/lit/ - Literature

>you are not a real socialist unless you literally kill yourself

>>14101620
You're not a socialist if you make 0 effort to make it a reality beyond shitposting on /lit/ and crying about capitalism at your university commie meetup.

"waiting" for the revolution is why your childish ideology never goes anywhere, communism is the philosophy of whiny losers waiting to be rescued so they can piggyback on the power and be abusive bullies.

>>14101636
never goes anywhere?

>>14101620
You could start a commie farm with your friends and produce food according to commie principles, oh wait lol you don't have frens.

>>14101650
EVERY attempt at communism imploded on itself long before outsiders put you down like dogs. You are not the russians, you're an oversocialised, underweight, latte sipping teenager who spends more time watching netflix than doing anything with your life.

If a communist revolution happened, you'd be shot as one of the privileged oppressors.

>>14101636
>d-d-d-don't be a bully

what the fuck is this supposed to mean? Materialist dialectic is a theory that revolution emerges from material conditions. It is not waiting for rescue, is it waiting for when it is actually to our advantage to do so. Why would someone who still has opportunity for a comfortable middle class life commit to revolution? How does that benefit him? All he is saying by saying Marx is correct, is that when these opportunities evaporate, and they will, he will also take up arms.

Whenever you speak to a liberal worker, and ask them, "why don't you hate this system?" They always reply with "standards of living" by which they mean nice homes, nice food, medicine, etc. These things are slowly disappearing. Drug prices are increasing, food is becoming more expensive and/or disgusting, homes are becoming smaller, and more unaffordable.

>>14101679
>>14101654
>>14101650
>>14101636
>>14101620
This is the 15000th time we've had this discussion please for the love of God shut up

>>14101704

>>14101650
Wiping pizza grease off your double-chin while you shitpost on a taiwanese bicycle repair forum does not even remotely come close to what lenin did

even retards like fidel castro at least had the balls to put his words into action

your average shitposting "commie" that you meet on the interwebs is probably some fat nasty looking fuck with a receding hairline who spends his time decrying the patriarchy and the "system" in hopes that some equally nasty feminazi will open her shriveled up sandy cunt to him

>>14101679
nope, im a worker, my net-worth is a tiny amount of savings, and most of my money goes to rent or consumer products. Real bourgeoisie oppressor right there eh! Maybe you'd be killed in a communist revolution because you're some upper class faggot, but not me, and to that I say, not my fucking problem.

>EVERY attempt at communism imploded on itself
Nope, Cuba is doing fine, loser. Capitalism also implodes on itself too by the way, it constantly goes through crises, and will continue to get worse.

Capitalist apologists are always so ahstorical and stuck in their little period of time. It's a few hundreds years old. Humanity's civilized history is thousands, and could stretch for hundreds of thousands or more. This is a blip. Appealing to Capitalism as the system that SHOULD and WILL be permanent because of a couple hundreds of history, with no actual philosophical basis as to why it is better or even sustainable, is brainlet tier.

>>14101636
i would say posting in favor of communism online is just that little bit more effective in making communism than posting against it like you are would be in comparison but whatever

>>14101732
you faggots are drowning in so much ressentiment, it is pathetic. You know that you and I are in the same situation? All you are saying is that you are better than me because you accept it. You are the slave who has triumphed, as slave. You are pathetic in every sense.

>>14101636
>"waiting" for the revolution
That's not communism.

>>14101744
You're a pathetic coward and you know it

>>14101755
It's funny how everyone can agree what capatalism is, everyone can agree what anarchy is, everyone can agree what fuedalism is.

But NO ONE seems to agree with ANYONE on what communism is...

>>14101764
>It's funny how everyone can agree what capatalism is
?

>>14101747
no, im better than you because i recognize that despite all its flaws, capitalism has done much more good than communism has

im also better than you because i recognize that im just a shitposter on a website that idolizes a green frog.

you, on the other hand, go around parading on your high stuffed horse when in reality you dont have the balls to do anything to push forward the communist agenda

if some commie party came by your house, asking you to head to their HQ and plot the communist revolution with their arsenal of weapons and pamphlets, you would probably

>uhh.. uhh. n-no thanks bro, i just like to wear che guevera shirts for fun

>>14101772
"?" is not a sentence.

"?" doesn't mean anything by itself. Fucking speak like an adult, get off your fucking phone, and formulate a fucking response.

>>14101764
>It's funny how everyone can agree what capatalism is, everyone can agree what anarchy is, everyone can agree what fuedalism is.
Assuming that they indeed can (doubt.jpg), then I'm sure the same group of people would also agree what communism were. It's just that they would've been wrong. About all four of course.

>>14101775
>capitalism has done much more good than communism has
The same was the case with feudalism before the appearance of capitalism. Also, unqualified "good" is a spook.

>>14101775
what are you? trying to give me a pep-talk into steeling my nerves into being prepared to join an army? Well I have to say that it did work. When the communist revolutionaries call for me, I will join, and I will brave. Thank you anon. You will be a hero of revolution.

>>14101790
Same is the case with communism which appeared after capitalism

how about "material living standard" as "good"
how about, less people starving as "good"
how about, less people in abject poverty as "good"
how about being able to talk to a dumb cunt on moot's myspace as a "good"

i would have much less disdain for you if you werent just like the rest of the 99% dumb commie fucks who think its edgy and cool to be a commie in this day and age.

either wait for the commie revolution, and acknowledge youre just a useless sad sap that doesnt have the conviction to actually do anything

or actually do something, and organize your own little commie party in your neighborhood, with the prospects of bringing about the proletariat revolution

this also applies to this apathetic fat slob
>>14101796

>>14101796
>When the communist revolutionaries call for me
They never will, because they're all like you, all talk and no bite. They're all sitting in their underwear crying on twitter about transphobia. There will never be a commie revolution.

>>14101783
Stay buttmad computer poster
Nice autistic sperg thread BTW

>>14101822
>Stay buttmad computer poster
You say that like it's an insult.

Phone peasants seriously think they're superior? Jesus wept...

>>14101758
Yeah i bet you are risking your life and safety everyday for your ideas.

>>14101811
>Same is the case with communism which appeared after capitalism
We're still in capitalism.
>how about "material living standard" as "good"
Sure.
>how about, less people starving as "good"
There's much more people starving.
>how about, less people in abject poverty as "good"
Ditto.
>how about being able to talk to a dumb cunt on moot's myspace as a "good"
Debatable.

>i would have much less disdain for you if you werent just like the rest of the 99% dumb commie fucks who think its edgy and cool to be a commie in this day and age.
I don't think it's particularly edgy, it can be cool in some ways but not in others.

>or actually do something
I am :)

I want to rape caludia bROwn and murder her

>>14101896
That's not very nice. Have you ever read Marx by any chance?

>>14101889
I'm not a commie, I have no interest in revolutions.

Keep making excuses though, fucking poser.

>>14101890
there's a lot fewer people starving than the past
even those qualifying for poverty by western standards enjoy a meal far surpassing that of your average peasant

there are much fewer people in abject poverty if measured from a material goods sense
cars, phones, even picking up thrown out shirts as opposed to wearing the same rags youve had since god knows when

>how about being able to talk to a dumb cunt on moot's myspace as a "good"
>Ditto
ill give you that one

>or actually do something
>I am :)

i guess in that sense me posting a meme qualifies me as "doing something" to further religion, foster better communities, and progress the bond of brotherhood

>>14101906
So you hold absolutely no opinion that would require at least a little bit of effort to be accomplished? Like trying to reduce global poverty or end undernourishment? You either have to be a smug complaisant asshole or to give every single thing you have to a charity? Making monthly donations and participating in community efforts is just being a "poser"?
You just seem to use logical extremes for the sake of rhetoric.

>>14101943
we can all agree that there is a line between "smug asshole" and "giving everything to charity" that would qualify as "doing something"

but we can also agree that:
>shitposting and wearing a hammer and sickle t-shirt while uttering "yeah man, down with the system, totes dudes" to an echo chamber
does not qualify

what the fuck do i know, but i would say 10% of your annual income given to charity would be an acceptable number

>>14101943
>Like trying to reduce global poverty or end undernourishment?
What are you, gay?
>So you hold absolutely no opinion that would require at least a little bit of effort to be accomplished?
No, I do. I just don't hold delusional beliefs about changing the world and then sit on my ass shitposting for years.
>ou either have to be a smug complaisant asshole or to give every single thing you have to a charity?
No, you have to practice what you preach. Otherwise you're a posing cowardly faggot worthy of nothing but derision.
>Making monthly donations and participating in community efforts is just being a "poser"?
Yes, it is. And the fact you don't understand this is why you'll never do anything with your life.

>>14101933
>there's a lot fewer people starving than the past
I don't think that's true.

>even those qualifying for poverty by western standards enjoy a meal far surpassing that of your average peasant
Sure, but poverty is separate from starvation. The latter is close to purely biological, while the latter close to purely social. Absolute comparisons like these don't make sense when it comes to poverty. They do with starvation.

>there are much fewer people in abject poverty if measured from a material goods sense cars, phones
I'm not sure that abject poverty would have to do with cars and phones, but there might still be fewer. I'm not sure.

>i guess in that sense me posting a meme qualifies me as "doing something" to further religion, foster better communities, and progress the bond of brotherhood
I didn't have my posting on this shithole in mind when I said I'm doing something, if that's what you're implying. This is a pure waste of time.

>>14101992
The former is close to purely biological, while the latter close to purely social.*

>>14101992

>there are much fewer people in abject poverty if measured from a material goods sense cars, phones
>I'm not sure that abject poverty would have to do with cars and phones, but there might still be fewer. I'm not sure.

the fuck are cards and phones but material goods? the fuck is poverty if it isn't defined by material goods?

no one is referring to spiritual poverty when they say poverty

>i guess in that sense me posting a meme qualifies me as "doing something" to further religion, foster better communities, and progress the bond of brotherhood
>I didn't have my posting on this shithole in mind when I said I'm doing something, if that's what you're implying. This is a pure waste of time
okay big boi, u win
give us all cryptic hints of when your communist machinations actual result in something, so we will all know to have not doubted your conviction and fortitude

in the mean time, i will be nutting to comrade trotsky (let's be honest, trostky is the cuter waifu one), assisted by stalin's stump left hand

>>14101962
Everybody starts somewhere, teenagers always tend to be "posers" but maybe it will evolve to activism with time or they will just drop it.
But this 10% of annual income seems very arbitrary. 9% is doing nothing then? And sensitization/ awareness raising campaigns are "doing nothing" and "posing"?

>>14101972
>What are you, gay?
Did you base your masculine identity on hating poor people or something? Acts of empathy and solidarity hurt your strong man act?
>And the fact you don't understand this is why you'll never do anything with your life.
So what are you doing with your life beyond just having a normal life? Is what you are advocating is just setting yourself modest realizable goals and devote yourself to them fully? Is shitposintg on /lit/ right now part of your masterplan to achieve something in life?

>>14101614
no me i will be a card carrying party member i would never be working in the fields

>>14102030
>And sensitization/ awareness raising campaigns are "doing nothing" and "posing"?
Yes.

"Raising awareness" translates to "I want attention and praise for saying the right things but I don't actually care enough to do anything productive". There's nothing out there that needs "raising awareness" to be more important than actually doing things. If even 1% of you poser faggots "raising awareness" did something productive, you'd actually have a real movement going.

>>14102030
>Did you base your masculine identity on hating poor people or something? Acts of empathy and solidarity hurt your strong man act?
No I'm just not a delusional child who thinks he can influence vague, thousand year old problems like poverty or undernourishment in any tangible way. I'd rather influence my own life and the handful of people around me than delude myself into thinking I'm saving the world.

>>14102030
nigga, are you retarded? almost all lines such as these are arbitrary
>sleep with 17 years, 364 days old girl = go to prison
>eww pedophile
>sleep with 18 years, 0 days old girl = do not
theyre arbitrary but their primary value comes from clearly demarcating two things, otherwise every smartass cunt like you would keep arguing
>but what about 9%?
>how about 8.95%?
>continue this iteration for god knows how long
>how about 0.1%?

half these little shits are just signal virtuing. you know it. i know it.
nothing wrong with being a useless signal virtuing dildo if you acknowledge that 1) that's all youre really doing, signal virtuing to your favored tribe and 2) signal virtuing rarely amounts to fuck all other than cool kiddie points in your hip youngster circle

very few people are unaware of communism
most people are unaware of the intricacies of communism and most importantly
HOW a communist revolution would work, WHY a communist revolution would be good for them, and a myriad of other points about addressing things such as
>is this even feasible?
>why would communism be better?
>how come all the places that have tried communism has failed?
>what are the ways to prevent these failures if you were to go about your "communis-ing"?

but yeah, you keep using the book cover of Das Kapital as your computer background while you fellate your buddehs as you sigh "bro, we're doing a good job, we're making a change"
remember to catch the nut, spitters are quitters

>>14102057
Propaganda is a productive act. You have to make your movement be seen and bring people in before doing anything. You every been on a political party before? Activism and propaganda is the most important thing to bring in new members to actually start having an impact on anything.
You think it's more productive to go in the woods alone and die ambushing a military vehicle and thus accomplishing nothing?

>>14102084
>Propaganda is a productive act
Wrong.

Look around you, there's 1,000,000 people shilling their cause. Propaganda works when it's the only poster in your town, not when you have a small metal rectangle in your hand 24/7 beaming an infinite amount of ideologies at you. You're wasting your time and you don't care because all you want is the easiest fucking task that you can post about or tell people about so they think you're interesting.

>>14102084
>You think it's more productive to go in the woods alone and die ambushing a military vehicle and thus accomplishing nothing?
Yes, I do.

At least then you'd be a martyr, right now you're just a poser crying for attention by doing literally the lowest possible effort activity there is: sitting on your computer, shitposting.

>>14102084
signal virtuing is not propaganda.
it may, arguably, qualify as something that enhances the feverishness of an already swayed population, with the hope of utilizing such enthusiasm for doing real shit

but it is not propaganda. its the equivalent of that time where we were all young and dumb cunts that wore pants so baggy they inhibited walking and running because we wanted to show our peers "hey, im in the in-group too bro"

if anything, your garbage propaganda has turned away any on-the-fence people while further hardening the opposition

>see past polls about the gays
>i dont see anything wrong with the gays, its fine
>see recent polls about the gays
>i am not as favorable to the gays anymore, not because i dislike gays, but because the gays have become so extreme it is causing me discomfort and i fear the consequences of accidentally saying the "wrong thing" near a gay
>also the gays tend to also be LGBTLMNOP+ and those cunts tend to be SJWs and feminazis

>>14102077
Arbitrary lines in society are decided legislatively and enforced by law. They are not just the opinion of a random autist on /lit/ that just decides "10% annual income is doing something otherwise you are a poser".
>HOW a communist revolution would work, WHY a communist revolution would be good for them, and a myriad of other points about addressing things such as
Funny that seems to be the communication/propaganda/activism/awareness raising shit i'm talking about how weird right? Most movements in the world are composed of 95% followers that do basically nothing what did you expect? You think most people silently supporting Neo-Liberalism are willing to die for it?
>>14102062
So your solution to poverty is doing nothing and never have any projects beyond the scopes of your immediate surroundings. Sounds productive.
Lucky not everybody in humankind is the way you are or we would still be in the caves.

>>14102144
>So your solution to poverty
My solution to poverty is to not be a delusional child who thinks poverty is some math equation or booboo that if we just throw enough money and attention to it'll disappear.

Guess what fucknuts, if you want your internet, your phone, your ribeye steak, your clothes, your house...then someone else has to lose out. These things don't come cheap for no reason. Your comfortable life is built on the backs of 3rd world children, the same ones you claim you want to help. I personally, don't care. I don't care if some 3rd worlder I've never met dies to make my watch.

>>14102144
yeah, it is just an opinion of an autistic and retarded shitposted on lit. that is true, and i agree with you. but there are others who think 10% is a number to start working with

>Why ten percent?
>It’s ten percent because that’s the standard decreed by Giving What We Can (https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/)) and the effective altruist community.
>Why should we believe their standard? I think we should believe it because if we reject it in favor of “No, you are a bad person unless you give all of it,” then everyone will just sit around feeling very guilty and doing nothing.
>But if we very clearly say “You have discharged your moral duty if you give ten percent or more,” then many people will give ten percent or more.
>The most important thing is having a Schelling point, and ten percent is nice, round, divinely ordained, and – crucially – the Schelling point upon which we have already settled. It is an active Schelling point.

>Funny that seems to be the communication/propaganda/activism/awareness raising shit i'm talking about how weird right?
and yet you have not said a single thing in this thread that delves more deeply into the specifics and complexities of communism

how about you try breaking down Das Kapital to start? i understand the inherent limitations of a meme posting site, but plenty of other people in other lit threads have given sound responses when asked about anything from Nietzsche to that russian dude with epilepsy

>oh my god, but even Karl Marx wasn't quite sure of how to make the transition to a communist society

keep it up big boi, i expect great things from you

>>14102096
>Look around you, there's 1,000,000 people shilling their cause.
Yeah everybody is trying constantly to gain influence over other ideas.
>You're wasting your time
Oh yeah. Defeatism. Much more productive. That will accomplish a lot.

>>14102114
>At least then you'd be a martyr
And if the martyr dies without millions of supporters shilling his death it is completely worthless and not even heard of. Great plan.

>>14102116
I'm not the PR manager for the "Gays" and considering their movement is growing worldwide, gaining influence, and accomplishing legislative change in many countries and even becoming an argument of geopolitical positioning i would say they are being quite successful.
The point of propaganda is precisely to have as many idiots in baggy pants repeat your points endlessly thinking they are cool and for the purpose of banging the chick with glasses all the while making your ideas more ingrained in "normalcy" and "group think".

>>14102189
>Oh yeah. Defeatism. Much more productive. That will accomplish a lot.
It's not defeatism if I don't even believe in your loony tunes ideology in the first place

>>14102189
>And if the martyr dies without millions of supporters shilling his death it is completely worthless and not even heard of
So you'll only ever actually do anything when millions of people have practically already made communist revolt a reality? God you're naive.

>>14102189
sounds like brainwash to me. which is fine, everything is brainwash.

it is up to the individual to reject brainwash. but at the end of the day, life is short, and we can only give a shit about so few things that it is impossible to verify everything by yourself

the problem is deciding what is good and is bad brainwash
and to me, communism, as it currently stands, and as exemplified by you and your pepe comrades, is bad brainwash
>your communist utopia is always just one execution away

>>14102179
Alright that's interesting, fair enough. But that's jut about charities, not political involvement.

>and yet you have not said a single thing in this thread that delves more deeply into the specifics and complexities of communism
Maybe because we are talking about what makes an involvement "doing something" and not Das Kapital. What do you want to talk about?

>>14102166
Yes so you don't care, good on you. And i don't really care that you don't care. Doing capital investments in third world countries to make them grow out of their abject poverty is fine by me. If things have to start getting expensive for us so be it i'm okay with that.

>>14102243
>Doing capital investments in third world countries to make them grow out of their abject poverty is fine by me.
That's not how real life works

>>14102243
explain Das Kapital to me. or at least, provide an overall primer thats better than "hol'up bro, let me copy paste wiki"

also i "reckon" your political involvement is barely worth garbage
if there was a machine where you could input political involvement and churn out some numerical value to quantify how much your political involvement is worth, it would probably be less than $100

>b-b-but muh Marx said that is the tragedy of a capitalistic society! we only see things in numbers! we only value what can be translated into monetary terms!
>the shit cunt barista reciting his poetry for free has value comrade!
true, but its value is worth little to nothing. on a good day, it may be a pleasant surprise.
>oh, that's a witty line
on most days, you wish you brought your earphones so you could tune out his garbage.

but u big boi, u make big changes men
lenin is rolling in his grave

>>14102196
Nobody asked you to be chief propagandist. We are talking about the importance of communication not whether or not you should become a Socialist activist right because i don't care what you do with your time.

>>14102205
A movement has timing and certain activities that correspond with it. If you are just going to gather 10 guys and blow your brains out it's useless. You need to gather a baseline support make your voice heard put pressure on the public debate and eventually maybe stage a revolt when the time is right. Or just gain power institutionally. Depends on the movement.
I don't get what you are arguing anymore desu.

>>14102211
Well that's up to you. Socialist propaganda has been pretty bad for at least 70 years in the west to be fair.

>>14102273
Okay so how do you make a country not poor "in real life" please i'm curious.

>>14102279
I don't understand what you tried to say here at all.
>Explain Das Kapital for me
Well, that's a ~600 pages long economic manuscript that analyses the Capitalist system. It talks about a bunch of things like Commodity production, wages, capital accumulation, theories of Value.

>>14102316
glad you could must up one short sentence summing up the table of contents

this is right here, exemplifies the vast majority of current commies. it speaks for itself.

ill give you another chance. pick any topic, within Das Kapital, and speak about it. and do us all a favor and break it down into 4chan autism speak so 1) we understand you and 2) we know you didnt just copy and paste like you just did

>>14102013
>the fuck are cards and phones but material goods? the fuck is poverty if it isn't defined by material goods?
ABJECT is the keyword. That kind of poverty is differentiated from the "regular" kind for a reason.

>>14102331
Well excuse me for not writing an essay about Das Kapital for you i don't have all night.
Well he talks about how the markets prices of things is based upon their value determined by the addition of Constant capital (materials and stuffs) + Variable capital (Wages and rents) + Surplus value (The value of labor extracted by the Capitalist for profits)
To be fair he didn't create the labor theory of value he just perfected it and added in the exploitation of labor argument and on top of this all his teleological dialectical materialism.
This help to understand why the Capitalist seek cheaper labor that works longer in third world countries and then to sell the products back in the 1st world to he can extract as much Surplus Value out of labor as possible.
I mean i'm not really in the mood to randomly talk about the Capital.

>>14102393
>I mean i'm not really in the mood to randomly talk about the Capital.
usually this is a pretty legit answer
but coupled with all your previous replies and your incessant need to justify your signal virtuing, it is not wonder that most people would arrive to this conclusion:
>another cunty poser

sure, i have a tiny bit of reserve regarding my harsh and over-sweeping conclusion of you as a person
but a large part of me is saying: this little shit cant even admit when hes just a signal virtuing dildo that does little to nothing while deriving a false sense of superiority for merely "decrying" the system. if only he said
>"why yes, most of what i do is just signal virtuing to my preferred in-group, but i intend on following up on my convictions, allow me to demonstrate the extent of my beliefs through some reasonable action (explain some topic in Das Kapital, or any of the other things i had touched upon) at a later date. i will do so around X, with an image of Y, is that sufficient?"
>"hehe, this dumb cunt will never follow up on me at X time because his own conviction to call out posers isnt strong enough to commit to even that! gotcha ya, ya little shit"

>>14101654
>you don't have frens.
>>14101679
>you're oversocialised,

>>14101620
this but unironically
t. nechayev

>>14101614
This isn't valid criticism OP. I'm sure in a socialist society you could participate, dimwit.

>>14102316
>Okay so how do you make a country not poor "in real life" please i'm curious.
You don't.

Not without making another country poor.

>>14102484
More than one person thinks you're a twat

>>14103128
>This isn't valid criticism OP
Why not?

4chan
>Of course I argue about stupid shit all the time and can't stay on topic because someone hurt my feelings

>>14101614
>>14101636
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>>14101679
>>14101732
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>>14101972
>>14102013
>>14102057
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>>14102166
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>>14103969
Filthy pseud

>>14103969
Imagine going back to Jim Crow America and telling black people
>If you don't want segregated schools, why do you continue to send your children to black-only schools?
It's that level of retardation

>>14104370
There's 3+ different posters you egotistical faggot. LOT'S of people think you're a wanker.

>>14104385
You're not a child, you're an adult. If you talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. Coward.

The Jim Crow comparison would be being a black rights activist in your living room while acting as white as possible at your office job.

>>14101614
I would kindly request that anglos leave this board. Thank you for your consideration.