/lit/ - Literature

Yeah, I was surprised too anon. I think people know very little about what the past was actually like.

>>14160473

Glad to know we've always had incels.

>>14160465
>>14160495
>>14160473
Is this the one he wrote after that 30 y/o Italian nurse rejected his advances because he was 17?

>>14160507
I thought that was A Farewell to Arms

>>14160465
Reading this now

He didn’t mean to get friendzoned, the war neutered him. It neutered the rationalistic western society’s reproductive ability, whereas the romanticist character fucks the modern (masculine and sexually liberated) woman.

Bullfighting etc

>>14160465
Just wait til you read Werther

>>14160507
IDK What the hell that is anon.

>>14160522
>>14160507
The book is A Farewell to Arms, the nurse is British in the book and American in real life. It is not the book OP is taking about.

>>14160858
He wasn't 17 in that book though.

why do people here seem to hate Hemingway? I just read this and thought it was excellent. is it just because he's babby's first literature?

>>14160870
Because they're retards. I'm reading For Whom now and loved his other 3 novels.

>>14160868
There is no Hemingway book that has a self-insert who is 17. The only place you will find that is probably in the Nick Adams stories.

>>14160870
It is excellent, it's got good depth and meaning to it as well as interesting characters and spoke of the Era he lived in that can resonate beyond his very own generation.
>babby`s first literature
Yeah, pretty sure that's why.

>>14160870
>because he is assigned in high schools
>because his style is refined and not flashy or indulgent. To appreciate and understand him requires subtlety
>because he’s seen as a misogynist or chauvinist
>because it often takes experiencing certain parts of life before one can appreciate him

>>14160870
Because he's a giant in the field, he's masculine, and he's white. There's a concerted effort among activists to deligitimize the canon, and Hemingway is a solid, girthy pillar of that canon. And one that contemporary writers, especially men, still read and enjoy.

>>14161066
>he's masculine

I didn't like The Sun Also Rises. I didn't see why Jake was so obsessed with some slut, and didn't care about their relationship drama.

I really liked other Hemingway works, though.

>>14161076
relatively speaking...

They're called the ETERNAL FEMOID for a reason

Seen it in a few 19th cent novels too, friendzoning is probably way older than that too

I love that the only cuck bigger than the protag was a whiny little jew.
but I wouldn't call it a friend zone book without first mentioning hedonism or "giving up."
>>14161198
see: levin in anna karenina

>>14160870
Le fedora tippers and pseudointellectual shitposters

>>14160495
>>14160473
Genetic studies have proven that there have been considerably more female ancestor to the current population than male ones. Somewhere around 3 times more over all our species since breaking from homo erectus up to the neolithic. The typical protonigger was an incel. Sure it's not exactly the same as having sex but especially in times with not even primitive contraception it's quite obvious what was happening.
When the neolithic kicked in, the proportion went to 15 times more. The large majority of men had sexless lives. Only the apparition of higher civilization (largely dependent itself on guaranteeing a decent chance of reproduction to common males) changed the situation.

>>14161078
Because Jake, left impotent from the war, saw Brett as the closest thing he could get to love and a relationship. Jake was Brett's rock, the individual she could always go back to without fear of being judged or ridiculed. Brett knew of Jake's impotence yet still provided him with every aspect of a relationship except sex. However this lack of a sexual relationship was nonnegotiable to Brett, thus her seeking out multiple sexual partner and not being able to settle down. They knew deeply of each others problems and loved each other regardless of these flaws Brett just couldn't stop chasing dick.

>>14161218
Jake is the "Chad friendzone" while Cohn is the "virgin cuck". Jake understands his place and doesn't overstep boundaries yet is able to revel in his deep friendship with brett. Cohn is a little bitch who follows around Brett after she used him for his thick jewish cock hoping to win her back like a begging puppy.

>>14160465
>Hot damn I didn't expect a book as old as this and by hemingway to touch on something that seems so much a modern phenomena and a pitiful phenomena to relate to.
I had that same reaction reading Venus in Furs. Written in 1870. It's about a guy who has a femdom/cuckolding fetish. And, he convinces his girlfriend play it out. Eventually, he regrets it all halfway through watching her get railed by a Greek dude. And, she is so disgusted by how pathetic he is that she loses all respect for him. I didn't know those types of sex obsessed weirdos existed before internet porn.

>>14161880
I think the internet just gave those weirdos a platform to connect themselves.
>Be furry back then
>Likes to fuck animals
>Gets ostracized by society
>Be furry now
>Likes to fuck animals
>Find an online community of people who like to do the same
>Think society, and not you, is the problem
Well, you may call me a hypocrite for posting this on a Hawaian frog-breeding forum. But c'est la vie

>>14160465
Did you even read the book you dumb retard. This is literally the last two lines.

>"Oh, Jake," Brett said, "we could have had such a damned good time together."
>"Yes," I said. "Isn't it pretty to think so?"

>>14160870
Because he doesn't know how to write. Reading the dialogs is like reading a transcript. And the rest of the text isn't much better, It's just period after period, I don't think he was capable of writing a sentence with more than 15 words.

"Never mind."
"What's the matter? You sick?"
"Yes."
"Everybody's sick. I'm sick, too."
We came out of the Tuileries into the light and crossed the Seine and then turned up the Rue des Saints Pères.
"You oughtn't to drink pernod if you're sick."
"You neither."
"It doesn't make any difference with me. It doesn't make any difference with a woman."
"What are you called?"
"Georgette. How are you called?"
"Jacob."
"That's a Flemish name."
"American too."
"You're not Flamand?"
"No, American."
"Good, I detest Flamands."

>>14164121
You intentionally picked a sparse bit of staccato-paced dialog between two characters who barely speak the same language you tard

>>14161828
I understand the dynamic. I just didn’t think it made an interesting story. It just felt like a handful of scenes that didn’t go anywhere.

>>14164121
As he posts an example with a sentence longer than 15 words.
I get what you’re going for, but at least try to make it hard to find a counter argument next time.

I don't like Hemingway, but I hate his die hard fans. If you happen to say that you don't like him, and some of his fanboys (for lack of a better word) see that statement, they'll just call you an idiot, a pseudo intellectual, a retard, anything... It's almost like you're not allowed to say "I understand that he's sterile and that every major event from the bulls running to the balloons popping is a metaphor for it, but I dislike his style and find it dry and emotionless" because then you'll be told "well yeah, that's the lost generation", to which you simply are not allowed to say that you don't find it interesting, engaging or thought provoking on any level. I get why some people like him, I also get the type of people that get him - I have a close friend that acts as if he's from one of Hemingway's books but I just get weary after dozens and hundreds of pages of two exact copies of one another talking.
It's a comparison I dislike to make but since I'm already ranting and am bound to be called out as an idiot, but here goes:
When I read Faulkner, I feel engrossed in his world and the characters, I start reading and I stop when I have to do something, go to work, go on a date, go to sleep, whatever. The entire thing feels so dynamic and real. I love how he explores the psyche of the characters and I love his prose. When I read Hemingway, I feel as if I'm reading a play being read aloud by two strangers - which I suppose some might argue is the idea - but I don't scream for more. One short story about that sort of thing is more than enough for me. Once I go beyond page 50 in a Hemingway novel, I already wish for it to end.
And some might call Faulkner's prose too purple or difficult or whatnot, and I understand that not everyone will love it like I do, but some arguments should be in order.
We're on a fucking literature board where the following applies "Please take the time to read what others have written, and try to make thoughtful, well-written posts of your own. Bump replies are not necessary." and the best that people can give is "X is a retard because he didn't like Y".
My rambling was incoherent, but I hope at least some of it is understandable.

>>14164506
Yeah I forgot to add - this sort of thing happens the most with Hemingway and Dostoevsky on this board (but is not exclusive to those two). The ranting in the later part of my post is just a crude generalization, a product of browsing this place for far too long.

>>14160465
I think it's his best, or at least the one that should be taught--well--in schools today. The struggle of his generation to find meaning is almost identical to the struggle of the current generations, with the only separating factor being that his generation was lost because of war, and the generations today are lost because of overstimulation.

>So was this basically "friendzone" the book?
that's not Sorrows of Young Werther

>>14163097
Yet Brett still chooses to fuck around and pursue other men rather than staying with jake out of pure love. Brett’s main character flaw is that she refuses to be held down by one man, as it makes her feel vulnerable.

That last line where Brett says “we COULD HAVE HAD a damned good time together” isn’t her admitting to wanting to be with jake but humoring the thought that perhaps if he wasn’t impotent they could be more. However the reality is that jake IS impotent and that Brett seems him as not being a romantic interest.

Dumb fuck

>>14164121
He deliberately structured dialogue to reinforce the bleak and distant atmosphere playing in the background the entire book. The book is about the effects of WW1 on those that were directly involved and how it irreparably changed how these individuals interact with life. The lost generation which the book is dedicated to loses their moral compass and all the conventions of romanticism that characterized the period before the world (hence the character Cohn). Take a better look at the passage about the matador that came out of retirement, it’s basically Hemingway spelling out the issues with the lost generation

Hemingway isn't bad but he is in no way the best american writer like how many try to paint him
I see him as I see camus, a well above average writer overrated because of his modernity
He's good for teaching children though