/lit/ - Literature

I will post a sample to get the thread started. I wrote about a dream I had for an exercise in The Portable MFA (I believe).

The dog is angered. The three giant men, mannequin’s standing upright on their strings, begin to swing their arms and chase. I am already in the car. I roll over the axis of the earth, the hump of its back keeps me just out of reach as it rolls forward. I do not know when I will arrive, but I know I cannot gain or lose ground. It is all electric yellow lights, jumping over buildings and slapping against their doors.
Now I am in the gymnasium with the clown who wears a black suit with white polka-dots. He holds out a single red balloon on a black waxy handle. I accept. His mouth forms an ‘O’. I look past the white paint covering his lips. He holds his hands at the waist, where he cannot see them, and begins to twist the intricate arch. It makes no sound as he pulls and turns, the sagging studs jumping forward full of air. He sings for me. His voice is like a theremin and he is crying. His wordless song is about me. It is my song, or what I would be were I a song. My face is in the arch with his. I wake at this.

i wrote these while having a hungover afternoon breakfast/lunch alone at burger king

bits that dancers lost
left as muck to rot
sticky on his knees
kneeled on the floor of
the morning the joiner

the nightclub light-
fixer the wizard who
fixes the swamp
while it's lifeless
and unopened

and puts songs into
lightbulbs with his
knees in the glass
that nights he wasn't
invited to left broken

/

and this is still
the same street
so much life it has

it is lifeless
and we are just
men in windows

above it
watching last night
dying slowly

on this carpet

i'm trying to better my English but I find myself using the same words many time what the fuck should I do?

>>14069284
Hello anon, thank you for your contribution to the thread.
First, I like the sounds of this poem which make it feel gummy and grounded; words like 'swamp, sticky, muck, rot, lost, and knees'. It feels very closed off, but a bit bouncy. The next poem has a lot of sibilants in it; words like 'this, is, still, same, street, so, has, lifeless, just, windows, last, and slowly. As such it drags along in a pleasant way which I think is somewhat like reminiscing with a hangover.
What I don't like in these poems is the lack of rhyme or meter. If the poem is more compact and open ended, which I think these are due to their lack of distinct narrative continuity and focus on word sounds, than they should generally strive towards meter and rhyme as it makes them feel more potent, it will also help you organize the way in which the reader hits the poetic 'notes'. There could also be a stronger focus on poetic image. There are a lot of vague descriptions here, 'bits that dancers lost' (what are the bits? what are they made of?) and, 'the morning the joiner' (the joiner what? Why this morning?). There are several moments of language that feels wrong, and not poetically wrong, but ungrammatically off. For example, 'he wasn't invited to left broken' What does that mean? Even if the meaning is that there is no meaning there should be something there. On that note I don't think saying nothing to say something is very potent or enjoyable.
The second poem is very faint until the last full stanza. Why say, 'so much life it has it is lifeless'? It has a stagnation to it, and I think it jams the reader with a compulsory double-take. There are cleaner ways and more poetic ways to communicate that the street is lifeless. There is also some grammatical vagueness in the last two lines. Are they on the carpet watching the last night dye slowly or is the last night dying slowly on the carpet? Think about what image you are trying to convey with 'dying slowly on this carpet' if it is something concrete, like a poisoned dog or a gasping fish or a hooker with a plastic bag over her head go with that instead, it will bring the poem to a close on a firm picture of the night and lend meaning to the ambiguity that surrounds it.
Once again, thanks for the contribute, feel free to ask anything for more or for clarification on what is here.

>>14069342
One thing you could do is study a grammar and usage guide like The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language. Another thing you can try is analysis of short stories. Look at the way Cheever or Carver introduce a topic and do a word count of things that are repeated. However, word repeating a word isn't always bad. If the word is plain and common it probably wont be noticed or if the word is something like a determiner or a preposition than don't worry about it.
In this excerpt I don't notice any over usage of a particular word, feel free to point out what it is specifically that is bothering you or that you think you are repeating too much. What I do notice are the lapses in grammar like in your post, 'I am trying to better my English' which should be, 'I am trying to get better at writing English' or, 'I am trying to improve my grammar.' There is another lapse in the picture when you write, 'Truth to be said' which should be 'Truth be told' or 'To tell you the truth.' Again with, 'sometimes it's better like this, because if I had answered with...' which would be better as, 'It's better this way. If I spoke he would have known.' There is just to much equivocating here. Too much trying to explain the process and not enough of explaining the purpose, getting to the point I mean. Try shortening the paragraphs down to the basic information like...
"My friend Dave could hear lies. He would ask me questions and I would nod my head. I didn't nod intentionally, but I don't talk with my mouth full and we usually got together over lunch. He asked me if I knew his niece, so I nodded. He told me how she died and I nodded."
Thanks for the contribution anon, if you have more questions feel free to ask.

>>14069474
This is really useful anon, thanks for your time, I'm thinking of reading "An Introduction to English Grammar" by Greenbaum & Nelsom once I have free time, your comments were really helpful

The scariest aspect of reality is that infinity exists and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I've psyched myself out too many times thinking about this horrid fact. Then, like some sick carnival game, it twirls around and warps in on itself. The very fact that I am thinking about infinity adds one more object onto the pile. It's more than infinity, then. It's growing in a way no primitive mind can comprehend.
Yes, our sad and dripping brains can only attend to one, or two items from the endless array. Sometimes we notice the concept of endlessness itself, but we compact it, and miss it's true nature. I don't, I don't think. Or, I have that concept crawling across the back of my skull, gnawing, while I attend to other things.
I can recall a tale I've once heard. I'm no story-teller, so I'll state the facts. It was about a camel in the desert. The camel, empty-gutted and weary, saw ahead of him a lush and grassy oasis. Before bolting towards it with it's last charge of strength, it scanned the horizon for potential contenders. To its surprise it spied another lush oasis. Here's the conundrum. Both fields were of equal distance from the camel. Not knowing which path to take, as both were indistinguishable, it sat still, and baked like bread under the arid sun. This is, I suppose, how I feel. I'll posit that my case is worse, however, as I am attracted to almost every thing out there. Nothing bores me.
In school I took to painting. This was before I broke my mind over the infinite. Colors and lines and shapes were all quite satiating. I needed nothing else. But, the more I learnt the more things expanded. Texture; then light; then form and figure; then, discard it all and take to violently slamming the canvas; then, apologize and brush it gently with measured strokes; become a maximalist, and stuff the canvas full; become a minimalist and let the canvas be. It was around then I learnt about poetry, and literature.
The damned fiend! He brought me to the library, lured me in and sprung the trap. An unceasing tower of paper. Each containing its own unceasing tower of print. And, from each page and each line of print, an unceasing tower of knowledge. Facts, and figures, and data, and words. Then, the bastard, told me each person can interpret the same book in a million ways. It was too much for me. I saw it all. The data, the connections, like strings tying up the room. My mind. The human brain. The ultimate purveyor of complexity. The progenitor of infinity.

>>14069818
First, there isn't much going on here. I mean that there is little action, just the character (yet unnamed to the reader) pondering infinity. Why does he do this? Who is 'the damned fiend'? Why should the reader care what this character thinks about infinity? The entire excerpt depends upon the reader finding this tirade about infinity interesting or novel. He moves through his expository dump while equivocating in the way you would expect a college freshman to after taking intro to philosophy (no offense to you, I assume that this is the character speaking and that this is a conscious choice. But why?) and then he gives us his college experience.
My point, I don't want to sound too negative, is that there needs to be some movement or there needs to be more impactful thought and language. Most people would advise against the latter since it comes across as all flash no substance. This is true but something like the beauties by Chekov is very little in the way of action and plot but much in the way of thought and lyricism and it works.
Also, the tone of the piece is all over the place. It starts like a raving homeless stoner and gradually changes into a dandy and then a freshman taking stock of the courses available to him before selecting a major. There are too many tangents, give us one selection of thoughts. Cut the painting, camel, and classes and focus only on infinity if that is what you want to talk about. It will allow you to build towards a more defined character and place his understanding in a more conscious mold. The more he moves around the more uncertain the reader is of the character, in a bad way (in case you are aiming for a stream of consciousness in the addled mind narrative, which if that is the case still has the problem of lacking definitive characterization and actionable narrative).
Another note on structure, the sentences often have a three beat form. They move, from here, to there. This creates a monotonous repetition which is best avoided by varying sentence structure more often. It isn't that you don't vary the lengths, but that there are so many three part sentences. One way to get past this is to think about what the sentence says at the most basic level, "Then, like some sick carnival game, it twirls around and warps on itself,' can become, 'It warps on itself,' which can be cut because it is more a loose clause from the previous sentence than its own thought, as it is subordinated by the following and previous sentences about infinity being endless and that thinking about it grows it. I would suggest you cut the whole lot and boil down what you want to say to its necessities.
"The scariest aspect of reality is infinity (Is it though, I think the forces of death and pain are scarier). I often think this, and then realize that the act has itself added to the sum. I cannot comprehend it. I am staring at an unending peak of possibilities and am unable to choose a path."
Thank you for contributing.

>>14069818
>>14070030
2/2
I would suggest reading Borges The Library of Babel and Notes From the Underground by Dostoyevsky as they both in separate ways play a similar tune to your excerpt.
I ran out of space in the last post before I could finish revising the excerpt in total, but I think that cutting it down to just the idea of infinity and the way it perturbs this character is enough. Most of the text is finding a way to say the same thing in another way, i.e. the camel analogy. Move forward, show how this knowledge affects his life and his interaction with others. Notes From the Underground quickly moves into how underground man hurts himself and how he makes people around him angry. He is also self aware and intriguingly self-conflicting character, and the language with which he speaks speaks for him as much as he does. Feel free to ask further questions, as always, and once more, thank you for contributing to the thread.

"The scariest aspect of reality is infinity. I often think this and then realize the act has itself added into that swelling sum. I cannot comprehend it. I am staring at an unending path of possibilities and cannot choose my direction, for they are all indistinguishable. I account for this by saying nothing bores me. Not painting, not literature, not even myself."
Why did I cut it this way? First, I cut to remove listing which greatly plagues the final paragraphs. Second, I was compelled to cull the camel, it was only taking up space where something should have been. Thirdly, I merged and boiled the first two paragraphs into something which would get the gist of this characters trouble across without assaulting the reader before learning the man's name, or his location, or his occupation, or his safety, or his love life, or anything else which is more immediate and pressing to the narrative than what he thinks of infinity.
However, if conveying this concern of infinity is so infinitely important to you reply with your intentions for the piece and I would be fine working out a way to engineer the importance of your theme into a more manageable form. Questions are always welcome in the thread, and I don't want you to think my opinion of your piece is definitive (only that it is not entirely unfounded and here to help).

I will be gone for about 8 hours, but if you leave anything here (this is to everyone lurking as well) I will check it out and reply in the morning.

>>14069182
The Great Linkara and the Great Iron Liz was there.
"It'll be out when it's out." We like that, folks. But really, great work ethic.

>>14069182
Hey. Would appreciate any feedback on this short story. It's about 3.4k words so I don't mind if you don't read it all. Thank you.

https://pastebin.com/x8R45Ecd

>>14071047
I read it all anon, thank you for your contribution (doubly so, since it was in pastebin which is easy access).
Firstly, there is a lot of telling instead of showing. I suspect that this could be boiled down to five pages or less by chopping out superfluous descriptors and sentences that describe movement without moving the narrative. It isn't that there aren't images included in the story or that some of them aren't striking but that there is a lack of honest images, descriptions taking place outside of Osto. The piece is in third but it has a copious amount of the free indirect. So much that you might consider doing it in first if you want to keep more of it (I don't actually suggest this however, I think it is better to make the cuts and be concise).
I like the character of Osto, at least what I get from him. He is a small, nervous, and caring chap. Very spindly and jittery. We could use more motivation however, we know that Osto wants to get back to the clouds but we don't know why. We know that he finds life on the ground hard and unfair but we don't know if he is actually an ex-loon or if he has only become naive after spending so much time with his head in the clouds.
A definitive problem, one not for argument I would say, is that the story doesn't end. It does not conclude with the passing up of his opportunity or the salvation of the crazies or drunks or bums. We don't see Osto getting back to the clouds and we don't see these men saved. Also the pull back to the homelss man seemed out of place and practically impossible for Osto to accomplish without a spyglass. It is also hard to believe that even in his condition Osto has formed any kind of bond with this crazed and possibly violent madman. Either the relationship should be expanded to companionship and the role of the single homeless man should be extended or you should abandon the idea. I resolutely argue that you should fuse the two homeless/loons into one character. Generally there is only room for one to three 'characters' in a short story, this allows you some time to explore character without miring yourself in too many bodies. When you go over, fuse those that can be fused. This happens a LOT in family stories brought into workshop.
I like the atmosphere (no pun intended) and think there are a few things you can focus on to improve on it. One, intercut the story with the sky more often. Think about it like Battleship Potemkin and the cuts to the lion statue as the revolution progresses. Second, focus on the ticking clock narrative device. This could be a rule for Welkins that fall, once you've hit the ground there is only so much time until the clouds move leaving you trapped so you must keep an eye on the time. This can give Osto a new device, a pocket watch, in place of the pencil which has no real affect on the story. Now if the watch gets destroyed he has no way to know when it is too late, this will speed pace and ratchet up the tension.

>>14071047
>>14072056

Okay, here is a wright up I did of the first few pages as an example of the changes I am looking for. It doesn't have to be THIS sparse, but it gets the story moving much faster while stressing the agency of Osto in his own life. I note it in the pastebin but you should be more careful with tense, there are times you jump from past to present in a sentence which makes the story feel d odd. This was a brief wright up and not meant to be definitive in any way, I just wanted to give you an example of what I am looking for when I am reading so you have some evidence for what I mean.
https://pastebin.com/H4HGCGG6
Feel free to ask anything else and to critique others in the thread. Thank you for your contribution anon, good luck and keep writing.

>>14072056
>>14072161
Phenomenal critiques, guys. Seriously some of the best and most thoughtful I've ever received. I was going to counter and back up what I wrote and discuss all of this, but honestly I just want to edit and work with what you've directed me to do. Excellent.

>>14072322
It was only me anon, this thread is moving rather slow so the anons who post here get my full attention. I'm glad the critique has helped you.

>>14072322
>>14072056
I should also add that I'm thankful, even if the writing if faulty in quite a few places, that at least some of my themes and messages got across in this story. I really appreciate that you took the time to try and understand it. Osto is indeed a character who once was like the homeless man. He ascended to the clouds, somehow, and now lives in an "ideal" realm of creativity, if that makes sense. Osto's naivete is indeed a result of his spending so many years in the clouds. He thinks the homeless man is another unbound and passionate soul when he is in fact talking of suicide for having been worked too hard. There are obviously more examples here of the sort of thing I was going for, but I won't labour it. Once again, great critique.

Also, it's a first draft. I can't remember if I said that on paste bin. Not excusing bad writing in places, but it's certainly a WIP.

Just to be brutally honest since you took the time, I feel like I should add more to the discussion. A reccuring thought I had when reading the crit is that I had many of the same realisations as you, for example how it'd be difficult to see the homeless man and how I could expect the reader to seriously believe that Osto feels sorry for him after so little interaction--and yet I didn't do anything about it. I have to push myself, especially when I know something isn't right, but I just don't do it. It's probably sheer laziness. I also thought that the the inclusion of the "victim in the gutter" out shadows the homeless man and that his inclusion makes cheapens the ending scene, like he's an afterthought. And yet I still kept him in. I think it's because I have a hard time cutting passages I've already written. There are plenty more valid crits you gave, such as the pencil being superfluous, other than that it singles a connection to his life in the clouds and his being a writer. There is also just generally not much real motivation for Osto and we don't really know what the welkin realm is like. And on and on and on. Once again, thanks.