/lit/ - Literature

>>14148486
The Bible

silent observation of the world around you

Falling down the stairs with your head first

>>14148610

https://www.amazon.com/Bread-Life-FATHER-LEONARD-FEENEY/dp/B0028F3F0C

>>14148503
the Bible just made me realize Judaism makes more sense

>>14148486
The Orthodox Church by Kallistos Ware

Father,
Your kingdom has come. Your will be done on earth, as it is in heav'n.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive them that trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, The power, and the glory, For ever and ever.
Amen.

>>14148932
Pater noster, qui in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra.
Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte debita nostra, sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.
Amen.

>>14148486
Reading the Bible in earnest set me on the path to faith

The Bible is very simple. Don't be deceived by its simplicity. In its simplicity it has the wisdom of the ages. It is very poetic; I have never come across anything more poetic than the Bible. One can simply go on relishing it, one can go on repeating the words of Jesus. They come from the heart and they go to the heart. But don't go through a mediator. Those mediators are mediocres, they destroy the whole thing. I have looked through many commentaries on the Bible, but I have never come across a single intelligent commentary. They all destroy. I have never seen any single commentary from any theologian who has added anything to the Bible, who has in any way made its glory more manifest. They dim it. And that is bound to be so. Only a man of the quality of Jesus can reveal the truth of it, only a man of the quality of Jesus can enhance its beauty. People who live in the dark valleys and people who live on the sunny peaks of the Himalayas don't understand each other's language. When the man from the peak speaks and the man from the valley interprets, everything goes wrong.

Yes, it is right; your twenty years may have been wasted. But it will be a total misunderstanding if you think that Jesus is not for you. Jesus is for all, that is not the question. Go direct: become more meditative, become more prayerful, and go direct. And forget all that has been told to you about the Bible; the Bible is enough.

In a sense if you want to understand the Upanishads, it may be difficult to understand them directly because they are very refined. The people who were talking in the Upanishads were great philosophers; they need commentaries. But Jesus is plain, his truth is plain. He is a very ordinary villager; no commentary is needed. He is his own light. And if you cannot understand Jesus, who will you be able to understand? Throw all the foolish commentaries away. Go direct. Jesus is so simple you can have a direct contact.

>>14148706
Have you read The New Testament?

>>14148706
uhhh... wat?

Did you read the old testament or the new? Cause the old testament should make you realize old school Judiasm had some weird ass animal sacrifice blood rituals and a bunch of incest.

>>14148486
Actually, read Jung's works and THEN the Bible. I guarantee this will work so be careful.

>>14149001
Really? How did you cope with all the horrible shit in it? It caused me a lot of cognitive dissonance when I was a believer.

>>14148486
Watch this video till the end and read the book of John in KJV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEBz25lGdY&t=

>>14148486

>>14150246
That is so hot.

God's grace makes you Christian.

>>14148486
Pensées

>>14150246
I came.

I wanted to be Christian, but doing some amateur research the past few days lead me to believe that YHWH (along with Zeus) was just a mythologized ancient Mesopotamian leader, which would seem to negate any validity behind Christianity. Feels bad man. I still feel spiritual but now I don't know what to believe.

Nihilism by Fr Seraphim Rose. It's only 60 pages.

Aside from that, a really good biography is The Gurus, The Elder, and the Young Man which is the story of an orthodox monk who travels through India trying to discover if yoga is a path to God. Very fascinating and weaves philosophy beautifully into the story.

>>14150366
Christianity can't be proven and requires faith. Secondly, you're wrong about YHWH, read this book.

>>14148486
Mere Christianity

>>14150366
Wow good thing your days of amateur research lead you to a better conclusion than the collective efforts of 2000 years of Catholic and Orthodox scholars, and even non-christian anthropologists of religion. Good thing we have clear thinkers like you walking around.

I don't want to discourage you on your search or seem too snarky, only to call attention to the arrogance and short-sightedness of your position right now. If you feel spiritual than approach this spiritually and stop letting yourself be swayed by modernist schizoposting. Hell, read some Eliade and you will get some good perspective on the situation without any inherent bias towards Christianity or Judaism. Good luck.

>>14150471
I appreciate the book recommendation. I know Christianity can't be proven, and I felt like my faith was starting to develop, but I'm very fickle and indecisive. I do admit, my research into euhemerism was very shallow.

>>14150485
You're right. I need to start reading proper books on these subjects written by verifiable authors, not just read vague summaries on Wikipedia and then make up my mind.

>>14148486

>>14150495
Is there anything in particular you are curious about or struggling with?

>>14150522
Well, I'm always intrigued by history and language, which gives me strife when researching Christianity due to all the variations in the Biblical canon in regards to translations, and books that were written around the same era but not included (Gospels of Thomas and Judas for example). As I said above, I'm a very indecisive person, so I feel like I can never make a decision without knowing all of the facts first, and even then I rarely can come to a solid conclusion. I have no clue why I'm like this.

>>14150533
If you want to read about the Gnostic Gospels you should go to the book that every author, from abhorrent liberal critics to reactionary revanchists cite.

Dont read her later works tho, her husband and child died in the same year and she is a broken wreck.

>>14150539
Also if you want Theist criticism with acknowledgement of the divine, Luke Timothy Johnson, and if you just want another broken man, pic related.

Although if your goal is to be a confessional christian id probably just read the works of St. Augustine and St. John of the Cross

>>14150539
It's not necessarily that I want to read them (though I do find them interesting), I guess my main struggle really is synchronizing all the differences between the denominations and my own personal beliefs. I mean shit, for a while I was very interested in Catholicism, only to come across a list of Catholic "traditions" that were put into effect long after Peter was around, some of which seem to directly contradict the actual gospels.

>>14150552
thats the path of a BA in religious studies from a state college, which I would recommend against.

>>14150533
My advice to you will probably make Protestants very angry but that should tell you its the right move: Don't start with the Bible itself. The Bible is a strange book, and while the textual analysis and history is fascinating, it is unlikely to make a satisfactory impression on you right now if you're looking for reasoned argumentation (which we'll get to in a moment). For Biblical history, Bart Ehrman has some great books on how to approach the New Testament as a text, and covers the various linguistic and cultural elements that provide the background for the books that made the cut (and many that did not). As a side note, he is a non-Christian so his books are relatively free of evangelizing, although not entirely free of bias, which is unavoidable.

In your case, I would start elsewhere if you're looking for faith. Read Plotinus and Augustine, Chesterton and St. Jerome, the man who translated the Bible and his journey with the text and with his own faith. Understand why people would be inclined to take an interest in this in the first place and what it means to struggle with something of this magnitude.

The thing about "proofs" or facts in religious matters, barring outright fabrications or forgeries, is that they are rarely enough. I ask you genuinely, what would constitute proof for you? Aquinas lays out his arguments according to accepted Aristotelian logic, and others have followed suit, but the question is, how do you jump the gap from "this makes logical sense" to "I am willing to stake my life on this." One doesn't always follow from the other. See Kierkegaard's chapter from Philosophical Fragments "The Disciple at Second-Hand" for more on this. He argues convincingly that the original 12 had no real advantage for their faith compared to those of us who are not contemporary with Jesus. Aquinas and Kierkegaard represent two trends in theology, one which proposes God can be reached through clear logical progression, and the other, fideism, which claims that faith is inherently opposed to logic. If you want logic, make sure that you're clear and honest with yourself about what it would mean to get the proof you ask for. If this is a problem, try the other side first.

Understand the spiritual mindset before looking at Sacred Texts of any kind, the Bible included.

>>14150615
Not the guy you're replying to, but I still thoroughly enjoyed this post. Thanks.

>>14150366
I dont know what research you did that doesnt see a jarring point of departure from the concept of el shaddai at the burning bush

>>14150634
Happy to hear it, you're very welcome.

>>14148486
Orthodoxy and Everlasting Man.

>>14149011

Most based post I've ever read on this godloved board. I love you anon.

>>14148486

No book will make you Christian. In fact there is literally nothing in this world that can make you Christian. To be a Christian you need to be spiritually reborn. God alone can do this. Being a Christian requires a change in your ontology.

Reading the bible made me realize how wrong Jews are and how absolutely right Islam is.
The Christian west is disgusting an degenerate and full of Jews

>>14149011
I find it to be a strong proof of Jesus being the logos made flesh like John says when you look at the universality of the message. Ive been reading through girard lately, and the uniqueness of Matthew, John, and James in the face of sacrificial religion is jarring.

>>14151065
God does x is always a trash argument, to come to the Kingdom of God requires free will. To sin requires free will. To choose the kingdom requires free will. There is nothing more mud hut boomer than having some 50 year old woman praise god for getting her home in a rain storm.

>>14148641
Hmm. Maybe all those people that think that technology is detaching us from the divine nature of the "natural" world has a point afterall?

>>14149011
Anon, what's your favorite book of the bible?

>>14151503
>To sin requires free will
Wrong. You can only sin if you’re a slave. Who would freely do that which is bad for him? Where is the freedom? Why is it that no man has used his freedom to be perfect? Surely there should be more perfect people on the planet if we were free?

>>14151565
This is one of those things were you think you sound smart typing it, but you really come across as an absolute moron.

>>14151569
not an argument. Why aren’t you perfect, anon?

>>14150485
The 2000 years of Catholic and Orthodox scholars proving the existence of the Biblical canon isn't through and through a reason why the Bible is canon.
Of course people's who entire structural and societal power is based on the legitimacy of said canon would find ways to support the canon.
Christianity no longer has an unbelievable amount of power in most secular societies. Now we're finding more and more flaws with Christian history. Holes in the story. And connections towards other religions of the time. Now, more than ever, are people leaving Christianity behind. Funny how once you remove the power structure behind such a movement it completely collapses.
This is why I cannot accept Christian theology. No matter how much I want to.

>>14151582
In my perception, secular society is collapsing because it abandoned Christianity.

>>14151582
>The 2000 years of Catholic and Orthodox scholars proving the existence of the Biblical canon isn't through and through a reason why the Bible is canon.
Nowhere did I claim it was, but it does make it unlikely that something as obvious as the god of the Bible being an ancient leader would have slipped through the cracks after all this time. I was responding to that specific historical claim.

>Of course people's who entire structural and societal power is based on the legitimacy of said canon would find ways to support the canon.
I think you need to look up the first few hundred years of Church history again.

>Christianity no longer has an unbelievable amount of power in most secular societies.
Completely irrelevant

>Now we're finding more and more flaws with Christian history. Holes in the story.
Out of curiosity, please name a few?

>And connections towards other religions of the time.
So? I neither deny this nor see it as a bad thing. This has been addressed time and time again by theologians both ancient and modern.

>Funny how once you remove the power structure behind such a movement it completely collapses.
You're looking at this like Durkheim or a similarly motivated sociologist rather than as someone interested in religious truth, and I'm not even sure what your claim is. You're saying that people are leaving it, which means that the power structure is collapsing. Or is it the power structure is collapsing because people are leaving it? Both of these are mostly tautological statements, and again, irrelevant to religious truth. Where do we start the decline from? And why are you putting your own spin on a statistical situation and claiming it as fact? Yes, people are leaving, but you could just as easily say that people are leaving because the Church has modernized too much and made itself irrelevant, and that a return to Orthodoxy would change the tides. That holds about as much water as what you're saying, but given the facts as given, would be equally speculative.

>>14151569
>>14151572
Well? Why so slow? Why aren’t you perfect if you are free? Is it because you don’t want to be perfect? You DO want to be perfect, right? But if you want to be perfect, and you have free will, then why are you so far from perfect? If there were a 100 dollar bill in front of me, and I were free to take it, then how could I fail? I would take it every time. So why do you fail at being perfect?

>>14151503

>Le free will meme

Truly the greatest delusion ever to take root in the human mind.

>I'm so free!
>But I hate my life because it never goes the way I want!

>>14151569
kek

>>14151823
you’re right, but go back

>>14151797
Not him, but Girard explains it well with mimetic theory. Perfection is outlined in the Gospel. Jesus elaborates on it very clearly in the Sermon on the Mount, and Deuteronomy and Leviticus make a rigid legal system in order to keep the sheep moving in the right direction. But there are stumbling blocks, noted in the gospels as Skandalon. These trip-ups are bestial desire for pleasure, especially the pleasures of others, and in this humanity stumbles on the path. They choose pleasure. They choose lust, and passion, and gluttony, because it is so near. These choices create conflict, and may only be resolved in violence. What Christ calls us to do as a community is to CHOOSE the kingdom and reject the cycle of violence.

Indeed, the path to the kingdom must lie in freewill, as it is more in our nature to sacrifice for momentary peace rather than give it freely to our fellow man.

>>14151823
Sam Harris is wrong and so are you

>>14151503

> to come to the Kingdom of God requires free will.

Can you just walk into the White House without the presidents permission? Can you just stroll casually into the king's palace without his say so? If these limitations exist for weak, material, earthly rulers, how much more for the ruler of the entire cosmos? Do.you really think the kingdom of GOD is open to YOU a human at your mere say so?! DELUSION

>>14151845
you sound like a protestant.

>>14151823
Free will is obviously real

>>14151845
If there is no free will, than there must be universal salvation, or an inherently unjust god who sets us up either to fail or to test the elect. In that case we should just do what we want to do, that which will give us the greatest momentary pleasure, since its all outlined prior anyways. Pic related, its a good book that describes someone like you.

>>14151845
>the kingdom of god is a castle in the sky with big doors

OK pseudo-pagan. The kingdom of god is within all men. it is the end of the enemy, and the elevation of mankind into something holy and worthy of god. We must choose though, Either Or (t. Kierkegaard)

>>14151842

You're talking about the kingdom as Girard talks about it, not as Jesus talked about it.

>What Christ calls us to do as a community is to CHOOSE the kingdom

This is contrary to all biblical discourse about the kingdom. Please read more of the biblical sources before talking about biblical concepts. Then you will be able to use the language more appropriately.

>>14148641
the government probably already does shit like this with like cell towers or whatever

>>14151877

>What is a metaphor?

>>14151870

>an inherently unjust god who sets us up either to fail or to test the elect.

Unjust according to which standard of justice?

If I were a magician, and had the power to turn stones into diamonds, would I be unjust if from a handful of pebbles I only chose a couple to be diamonds? Would it be unjust to leave a stone to be a stone?

>>14151849

I am but I protest even the protestants, I am a protestestetant.

>>14151851

How is it obviously true?

>>14148641
Scientists prove r*ddit is literally retarded; more at 6

>>14151940
>How is it obviously true?
If everything in pic related is true (hint: they're all true), that means free will exists

late 80's Razzle magazines

>>14151958

Oh it's you again. I can't remember where our conversation left off last time but I can't be arsed to rehash it all again. Not all our actions are caused by our intentions AND not all our intentions are our choice.

>>14151842
That didn’t answer any of those questions.

>>14148503
It didn't work

>>14152166
Try Kierk

>>14152166

Sorry fren, you're not elect.

t. Calvin

>>14148610
amazing book, would recommend it and its sequel.

>>14151694
Nah. Christian society had flaws led to secular society which will lead to some sorta shit nigger-spic society which will lead to some other sort of society. This isnt fully any one things faults but they various institutions, beliefs and behaviors we had in the past had flaws which have led to our current institutions, beliefs and behaviors which also have flaws which lead to a future society with flaws of its own. Arguably some "ages" are worse and some are worse but ultimately its the faults of the past which have led to the woes of the present which lead to the solutions of the future which will inherently have faults of their own.

>>14148486
Books that will get me into Muscular Christianity?

>>14152393
If everyone tried to be like Jesus, the world would be great

>>14152407
To some, yes.

>>14152407
That's too bad huh

Nihilism - Fr. Seraphim Rose

>>14149011
Please nobody listen to this retard. The Bible is a product of tradition so if you think there has been no intelligent commentary on it then I have some news for you.

>>14150366
>I don't want
Mine is the opposite issue, i have no spirituality and never have. I have tried reading the bible (and other holy books). I have tried going to churches of nearly every denomination and have tried prayer and meditation but i have yet to feel anything spiritual. its somewhat depressing.

>>14148486
Honestly searching for truth and a fulfilling life experience will make you a christian

>>14149011
Osho is a fucking hack that documentary was bonkers tho, respect

>>14148486
Reading about evolution made me understand why Christianity (as well as other successful religions like Islam) is evolutionarily designed (religion is hereditary, therefore its characteristics are subjected to evolutionary pressures) and evolutionarily advantageous (it must provide both individual and collective advantages to its followers), and therefore you're retarded if you decide to reject all those advantageous rules and throw yourself into the unknown of not living like your ancestors did.

So something like The 10,000 Year Explosion.

>>14149011
Pr*testant detected. If you read the Bible on its own you might be confused as to what actually applies or not.

>>14152407
Very true. But the manner by which Christianity was promoted, including by Christ himself, was not the best manner by which such behavior could be cultivated within individuals. Many Christians can scarcely even display basic kindness towards their neighbour if they discover that neighbour to hold a different belief-system to them, such as being a modern-day atheist for example. Buddhism provides a better example of how to raise the level of virtue within individuals - by giving them practises which directly cultivate more peaceful and compassionate states of mind.

>>14148486
Read the Qu'ran, unironically. If it doesn't change your life you don't want to change.

>>14148706
You didn't finish it, did you? Be honest

>>14150484
This. I would recommend it over anything else in this thread. Chesterton's "Orthodoxy" is good too but it's not really entry level in the same way "Mere Christianity" is. C.S. Lewis' essay "The Abolition of Man" is also very good.

>>14154127
>Reading the Qu'ran will make you Christian
kek

>>14149146
>>14149186
>>14154155
It is a huge stretch to say Jesus fulfilled any of the messianic prophecies, if not downright mental gymnastics for most of them.
The New Testament also does not provide any basis for Christian doctrine. The trinity is never mentioned or expounded anywhere; if it were so obvious to Jesus' teaching you think it would be talked about. It additionally is so mind-numbing in its audacity, stupidity, and blasphemy against the omnipotence and indivisibility of a one true God I am surprised no one mentions this more often. Jesus himself talks about himself being under the father, being sent from the father, being subservient to the Father, teaches that we should pray only to one God the Father, and so on. It seems like Christians just forgot the number one commandment. The Holy Ghost as God seems lazily written out, it's obviously another name for the divine wisdom that is bestowed by God, which hey is Judaism's view of it. Paul's 'revelation' is unconvincing and in some places go against what Jesus himself seems to have taught.
I think a lot of good is there in the teachings of Jesus, but he at best was a prophet, not a God.

>>14154896
t. has no clue about christianity

>>14154896
So you sincerely believe, because you can't imagine that one God can share multiple forms to fulfill multiple purposes, that Judaism's view of a racially supremacist religion based around Torah blood rituals/animal sacrifices, Talmudic hatred and animocity towards fellow man, and Kabbalah occult mysticism is a superior ontological and moral argument?

>>14150366
Wikipedia is full of shit.

Let me break down for you why you're so confused. The God who revealed himself to Moses (I AM etc) is more or less the Platonic Form of the Good. That's not quite correct, but it's a lot closer than "desert sky father".

As you've probably noticed from your "research", the locals already had their own gods like Desert Zeus (El, aka "God"). If you read the Old Testament carefully, you will see that one of the problems the Hebrews had was being unable to tell the God of Moses -- the true, "Abrahamic" God -- apart from Jewpiter. The Old Testament authors do not like to describe the details of "idolatry", but armed with the knowledge you've obtained you can easily infer this via such things as the difference between the "Golden Bull" (an image of a horned deity) and Micah's idol (probably an "image" of El/YHWH). This confusion is something that both Christianity and Islam resolve in radically different ways. Islam by emphasizing the Oneness of God and chimping out about "shirk", Christianity by positing Christ as the Incarnation of God (the Catholics and Orthodox go even further than this with the veneration of saints, including Mary especially for the former).

Basically all you've discovered is that the ancient Jews had poor theology. I'd encourage you to read Plato and Aquinas if you'd like to get a better conception of what God is beyond the faulty conceptions of Bronze Age Jews (Aristotle is boring and you don't need to read him if you read Aquinas, you can always go back if you're really curious).

>>14154896
Genesis 1:2, holy spirit is confirmed
Genesis 11:7 as well says let US go down
their are plenty of places where he talks to beings who obviously aren't himself

>>14152750

>evolutionary advantageous
>all the founding members of Christianity were executed for their beliefs, most probably childless

>>14154930
>let US go down
Not the guy you're arguing with, but couldn't he simply be speaking aloud and using the royal we?

>>14154959
And yet, Christianity remains as one of the largest faiths on the planet. I'd say it's successful from an evolutionary point of view.

>>14154920
Please tell me where in your book God says he is really three Gods, particularly the one who spends some time saying the Father is greater than all (John 10:29), is one in number (John 17:3), commands us to pray only to the father (Matt 6:9, John 4:23, 16:23), and says he is not God (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19).
Now commence the gymnastics
>waaaah jews baaaaad
nice 'argument', loser. I am not Jewish, I merely said it makes more sense.
>>14154930
Are you refering to "the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters"? How do you think this does not mean the wisdom of God was there in newly formed creation? If the Holy Spirit were an equal God, would he not do more to aid creation rather than cease to be mentioned?
>Genesis 11:7
This is an authoritative Us. What happens with the "Gods" actually descended?
"Then the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men were building." Hmm where are the other two?

>>14154964
>Please tell me where in your book God says he is really three Gods

I never said he is three Gods. I said one God, three forms. I can't force brainlets at gunpoint to understand a basic concept they refuse to even try to understand, otherwise I'd try.

>nice 'argument', loser. I am not Jewish, I merely said it makes more sense.

I never said you were Jewish, I legit asked you if you really thought it made for a superior argument. Holy shit dude, at least try to read and stop imagining things I didn't say. Only one of us is putting words in the other's mouth.

>>14154963

Any yet none of it's precepts, at face value, should confer any evolutionary advantage. Almost as if there's something more going on. . .

>>14154989
>I said one God, three forms
>it's a basic concept bro
No, it's not. It's doublethink, and it's either 'super easy' or 'a great mystery bro, better contemplate (read: ignore) it!" whenever anyone questions it, alternately on the audience. Not to mention the doctrine of the trinity developed long after Jesus was gone.
If it was such an important, easy, and basic doctrine why is it explained absolutely nowhere by Jesus or his associates in the books? It's only 'justifications' are tenuous, fragmentary, and harder to find than Waldo.

>>14155002
I'm interested in your thoughts on why Islam is successful then. I feel like the obvious answer is Islam itself having different tenets of faith, or at the very least practice of followers, that would grant it an advantage.

>>14155023

Good question tbf. I'll think about it.

>>14148486
>>14154855
>>14154127

Islam is the only legitimate form of Christianity, and Sufism is the only legitimate form of Islam. If you cant see the connection between Sufi islam and the religion of Jesus there is no hope.

Paulinist "Christianity" was canonised over 300 years after Jesus had "died" and the (((Orthodox))) had to kill everyone who thought differently from what they did, thats the only reason that Trinitarian/Nicean Christianity is the most predominant form today

>>14155052
important post here

>>14155052
t. has no clue about christianity

>>14155111
t. Only knows what the church wants him to know

>>14155111
t. impotent rage

>>14155052
Lmao

>>14155010
I legitimately don't understand why it's so hard for you to grasp. I get the feeling that you're getting hung up on semantics. You're thinking of God as a being that can't have three forms because you're, I don't even know, trying to apply Newton's Laws to the father of all creation? Think of it like water, right? The same water can be in three distinct forms.

But we aren't talking about something limited to the confines of the physical universe. God creating the universe shows that he is separate from it, meaning not confined by any laws of physics that exist here, in the physical universe. Meaning not subordinate to time or space or anything like that. The Holy Ghost, the ethereal THING (however you'd like to imagine it) that guides us, is omnipresent yet formless. Jesus is the physical form of God (almost think of it like God being 'plugged into the Matrix' temporarily to guide us and essentially be like, "Hey assholes, you're doing it wrong and being deceived en masse, the synagogue of satan most of all")

All in all though, if you want to think of the trinity as front and center, all important, go for it. If not, that's fine too. Personally, I just don't see how either way would inhibit someone from following the teachings of Christ, unless you were super autistic and unable to move past it. So, uh, contemplate it more or move past it. I wish for you the best either way.

>>14155622
This.
There is only one reference to the trinity as 3 in 1 in the entire KJV new testament which is John1 5:7-8.


But these verses were added in later, because they dont exist in the earlier versions of John 1 (see the same verses in the NIV, and the footnotes on them).

Its clear that the church was adding verses into the latin vulgate bible to make their interpretation seem like the legitimate one.


>inb4 "b-b-but muhhh freemason illuminati changed the NIV, only KJV is the word of god"

King James was a freemason, and so was the person he appointed to edit the bible

>>14155622
>1 = 3 cause it's god man, just don't think
thanks
you also conveniently didn't touch the point of the trinity being nowhere, and in fact contradicted, in the scriptures

not this >>14155622


this>>14155655

>>14155656
Shit, man. Well I guess you've got it all figured out then. I guess you're right and the vast majority of Christians are wrong about their own religion. Make sure to proselytize your new found truths so the world can learn from you and be led into a golden era.

>>14148486
any big and heavy one, if you hit your head with it enough times

>>14151945
woosh

>>14156870

>>14156891
>attractive young men laugh at creationists
>fedora memes roll off them like water off trenchcoat
I see nothing wrong here.

>>14148503
/thread

>>14148731
based rec

>>14150452
too bad he won't ever be made a Saint.

>>14157964
>Orthocuck
>Fascist
>Evolution denier
Never. Fuck him.