/lit/ - Literature

Westminster Confession of Faith (1646) is a masterpiece of the Confessional Era.

Apologia Pro Vita Sua

>>14072307
>>14072382
Thank you
Are there any more good narrative works to read though? I suppose Shakespeare

You might like to read the 1650 Scottish metrical Psalter. It has the same older language of the KJV Bible and they are really beautiful.

>>14072283
julian of norwich, revelations of divine love

>>14072824
Thank you, I’ll check it out
>>14073077
Oh man I can’t believe I forgot about Julian. I learned about her as a kid and thought she was fascinating. Thank you anon

>>14074033
if you're in the uk anon, if you haven't seen it there's a pretty interesting doc about her on the iplayer at the mo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07l6bd0/the-search-for-the-lost-manuscript-julian-of-norwich
always love to see dr nina talk about stuff, she knows her medieval gubbins and no mistake

>>14074184
I’m not, but thank you anyway. I’ll look to see if I can find it anywhere I can see it

>>14072283
The Cloud of Unknowing

>>14072283
William Law, venerated Anglican Boehmian Theosopher

>>14072283
This channel also happens to have a number of lectures on the Christianity in Britain along with Christian history in general.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrI5U0R293u9uveijefKyAA/videos

>>14072283
The Ecclesiastical History of the English People by Venerable (St.) Bede

>>14075413
>>14075449
>>14075478
>>14075487
Thank you

>>14072283
The Book of Mormon
The Doctrine and Covenants
The Pearl of Great Price

>>14076183
Not quite what I'm looking for, but I'll keep them in mind to read in general anon

>>14075487
bede wrote in latin

>>14076183
>promoting a false gospel
Yikes.
Galatians 1:8
>But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

>>14077018
you literally just did the stereotypical christcuck joke
>our book is the only true book
>what do you mean, why? it says so in our book

Anglican is absolutely fascinating, the war between the Anglo-Catholic and Reformed factions within the Church has been raging on for hundreds of years. If the Caroline Divines had been Popist /lit/ would have been praising them to high heaven.

>>14072283
>King James Bible

god help you...

>>14072283
Geneva > King James

>>14077065
You can't get more aesthetic than the ACC, they use the 1611 KJV and the 1547 Books of Homilies.

>>14077088
well that's what matters isn't it, the aesthetics. If you are a larper that is

>>14077117
Correct aesthetics are important, they bring us closer to God, people are naturally drawn to beauty.

>>14077088
well that's what matters isn't it, the aesthetics. If you are a larper that is

>>14077117
>>14077134
Ya'll Negroids have a very, very limited understanding of aesthetics if you believe usage of the word is limited to "art".

The Hind and the Panther by John Dryden
The Day of Doom by Michael Wigglesworth
The Dream of Gerontius by St. John Henry Newman
The Wanderings of Oisin by W. B. Yeats

>>14077142
t. papist

>>14077057
Mormons use the Bible too you fucking idiot.

>>14077086
>Geneva > King James
They are like 95% the same

>>14072283
>wants to read older english christians work
Honestly learn old english and go wild. Youll get a lot more out of it if you, methinks.

>>14077086
I’ve heard they’re mostly the same, and since KJVs are abundant and cheap while Geneva’s are more niche that’s what I’m going for right now. What are the advantages, you would say, of the Geneva over the KJV?
>>14077088
>1547 Books of Homilies
That’s one I should read
>>14077283
Thank you very much, all of these look so very fascinating
>>14077343
Well, the main reason I asked is cause Early Modern English is the closest thing to an ancient language I can read with ease without having to rely on translations or spending time learning a full different language. I’ve already read Shakespeare and I’m not too interested in the legal philosophical debates of the time. There was a big boom of great Christian lit made at the time, and I’d like to read all of it

>>14072283
Orthodox man here, read these if you have interest in the faith.
>The Orthodox Study Bible
>A Pilgrim's Way
>The Desert Fathers
>Thimothy Ware's The Orthodox Way and The Orthodox Church
>Fr. Seraphim Rose's Religion of the Future, and other works

>>14079048
I got a few of those (OSB, Pilgrim, Timothy Ware, possibly the desert fathers lying around somewhere) but this isn’t quite what I’m looking for. Thank you though

>>14079094

>>14078908
The Geneva is written (typically) in plainer english, they also have footnotes. The footnotes were the reason King James didn't like it, because in the book of Daniel it encourages alliance with God over alliance with the king. The olde englishe spellingse can bea a bitte difficulte at times, and the additional characters they have are tricky (also they didn't have the letter J so thats goofy) but after you read it for a few hours it becomes as fluid as anything else. RN i am looking at a nice leather bound facsimile of the 1599 edition, links below if you want to check it
https://www.christianbook.com/1560-edition-genuine-leather-protestant-reformation/9781598562132/pd/562132?event=AAI#CBD-PD-Description

>>14079157
Give me one reason to convert to Orthodox as a die hard prottie

>>14076259
I think there's value to reading them even if you feel unconvinced by all of it. If you see them as works by Joseph Smith instead of God, you still get an insight into very creative English theology. Sometimes, you can see it as a creative expression meant to answer serious theological concerns, for example Moroni 8 with the question of child baptism, or D&C 76 more generally about salvation or later LDS theology on salvation for the dead. I think this is generally true of many of the heterodox prophet-guided Christian denominations, but Mormonism is no-doubt the richest when it comes to theological ground covered, originality, and systematicity. You can learn a lot from people who are wrong.

>>14079592
Bluntly speaking if you're not interested in historicity, tradition, introspection, dogma, mysticism, or very down to earth but structured christianity, then there's no point. In the modern day there is such a lack of humility, respect for suffering, and introspection. Orthodoxy fills those holes that liberalism and western materialism has created. Institutions like confession, catechism, and Ikon veneration all make mortality more concentrated. Without those things, most people will wonder their life without the logos and direction. There are no papal decrees or rapist priests, and it is solely because of traditions that the faith has survived. If you have any questions please let me know, I find that there are lots of western Christians who subconsciously adhere to Orthodox thought but just haven't been exposed to it.

>>14079720
how would you contend with an accusation in the vain of, isn't pursuit of historicity and tradition the same as the pursuit of vanity? To some extent all things are vanity, yet this seems like a rather crucial and extreme pursuit of vanity, instead of pursuing virtue and wisdom and Godly behaviors.

>>14079738
>in the vein of
just so no one thinks im a complete brainlet

>>14079720
Don't delude yourself. There is still plenty of abuse in the Orthodox Church.

>>14079738
Why would you compare historical tradition to vanity? I don't a lot of people understand the differences between theological orthodoxy and cultural orthodoxy. Sure there are some people who are prideful, but there are also people who are prideful about speaking tounges, seizing in a megachurch, and sexual hedonism. In Orthodoxy the only prideful things usually stem from a person's nation or heritage, and usually keep the faith pretty separate. At its core I think the Church is more interested wisdom and faith, which tradition sustains. For example, extreme fasting and asceticism are prevalent in Orthodoxy, a concept completely alien to protestantism. Looking weekly, and in most cases daily, at the saints, learning to do without, and stemming away from the positivism associated with western Christianity, in my opinion creates a wiser person. That's not to say there aren't pious Catholics and Protestants, or that all Orthodox Christians are wise, but the traditions of the Church cement the suffering and humility necessary to understand God.

>>14079834
well I would equate, and I am deriving this from Ecclesiates just so you dont think I am talking out of my ass, vanity with anything that is not the pursuit of Gods unadulturated word, and anything that would interfere with reception of Gods truth, which is to say Gods word (which is truth.) And I feel that when it isn't in the language of the people (and I am not saying that I draw no contention with translations at all) that it would hinder reception, understanding, and growth in Gods word and truth, because there wouldn't be any real access to that word, for it would be veiled behind a thick cutain of a language. For example if I asked you what was occuring at a given time - lets just say its your first time going to such a church - you would be lost, you wouldn't know if your confessing your sins or asking forgiveness, or if where the text being spoken is derived from, or what it means. I think that is my biggest confusion. How does the whole different language element work itself out, without becoming the vice of vanity.

>>14079877
But see, that's where our perception of Christianity differs. The West uses the bible axiomatically, as if it were a codification of laws or legal system - it's based on judgement, punishment, and reward. Where Orthodoxy, because of its hatred of material legalism, prefers to look at the bible as a way of life or thought. It isn't enough to just to objectify a list of sins and threaten people with hell, because God is mysterious but he is also knowable. That was one of the key factors of the Schism, the West was so caught up in making the bible into a codification of laws, that it has practically become an ideology rather than a faith. Also, all Orthodox converts must go through Catechism in order to take part in confession, communion, etc. Even if you were just an Inquirer you would be able to pick up the traditions pretty easily. As for language, most churches in anglophile countries have english services, in fact Orthodoxy was the first Church to write the scripture in other peoples languages.

>>14080010
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.- John 1:1 wouldn't you agree that such a passage lends itself more to the western view of the bible, and less so the eastern? Since God is the word, and the word is God, then in order to follow God (in his way, in his light, and in his will - ideally) you would have to follow his word as well? This makes sense, for God does not communicate with us through feats of power or shows of force, he used to in the Old Testament, but no longer, and we have to contend with the fact that we don't know why he doesn't. So the only way to know what God wants for us is by reading Him, by reading His word, which is Him. I would also put forth that the protestant faith realized the extreme vanity of the catholic faith, which placed nearly all of the importance on material deeds and works, and that is why we schismed from them, because we believe that (and this probably aligns fairly close to the orthodox belief) we are not saved by any of our own means; only by faith in Jesus Christ. Faith which is granted us, not by our own volition, but by the Holy Spirit, that entered us through baptism. I think my greatest issue is the "knowing God," human perception is extremely faulty, human reason is extremely limited, that is why we yield to faith, which is essentially admitting to the unknown, or (if you wish to incite kiekegaard) faith is a teleological suspension of the ethical, which is to say what you are about to do is NOT reasonable at all (killing your only son, whom you love) but yet you continue with the action (yielding to a higher power, that we cannot fathom or comprehend.) Also how would you explain that God appears in forms only, and that the few who saw his true nature and self, literally fucking died, those who truly knew God, had to perish with their knowledge, or perhaps with their sin. Although I do concede to you my eastern brethren, your choral works are on par with bachs cantatas.

>>14080099
1. Thanks fren
2. The knowing of God is impossible because he is both known and unknown, he - and our faith - will lead us through darkness and disillusionment in order to show us light.
3. You're still attaching philosophical comparisons to the Word. Faith and works are still codependent, and you'd be correct - we have to separate our flesh from our true self that was intended under God, and the best way we know how is through scripture. However, instead of focusing on philosophical interpretations of the Bible, Orthodoxy stresses that God is too mystical for a lay person to understand without the spiritual guidance of a priest. Most of our works are doing without, we focus on the death of passions (rather than eliminating something specific like nameable vices). It is once we kill ourselves to the world, that scripture is actualized.
4. As for the sight of God, this is one of my sincere objections to Protestantism, because there is a large trend of lay people thinking they're modern apostles or have directly talked with God. There are very few of us worthy enough to speak to God, and those who are would probably be too ethereal - or forbidden - to tell us about God's mystical form. This distinction is made in Ware's book, there is a difference between essence and energies.
5. Finally, if you're really interested in the theology, your local Orthodx priest would be way more informative, it would be impious of me to act like I can give you direct and known answers.

Anyone got anymore reading recs?

>>14079048
>>14079592
>>14079720

Protestantism is imploding

>>14081050
Hippity hoppity get off my holy apostolic tradition

>>14072283
>>William Blake’s complete works
blake is great but i dont think reading him 'as a christian' is worth doing

>>14080296
1. yw brother
2. I vibe that
3. I would say that works and faith aren't codependant in the way that you are insinuating. That a work as evidence of faith is a good thing, but only because of the faith. And a work that is void of evidence of faith, even if it is 'good' in our earthly, limited human sense of good, is still 'bad' in Gods eyes, because it is a work done to glorify man, not to glorify God, as a work of faith is done to glorify God.
4. I have not spoken to many outside of my protestant church, but speaking from that limited data set, I do not believe such things are problems, or at least exceptional to the protestant faith. The evangelical faith, which you may be inadvertantly referring to, does speak of 'talents' given to its followers, such as speaking in tongues, and interpreting tongues, and all other sorts of vanity that we would both rejoice in condemning. I don't think I have met a prottie who thinks they have spoken with God, but I do agree with you that it would be a problem if such a person were under a false belief as that.
5. I may consider doing that, I am not really considering converting, but an better understanding of a thing is always best. I am not at all discontented in my faith, but I feel I wouldn't be discontented with orthodoxy. I relate to most of the tenets, and on the whole it does not seem too far off. If anything during our discourse I have gained nothing but respect for brothers of the faith, and such is a rare occurance, for many a time will I despair to hear a catholic or baptist or some other denomination speak, for I do not agree with them on some of the most fundamental of levels, and I fear for their souls. But you, brother, I do not fear for your soul, and we will worship together in eternity someday.
>>14081050
we were having such a nice discourse, and ou had to destroy any chance you had at fostering new understanding and love of your fellow christian. We all have much more in common than you would like to believe. I was not at all attacking his faith, and he was simply addressing some inquisitions of mine, on a topic I can find little on, and know little about; he was being a good shepard, and I see that you, my brother, are the evil one, come to drag the little ones astray. It would be better for you to be cast into the ocean with a millstone about your neck than to corrupt the little ones.

>>14081073
Best of luck fren, I would thoroughly recommend Thimothy Ware's Orthodox way, it's short and the staple introductory text. If you visit a church, I hope it is a good experience! I am sure we will meet in the heavenly kingdom.

>>14072283
I think the anglosphere got very blessed because they did the most carrying forth the gospel of Jesus Christ than any other factions in the history of men. Which is why I think God gave us such a beautiful English translation that is the KJV. He obviously knew it was going to be the biggest language spoken by over 2 billion people and he wants sinners to get saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce5pw744H-c&t=

So no more book suggestions then? Aight, it was a productive thread though. Thank you to everybody who was helpful

>>14072283
Douay-Rheims Bible
Lord of the Rings
Various works of Chesterton
Biography of St. Alfred the Great / St. Oswald
A work on the civil war / glorious revolution

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH8abrEX8Ug
Comfy video.