugar in food, and porn illegal

>>14162499
You have to be a troll.

>>14162499
What are these great innovations brought out my the free market?
Last actually revolutionary one was a car and that's well over a 100 years ago.
>>14162509
How do you battle giant corporations that holds a monopoly like positions on the market?
Surely you don't think big tech companies don't push for new products by destructive updates on their (to that point) still usable older devices or what have you.

>>14162265
Nothing will happen. Capitalism won in the 1960s when social liberalism eroded the capabilities for discipline and hard-work necessary for any organized opposition. Nowadays people can only LARP as revolutionaries of different stripes, but no one is able to exhibit the kind of commitment to a cause overriding everything from pleasure to health that was characteristic of early 20th century Bolsheviks or French Jacobins.

Most people can't even spend an entire month without masturbating, do you think they will ever have the self-control to organize a movement to topple a technological sophisticated apparatus of domination?

>>14162538
Sorry to say this but it sounds like some fukuyama level shit, and even he retracted from the end of history statemenr

>>14162527
Nice ad hominem
>>14162529
What great innovations? Lets see iPads, fridges, central heating in houses, double glazed windows, internet,more food than we could ever imagine, gyms, electricity that brilliantly lights up our houses at night when it's dark. The list goes on, I could be here all day to be honest.

>>14162287
Or collapse of the technoindustrial system :3

>>14162559
Communism means nothing more and nothing less than a neohegelian universal homogenous state backed by total NATO-Israeli airspace dominance.

>tfw CIA, DARPA and the RAND corporation were the real communist vanguard all along

>>14162572
>Cia
>Communist
How can you be so wrong

>>14162564
>muh stuff
>isn't the modern world grand
We can have internet, heating and plenty of food without corporations running our country and my coworkers buying $700 watches and going out drinking every night, then complaining about being broke.

People invented most of the important things BEFORE we were consumerist wageslaves with no idea what is really good in this world.

>>14162571
Not me

>>14162581
haven't you read Kojeve? The smartest Trotskyists around all rebranded as ''neocons'' for a reason, you know? Tankies, chicoms, Putinists have more in common with Fascists than with the genuine liberal tradition that includes Marx but also America's founding fathers, Trotsky and Lenin, MLK, the feminist movement, pro democracy protestors

>>14162612
plot twist
It's all Jewish

>>14162559
Liberalism can still be challenged from without, by Russia or China (some think the Islamic world can pose a challenge too, I disagree). These countries still maintain traditional authoritarian structures and disciplinarian methods of education that allows them to organize effectively against Western hegemony.

What I don't believe is that a challenge can come from within.

Accept powerlessness
There are ideas not meant for the common Man
Be a good father, husband, friend, and community member
Do not poison yourself with lofty ideas and abstractions
Then you will find happiness
None of you will change the world through these abstractions, of things you cannot know. Your heros are fools and frauds

>>14162604
Yeah, capitalism isn't perfect, I admit it. People despite having all this great technology are lonelier than ever and depression and anxiety are higher than ever.
>coworkers buying $700 watches and going out drinking every night, then complaining about being broke.
I understand you, I hate those people who so naively waste their money on items they can't afford and then complain about being short of cash. I myself am not a drinker and think that people who fill themselves up with narcotics every night to avoid reality are weak. But I also firmly believe that as time goes on the free market will find solutions to these problems just as it has solved the problems of infant mortality, disease, whole families of eight having to live in a two room tenement, people having to wait weeks to send messages to and from each other across an ocean. Again the list goes on with how competition and free markets have improved our lives.

>>14162635
There is nothing traditional about the current state of China. It is 100% the result of the modern word.

>>14162265
Governments exist through the medium that gave rise to their existence. The digital government is a pending project but will probably mirror a government that lives by invisible nudges and punishes with exclusions or economics.

>>14162604
Human beings have always been consumerist wageslaves with no idea of what is really good.

>>14162645
Except the free market leaving to the burning amazonas. Also, as the free market works, the rooms in modern apartments Will probably become as small as those capsule rooms in Japan. And if the market really were pro-consumer, then there wouldnt be a price on basic goods like shelter,or how people are dying because the price for treatment is too big to handle, or how Minimum wage has been frozen while worker productivity has skyrocketed, or how automatation wouldnt look like a threat if It wasnt in a capitalist system.

>>14162564
Touché on the Internet.
Ipads are just a gimmick of smart phones.

I'm not sure if you count inventions which have developed further because of military use to be fully the markets influence, if you do, we pretty much agree then.

Central heating was designed by the Romans and only improved, the heat retention double glazed windows provide was only known by the Romans.

We have more food than we can imagine and yet somehow people are still starving.

If I recall correctly Tesla was preaching for free energy and that didn't seem to hold with some other folk.

Gyms are just great, but those were known by the Persians.

>>14162645
Would you also agree that research institutes (backed by the state or private sectors) offer a quicker way to develop answers we desperately need?

>>14162645
>I hate those people
>people who fill themselves up with narcotics every night to avoid reality are weak
I understand personal responsibility but have you ever even considered what kind of environment produces these kinds of people?
>take away any sense of community, spirituality or purpose and give them a bunch of garbage to buy
What did you think would happen? Although, this is the intended consequence in my opinion.
How will the market fix these things if there is no incentive to the soulless people who only care about their profit margins? They'll just keep selling you the "magic pill" instead of the real cure.
>infant mortality, disease, whole families of eight having to live in a two room tenement, people having to wait weeks to send messages to and from each other across an ocean
Once again we can fix these without international corporations taking over our political system, and without them being allowed to feed us poison.
>>14162659
That's a myth.

Turn back
Save yourself the
From these games
Shut down the computer

>>14162476
>>14162488
How is it bait? It's a good idea.

>>14162742
This is 110 IQ way of solving problems.

>>14162499
lol

>>14162685
>Would you also agree that research institutes (backed by the state or private sectors) offer a quicker way to develop answers we desperately need?
Yeah, just because I support the free market doesn't mean I hate everything the state does. The state occasionally does some things right, but that doesn't mean the free market couldn't do it better.
>>14162676
Minimum wage is a globalist conspiracy to keep the big businesses in power and the small businesses weak.

Personally I wouldn't want to live a pea pod but if there's a market for it it'll sell. Houses being expensive and rent being too high are a result of interventionist policies by the government in 2008 and the Amazon burning is the fault of the idiotic government in Brazil, not capitalism.

>>14162705
When we complained about food being too unhealthy they changed it. Why wouldn't they do the same with phones, beer or internet? I actually support those things being improved by entrepreneurs.

>>14162772
Please, stop listening to Molyneux, for your own sake. Just unsub.

>>14162754
Okay, now that's an epic reaction may may response.

>>14162809
Watched like one of his videos and thought he came off as unauthentic so I just never watched him again.

>>14162796
uuhh, no they didn't

>>14162819
uuhh, yes they did. How many more foods these days are advertising as low cal or high in protein? That's food becoming healthier.

>>14162772
The 2008 crisis is a result of (mostly) banks, hedge funds and insurance agencies being retarded, having free reign and no one stopping them.
They should have failed as the market intended them to, but no. They had to be saved because "too big to fail" bullshit.

Real Estate being expensive is a result of demand being higher than supply. Their worth grows because there are people that don't have housing and yet still desperately need it.

>>14162273
Yikes.
But anyone else notice the marked improvement here since the acc trannies stopped spamming?

>>14162509
>now have tasteless cheese and hidden inflation
Nice try, ASS.

>>14162833
>here stop making your own food or buying from someone you know and trust that does it right
>instead pay very little for poor quality food made in another part of the world
>oh you caught us poisoning your food and using slave labor to produce it
>here buy some food made in a halfway normal way for 100x the price it was when you were buying it from the people down the street

>>14162836
Capitalism is about profit and loss, if we bail out the losers there's no end to the cost.

>>14162889
It costs about the same as it did before and is about the same level of healthiness as it did when you bought it from the local shop down the road. It's all your own choice like I already said the freer the market the freer the people.
>>14162888
Inflation is the governments fault not the consumers fault.

>>14162796
You're such a fucking retard

>>14162946
>It costs about the same as it did before and is about the same level of healthiness as it did when you bought it from the local shop down the road.

Lmao, ask me how I know you've never stepped a foot outside your hive

>>14162273

>it was kike tier

>>14162927
My point exactly, just let them die, no matter how big they are.

the thing is, ideologies are dead.
we should move on into ideas, which are not extremelly opressing as ideologies are. ideologies are blocks of concrete that smash everything and everyone, whereas ideas are flexible and can be combined. life isn't a football match, you aren't full left-winged or right-winged. the only thing that happens is that you are afraid of thinking everything by your own. wake up, /lit/.

>>14162994
We stand on shoulders of giants, our ideas are not our own. You are a fucking idiot. Individual rights were a mistake.

>>14162956
>>14162951
Nice ad hominem losers, enjoy starving to death in your communist welfare estate utopia

>>14163010
Enjoy your bugfood, faggot

>>14162989
Goodness, then it seems we are in agreement.

>>14163015
Okay.

>>14163018
I thought this was but a myth on 4chan.
I still think monopolies shouldn't be a thing, since they hurt the consumer more times than they help him and they can appear because of the free market.
Ironic how we didn't manage to get out of OP's ideology weariness though. Just more of the same in the end.

>>14163002
i wish i could punch in the face rousseau, voltaire and montesquieu to not let them start this fucking tragedy that is my life.
however, i'm daily more and more skeptic about this giant shoulders where we stand. with the skill and effort we can do things, anon. believe.
i don't have neither the skill nor the will, but i will be a helping hand, i will use my flesh as a tool to help the virtuous.

>>14163052
As the man in the arena who just failed the bar exam, I appreciate your words. I'm gonna try again in feb. No matter my words of entropy and apathy, I'm gonna keep going for those of us who never asked for this.

>>14162927
So what does it mean that capitalism is 500 trillion in debt?

>>14163071
That the "system" is working, debt is the way money works now because we have the nukes. Can we talk about the gold standard?

>>14163079
>because we have the nukes
I don't see how this plays into it.
Even Jews in Middle ages used debt to grow their wealth.

In times when digital money heavily exceeds physical money and physical money exceeds gold, I highly doubt we have even a smithereen of a chance for gold standard.

>>14163125
Because the united states is the global super power with military influence over all other countries (read nukes) that means whatever our standard of trade will become the basis for the majority of the rest of the world. We got off the gold standard and technology started allowing faster exchanges of goods/funds/etc allowing to exceedingly speedy accumulations of debt. Money doesn't mean anything. Owing someone something is simply an idea. These methods of exchange only work because the US is in control.

>>14163138
What do you think will happen if China keeps doing its thing?
Personally I think USA will go to war, because it won't be left with much of a choice.

>>14162265
>old ass economic systems and ideologies like neoliberalism or communism is trash and gay.
>We need a new kind of thing, not like some pee pee poo poo anarcho-fascist shit
You can't because anything new will be pejoratively called fascist/communist/neoliberal. We are fucking stuck with these and it sucks.

>>14162354
>ve this feeling that Zizek's work on Ideology is almost like a 'revolutionary' 2.0 on Nietzsche morality/ubermensch
Double retarded.

>>14163146
It seems like china's tendrils will only extend to the surrounding economically weak countries. I think that the Pakistan/India religion issues are probably going to start a global war if anything, china then supporting the countries we don't support and starting another cold war type deal. Invading other economically powerful countries is bad for business, but proxy wars in 3rd world nations is great for production and consumption. It's all fucked.

Unironic lazy fair capitalists are even worse than commies.

>>14163163
China's gaining a lot of influence in Europe sadly. There's a neat thing mentioned in Houellebecq's Serotonin how it's influencing agriculture there, you should go through it if you haven't already.


Even if you are on the other side of political belief you're pretty chill. Thanks for keeping the discussion civil, there's enough shitposting as it is.


>>14162265
Great thread OP, sadly for the wrong reasons.

>>14163201
The freer the market the freer the people.

>>14163163
>but proxy wars in 3rd world nations is great for production and consumption
Nah wars mostly just kill people and ruin cities, towns and people's lives. Production and consumption don't really count since probably everyone in that country has PTSD of some degree.

>>14163138
Not how nukes work, retarded burger.

>>14162499
>freedom good
>innovation good
Why?

>>14163214
Ha, for sure. I'll look into it.
>>14163260
Oh I wasn't talking about people in the country where the war happens. I mean it's good for the military industrial complex state. Weapons production, job openings from recruitment for civs, looting and plundering. It's good for them.
>>14163261
Could you elaborate, my friend? How is absolute military control of the world not how nukes work?

>>14162265
Honestly, you need to read Roberto Unger. His philosophy stuff is great (The Self Awakened: Pragmatism Unbound; The Religion Of The Future) and his politics stuff is next level, He has a super technical series called Politics but I would simply go with his Free Trade Reimagined and his Democracy Realized.

These are all on libgen btw

>>14162265
As a secondary and totally opposite path from Unger, you could look into some good Neofeudal strategies, like Dugin's Fourth Political Theory or Moldbug.
This sounds memey, but if you study existing Feudalism, aka Europe from 400-1500ad, then you will see that the Enlightenment was a massive fuckup.
May I suggest reading the history book Feudal Society by Marc Bloch?

>>14163314
>Moldbug
Yikes

>>14163332
moldbug is the prophet of our times

>>14162571
>>14162273

Techno-theocracy is the only way.

>>14163332
I agree, I was mainly talking about the current itself.

Anyway, Unger's solutions can be implemented right now in our biographical time as opposed to historical time like every other revolutionary fantasy.

I think there's something to be said for Bookchin's left post-civilizationism and Kaczynski's right primitivism, but it's only that the analysis is correct. Their solutions are total bullshit.

>>14163287
>Pragmatism Unbound
kek
>Philosophy as a discipline devoted to expanding the range of things that can be said: Philosophy is neither super-science nor form of self-help, Unger argues; it is most effective when it adopts a third mission, which is to be a discipline devoted to unsettling, undermining, subverting, and expanding the range of things that can be said.
Jesus McYikeseys.

>>14163351
>McYikeseys
McCringey

>>14163347
>silicon-edge-liberalism
Without question.

>>14163348
AH, BUT: it must be post-civilization, that is, total distribution of society, relatively evenly. Cities are a disease. We then use the activation of volcanoes or we use regional nuclear war to set back the climate clock, and then we must implement Feudalism, but with Renewables and technology. The Priesthood are also the Engineers.

We will then have a perfectly stable, that is to say, as stable as physically possible, human society that can last into our eventual ascent into space.

>>14162419
>>14162369
If we believe it possible to create space colonies, couldnt we do the same thing without the collapse part? Some rich industrialist can finance their ancap palace, while a collective of commies could make their communal colony, and anarchists the same?

I always kinda thought this was the reason most space age settings dont have political-economic undertones as much. Its kinda like the old Greek concept of the polis, if you dont like one, move to another. the problem nowadays is that different states are all relatively super similar in the grand scheme of things, and we cannot expand into much more land for different civ experiments.

>>14163350
>Unger's solutions
Name one.

>>14163374
I've been watching legend of the galactic heroes recently and this is literally all the show is about. Ideological warfare manifesting in bad ass ship battles across planets and the expanse of humanity across the stars.

>>14163269
There were two sides. And once Russia collapsed so did the nuke order and the US soon afterwards. This means something other than what you think it means, something almost completely opposite.

>>14163350
>neolibs are now attempting to recuperate Kaczynski and anarchism
I don't know whether to cheer or laugh.

>>14163262
It satisfies man's natural state, and advances technology.

>>14163374
The collapse isn't necessary, but even your local politics steers like a boat. World Geopolitics steers like an MSC Cruise Ship.
What I'm saying is, yes, we could do it right now as we are, but we'd have to stop fucking off all the time in a bunch of makework and gridlock, where we just rip each other off, scam, and virtue signal online.

Most of what's wrong with society, holding us back in all fields, is this useless kayfabe ideology going on, where everyone has the psychological neuroses of wanting the worst to happen and also memeing ourselves into total inability to act in any way other than in ultimate crisis, and currently, even that has slid into total psychic lock.

The problem is that the mass of people on the planet are sick of the way things are, yet are totally convinced it will never, ever change.

So, yes, the collapse is not only necessary, everyone is subconsciously playing chicken to make it fucking happen. If you think otherwise, you haven't been reading the news.

People won't even leave Facebook even though they KNOW they've been manipulated in psychological experiments going back to 2014, and had all the other scandals since. They WANT to be fucked over, they want something really insane to happen.


I think the only other way is if people do things like Unger's Experimental Deep Freedom programs, where you can set a bunch of groups of people outside the Mainstream, and let them try any number of more or less radical organizational approaches, not just to how politics is done, but to how production is done, how science is done, and so on.

And you see that coming in Elon Musk and in Peter Thiel and in Andrew Yang, although Yang is just a guy running on educating people on the concept.

>>14163366
he is by far my favorite blogger of all time. Reading through the UR archives is top comfy, especially when he posts some entire chapter of an obscure book

>>14163384
Hm. I was thinking more republic era (and even somewhat imperial) star wars or 40k.

There is an overarching bureaucracy, but each individual state has its own sovereignty and a good amount of autonomy to implement their specific political system. There are fuedal worlds, republics, kingoms, commie states, ancap state, and completely lawless or primitivist places as well. Of course in 40k, the amount of mobility between places is limited to the uber privleged, but in star wars most people who are not defacto slaves can usualy afford to at least travel one way. Also, kinda prevents domino effect of whatever revolution due to the vast distances of non-soverign land (in this case space) and little cultural diffusion.

>>14163408
>Unger is neolib

Jesus Christ, what a brainlet post

>>14163382
I named one, Deep Freedom. That's a programmatic thing, you'd need to actually read any of the materials, including the wikipedia articles on his books, since you're a skimming bitch and are naysaying shit you know nothing about.

You don't even fucking know what neoliberal means.

>>14162265
Damn he looks great

>>14163481
This is basically what Unger's Deep Freedom is, it's allowing groups within a nation or international union to experiment with social organizations outside of, but in tandem and even in concert with, the larger Mainstream organization.
And that includes philosophical as well as economic arrangements.

It's like Municipalism with a State to fall back on or improve upon.
Once a given experiment is proven to have made an improvement, the findings are applied to the host state, or if it works but isn't applicable, the people in it are allowed to keep on with it in isolation or in union with compatible experiment groups

>>14163456
No, I pretty much agree with you. Without a big bad like "the commies", or the post hoc hopefullness of the 90's and early 2000's, its pretty much all been gridlock on relitively petty, and in retrospect, inane "big issues" like identity politics that were slowly falling to the wayside anyways until people inexplicably brought it back up and made it incindiary, explicit, and accusatory instead of slowly falling into implicit obscurity (remeber the Irish in USA? They are not exactly an oppressed group today, not because people pushed for Irish rights, but because it just fell to the wayside). I didnt even think Racism was much of a thing anymore outside of the hicks until the 2012 PC culture rising.

However, I dont now if people are "sick" of the way things are now, its simply the lack of a clear cause and rising midwit pessimism.

The Deep freedom project sounds interesting.

>>14163500
That's actually pretty neat. Im going to look into it. Seems up my alley as a relativist. I'm the star wars/40k guy btw.

>>14163483
What is he then?

>>14163483
>Deep Freedom
lmao
>>14163500
This is literally what we already have, fucking ASS brainlet.

>>14163500
I would say that I am essentialy more Conservative, simply because things that have and continue to have happened have demonstrable results. Im relitively happen with my life in a western country, and most people I see are as well. There are definitly imperfections, or potential for the system to be better, but the presumption of "revolutions" is that the state is innately flawed in of itself, and that a theoretical model will be better. However, logicaly they can only say that the new regime will be "different" not better, and what defines better is relitive in the first place. All I know for certain is that the current system is working to an efficiency of relitive self satisfaction and I would not wager that on a theoretical idea, encombent on a revolution, that would dissessemble the complex network of processss on a theoretical hope, as the safety net is rather tenuous.

AS a concervitive, the Unger thing seems more welcoming due to its experimental and compartmentalized nature, that doesnt headge society on a single all or nothing bet.

>>14163567
Pragmatic (one could align him with Neopragmatic).

What do you think neoliberalism is exactly?

>>14163574
Haha ok kid

>>14163639
The humorous part is that retards like to say that pragmatism like Unger's is "compromise" thus bad, or "doesn't go far enough".
Whole-systems being incompatible and needing to be replaced as whole units, as well as there being a set, closed list of possible arrangements is the essence of Marxist era Classical Social Theory.

It's dumb and never works.

We should change stuff ONLY AS NEEDED, and without throwing out what works.

Conservatism is pragmatic at core: traditions are prescription: we know it works so we keep doing it.

>>14163709
Show how it's different in even the slightest way.

>>14163749
First of all, who is this we?
Where are you claiming it is standard to have competing social and economic systems?
Where is it that you can have a white supremacist ethnostate with a monarch and then a hundred miles away you have a Guild Socialist state, and so on?

I mean, if you mean the US, we have a constitution and federal government that prohibits and regulates that into such a state that weed is still federally illegal and gay marriage is federally protected in every state, it's all about what the feds choose to enforce or not enforce.

This is much bolder than that. It's a similar idea, but more profound, and it's also got a lot of possible implementations.

As I said, you're retarded and need to read more than Wikipedia.

>>14163791
>who is this we?
Stopped reading there.

>>14163483
>>14163791
>wiki
There's way too much good shit to read to waste your time on trash. Wikipedia is a great sorting device to filter out the centrist pseuds.
Go back.

>>14163800

Ok, you weak bitch

>>14163814
>Extremism and Revolution are the only way, even though it never works or lasts
>I don't ever have to do anything in real life because the revolution will always be just over the horizon

Yep, there's always tomorrow, huh, faggot?

>>14163738
I mostly agree, but I think as an outcroppnig of my conservative nature, I also understand that some aspects of galvanization are necessary since smaller pushes for change can be impotent without enough power behind them. If the state is a body and it has parasites, you have to use enough medicine to kill the parasite, but not so much that you kill the entire body. Most parasites are not immediately deadly, so the medicinal dose should be worked up gradually. The crux of the problem is, were does the body begin and the parasite end. And is even a parasite at all, or is it commensalistic or even mutualistic.

>>14162265
>light up sketchers
what

>>14163157
why not? there are some affinities between ethical positions of nietzsche (creating your own values, evading both progressive and conservative discourses) and lacanian view of the act which disrupts the social order (and does not stem from norms or ressentiment, just as in nietzsches view of active forces).

>>14163828
>>14163817
>redditor acting like a tough guy
Holy extremo yikers, cryptoglowie.

>>14162273
why not both?

>>14163849
Shoes with lights that blink with your steps. It's like goldfish platform shoes for millennials and zoomers. Big in the late 90s and came back recently.

>>14162265
I wonder what he's doing now.
Does anyone know where to get shirt like that?

>>14163373
fcuking gay

I just jumped in because I love that kind of discussions.

>>14163846
>>14163738
Complicated words don't make for elevated discussions guys. I tend to favor a more revolutionnary approach to political ideology because conservatism or progressism aren't adapted to this day and age. Rejecting homosexuality or pushing for exclusive national sovereignty (economically or militarily) aren't good moves nowadays. This is what we call post-modernity, somehow a continuation of the Cold War the more I look at it.
That doesn't contradict traditionalist views however, and if you know a bit about Zizek's way of thinking you can understand how a marxist point of view doesn't contradict a hegelian philosophy, that is a hollistic take on consciousness put side to side with a systematic revolutionnary course of events. This could impliy you'd have to be a crazy motherfucker at all times but this shouldn't be hard to play out.

>>14163875
I like this opinion because they actually compute philologically. This is what I would suggest, although both Nietzsche and Lacan are politically irrelelvant. Personally, I wish post-modernity was more often acknowleged and not looked upon as some philosophical experimentation that turned awry, as a lot still do.

>>14162265
That's where we draw the line OP: you say it yourself. Whatever name you'll call any ideological movement of the 21st century, it won't be recognised, because you can't go further than what technology allows us to communicate ; that is: consumerist loss of social signifiance, relative moral values, egomaniac political activism, revolutions of the smaller scales, etc.

Whatever you call accelerationism is recognising the almighty power of the individual in this society you consider weakened by the passage of time. This is the liberal(ism) highest ground. The power is yours to take it back from the past.
If I killed the game just let me know.