/lit/ - Literature

>>14077474
Classics or Philosophy, whichever you prefer. Don't do English. History has become too politicized.

I am thinking about majoring in cs. I am not that good (usually get around high 70s on my tests) but I want a job. Is it really that bad? Certainly there are some companies where one could be creative and have a bit of satisfaction? Am I naive?

>>14077485
Those companies exist, but if you're not good as you say then they won't employ you.

>>14077486
Why not English?

>>14077492
How do they even know if someone is good or not in the first place

>>14077504
They'll look at your portfolio and test you.

>>14077495
A lot of the people I know who did English said it made them lose their passion for literature. Some of them regained it after a break from reading while others just stopped reading literature altogether. Maybe you'll be different.

>>14077474
CS ≠ Code monkey.
Don't switch because you'll be jobless.

>>14077474
Those choices are all about equally awful for job/career prospects,so pick the one you'll enjoy most. It will give you something to remember later on in the salt mines.

If you want to study humanities and still be able to get a job I'd suggest practical courses like Economy or Psychology. Everything else you mentioned is something you do as a hobby, not something you base a career on.

>>14077474
I hope you don't have big ambitions, anon, cos none of those majors are gonna help you get a job. If you really want to study one of those, you're going to have to be content with the fact that you're probably not going to have a comfy job. So pick one you REALLY enjoy.

>>14077589
There are no comfy jobs. Like what am I going to do with a CS or Finance degree? Get a brainded job and join the "hussle" like everyone else?

>>14077595
What I mean is, I hope you like flipping patties

>>14077595
You are young and idealistic. That's just how the world works. Where do you want to work otherwise.

I think you can get a relatively low key cs job if you want it anyways. Not all jobs have to be a hustle like you describe. Finance is another story though lol

You should try to find a middle ground instead of jumping from one extreme to the other and ending up with a major absolutely worthless on the job market, which will make you just as miserable. Try something like >>14077560 suggested, maybe consider law as well.

>>14077474
You're about to change your major to something that will eventually force you to kill yourself or be homeless.

I majored in English (and math) and minored in philosophy and I really enjoyed some of the classes. The philosophy classes weren't that great since the stuff I was interested in was rare and none of the 4th year courses were about anything I'm interested in though my 4th year course, which I thought was going to suck, was actually pretty decent. It was on Plato's ideation of love.

As for English, it's a hit or miss but more apparent. Some of the classes that were awful stayed awful while the really good ones stayed really good. My favorites were the class I took on critical theory and Paradise Lost.

I think, while getting a job is important, you should study what you want. Expand your horizons and become the person you want to be. Most jobs require experience and other postsecondary stuff to advance beyond being a shit-eating garbage dweller anyways.

I did some work as a copywriter and then worked at the bank for a little while before I decided to do a postgrad program. You can always revisit compsci but the urge and love for English can only be developed in your formative years. But at the end of the day, do what you want, friend.

>>14077474
What are you most interested in? Are you passionate about philosophy, or history, or literature (English/Classics/Comp Lit)? The thing with those majors is that a mere undergrad major, while easy and fun, won't get you anywhere. If you do want a career in those (and yeah it's hard to get a job but not impossible) it's going to require a PhD. You need to be cut out for that. You'll hate anything you're not cut out for. It'll be like CS. I hope you're cut out for some college degree. The reality is most people are not passionate about anything and they only major in something for the sake of finishing a degree and maybe getting a job.

>>14077595
my job is comfy. I'm currently "working" from my armchair.

>>14077733
what is it?

>>14077746
I'm a "machine learning consultant". Whatever the fuck that means.

>>14077753
it means u get paid to click on pictures

>>14077523
Just coming here to say it was the opposite for me. Did English undergrad, now I'm in an MFA. My best friend also did English and she's still the most well read person I've ever met.

>>14077474
What about comp lit? I did econ in undergrad and I’m considering comp lit, philosophy, or classics and medieval studies for grad school, but I really enjoyed comp lit.

Just keep in mind that unfortunately Uni has been reduced to a job placement program these days.

>>14077595
That’s what I did and I hate it.

How far in are you OP? I decided about half way through school I wanted to write or make films/videos instead of coding. I ended up getting the piece of paper (BS in CS) anyways and just pursuing writing/filming/editing in my spare time. I now work as a video editor and love my job, so it can be done

>>14077806
For your own sake, don't go into medieval studies in grad school.

>>14077844
Why?

>>14077865
I think one line of reasoning is that youre expected to know a lot more than modern historians, but im going off some rumor i overheard so

>>14077790
In this case I'm glad to be refuted.

How about architecture?

>>14077474
Try out for ATC, tons of fucking money

>>14077474
OP, this may not be the best option. I did similarly and now am uncertain it was the right choice.

I was a Stanford student class of '15. I came in not really knowing what I wanted to do but being good at classes in general and letting the tide carry me to CS, where I knew I could get a job. For a whole host of reasons, after my sophomore year, I switched to Classics & Philosophy. Mainly, my life lacked meaning / purpose and I knew that reading and engaging with the great works of literature was what made me feel most human. My most important relationships were with books / poetry / essays, and I thought my life as it was going was just vapid. I hated most everything about tech culture and silicon valley broadly, and the only time I wasn't angry was when I was running/lifting.

Switching majors, my life improved immensely -- I won't lie about that. I was excited to improve at Latin and learn Greek and I loved my class discussions. I made time to do extra readings and revise papers to get them published in undergrad journals. I became a much more acute writer, scholar, and thinker; I even started hanging out with people with whom I could hold real conversations and form meaningful relationships. Studying the humanities ignited an even greater passion in me to read novels and to write -- essays, stories, and poetry.

I do fundamentally believe that such an experience should be what college is -- a mind-expanding chance to grow and explore and challenge yourself. But then, what comes after --

You're going to have to get a job.

As you probably know or will find out soon by talking with your professors, academic humanities positions don't really exist anymore. (https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Great-Shame-of-Our/239148 -- https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/08/28/more-humanities-phds-are-awarded-job-openings-are-disappearing).). I am getting a grad degree in Classics from a top university with the best credentials one could have, but to say the prospects look bleak is too optimistic. There aren't prospects. My advisors have openly talked about how they thought things couldn't get any worse than they were in the 80's; pay and job openings have plummeted since then.

So what are you going to do? Teach high school? Just as a simple comparandum, new hires to facebook will make more money as a signing bonus -- sometimes up to twice as much -- than the yearly salary of a high school teacher in most states. And pretending like you could live off the high of "making the world a better place," most of the job is not actually teaching but rather dealing with shitty administrations and parents and problem students. My mother, a high school teacher now for >30 years, has told me that she does it for the "one student every year or every other year" that falls in love with poetry. Can you live for one student every other year on a shit salary?

>>14078455
I don't want to pretend like I have any real answers. I don't know if I made the right choice or not. How happy is the version of me that works for Facebook and enjoys his massive paycheck, job security, knowledge of early retirement, paid vacation time, and evenings and weekends to read and write as much as he wants? I don't know, but I'd be lying if I said that didn't look like a good life from where I am now. Yeah, OP, I don't know. I don't know shit. Following your dreams may not be the wise choice.

But, I mean, fuck it -- maybe wisdom is overrated and living with poetry and without anxieties of the future is the only choice

>>14078455
So would you have changed your decision then? How are you going to get by?

I am in a similar position. Current freshman at an ivy, not sure what to major in. I don't hate CS (I'm not very good at it though), but I like Comparative Religion and Outdoor stuff more than anything. I feel that Religion is an even more difficult major to get hired with than Classics. I would be interested in Environmental jobs, but I am not very good in the sciences. I sorta feel like I am throwing my money away since I don't have a good plan with what to do in my life. I was unironically learning more about what I like when I was in high school and had a ton of free time to read.

Do this OP >>14077840
Just get the degree and use it to transition to something you like
HR will be impressed with a CS degree and no one really cares about undergrad majors
Grad school is where you specialize

>>14077485
>Am I naive?
As a an almost universal rule: If you didn't invest significantly into it as a hobby long before uni (think writing minecraft mods as a kid and such), you'll really hate being a computer nerd as you can't really derive much satisfaction from it.

>>14078455
its like that kierkegaard quote
do cs and you'll regret it
do philosophy and shit and you'll regret it

>>14078493
>Following your dreams may not be the wise choice.
It is because only that you can chase only your dreams with any meaningful drive and not bore yourself to death as a wagecuck.

The problem with a lot of humanity degrees is not the field as such, but because people *suck* at it. Most of other fields consist of producing tangible value with relatively low effort and just some education, whereas in humanities this is less common. English literature degree seems to imply you'd have a higher chance of being a successful writer, yet there's pretty much zero correlation in practice.

Whereas the more "down to earth" fields correlate success with education at least weakly. For instance, politology, anthropology, psychology, linguistics - are things you can be actually "good at" and market has some small demand for. However, hell will freeze over before one is "good" at popular, but hopelessly masturbatory topics, such as classics, literature or being woke.

>>14078528
How are you going to get by?
Great American novel and or die trying, my man.
>So would you have changed your decision then?
See >>14078493. I really don't know. Like Kierkegaard & anon said >>14078868. I don't want to give out advice and pretend like I know shit, but I know that I am better person because I chose to follow what I was most interested in and I know my life is materially worse for that same choice.

>>14078923
>It is because only that you can chase only your dreams with any meaningful drive and not bore yourself to death as a wagecuck.
m8y I think you might be high

Freshman here going into a ok uni( 50% accep rate). I plan on doing a double major of both Philosophy(or English) and something like Econ/Psychology. Plan is to just focus on getting into grad school and work for a job in a school. Worst case scenario i'm a law grad of some kind. But i'd honestly die then study any bone-dry stuff like CS. I think college level mathematics and Biology is cool too but its in the same boat as Humanities majors.

>>14078455
>>14078493
anon, I'm you in 2013. Funny I always thought I was the only one at Stanford (undergrad) on this site. Was suspended for the last year by getting repeatedly fucked by CS, freshman year something inside me died in the spring (after taking 107 and failing 103 no less) and sophomore year i continually hated everything I did until I finally buckled in 161 and got suspended at the end of sophomore year. I don't know what about this shit drains me so much, because I used to be fucking top mental shape prior to uni and would be happy to tackle any hard homework. Maybe it's the tech culture, the toxic competition/curve (in later classes especially), the grim future I'm signing myself up for this flagellating, dickwaving industry. Or maybe it's me over-obsessing and making it more difficult than it has to be, and I'm just subconsciously being a retarded contrarian. But every quarter just sucks ass and ends up with me nearly losing my mind and questioning my existence.

>You're going to have to get a job
that's what scares me the most. Me fucking up continuously keeps slowly closing the door to what seems like some divine afterlife of a facebook/google/techy job. Though I know any degree is better than no degree, I say I'm willing to sell myself out for the degree, though when it comes down to the line (week 8 shit assignments/midterms no time/ long nights) I really don't, and that allure of a nice easy paycheck for a comfy yet constantly evaluated job in this shithole of a city starts to lose any kind of meaning to me. I know it's irresponsible to not look 4+ years down the line, but when I don't care if I'm even alive then it all fades on me. Anyway this sounds like some fucking therapist blog, but I'm just really glad to be talking to someone that I can actually relate with and understand, since every fucking other cs person is a legitimate drone, an npc-tier normie, or about to quit the major. Also can relate with running/lifting, finally gained back the weight i lost during school over the past year suspended.

I really just want to peace out for a few years, do some really stupid, dangerous labor job to sustain myself, and return when I'm emotionally mature enough to just be a man and take the huge shaft that is this degree for my remaining 2 years. I even considered military (yes i know it's retarded) for a change of pace and chance to get hurt, but recently riding a motorcycle has filled that itch of sadism.

>in Fleet Street
>Clawcapella Fridays
If you want more proof I'll post my renrollment or suspension email

>>14078455
>>14078493
>How happy is the version of me that works for Facebook and enjoys his massive paycheck, job security, knowledge of early retirement, paid vacation time, and evenings and weekends to read and write as much as he wants?
Anon, from your post, you really seem to have a direction that you are proud to go. You know what you appreciate, and you've found your source of beauty and enjoyment in something.
That's more than most people your age can say, and it's honestly something I envy. You're getting a grad degree, your speaking with your advisors and strategizing, you're healthy: if not you, then who? I honestly think you're gonna make it anon, and when you do get a position despite the shitty prospects, you're going to be 1000x times more respected for making it now than when the field becomes healthy again. I guess those extra gran sound really nice, but I can't imagine you'll sit well imagining missing out on all the things you've learned/experienced in the past years. Besides, you'd be doing this shit until you're 50. Once you're in, you wouldn't ever bring yourself to change careers to something different due to the opportunity cost ($$). A kind of self-volunteered sacrifice. All the way until you're 50. With no real progression except maybe becoming a manager, which is arguably worse. Sounds fun.

tldr you seem like you're gonna make it anon

>>14077753
Thoughts on codecademy machine learning course?

>>14079149
Ha I've literally come across another Stanford student every time I've mentioned it here. Believe it or not, I remember posting on /g/ in ~2014 about picking between continuing CS or switching to history and another stanny kid told me to do history because there were "too many brainless cs kids here, and besides you'll figure something cool out anyway."

More to the point: I think you really need to take some time off. Many of my best friends all took at least a year off and came back way more prepared, better adjusted, and more motivated. (I lived in co-ops sophomore year on so non-traditional students were more common in my circles than most.) How's your relationship with your family? Can you live with them for a year and get a menial job? If not, consider WWOOFing or something similar. Simply put, given your comment, you're not in a good mental place right now. You need to change some things, probably more than just your major. I know there's a stigma against it, but actually consider going to therapy.

Also, how's your social circle? Like actually -- do you have good friends? Living in co-ops (ebf junior and senior year) totally changed how I interacted with others and I'd definitely suggest it. Also, you're already vaguely musical, you could join LSJUMB for football season. It's fun as fuck and an easy way to meet people. I also remember meeting people in Farm Class (EarthSys 180), which was just working on Stanford farm a couple days a week. It's good to be out in the sun.

But yeah, most importantly, really seriously think about taking time off. Do literally anything else for a while. Don't just keep pushing.

>>14079221
Thanks, anon. I'm rooting for you, too.

What does /lit/ think of political sciences/political theory/international relations majors?

Are there jobs? does the degree worth it?

>>14077474
OP I can’t tell you what the right answer is, but I can tell you this. I did the safe thing and studied an employable field I had no interest in. I viewed it as a comfier version of trade school and it did its job. I’m employable. I have a good job at a University (not Academic). I recognize that pursing my real interest in the humanities probably would’ve left me absolutely having to commit to a PhD and shooting for Academic positions or working at Starbucks. I also know that while STEM is really just a job training program, the Humanities are 90% social justice and post-modernist theory rather than a wholly legitimate education. Knowing all of that, I still would’ve pursued the Humanities over my safe STEM degree for 2 reasons:

1. I’ve discovered that I really have no interest in careerist money making. I’m perfectly fine with just enough to get by and have no desire to participate in the 6 figure rat race. It’s totally materialistic and not worth it. I still need to work, but I’m fine with working a normal work week getting paid just enough to live okay.

2. I sacrificed education for a paycheck. I had no interest in my study and I never felt it was of any real importance. I still don’t. Maybe if I had studied what I wanted I would’ve engaged more and even if it was 90% a distortion, I could’ve gotten something out of that 10% and become a better thinker, speaker, writer, reader and used it to fuel my learning outside the classroom which I had to do either way. I’d rather do something that ennobled me and made me a better human than something that made me a wealthier one.

If you choose to study CS, viewing it just as a sort of comfy trade school and perhaps pursue your interests in grad school like me that’s a very viable option, but still somewhat of a waste in my opinion.

As far as the specific major, I’d say Philosophy. If they’re going to be 90% bullshit, you might as well choose the one that attracts other smart people who can read, write, and speak well so you’re forced to read, write, and speak well also.

>>14077474
All this career advice is irrelevant to your major. It's all irrelevant, generic advice. Feel free to ignore it in life , OP.
I've asked countless peoe about the career I want to enter, and they've, without exception, told me to avoid the """practical""" choice of degree, and major in either what I want or in English.
Don't pick a major to pick a career. Pick a career first, then decide how your education and other choices will affect it. If you pick a career and you absolutely need the degree, then take it. If you have some flexibility in your degree, then take what you want. If you want to pick a trade, definitely major in what you want and then go to trade school. You can do both, and get educated. Try getting some work experience with something other than typical student work, to get a sense of how you can progress in the workplace.

I think Philisophy is the best, if you like philisophy. History is biased and in a shitty phase. If you like history, do classics. If you prefer later literature, then so Comp Lit, Literature, or English.

>>14080253
>"Philisophy" not once but twice

>>14077474
I'm majoring in Electronics. I hate this shit as a matter of fact I think I have grown to hate technology. I don't even know what to do. I would like to change my degree to English since reading is one of the only things that make me happy, but I need money I can't be earning 10/hr much longer.

I have two brothers that make good money. One works for a mutual fund company and makes $150,000 in the Midwest. He lives a stressed and fast paced life away from his family most of the week and flies all the time. He goes to therapy and had a panic crisis at 30 because his life was reliant on his career progressing. My other brother is a cop for the city. He makes close to six figures with overtime but has to work close to 80 hour weeks. He has become fat and slovenly. He threw his back out from poor posture and has a sleep apnea machine. His life is full of stress and his only solace comes from buying new shit constantly. He has a suped-up Camaro, a huge truck, a newish civic, a Nissan he pays for his wife, another beater car his wife uses, a 4k tv and amazon echo in every room, a boat, a house secluded with land, two pure bred dogs, and a spoiled daughter. He never has enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he dies early of a heart attack. He drinks heavily and eats like shit. I watched all of this and realized that retards think they need lots of money because everyone else is pressuring them into thinking they need lots of useless shit. Fifty grand in the Midwest will do anyone just fine. It isn't worth the stress and fatigue. Almost everyone has a shit relationship with their wives and it shows. I have nothing near what they have and am way happier than they could ever be. I have my health, a calm mind, and I eat well every day. I even have a great relationship with my gf. You cannot have everything in this world. Money, career, hobbies, relationships, well being, etc. Pick which ones matter. Don't let anons that are also too scared to not follow their heart make that decision for you. At the end of the day, your bank account may be full but what did you have to spend your time doing to make it that way?

>>14077644
double major and minor wtf?
based passion poster

>>14077523
Just do Rhetoric and Composition and not literature in your masters. You’ll get more reliable work and can still teach literary survey classes.

>>14077474
op are you still here? What are your thoughts? This is the most interesting thread I've seen on /lit/ in a while

>>14078830
>long before uni (think writing minecraft mods as a kid
zoomers out

>>14078830
>(think writing minecraft mods as a kid and such)
cringe. At least say Morrowind mods or something.

>>14077790
What's an MFA?
I'm kinda in the same position, BA sucked my interest, doing my masters somehow made it come back.

>>14082248
Different anon, but Master of Fine Arts. It can be related to a lot of different subjects other than writing. Professors who teach English classes but also creative writing usually have an MFA. A lot of published lower and middling range authors, TV and screenplay writers, comic book scripters, directors etc. got started in MFA programs. It's not gonna get you published, or necessarily a job, and it's received its fair share of shit, but a lot of people in creative industries have an MFA.

>>14077474
Art

>>14082262
>Not gonna get you published...
Anon, I thought most people who applied to MFAs were already published? At least a short story or poem or two.

>>14082233
>>14082040
If you're older than a zoomer and only now considering college, choosing a field is the least of your problems. As for morrowind and other gamebryo games, modding that is substantially more about art assets. Such is a portfolio for design and digital art, rather than autism focused CS.

>>14078992
>Great American novel and or die trying
Going to put this on my wall

>>14077474
I studied bio for undergrad and I have been accepted at a physician assistant school starting next August. I work in medicine currently. It can be irritating and make your teeth grind like any other job, but it’s challenging and I am rarely bored. I spend my free time reading/playing vidya. I am set to be making a decent salary after grad school. I see no reason to not just find something useful/interesting to major/establish a career in and then making lit/philosophy a hobby. I have been poor my entire life, I was desperate to not suffer like that forever. I happened to find something that I was interested in that will likely pay well. Look into good-paying fields more deeply and see if you find them interesting. Use that to pay for your hobbies

>>14078830
this is horrible advice. the kid i knew from school who got into programming mods as a hobby dropped out of comp sci to do art school, and i, who used to be a stoner dropkick, switched to comp sci and loved it

>>14079253
>codecademy

I went to a shitty community college for a CIS degree. LOL

I started my first internship as a software engineer after my first interview for a software job. Very nice company. I hope they keep me. I'm finishing up my CIS degree at a medicore uni now.

Why is everyone saying history is so politicized?

>>14083805
Because it is, just like every other college department. In my experience the social justice stuff wasn't forced as hard as in other humanities classes, but it was there. It also depends on what history you're studying.
What I don't get is why people are recommending Classics programs when they've been overtaken by people like pic related.

>>14083833
In my opinion, saying that white supremacists online appropriate Roman images as an appeal to an imagined white lineage connecting themselves with antiquity doesn't really seem like SJW bullshit, just analysis. It's definitely political, but it's an argument to be discussed and was always presented as such.

Maybe I was just lucky because my history/classics courses were discussion-based, but the "sjws killing western civ" narrative never really seemed to apply. I guess this isn't really what this thread was about; I'm just skeptical of post-2016 4chan talking about "political" anything

>>14083833
Isn't it disingenuous to say "Classics programs are being overtaken" by someone who doesn't teach in a Classics program and who is unaffiliated with academia?

>be scifag in college
>totally passionless about it but makin‘ da responsible choice for a job
>used to really like the problem solving of math but study engineering because practical
>know less than average because genuine career chasers are interested in this shit while I did lit/music in my free time
>whatever, school is easy with the bar lowered so niggers can pass
>spend my later two years drunk, shit was...okay
>graduate, get job right out of school
>desk monkey for the next five years using very little actual engineering
>hired and retained because I can perform and move papers and keep my tism under lock for 8 hours
>lose focus, adventure for life, passion, large part of mental energy wasted on sheer indifference (some of which would happen with any job but it‘s exacerbated here)
>riding this train as far as it goes, better make having been to college worthwhile
>get big bank account but this profession selects for the kind of people who live like poorfag monks anyway
>tfw probably would have been happier using my formative years to pursue a passion, become genuinely good at it, up my social skills, get better at chasing girls, and spend more time with friends
>would probably be more fully actualized, happier, live a fuller life as opposed to my current accomplishment of never having been poor or unemployed
>as if the government will let you starve anyway so long as you keep putting out applications and have a job sometimes

History

>>14077474
english is about analyzing texts and shit
if you study english it'll be a degree for being a professor or a tecacher
creative writing is a degree for writers