/lit/ - Literature

>>14090101
Nietzsche never advocated for people to embrace master morality and pretty much directly instructed people to transcend it.

>>14090122
Very misleading terminology then
Who the fuck wants to be a slave? I would think people would rather be a master

>>14090202
You're another moron on /lit. Nietzsche clearly prefaces the discussion about how most modern moralities are a combination of the two. He then talks about how pity/compassion is slavish, and worthless. Then in book 9 he talks about how pity/compassion should be considered a virtue and then talks about animals, and then says the slave morality pity isn't actually pity but greed.

>>14090202
>>14090217
It's also a translation, so it might mean something different in the original German. Such as übermensch being overman literally.

>>14090101

>>14090202
>Very misleading terminology then
>Who the fuck wants to be a slave?
The term is supposed to describe the origins of the morality rather than ascribe a value judgement to it.
Nietzsche is pretty clear that humanity needs new ideas and institutions to fill the void left by the old ones. He doesn't perscribe a morality to readers because he recognizes the limitations of all those previously existing, he isn't a reactionary

the natural world is hierarchical and there are winners and losers. slave morality is a total rejection of this reality. master morality embraces our animalism.

how is mankind going to ascend beyond our primitive state if we encourage the weak?

congratulations though anon, you have discovered the master-slave revelation and you are at least questioning it. Most men cant even bring themselves to walk to the path to its discovery. its too harrowing.

>>14090465
Like this drivel is of any importance

>>14090474
not an argument

>>14090474
t. slave

>>14090465
>how is mankind going to ascend beyond our primitive state if we encourage the weak?
By not encouraging primitive behavior

>>14090477
It is tho

>>14090485
Sorry you're buying into this crap

>>14090491
look how mad slaves get when you call them out lmao

>>14090500
yeah man i'm so mad
maybe one day i'll get so mad i'll start saving and posting meme pictures along with my replies so as to hide how mad i actually am

>>14090122
Fpbp

>>14090101
You would likely be happier by following what he calls "slave morality" than if you followed "master morality".

>>14090442
>The term is supposed to describe the origins of the morality
Does he have evidence for his claims?

>>14090227
>Christianity, "the most fatal kind of self-presumption ever", has beaten everything joyful, assertive and autocratic out of man and turned him into a "sublime abortion"

>autocratic

Wtf did he mean by this? What’s his problem?

>>14090580
Jesus Christ anon, his philosophy is an art not a science, why are you being so pedantic about this? Especially when you've never bothered to read him.

>>14090602
Why do you idiots just take random quotes out of context and expect them to mean anything?

>>14090623
That was my first post in this thread.
But to say that morality started this way or that way, you need to have some basis.

>>14090630
Anon, it's an art not a science. Think that over again saying that morality as an art began in that way and it makes more sense. He is not a scientific philosopher.

>>14090465
>slave morality is a total rejection of this reality
>how is mankind going to ascend beyond our primitive state if we encourage the weak?
Wrong. We are naturally egalitarian apes. We ascended from our primitive state thanks to prinicples of justice and cooperation. When our apish ancestors decided that they will use pointed stick to hurt each other, it greatly enhanced lethality of combat and undermined the power of Big Grug. In order for them not to kill each other, they had to establish rule based on consensus instead of violence.

>>14090202
I would say that a lot of people would not mind being a slave. Its just the conotations of that word that scares people and the hyper indiviguality of today. In the past, people wouldnt mind saying they are a slave of Jupiter, or God, or what have you, as hierarchy is natural. Just as one internalized the values of their community or rejects it, in that way they are slaves to that syste. I think Melville put it well, "who aint a slave?". People just have different levels of slavishness and Masterness.

>>14090602
Maybe you should read the fucking book you dud.

>>14090101
He's popular because people don't read. They don't know what he wrote besides a few choice quotes about music and overcoming struggles.

>>14090101
Because such an ideal world is impossible to achieve. Man has to break with his reliance on god and other people.

>>14090122
Exactly, its a metaphor for understanding Nietzsches view on what he saw as warring moral visions, much like his concept of the Apollonian/Dionysian is just a metaphor for understanding artistic visions

>>14090465
You aren’t supposed to pick one like a burger sports team and then root for it. Real moral ideologies are a mix of both where one may overpower the other. This is just a lens to understand it through

>>14090227
>christianity has destroyed all my "pagan" memes
>therefore christianity is the...weak one

The absolute state etc.

>>14090101
>Why is Nietzsche so popular, when he is basically encouraging people to be self interested power hungry psychopaths
What about this would prevent him becoming popular exactly? (not that I agree that was necessarily what he was arguing)

Why explain Nietzsche to dipshits when they actually opt for their misunderstanding? No one who's read Nietzsche, who knows the first thing about western thought, could ask OP's dipshit question. The OP and many of the dipshit posters in this thread are only interested in arguments against Nietzsche for vain or prejudiced motives with no regard for anything he actually wrote or believed as claims about truth. A distinction between approaches outlined in OP's picture was known about in Ancient Greece itself --Callicles argues for a version of master morality against Socrates' slave morality in Gorgias-- and to imagine Nietzsche's point was about the sets of morals themselves, not about the concept of morality generally, is so unspeakably fucking braindead you're on par with flatearthers arguing with physicist. Here's a moral dictum for you retarded dipshit losers: learn some humility and actually read..

>>14090202
>Who the fuck wants to be a slave?
Everybody with an addiction.

>>14090489
>master morality reigns
>ancient world to now, leaps of substantial tech and scientific advances, deep thinking and philosophies (thanks to enslaving others so you have more time to think), greatness and wealth, highness, beautiful art, becoming literally the master race (whites)

>slave morality reigns (current time)
>absolute decadence
>science denial or acceptance depending on the current flavor of the month cosmopolitan/man-equivalent article
>destructive and suicidal behaviors as a society, as a race and as a individual
>unability to take matters into one's hands, reliance and mass slavery to the state
>gradual loss of individual and collective freedom
>forced equality, doctors and people in positions of causing harm due to incompetence when they shouldn't be (quota filling, affirmative action, etc.)
>progressive favelization of neighborhoods (due to pathological altruism bringing in thousands of third world apes)
>technological stagnation, cars still run on oil thanks to the jewish fuel conglomerates
>etc.

Well, I think I know which one I'm going to choose. What about you?

>>14090122
??
Care to provide some source to support your claim? Nietzsche pretty much glorifies this kind of thinking, where does he dissuade the reader from it?

>>14090101
People with a mix of both have happy successful lives. People without aspects of one side have miserable lives and thus spend time justifying why their miserable lives are a good thing or another's fault.

>>14090101
>B
>A
>B
>A
>B
>A
>A

I flip-flop a lot between the proposed moralities here. I believe those who have proven themselves truly good and right and selfless, and are mentally beyond the narratives and indoctrinations of liberal society, should rule over the degenerate masses with an iron and bloody fist.

>>14090227
>NOOOOOOO MUH NOBILITY NOOOO MUHH EAGLE IS TOO MAJESTIC FOR THIS WORLD, FILTHY MAGGOTSES CAN'T TOUCH IT!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN SYMBIOSIS CIRCLE OF LIFE NOOOOOOOOOO

>>14090217
>He then talks about how pity/compassion is slavish, and worthless
>Then in book 9 he talks about how pity/compassion should be considered a virtue
So which is it?
I think he was mentally ill.

>>14090227
>Christianity is a revolt against everything that is elevated
>Christians worship the highest God, they stress both humility and obedience
This guy is retarded lmao

>>14091330
>break with his reliance on god and other people.
Why?
Why the fuck would I give up my connections to people I care for? And yes, to care is a weakness, if you are perfectly self reliant there is no incentive to give a shit about anyone.
Luckily its impossvle to be perfectly self reliant so we can still have love. Neitzsche was a total fucking retard, why the fuck do people care about him? Fucking beastly fuck.

>>14093077
/thread

>>14093334
>the highest god that also orders you to behave like a total cuckold
Woah brah, so high.

>>14093398
>muh strawman version of christianity

>>14090101
Whoever made this didnt get a thing and only jerks of to the asthetic of abstract dichtonomies.

>>14090122 is right it´s not about some "Master Morality" it´s about awareness about ones desires and not going the way to achieve morality with virtues which arent your own,
which you only accepted because of cultural osmosis.

>>14090101
There's no point in even trying to begin to explain it to a brainlet. Even if someone were to provide genuinely sound reasoning or even evidence, your idiocy would deny the claims as nonsense because you're always right.
>This book belongs to the most rare of men. Perhaps not one of them is yet alive. It is possible that they may be among those who understand my “Zarathustra”: how could I confound myself with those who are now sprouting ears?—First the day after tomorrow must come for me. Some men are born posthumously. -The Antichrist, Preface

>>14093761
>This book belongs to the most rare of men. Perhaps not one of them is yet alive

Because Christians have triumphed over them and you shit yourself and died shortly after you released this abortion of a book.

>>14093808
>Because Christians have triumphed over them
>christian women being blacked by based muslims as we talk
>muslim numbers increase while christian numbers decrease
>even the pope kisses the feet of muslims publicly

Yes, yes, you guys are triumphant.
By Allah, how ignorant.

>>14090202
It's not "What Spice Girl you are?" quiz. It's genealogy of morals. Those morals serve to advance position in life of each specific class and Nicze aimed to prove so.

Holding master morality doesn't make you a master. If your social position is that of a slave and you hold master morality, you are a cuckold.

>>14090754
>Wrong. We are naturally egalitarian apes.
>We ascended from our primitive state thanks to prinicples of justice and cooperation.
Yeah man, thats why all the peaceful and most egalitarian tribes and populations that existed in europe got extinct and killed by other tribes. Lets not talk about even the ones in america.
The principles of justice are always changing and were very very diferent back then, so idk what you are talking with equality and justice when people would call justice the killing of a slave that tried to run away from its master.
If we were all about egalitarianism then the world wouldnt be as it is now and neither its whole history.

>>14090202
In Islam being known as a slave of Allah is basically the highest appelation you can be given.
But it's of course the peak of slave morality.

>>14093960
>peaceful and most egalitarian tribes and populations that existed in europe
Stay dead Marija

>>14093960
I'm talking about times before yours, Pleistocene and early hunter gatherer tribes. Of course as time went on, some people decided to enslave others and broke the conditions in which egalitarianism was optimal. You are also mistaken in your assumption that extra-tribal violence is incompatible with intra-tribal equality.

>>14093334
I'll take the bait. Nietzsche wrote that people naturally elevate decadence (pride, wealth, etc.).

However, people with a slave mentality couldn't get pride or wealth (due to their circumstances). So, he says they created Christianity to elevate new virtues (humility, being thrifty) to make themselves more virtuous than the powerful.

Therefore, the people with the slave mentality have revolted against what people naturally value (decadence, hedonism, etc.).

>>14093996
Of course when you have almost isolated tribes with little population you are not gonna have that huge of a hierarchical segmentation.
>You are also mistaken in your assumption that extra-tribal violence is incompatible with intra-tribal equality.
Oh you mean that inside the tribes themselves there werent social hierarchies? There werent people that had better positions of power and ability to take more than others?
Even in all communities of apes and monkeys you see a hierarchical segmentation. Just because you dont have one tribesman living like a king while the other has to do the slave work doesnt mean you dont have a psychological herarchy working. But its when population grows and the wealth capacy increases that you see this more clearly between animals.

>>14094107
>Even in all communities of apes and monkeys you see a hierarchical segmentation
Yes, apes and monkeys. Give them spears and after many thousands of years they will develop egalitarian culture in order not to murder each other to extinction over who´s gonna be the Big Chimp. The egalitarian arrangement was developed to counter this "proto-MAD" situation.

>>14094159
Just because humans no longer use weapons and warfare as much as they used to before doesnt mean you have broken the "class war" and herarchies lmao. The lack of violence and war doesnt mean there are no longer classes with power oppressing other classes with lesser power inside it. And the world we live in is proof of it.

You also fail to grasp that in order for egalitarian societies to work you need a higher force, a state or a king with power in order to enforce such egalitarianism on people that might opose it, which refutes the doctrine of egalitarianism. Human "nature" is already by itself the triumph of your will and the oppression of other wills that opose you. Even the people who like to play te victim card today do it so in order to attain more recognition and a power status above others.

>>14094217
>Just because humans no longer use weapons and warfare as much as they used to before doesnt mean you have broken the "class war" and herarchies lmao.
I´m not saying anything about contemponary society. Of course society has been predominantly hiearchical for millenia.

>You also fail to grasp that in order for egalitarian societies to work you need a higher force, a state or a king with power in order to enforce such egalitarianism on people that might opose it
Wrong. I´m talking about nascent stage of humanity, when our ancestors lived in very small tribes composed of dozens indivudals at best. Those numbers are too small for a state to emerge and if Big Grug tried to seize power (which in those times meant Gruginas), he would be ganged upon by Gruglets and killed. Hence the rule of consensus emerged.

>>14093202
>ancient world to now, leaps of substantial tech and scientific advances
All that happened under Christianity, so are they the master morality?

>>14090580
He has an entire book called "Genealogy of morality" where he tries to substantiate these claims.

>>14094307
Just because the BigGrug couldnt get that much power in the small tribe is doesnt tell anything about human nature of wanting to get power as i explained it before. In fact you just outright admited that strong humans strive for power as opposed to your first claim that humans are naturally inclined to egalitarianism.

>>14090101
>Christian morality

my sides!

>>14094432
correlation causation something something
>All that happened under and after the Renaissance, which implies distancing from christianity and finding value and inspiration in the former greek and roman pagan culture and art of ancient times, so are they the master morality?
fixed

That image is literally just thinking vs feeling. If being a master means being autistic then I am fine as a slave.

>>14094482
>Just because the BigGrug couldnt get that much power in the small tribe is doesnt tell anything about human nature of wanting to get power as i explained it before.
It tells you where did our egalitarian instincts came from. Why are we different from our apish relatives that don´t have them.

>In fact you just outright admited that strong humans strive for power as opposed to your first claim that humans are naturally inclined to egalitarianism.
No, I didn´t. I said that the situation begun to favour hiearchical structures as civilization begun to emerge. However the selective pressure wasn´t strong enough/didn´t have enough time to erase our nature. That´s why slave morality is neither rejection of reality nor somehow contradictory to our animalism. It´s ultimately just a strategy that does or doesn´t work depending on situation on the playing field.

Proletarian morality is the only real morality.