/lit/ - Literature

>>14054871
>Now Sing, yet not from any muse; repose

>>14054910
Kind of confusing, but I like how it sounds; it commands power.

Did you get that pape from my thread about crying when i saw a couple?

>>14054871
holdfarst, compania; servo me til spring's sleet and then: death gen the hearst, beg of you tovera.

>>14054973
probably would make sense with the following lines

Now Sing, yet not from any muse; repose
Is needed, bright Byzantium fell, razed
By Turkish hands in the year fifty-three
fifteenth cent’ry A.D – twin Ilium
In wait beyond the Bosporus that clashed,
Await for this here dirge of death to close,
And for the city to seep sleep, and snows
To fall, as fall does come to close the song.

>>14054990
Anon, I think that a line goes as far as the point goes. You should have posted that whole excerpt in the first place.
Regardless of that, I am very happy to see someone writing an epic story with the proper formatting for it. I don't think I'd ever met anyone here before who was in the process of doing that.
How's the experience been so far?

>>14054871
It was a dark and stormy night...

A collection of writings where found in Robert Schreiber’s house.

>>14055019
Is the "where" intentional?

>>14055002
Funnily enough I only started a few weeks ago, and it had been fantastic! I've never been so invigorated to write, and have already planned the content of each book/part. Writing it is a special kind of hard, mainly because I'm not used to drawing out a topic and poetry out so much.
I'm just thrilled to have actually begun, and do hope that it will push us into that Epic renaissance we're teetering on.

I didn't just want to have it focus entirely on the fall of Constantinople, so Book 1 is an introduction type deal, setting up "basic" context and the foundation, up to Book 2 which will be the 4th crusade, then the subsequent books being the fall itself

>>14054871
This is too boring of a descriptions of the desert. If it’s YA, it’s not colorful enough; if it’s for adults, it’s neither intellectually nor poetically engaging enough. The idea itself is solid.

>>14055011
based 10/10

>>14055028
no, it was "were" sorry

>>14055032
Good to hear anon! and good luck!

>>14055049
In that case, it's not bad. I actually find it intriguing and it makes me picture an old house with an alluring mystery lurking beneath. Good line, anon.

Today I left my wife.

>i hate niggers.
its edgy and stupid, but i actually want people to read it, so

>>14055040
I didn't intend to describe the desert as much as the impression that it causes on the main character; it's a way to establish how insignificant she feels compared to the world around her. However, I get your point.
With my intent in mind, what would you consider a more appropriate way to convey that idea?

>>14055032
That actually sounds pretty interesting. This is the first case of contemporary epic poetry I have heard of in my life (which probably means that I'm uncultured) and I had always hoped that someone would rescue it.
I am very glad to know that your feelings towards your work are so strong. Which epics would you say are your most prominent influences, if you don't mind me asking?
Regardless, I wish you nothing but the best of fortune in this endeavor.

>>14055079
Thanks, that's what I wanted to convey.

>>14055111
Just because they happen to be my favourite (and because they're among the few I have) Paradise lost, and Chapman's Homer, but I wish to read more epics to get a better feel for the range, I've practised a lot with Iambic Pentameter, so I'm confident I can write it. I also have looked at minor poets/will look at soon, Shakespeare of course - Julius Caesar is my favourite, and the issue of how the title of Caesar and Roman is passed on is one of the things I hope to cover in the Epic;the bible + Qur'an, they have some excellent imagery, and the conflict is between the two religions (somewhat); it really is just what I know to an extent, I've read widely, Dante, Virgil, Tolkien, Melville, just for some of my favourites as example, and what I've learnt there and between about the language is being poured into it. on a side note, I am teaching myself Latin as well, so rapidly I'm getting better grasps with grammar in both that in English.

>>14055227
I meant minor poets in the sense that they hadn't wrote epics

>>14054871
>The desert was wider than the eye could see and larger than the mind could conceive
I really love the opening clause anon. The latter half is good too but I feel rhythmically it would be more satisfying to have a one syllable word in place of "conceive." What that word could be only you can know.
>Is-Ashara, the nomad girl, felt awfully insignificant before it.
If you could parcel that "awfully insignificant" into a single adjective or perhaps a metaphor of some kind (something less clinical than insignificant, something awe inspiring, almost biblical) that would be even stronger.
Intriguing opening anon, I'd be interested to read the rest of it.

>>14055227
An expansion of the Chapman's homer, just because it riles people: I have Pope's, chapman's, and the loeb edition. I don't own it but have also read the penguin translation.
And because of the breadth, eloquence, and convenience of doing so, I'm using Edward Gibbon for much of the historical/factual side

>>14054871
The shadow of Oorun towered in the mist, his eyes gazing eastward.

>>14055227
>he issue of how the title of Caesar and Roman is passed on is one of the things I hope to cover in the Epic
I love the concept of cultural continuity and inheritance; that alone makes me want to read your work.
But, goddamn, you are the real deal, aren't you? I can see that you are really putting all the meat in the grill for this poem and I can say this without any facetiousness; I fully admire your dedication to your work on this piece. Based just on what you are telling me I can state with confidence that the final product will be great. Of course, there are many variables in the composition of any art piece, specially in something as ambitious as this, but even with that knowledge, you have made me confident in your future success.
Keep up the good work, anon.

>>14055245
>>14055227
One more, just so I'm not spamming the thread:
Earlier today I finished reading The new Jerusalem Bible - then ordered the KJV bible, along with complete keats and a complete W. Wordsworth, and (an obscure one) Gerard manly Hopkins

>>14054871
Your first line is fucking awful. You're commanding your reader to do the heavy lifting for you. Don't beat them over the head with what you want them to get out of your work, lead them to your conclusions, and if they don't get it then fuck them why do you want them reading your work anyway?

>>14055282
Thanks you!
encouragement makes me even more enthusiastic to write, and when I finish I hope it is as good as I've made it seem

>>14055227
>I've practised a lot with Iambic Pentameter
how the fuck do you get the iambs down when using single syllable words? i never know if a single syllable word is stressed or not

>>14055234
>What that word could be only you can know.
How about:
>The desert was wider than the eye could see and larger than the mind could span
>>Is-Ashara, the nomad girl, was just one more grain of sand.
I tried giving the metaphor idea a go and I managed to make an accidental rhyme. I guess that Byzantine poem affected me more than I thought.
Thanks for the feedback; I really appreciate it.

>>14055254
You seem to be seeing up Oorun as an imposing figure; as far as character establishing moments go, it's nice and subtle, but I think that it could use some more flavor.

>>14055337
setting up*

>>14055329
Much better, you have a good ear. Have a play around with it, see if there's anything else you can discover, then settle on whatever flows best for you.

>>14055306
with English there are alternating stress patterns, but this doesn't really matter, single-syllable words can be either according to meter. HOWEVER, if it does fuck with the flow even then, try to think of it like breve and longum (short and long), realm is what can be considered longum, and is stressed, but row is breve, unstressed.
take the first line I posted "now sing" is an iamb, because although they're both mono-syllabic, sing is distinctly a longum. makes sense?

>>14055366
Here:
Longum, long - Realm, dance, caught
breve, short - and, but, then, such, done, e.t.c

it's a slight difference, and is really just stressed/unstressed in another guise, but it helped me when I started out - eventually you just get a sense for it

>>14055366
not him but thats great to learn. shit i'd love to learn more about iambic pentameter

>>14054871
A screaming fart comes across the room. It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now. It is too late. The Evacuation still proceeds...

>>14055364
Now I don't know whether editing the novel is going to be a fun ride or tedious as all hell as I try to figure out how to make it sound better. Well, no one said writing was easy; all the contrary, actually.
Thanks, once again.

>>14055227
I strongly recommend Tasso's "Jerusalem Delivered" - a great epic, and one with a narrative similarity to yours, being a battle of the infidels against the christians
By the way, you say there is an impending epic renaissance? I personally wish that to be true, but why do you think so?
>>14054990
I suggest changing the words "fifty-three / fifteenth cent'ry AD" - exact dating fits belong properly into the realm of prose, and it has a bit of a nursery rhyme quality to it
Also, would you like to post more of it? I would love to read the whole thing

Stupefying loneliness, heart shrouded in blackness, sick moon.

>>14055380
Yeah it's great fun. Even before I started to write the epic, I did mess around with other meters. The traditional Greek meters like dactylic hexameter (the one the epics are in) are technically feasible in English, but inordinately harder due to English having fixed stresses on words, when Greek+Latin have flexible stress patterns, the same can be said for Sapphic meter.

Here's the sapphic I tried:
Birthed of loins Saturnus’; blood and foam-born,
Bubbled up Ourania cosmic – Oh Queen!

I didn't get far, but I managed to fit the opening of the epic to dactylic hexameter:
Poetry! Spectacle of Muse, quote hence these words-spill – now SING;
Battle rage ‘cross fields, a-cross fatherland’s tragedy’d spin,
How Turks besieged the year fifty-third - fourteenth century proper, -
Brought bright Byzantium doom.

>>14055366
so basically there is wiggle room for monosyllabic words? where i mostly get hung up is when i write something like "and then," which would be two successive breves. but then you read it out loud and you feel like you can stress the "then" by virtue of the combination of the two words into a sort of two-part/two-syllable single word where the second syllable "then" would be stressed. in short, you would pronounce it as "and THEN" rather than "AND then." but this doesn't seem to work for all monosyllabic breves, for example: "and of." i honestly don't know if you could stress either of these, they just seem like they both need to be unstressed.

>>14055412
I like this composition of imagery; it's potent stuff. I admit that some people would call it edgy, but I'm kind of a sucker for this sort of stuff. Enumerations that evoke different images meant to evoke a diffuse feeling in the reader are one of my favorite tools in writing; this is a good example of that.
I am now curious about which context you wish to integrate this into.

>>14055420
Exactly! there's a great deal of wiggle room, and with things like "and of" just have them as "one" syllable and the next be stressed, running over the ten-syllable quota isn't forbidden, nor is even changing it from an iamb to something else for a foot or two if you want. Even Shakespeare wouldn't rigidly follow the meter when he couldn't/didn't want to

Horror eternal stars descending madness ever consuming night never ending darkness enveloping void ever intoxicating sun, dead.

A loud bang. Darkness. Datta. Dayadhvam. Damyata. Shantih shantih shantih.

A lonely boy at a family picnic. Strangers of the past. Shall i remain and linger or must I let you go?

We used to drink coffee and circumambulate that rustic town. The pallid sky, Mr. David’s mechanic, and the many nights in my basement. The corpulent man bellowing at us. Call him pop. We defied it, but suddenly grew apart.

Menealeus you were to me, but as your brother I failed. Relieve that guard on watch the battle is over.

>>14055403
I was actually looking at Jerusalem delivered earlier (but was pressed for cash).

>>14055451
the best translation is on Gutenberg

>>14055403
Also, here's some more, Immediately were the last extract left off:
But what must fall did once rise; Lygos named
Before, was then abandoned a hundred years,
Resettled, and laid long nine-hundred more,
Fore final came Great Constantine August,
Imperator of the soft bridge, forebode
And heralded by fair Theotokos,
The Mother of the lord and saviour – Chi-Rho –
The sign which shall bring conquest. And it did.
That bridge fight fought, and battle won, an empire
Lay oped, a great rejig of the place was
In order. So, let me set us a scene…

>>14055440
that activates my autism tho

>>14055460
Yet just out the crisis of third cent’ry,
The year of our lord, burst out powerful
From Diocletian’s reign, chaos rose, supreme
Above Europe, with sounds of brass red-roared
In trumpet call, great gulphs of air wind dead
Did winnow through the chaff of men – such fate
Befell the much embellished enpyred –
Burnt empire – state. The disorder wasn’t
Long lain in state, but had prior come from
The crisis early that age fraught – which fought
The Roman arms with the gothic-borne hoard
Of vi’lence, thwarted ‘n dammed by newly crowned
AVRELIANVS ~ RESTITVTOR ORBIS ~
(The Cæsar come again, a second birth)
For whom else’s birth and reign could allow
Such greatness? An emphatic way to put
That, would yet still be that ambition, (miss
No mark here, that I mean not canvassing votes)
A drive that drove his chariot riotous
All through the kingdom formed new in the land
Of Gaul, the empire rivalled only Rome;
For great afront was took in taken land,
With land no greater than that took by Cæsar;
Magnanimously rich, affluent, full
brim-bursting coffers golden ripe. T’was Gaul
and Gaul (Now France and Germany) was fertile.
Aurelian did conquer errant land,
But Rome did conquer him, as was Cæsar
cruel conquered by – the Senators blood thirsted,
And purple blood ran stinking cross Rome’s streets.
Such trait’rous bastard Romans were a plague
On good men’s rule – not just Aurelian’s
But add that sorrow to Majorian’s
Two hundred years, so later was this reign,
Yet fraught with similar fights – battles won,
Yet conquest lost to hands of the unclean,
To senators unworthy of even dross!

>>14055439
I actually just wrote that, but your comment on it makes me wanna continue, I just posted another line in this thread, would like to hear your thoughts on it too. I'm not a writer and I barely read enough to become one, its something I'll look more into when I have the time. En

I am a 32 years old clinically obese NEET and I catched turboAIDS from gay niggers from outer space, and yet I am the happiest living man.

>>14055416
fascinating. retard question here but how am i supposed to read the dactylic hexameter in english? what do i stress?

general question: are there other elements to poetic meters other than stress and, say, length of syllable? and if stress be not requisite, then what is the impact of poetic meters? is implicit musicality that comes in to effect?

>>14055470
I'm not happy with some parts, but this is yet only a first draft

>>14055477
nice.

>>14055479
Dactyllic looks like this:
— W | — W | ¬— W | — W | — VV | — X
— W | — W | — || — VV | — VV | X
— W | — W | ¬— W | — W | — VV | — X

The W can be either two short or one long, and the X is either. A hyphen is a set short/unstressed, and the VV is just a dactyll that cannot be changed into a Spondee (which is what the others being W represents)
If this formats correctly, the vertical line marks an end to a metrical foot, but not that second line having a doubled-up line, this is what is called (if I remember correctly) a diaeresis. This means, that beside this alternating between dactylic hexameter and dactylic pentameter, on the pentameter line - and EVERY ONE OF THESE - this main caesura occurs, at which no word may carry across, before this a word must end, and a new one starts after

>>14055473
I imagine you mean this >>14055446
That one is a bit of a harder sell, but once you read them together it provides an interesting experience. The rhythm you're marking here is going to make more than a few readers choke on your words.
The way you have structured it so far, it makes me think of a cadence exercise rather than a cohesive narrative. You could integrate some sort of story here, but it would be difficult.
It makes me feel a little sick reading it, which I don't necessarily see as a con. When I think of how Lovecraft describes monsters or ideas that the human mind can't keep up with I think he must mean something like this; confusing and unpleasant, but that makes it all the more fascinating.
I do fear that I wouldn't be able to read much of it unless you were really good at keeping an harmonic pace with all this madness. Because that's the idea I'm getting from this; the ravings of some madman. You could look further into it, but don't expect to appeal many people's tastes; the result would be experimental in the best case scenario.

>>14055460
>>14055470
I consider myself too inept to give you a proper analysis of this or to tell you something that you didn't know already, but from a purely emotional perspective, I have to say that this hit me hard.
I mean it, I began choking up a bit as I read and I'm not sure way; I felt the enthusiasm and energy of the poem building up inside me and that is a rare experience for me. Damn, did I feel the might in these words; whatever you are doing, you are doing it right.

>>14055550
I'm inspired by a particular piece of bataille's writing, and the fact it makes you sick makes me proud.

The lines I wrote I wrote with poetry in mind than a story, so I totally get what you're saying. I'll reply to this post with my effort to writing an opening line to a story

Once upon a midnight dreary...

>>14055594
I can't imagine anything good coming out of a first like line that; sorry, anon.

>>14055479
>>14055546
So meters do provide something other than stress, as seen by the diasresis, but they do more than this.
Meter can be seen in the most obvious form of rhyme, and this makes the flow easier, and gives the poetry a clearer structure. Which as I see it, is the point of poetry, being able to right pages of prose is all well and good, but can you achieve the same effect within these tight bounds - this is an excellent test of mastery of a language, and being able to work within these bounds is what makes poetry so much more sublime than prose. The meter is a way of containing the words, so they burst out ever fiercer at the reader - a way of regimenting them. Take war for example, organised soldiers strike harder than a disorganised rabble. Words within a meter are more powerful that any discordant stream of prose, but the meter should never restrict you, if you see that it gets in the way of effect, write over it, do not lessen yourself to uphold it. Very soon, with mastery, a poet will find he controls the meter, rather than it controlling him, like lined paper, he fills it, but writes as grandly as needs be within those rows, and for flair, makes the y stretch down the an O below!
I love language.

>>14055302
is there any other man more based than Diomedes?

>>14055583
You should be proud. I have respect for works that make the reader feel like shit intentionally.

>>14055580
This is quite frankly the best reception I've ever had, and has filled me with joy! This is what it is to be a writer, just getting that joy seeing others enjoy reading what you enjoyed as much to write!

>>14055603
>I can't imagine anything good coming out of a first like line that;
, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore—
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
“’Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door—
Only this and nothing more.”

Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December;
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow;—vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow—sorrow for the lost Lenore—
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore—
Nameless here for evermore.

Not a writer but just chiming in to say that this is a great thread and I genuinely enjoy reading this shit.

>>14055619
I admit that I have a tendency to be very explicit when praising something that I like; I'm not the best critic you could find nor the first one you should listen to. However, I do try to be as sincere as possible in my praise, and your work is worthy of it.
I'd better stop talking now before I suck your dick any further; it feels weird to be so positive in here.

>>14055619
tell me you are posting this shit somewhere, I have great interest in following it
>>14055302
Pope puts the incident very well:
>Young Xanthus next, and Thoon felt his rage;
>The joy and hope of Phaenops’ feeble age:
>Vast was his wealth, and these the only heirs
>Of all his labours and a life of cares.
>Cold death o’ertakes them in their blooming years,
>And leaves the father unavailing tears:
>To strangers now descends his heapy store,
>The race forgotten, and the name no more.

>>14055642
No no no, this is great, I've wrote a few lines in a matter of a minute or two - I've never been more enthused

>>14055653
I don't post anywhere really, I just write and show close friends - any idea where I could?

>>14055605
excellent stuff, my friend. i'd love to be a little on my way to mastering poetic meter. any poem recs for me to get my grips on iambic pentameter and dactyllic?

>>14055653
Man, now I regret not having read that translation before. I now believe that reading the Iliad in rhyme would be an emotionally exhausting ordeal, but worth it in the end.

Ruminating the void beneath the vast starry sky, the boy grew cold, sick, and weary, it even crossed his mind, that once upon a midnight dreary, a voice muttered "Only this and nothing more.”

>>14055583

>>14055612
Thanks man, any critique on the last one (post above)

>>14055669
Well, if you're not against reading longer poems paradise lost and chapman's homer are iambic (though the Iliad is in the Iambic heptameter not pentameter, odyssey is pentameter though) shorter works I'm afraid I can't actually say - I can't think of anyone exemplar to use

>>14055669
Dactyllic is harder, really only Latin and Greek poetry are in that meter (the most obvious being Epics like the Iliad and Aeneid) I'm sure if you just googled English dactylic hexameter something might come up though, I just researched the meter's technical side rather than seeking any actual examples in English

>>14055674
I mean, you just used the Raven right there. Even if I didn't know that, anyone could tell that the rhythm is completely different.

>>14055700
Yeah is that considered plagiarism? It felt fitting

>>14055668
dunno where you could post them, maybe a blog or something
or if you have any account on Discord or Plebbit etc., I would love to get in contact and talk about epic poetry
>>14055672
Pope's translation is one of the greatest works of English poetry, I say it ranks above Milton and Spenser - that Pope failed to write his own epic is one of the greatest tragedies of the human race
My favourite passage is this one, where Jupiter, observing the attack of the Trojans upon the Grecian fleet, assigns Hector to his fate:
>These fates revolved in his almighty mind,
>He raises Hector to the work design’d,
>Bids him with more than mortal fury glow,
>And drives him, like a lightning, on the foe.
>So Mars, when human crimes for vengeance call,
>Shakes his huge javelin, and whole armies fall.
>Not with more rage a conflagration rolls,
>Wraps the vast mountains, and involves the poles.
>He foams with wrath; beneath his gloomy brow
>Like fiery meteors his red eye-balls glow:
>The radiant helmet on his temple burns,
>Waves when he nods, and lightens as he turns:
>For Jove his splendour round the chief had thrown,
>And cast the blaze of both the hosts on one.
>Unhappy glories! for his fate was near,
>Due to stern Pallas, and Pelides’ spear:
>Yet Jove deferr’d the death he was to pay,
>And gave what fate allow’d, the honours of a day!

>>14055713
Yeah, I think it is. This one is just too blatant.

>>14055714
https://discord.gg/fhwBD2
fuck it dudes

>>14055752
https://discord.gg/u2z8wM2

this one won't expire - just in case

"Vell zhis can't be good" Dr. J. H. van Fresnel said toyingly.

>>14055731
True, agree about the rhythm being off.

Having been awakened by birds just before, now suffering of a running nose and an indigent mind, with no expectations for the present day other than those he once held before, his imagination followed him through a bland breakfast and then right back to bed.

Hammering nails upon his head, the man laughed and just said: "Leave me alone, you pig".

I"m on an edgy streak

>>14054871
The world, our world -- for it is indeed ours -- this vast oblate spheroid we are privileged to call our home, this wondrous wellspring of vita -- life -- this miraculous rock rotating at an angle as it travels round round a star, our incredible sun, in the Orion Arm of the Milky Way: the mere contemplation of it fills me with a joy that can only find expression in tears, which is why, at the outset of the tale that I will soon begin relaying, you will find me bleary-eyed, gazing at the night sky from my wrought iron Parisian balcony, indifferent to the chaos that has beset my neighborhood, for, though chaos is no laughing matter, my faith that goodness will prevail is such that only a full-scale war would have been able to distract me from my lofty thoughts.

>>14055817
I'm not fully sold on this one. I believe that it goes on for too long; an opening sentence should be more succinct and try to get a better grasp on the character. Also, and this is my opinion, so many iterations of "he" without stating your character's name might be misplaced here. I think that omitting the name would be more natural if the sentence wasn't so long, but as it is, it is easy to discern that the narrator is withholding his name. Which you can absolutely do, don't get me wrong, but you should try to be more subtle about it.
There is quite a bit of information here, which is good, but I think it should be delivered a tad faster without lacking in elegance. On the other hand, a semicolon would do wonders here as well without changing much of the sentence.

>>14055988
Reminds me of the Underground Man. It is hard to judge a first person narrator because it is required to pour a lot of personality into your writing and thus what might be seen as a flaw could actually be the point.
The impression I get from this is that the guy talking is pretentious, annoying and just not someone I'd want to be around. He gives me the feel that he tries to artificially inflate his thoughts just for extension's sake and, again, reminds me of some XIX century books. I would be hard to persuade to keep following him, but I'd do it anyway just to see what's his point. If this wasn't the impression you were aiming for, I'm sorry to say that you've failed. If it was, congratulations; this narrator definitely has a personality that could provide a good experience through the story.

>>14056013
sincere thanks for the advice, i am yet to write something that truly pleases me. a semicolon really would be great there, just that i tend to get a bit carried away and overuse them if not careful; they're great tools. as for the name part, not a single character of mine has a name. its not even stylistic, but a problem that needs to be corrected sooner or later, and im having some trouble dealing with it. but thanks.

The man in the doorway was large and apparently ill at ease -- so large that he had to stoop a little and draw in his elbows.

>>14056077
I get that; ever since I learnt how to use semicolons I became addicted to it. Regarding names, it's not as big a deal as it is; you need to pick something that you believe might suit them. Unlike in real life, we can pick appropriate names for our "children" instead of just guessing what their character might be. For example, calling Andrew a man who displays bravery, or a name that sounds gentle for a meeker character, and so on. It can be stressful to set on a name, but you need to do it at one point or another. Unless you write in the first person, hearing "he", "him", "his" over and over again gets tiring.

>>14056094
This one is pretty good; I really like it. It gets to the point, provides a succinct description with the essentials, set a tone and gives more information than it is apparent as well as it poses questions.
Who is this man? Why is he ill at ease? Him being too big to fit through the door immediately casts him as either an outcast or
an unwelcome presence into the room. All in all, a fantastic opening line. I doubt it would become iconic, but it gets the job done and does it beautifully.

>>14055450
Bump

>>14054871
I find it odd that you use alliteration after the second "could" when the first didn't have it, athough I probably wouldn't've pointed this out had this not been your opening line.

>>14055011
This line is actually kino and only redditor hate it

>>14056160
I can say that the alliteration wasn't intentional. I was a tad careless when I wrote it, and thanks to the advice I've gotten in this thread I've altered it to
>The desert was wider than the eye could see and larger than the mind could span; Is-Ashara, the nomad girl, was just one more grain of sand.
I'm considering switching the semicolon for an "and".

>>14056182
Yeah, I noticed as I scrolled down the thread. I wouldn't normally say "here's how I'd write it," but:

>The desert was wider than the eye could see, and larger than the mind could span; Is-Ashara, the nomad girl, was little more than a grain of sand.
I would sooner replace the semicolon with a period than use a conjunction there.

More importantly though, you might be able to convey this point more indirectly, through framing, rather than by actually calling her a grain. Right now jumping straight to her name gives me a facial shot (though I presume she's wrapped in rags), but if you were to instead keep the camera withdrawn, the space around her could be what makes her look small. It depends on what you're trying to show.

>>14056160
>>14056182
I prefer that asymmetry. Unless you're writing metafiction and are intentionally drawing attention to the style as a form of commentary, I would avoid employing too many poetic devices such as alliteration, assonance, and symmetry in prose writing as it takes the reader out of the story.

>>14056236
>I would avoid employing too many poetic devices such as alliteration,
I was going more towards having him remove the alliteration in the second care rather than have him add it in the first, namely for this reason.

>>14056249
>care
case

>>14056232
I think I see what you mean. Between the semicolon and the period I'm not too picky; I believe that both can work fine here. I'm leaning more heavily towards the semicolon, but that's just personal preference. I enjoy linking up sentences that don't need to be together as long as the pause is conveyed and the sentences are short enough. As for the framing, you've really gotten me into a pickle here. I'm trying to see how I could change that, but nothing comes to mind immediately.
For this story I want to put special focus on the characters rather than the setting; I intend to make the world a functioning machine that doesn't need to be shown and analyzed but which instead works quietly in the background as the characters explore it. That's why I wanted to drop the character's name right away. Maybe if I said it in the first sentence and then empathize who big the desert was I'd be closer to attaining this effect?
>>14056236
Going back to what I was saying, I'm hoping to make this story a character study; I don't have any further ambitions than that. I tend to be overly decorative in my writing and I'm trying to remedy that here and get to the point. Either way, I appreciate and will try my hardest to follow your suggestion to avoid poetic devices so as to keep the story focused on its protagonists.

>>14056285
*how big

>>14054871
>The sun had not yet risen. The sea was indistinguishable from the sky, except that the sea was slightly creased as if a cloth had wrinkles in it. Gradually as the sky whitened a dark line lay on the horizon dividing the sea from the sky and the grey cloth became barred with thick strokes moving, one after another, beneath the surface, following each other, pursuing each other, perpetually.

>>14056304
Sorry, dude, this needs some polishing. You use the words "sea" and "sky" too many times. The metaphor between the sea and a blanket is not introduced into the sentence in a way that results pleasing or natural; it feels like you had to take a moment it to insert it, as if you were making that connection as a side comment. You need make better use of commas, such as here
>Gradually,(!) as the sky whitened, (!) a dark line lay on the horizon...
All around, this line is just very sloppy. It tries to describe a natural phenomenon and gift it with even more beauty, which is a respectable practice, but it's kind of messy here.
I think you should revise it and read it aloud, notice whether or not you believe it flows in a way that conveys that beauty you are trying to portray. When describing water or any quiet motion meant to inspire wonder you really need to get a good pace for it, and this one trips over itself too often to produce that effect. Keep trying.

>>14056304
This sounds more like a list of things to include in a line than an actually good one.

>Only the ocean's wrinkles set it apart from the sky above, [...]
See how this doesn't recall things over and over again?

As for the second sentence, I don't even know what you mean. Is there supposed to be a comma after "whitened," or is the sky whitening the dark line? And you say "as" but then use the verb "lay" afterward, and then after that go on to "became" for further confusion. Did the line specifically lay AS the sky whitened, or had it been lying? Because I'm pretty sure that "became" was what you meant to link to "as".

Then the cloth metaphor comes in. You mentioned wrinkles in the ocean before, but this (grey) cloth refers to the (dark) horizon line-itself? Not only is this confusing in its own right, but it's thrown out before I can make sense of the prior issues.

>>14055988
Really enjoyed how you, in that short excerpt, managed to compare two such different states, the placidness that your character sees in the universe with the chaos and disorder unraveling around them. Really sets the backdrop for a tale, so the way you choose to tell it fits perfectly because of that. Only gripe is that the main character seems to have an extendive knowledge of the stars, or at least a fascination, and it'll probably have to be a recurring point in your tale, maybe he's a sage. Other than that, fantastic! Lured me into wanting to read it.

>>14055988
The speaker seems more like a poorly-worded version of Buster Scruggs than the underground man, but generally I side more with >>14056068 than >>14056593.

>>14055817
>before, now
"and now" would make it more clear that this is another statement concering the one who was woken rather tham the birds themselves.

>with no expectations for the present day other than those he once held before,
What? "He had no expectations except for the expectations he (once) had (but also still has?)." Is your point actually that he just expected nothing new?

>>14056682
>Is your point actually that he just expected nothing new?
while it is that but in fancy words, i tried to paint him as disillusioned, he has reached a point where he sees no new excitements ahead of him anymore. there are no longer new things compelling him so he'd rather just stay in bed. thanks for the crit.

bumpe

Here's a couple:

>He'd been burned three times in his life and this third time was by far the most painful.

>Flies were swarming on the severed toes and fingers.

>The tub of ice cream had turned to soup in the car.

>She was putting toner over her shiner when her son knocked heavily on the bathroom door and said softly, though coldly, "I'm sorry."

>It was late autumn and the trees were naked.

>>14054871
It scanned us with the self diagnosing black accuracy of a predator with a broken leg.

>Call me Ishmael

Six days without jerking off was too many, and now Thom was sitting in front of the television watching that afternoon's game too distracted by a fantasy of a whole team of sweaty athletic hunks running a train on him in the locker room to keep track of the score.

>>14055227
If you ever want to know epics, guy, I'm your man. I've worked long time reading obscure minor epics, from antiquity to contemporary. If you like Milton, for sure check out Cowleys Davideis

Things began poorly and then rapidly got worse.

>>14058471
Please tell me everything you know about obscure epics
Is "Gondibert" good? What about Blackmore's "Prince Arthur?"

>>14058471
Do you know any arab epics, or late roman's?

>>14058464
Needs more commas. The way you've written it induces to reader to rush to the end of the sentence and miss the impact of what you're saying.
Other than that, it's not a bad start for a story. Cheeky enough to be either taken seriously or not.

>>14058489
Try to avoid using vague expressions such as "things" if that's the main object or subject of the sentence. It comes across as lazy; try to be more specific when your phrase is to be analyzed on its own. In a quick succession of lines you can use such words, but here I'd say something like
"It all began poorly and rapidly got worse" or "The situation began poorly and rapidly got worse".
Other than that, it's a decent hook; people will probably want to find out what happened and keep reading.

>>14054871
>The desert was wider than the eye could see and larger than the mind could conceive; Is-Ashara, the nomad girl, felt awfully insignificant before it.

All deserts are wider than the eye can see, large size is fundamental to the definition of a desert. So describing it like that to show scale doesn't make sense. There is also a mismatch between the "eye" and "mind". Anything that's larger than what the mind could conceive is automatically larger than the eye can see. Furthermore using them together in a single sentence like this implies some shared feature between "eye" and "mind", which there isn't. The eye is a basic sense organ while the mind is a whole different thing. It would make sense if you said "large than the eye could see and louder than the ears could hear" (never mind you can't hear a desert).

>>14059267
I see your points. However, allow me to clarify a few things.
While there is certainly an intent to communicate scale, my main objective was to emphasize how the protagonist feels in relation to it.
As for the rest, you are correct; I didn't think of that. I'll have to figure out a more meaningful, less redundant way to communicate that sentiment.

>It was the best of times. It was the blurst of times.

>There were oney three enemies left. One, if you weren't a heretic. And yet, but I was.

>>14059112
Thanks anon, that's actually decent feedback. You're right that the sentence flows too fast but I'm not confident that adding more commas works. I might have to restructure the whole thing. As it is it sort of just all tumbles out in a deluge of words.

I've spent a while thinking about how I might fix it - I want to emphasise the sweaty athletic hunks component - but my attempts to reorder or restructure it just feel clumsy by comparison.

I'll think on it a bit. But you've certainly made me think harder about how to get the most out of a line. Thanks.

>>14060172
It's not even about introducing commas to make it sound better -which it is too-, but also because you're breaking punctuation norms without any artistic intent.
You can improve upon it or even restructure it to make it sound all around better, I don't doubt that. But as it is, with the right placement of commas it is possible to salvage the sentence somewhat.

>Six days without jerking off was too many, and now, Thom was sitting in front of the television, watching that afternoon's game, too distracted by a fantasy of a whole team of sweaty athletic hunks running a train on him in the locker room to keep track of the score.

It's not perfect but it is functional. Either way, I agree that reworking the sentence would be in your best interest. Don't get too hung up on the idea of having an extremely noteworthy first line; a well paced first paragraph is worth as much, if not more, than a striking opening line.

>>14054871
>>14055040
Came to say this, then I read the second half of the post and regretted agreeing. That opening line is fucking boring and totally mundane, spice it up.

>>14060799
What do you mean exactly? Would it be better to alter the content of the message or its presentation?

>>14060866
The overall presentation is quite dry and boring, and not in a good way. Spin the same picture in a different, more interesting way. Nobody likes to read "there's an x that made y feel z", gotta make it less robust and more intriguing I guess. Don't tell us what she's feeling, make us feel it ourselves!

>>14054871
Little late to this party but I insist;

>What was once the end has now preceeded itself as the beginning. Every story has been long told.

>>14060946
Booooooooooooooooooooooring

>>14060966
Dubs speak of truth, perhaps? Anything further to instill a shamanic tone?

It was the largest hamburger he had ever eaten -- the largest one made of people at least.

>>14060980
If you want a shamanic tone, you need hypnotic monotony, but your opening line is just flat out dull and not captivating in the slightest.

>>14060903
Wouldn't I have to provide a long description of the desert in order to convey that emotion to the reader this early on? At this point my intent is to express how this character feels rather than inducing a sentiment in the reader. Doing so with a single line, out of context, is extremely difficult and not necessarily the best option. I've read individual lines that fucked me up, but they needed some build-up first. Wouldn't establishing the scene and character take priority in this situation? I have more confidence in leading the reader down an emotional path slow and steady rather than in a single precise stroke, to be honest.

But I'll try a different approach, tell me what you think, if you want.
>Unending dunes and crags extended all around Is-Ashara, the nomad girl; the immensity of the desert was only matched by the luminous celestial vault.

>>14060982
Nice; this one would definitely get my attention in a book. Only one thing; use a comma before "at least" and it'll be perfect.

>>14061024
Is-Ashara wondered often about her desert - about losing herself in it, and whether anyone would ever find her bones if she did.

>>14061068
You would probably change "her desert" to "the desert" in hindsight - I intended to convey that she belonged to the desert but it didn't come across.

I'm just some random chiming in, by the way. Haven't really been following the conversation.

>>14061068
>>14061074
That's okay. It would have been better if you followed the conversation, but I appreciate the effort.
The thing is that that isn't something she would concern herself with. I intend to make her insecure about her role within her people, but in what comes to navigation she's 100% confident in herself; the idea of dying alone in the desert she has lived in her entire life wouldn't even cross her mind under normal circumstances.

>>14061108
In that case I'd question the value of opening with the desert at all. If it's not important to your character then who cares? What's your character noticing and interested in?

I think you need to clarify to yourself the concrete thing that she is doing when the story begins, how it is making her feel, and why it is making her feel that. If she's trying to drag a camel to where it needs to be she's probably going to be preoccupied with that, and the fact that she is in a desert will barely rate more than a passing mention.

Is she standing on the outskirts of camp staring pensively at the desert as she reflects on life and the world? If not, she's probably not neck-deep in poetic contemplation of it. That doesn't mean "don't poetically describe the desert" - it just means leave that description to the appropriate juncture. It'll be even better for being built up to by the events of the story, rather than dropped in place, and you'll be able to attach greater significance to it.

Or, alternatively, (and you might have already done this), change what she's doing so that a long description of the desert makes sense, and then tie the description in with what she's doing. You said she's a comfortable navigator - maybe she's navigating?

>It was six more days to water - even so, she would have to dig for it.
This introduces us to a more hardboiled and pragmatic character, but you might prefer:

>The campsite they had come from had no name, for it was little more than a shaded spit of sand below a windworn rock where scorched hands might dig for water.
This one is a little more pensive, and I envision it leading into a further description like
>The campsite they were at had no name also, and it was little more than a dry riverbed and a momentary break in the dunes. And the campsite they were heading to was yet nameless still, a salty...
and so on, eventually leading into the character and the journey she's undertaking with her people.

I've left out how she feels about the desert. I think that's fine - I think you can show that by her actions within the first paragraph, when we switch focus to her.

>Is-Ashara's gaze dropped from the endless horizon to the blunted pebble in her hand, and the mark she'd been making with it in the red stone beside her. She had no writing - did not even know what writing was - but she knew that the little white line of chips and shapes was permanent, and it meant that she had been there, and that she had existed, somewhere, at some time, in this sea of sand, that even if - or when - her bones were subsumed underneath the marching dunes, this little part of her would remain beyond their reach, until the end of time, when Mal-Malut swallowed the world. She stared at her mark for a while. It joined the other marks left on the rock - other people, at other times. Even so, she preferred that to the horizon.

I went a bit crazy with the commas and sentence length there, admittedly.

Anyway, take it or leave it.

>>14061325
I can tell you were having fun writing that; holy shit. You have gone above and beyond with your advice here; I appreciate that.
What I envisioned was the following situation:
She's returning from a nearby town where she traded goat milk (produced by her people's shepherds) for wine, as they are hosting a celebration back in camp. It is a sacred moment for them, and thus, they needed to be secluded away from other people in a sacred place, so they sent her there for herself while they made sure everything was ready.
There's no much urgency here, and I don't think it would be appropriate the describe this moment as dull or typical for her, but rather cheery. The idea I will hope to convey is that despite her particular quest being sort of hard, she is enthused and loves serving her community with this small gesture which fills her with pride.
While I did really enjoy all your little treats of writing, at this point on the novel she's not that pensive and is rather young still. So, for starters I'd like to keep the narration a little bit more cutthroat, something I struggle with because I'm used to go on long trains of thought and actions such as the ones you've rather skillfully written yourself.

I hate these retarded quasi Arabic names so much. You have no idea how cringy they sound to someone who speaks the language.

>>14061728
Let me say off the gate that I meant no disrespect towards the Arabic language or its culture; I was, in reality, trying to go for a Mesopotamian inspired name, like in Akkadian or Assyrian. This story doesn't take place in our world; if it did, I sure as hell would have looked into real names instead of making something up. I hope that palliates it somehow.
In case you care, in-universe, "Is" means "God", and her name roughly translates to "God's garden".
Again, sorry if I bothered you.

>I ain't done nothin'.

>>14061817
Dialogue or narration?

>>14061776
>God's garden
so, paradise?

>If there was anything more contemptible in all the world than a rock, the Princess did not know it.

>>14063136
Not quite; her religion's customs don't include the story of Eden or anything like that.

>>14063178
This is the kind of line that makes me ask: "go on". It's got my attention, alright. It also has a nice rhythm; I like the accumulation of "o" based sounds.

There was a Lamut man in the country of Chaun who went to East Cape to look for some thong-seal hides.

>>14063206
very good, all the exposition fits

>>14063206
Who, what, where and why all responded in a single sentence; that's great.

>>14063204
What follows is the setting of a scene with the aforementioned Princess enjoying a midday ride in an open carriage with her father. After a few paragraphs, the carriage rolls over a rocl in the road and ruins her idyllic scene.

I was asked to do a fantasy tale and the only requirements were to feature a princess and a dragon. I'm trying to create a synthesis of the old faerie-stories of George MacDonald and the weird fiction of Lovecraft, Chambers or Dunsany. Two books I read around the same time when I was young were The Hobbit and It. I want a tributary work that uses a fanciful faerie-story to introduce a younger audience to eldritch concepts, a sort of cosmic horror lite.

>>14063260
Oh, man, I love that combination. Children stories that take a turn for the horror are such a treat for me; combined with that opening line, I believe that I would really enjoy your tale.

It was a dark and stormy night
Clouds were yelling at each other
All stars were looking for their light
Silver tears fell for their mother
The moon went missing that blue night.
Hidden was under my cover
My blue-pale mistress of the night
She was mine for me to love her
Waves and earthquakes all while we fucked.

>>14063284
I'm glad to know it's not too off-putting of a combination. I have a loose notion of a trilogy which evolves from children's tale to young adult to full dark fantasy in order for the story to mature with its audience (much like the transition from The Hobbit to The Lord of the Rings to The Silmarillion).
What has spurred me on is that I have come up with many scraps of prose and concepts only to find them mirrored in works of Lovecraft, Chambers and Dunsany which I had not read prior to writing said scraps. I get an eerie sense of inspiration for the work.
Currently, I am trying to gather works from MacDonald's contemporaries and forebears to delve more deeply into the faerie-story style. Any recommendations?

Ne'er wouldst the King have thought
The daughter's carnal caprice
Would such a lurid chaos wrought
In Lost and Drowned Ker-Ys

>>14063317
>(much like the transition from The Hobbit to The Lord of the Rings to The Silmarillion)
I might be mistaken, but I think that The Silmarillion came first.
As for the rest of your post, well, it's a cliche, but you just have to find your voice. Even if it's not too distinctive at first, as long as you feel like you're writing for yourself and not imitating someone else you'll be on the right path.
I wish I could offer you any recommendations, but I'm afraid I fall short of references in this subject.

>>14054871
Here's mine: The first thing you, reader, should be aware of, the thing that will ground your understanding of the story that follows, is that god is real—materially real—he is twenty feet tall with teeth like black iron; I have seen him walking back and forth between the houses.

>>14063317
>>14063332
Sorry, forgot to comment on this; your idea for a progressive aging narrative sounds pretty great. It is ambitious and it would require a firm hand not to botch it up, but it is without a doubt doable.
Now I might have recommendation. You've probably heard of this book already, but The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle surprised me when I read it. I found the imagery to be pretty powerful, and it got me off guard with how melancholic and it got. It is one of my all favorite fairy tales; I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but I consider it to be one of those stories that can be appreciated by both children and adults for different reasons.

>>14063332
Oh, I meant my own reading of Tolkien with regards to chronology. I would also note that advice is not so much "cliche" as it is "trite but true." I fear getting too mired in the works of others as it might drain the creativity and originality from my own. I feel as though I have my own voice but I do want a certain sort of authenticity. There is a particular quality (which I find difficult to articulate) found in 19th and early 20th century fantasy that is absent in contemporary examples.

>>14063356
>The Last Unicorn
Yes! Precisely the sort of things I'm looking to absorb and, I'm loathe to say emulate, so let's say "fit in with." Michael Ende is another whose work I love. The person who requested the story also had me read Patricia Wrede, who is much more modern but still fits with the style.

>>14063376
>>14063391
I think I understand what you mean. There was a sense of elegance and importance to those stories of old; I think that they intended to attract a very wide public and speak to the core human characteristics found in all ages. Newer fantasy seems more of a young people business, which is why I assume results in the descend in quality. Teenagers are kind of vapid, so it makes sense that a genre that has shifted its attention to them would do so as well.
Now, I have tried my hand at urban fantasy and, although he's not terribly popular here, I thought that Neil Gaiman got across a sense of wonder and danger in his works unlike most other of his contemporaries. It's not high fantasy, which is probably what you're looking for, but the tone he sets tends to be precise; Coraline and the Ocean at the End of the Lane are the best examples of that.
I suggest that you look deeper into what influenced those 19th and 20th century writers; look for the sources they drank from.
I am certain that some medieval poetry or narrative could influence you positively, for example.

>>14063422
I've recently picked up Spenser's The Faerie Queene and some collections of Scott and Tennyson.
Regarding urban fantasy, I'm sure you've read Neverwhere given that you cited Gaiman, but have you read Meiville? Particularly Un-Lun-Dun?

>>14054871
As the sun reached the zenith of its orbit, three men broke through the surface of the endless sea and swam towards a plateau of stone, the last of any land in the world.

>>14063303
you blew it

>>14054871
>Much argumentation had ensued in the O’Connor household when Mary, the eldest daughter, received a letter from her Aunt Lydia offering her a job in the household of a certain Lord Maxwell.

>>14063486
How?

>>14058134
Reminds me of pinecone in a way

>>14054990
That’s really nice anon. I like it a lot. I have played around with writing iambic pentameter “covers” of my favorite literature, little 10-20 line stuff, but idk if I’m really understanding it at all (actually I think I know I don’t).

Can you explain Iambic pentameter to me? I can’t get a grip on the concept of stresses and feet.

The first line of Paradise Lost for example doesn’t seem to fit the stressed/unstressed pattern, but I must just not understand it. I know it must be possible to write a 10 syllable line and have it still be “wrong” but I don’t really know why. Also it’s confusing to me because Shakespeare seems to not do the stressed/unstressed thing all the time, so can I just write 10 syllable lines and call it iambic pentameter? I don’t think I can but idk how to understand it really and make it more easy to recognize for myself. Should I think of it as short/long?

Anything I can read to clear this up, I feel stupid not understanding it.

>>14063606
The confusion often comes from a misunderstanding of how the meters of poetry work on a very base level, it IS used as a way of regulating written word, but as far back as the ancients it's musical - intended to be read aloud, sung and recited. Now I get what confuses you about Milton, but he actually had quite a strict use of the meter, to a degree where most variant feet can be explained. take this:
This turn hath made amends; thou hast fulfill’d
Thy words, Creator bounteous and benigne,
Giver of all things faire, but fairest this
Of all thy gifts, nor enviest. I now see
Bone of my Bone, Flesh of my Flesh, my Self
Before me; Woman is her Name, of Man
Extracted; for this cause he shall forgoe
Father and Mother, and to his Wife adhere;
And they shall be one Flesh, one Heart, one Soule.

Paradise Lost Book 8 491-499

In the fourth line there is a "break" in meter, where the line doesn't technically fit the meter. However, it isn't breaking the musical flow or rhythm of the poem over all, and accounting for natural speech patterns (see image) the en-viest becomes two-syllables and fits the meter.

THE ONLY TIMES YOU CAN BREAK THE "METER" IS WHEN IT DOESN'T BREAK THE OVERALL FLOW

>>14064785
while it is good to view the words only as the strict stress patterns set, most people don't pronounce the words exactly as supposed to; people drop syllables here and there, think "water" it should be pronounced Whar-ter but some people contact it to wah-er, that isn't really a good example but try and read what you've written aloud to get a feel for what you're actually writing

>>14064795
Take this line:

"Won. And, in this dominion swirled death,
In this ascendant realm was constant august
Constantine – great now named, and ever known"

focus on - "In this ascendant realm was constant august"

It's from my own work, and it runs one syllable over ten, yet, it doesn't break the flow, and I am not sure exactly how to word this and still make sense, but the flow doesn't break, and somewhat improves it by having the breathless build to Constantine - which one could say is an indication that the meter is noticeably broken, but not really.

>>14054871
>I opened the book to the first page and began to read.

>>14054871
>A little more than one hundred days into her fourtieth year of confinement

>>14063432
I haven't read Un-Lun-Dun. I admit that my investment in fantasy isn't nowhere as big as yours. I wish I could talk on your same level, but I'm not there yet. Sorry.

The saloon door flew open, and a man with a broad brimmed hat and a gun in each hand stepped in, said "Where's Death?", and a voice from behind the counter said "Upstairs, a whore's a fucking", "Alright then" said he and holstered his guns, sat down at the harpsichord, Bach's Schmerzensmann.

>>14063549
Not a bad start, although it could be better. I like how it cuts all flourish and states what happened, but maybe it's too long for an opening sentence. Now, I realize that reading it on its own is probably skewing my perspective on the sentence, so don't take me too seriously on that front. However, the last part seems to go on a little longer than it should. If you find yourself agreeing, I'd start making changes there.

>>14054871
Link Wray probably did it best when it comes to describing the mind coping with the vastness of the desert, learn from him.

I can see for miles, my mind goes on forever

How quickly I devolve even my most solid work into inane ramblings. I had another dream last night – and I will say the woman – Cleo – came again – but I can’t be certain it was her – but by god the beauty in the dream – I keep seeing the sea – the coast – in my dreams – this one no exception – and gazing out across it – at evening – Cleo gone – the gulls crying for the loss – rocks in wonderous pillars and formations – low tide – a salt pillar – orange-pink – dazzily sky – I want to see it again – to see it for real – even in the dream I had a faux awakening – and knew that that had been a dream – the non-dream-dream even worse than the former – I miss it all – the adventure – the originality – unadulterated emotion.

>>14063558
thr last line is not as elegant as it shouldve been, what youve written before was delicate, sweet, and you ruin all your build up with a line that doesnt even rhyme, and explicitly names an explicit act. What is this poetry for, then? think of all the beautiful imagery you couldve used, but instead you opt for the easy way out. you ignored the climax of that opening and replaced it with a wet fart.

>>14065207
I love this. Dreamlike delusions are such a treat, and this one gives me enough of a solid image to identify with the narrator while also keeping it diffuse enough to share his suffering at the dream's brevity.
I tend to enjoy quick brushes of descriptions that end up forming an impressionist image, and I'd say that this one succeeds at it.
I can, however, imagine other people finding this kind of trite and pretentious, which I'd understand. It is also a strange way to begin your book; I can almost see this acting as a filter of sorts for a lot of readers.
My question is whether or not this form of meandering thoughts will continue after the opening line or if you will instead touch the ground.
Keep in mind that the more questions you pose to the audience from the very start- by way of presenting them with people and places they don't know anything about- the more of a risk you're running of them shutting off.
Basically, it's a good execution, but I'm a bit wary of its placement.

>>14065207
about a third of the way through dash madness i began reading them all as dots. i guess this is probably not what you wanted

>>14065266
I understand the issue of placement, I'm actually the guy writing the epic, that dream passage is just from my journal/prose collection I write to clear my mind. It's not the beginning of it, I just thought it would be interesting to posit it as if it was and see how my prose held out.
This stands out as being the only passage written in such a way - as it is just an account of a dream rather than a general though or pseudo-essay

>>14065113
I like the idea you seem to be going for, but then it sort of makes a sudden turn left.
For starters, it's a very brusque opening scene, which I find very enjoyable; you described the haste of the moment perfectly.
I'm not so sold on that comma after "Upstairs, a whore's a fucking", followed by another bit of dialogue. Maybe I'm just spoiled by periods. I would have used a semicolon there instead of a comma; I believe that would allow you to keep the momentum of the action in a cleaner way.
A minor detail is that there should be a comma here:
>said he,(!) and holstered his guns.
Finally, even though I appreciate the attempt, I believe that an "and" before "sat down at the harpsichord.
All around, a very interesting piece. It has a certain tone in cheek feel about it that I genuinely enjoy; by this opening alone I know I'd want to keep reading.
I apologize in advance if my advice counters your artistic intent; sometimes it's hard to point out whether someone has made a mistake on purpose or accidentally, and whether or not fixing it would be to the work's detriment.

>>14065283
Hey, nice to talk to you again; I'm happy to see you're still around this thread.
It's a good excerpt, and I believe that pieces like this are best in small doses, which is what you did.
It was definitely interesting to read, and it proves just how deeply you've absorbed the masters you intend to tribute through your work. Keep it up, epicanon.

>>14065316
Thanks, was just lurking around. I really appreciate the comment on absorbing the masters; I have my made it my life's goal to become THE great writer of the 21st century, so any indication that I'm doing well always encourages me

>Those memories stolen from you, the lover, I expose them now that we won't meet anew.
>I write them before they fade, those so innocently told and so dilightfuly heard.
>They have the strenght and fragility of youth, this sort breaks and disappear to hastly to be ever rightly deemed.
>Also I beg you not to take to harshly the cynism reserved to the kind, naive and idelistic, you know yourself to be.
>This mask is a thin veil concealing my envy of a life so true.
>It's your praise here, a mark of a life you revealed ; you kept as a convict of Love until demised, severed by the strain.

The original text :
>Ces souvenirs volés à toi l'amoureux, je les expose maintenant que nous ne nous reverrons plus.
>Je les écrits avant leur disparition, ceux si innocemment racontés et si délicieusement écoutés.
>Ils ont la force et la fragilité de la jeunesse celles qui trop rapidement se défont et disparaissent pour n'être jamais appréciées justement.
>Ne prends pas trop durement le cynisme qu'on resserve à ton espèce, naïve et idéaliste, que tu sais être.
>Ce masque est un fin voile pour cacher mon jalousie d'une vie si franche.
>C'est ton éloge ici, une trace de la vie que m'as dévoilée ; toi gardé en bagnard par l'amour jusqu'à qu'il t'ai vaincu, rompu par l'effort.

>>14065336
>I have my made it my life's goal to become THE great writer of the 21st century

So spiralling does fall our narrative
That I’m afeared that we’ve strayed farther from
The goal than prudence hopes. Further roads
Lie distant straight, as doth the blow does fell
A tree of life, a family life-tree
That sets about the task of scribing word
To picture, and picture from life. But O!
The beginning now cometh back anew
And a turn is made, turn back to long years,
Up to Constantine and the new-found Rome.
Fortuna held not pusillanimity,
“Hosanna!”, her transgressors swiftly cried
As death came for men’s souls – swift victory
Won. And, in this dominion swirled death,
In this ascendant realm was constant august
Constantine – great now named, and ever known
This new Augustus, fresh baptised the master
Of Latinate bloomed, and set forth to build;
the first site chose, was that of ruined Troy,
but once more Christ came and did speak in dream,
to our Augustus, and that message brought
was such: “set not the bounds of the new Rome
on this here plain, seek not such distant land –
If you so mimic Rome, would you not be
Much better served if you locate your seat
Bounds closer to that city?” Words come true
From Christ’s mouth, and these words he spoke cut deep
In dear Constantine, so he then replied
With: “Lord, oh grand your spirit pure, please speak
Yet more to me, a wretched pagan still!
Say where you wish the city to be set!
Reveal the site that would exult you best!
Do not now fade from sight, stay here, o lord!
How could he now refuse such pleading speech?
As stern as iron may his spirit be,
yet not so steadfast ‘fore a faithful soul.
And the reprise was such, that the thundering
Words hailed in glory, fell upon ears
in silence of dream; “Head, Imperator,
back long this Trojan coast, and halt not when
thou reach’st the Diocletian city, flee
past (Nicomedia was wisely chose,
yet though in much too distant straights, from Rome),
step still a few steps further, come more close
to nest ~ EVROPA ~ over-broad, then HALT!
The nest shall be removed, to teeter bold
On board the ship tumultuous, to anchor
So stolid upon Eurasia’s frontline
That, seeming to never move at all, such
Tack will set borders overround the world;
The slip – that will capsize, on grander scale -
And shift aside of history in the west
To be new oriented in splendorous
Est-fashion.” Light-bursts was the method sown
And fertile ears it harshly fell upon.

I smoked a cigarette and browsed the news - a story about niggers, written by a nigger, talked about how niggers needed more.

Much will have been gained for aesthetics once we have succeeded in apprehending directly--rather than merelyascertaining--that art owes its continuous evolution to the Apollinian- Dionysian duality, even as the propagation of the species depends on the duality of the sexes, their constant conflicts and periodic acts of reconciliation.

>>14065935
lol

>>14054871
>;

>>14066808
What's the second line?

>>14054871
"Well what did you expect having a kid with a sleazy pig for a woman?" Charlotté said with closed eyes, even though the person she was talking with was looking right at her.

>>14054871
>Is-Ashara, the nomad girl,
horrible, just write "she" instead.

>>14067204
I thought that getting the name out of the way right away would be more practical.

>>14067312
If she's being presented to feel insignificant, you could reflect that by not having her be named yet, just a "she"

>I was born a face in a sea of masks, begins my good friend's suicide note.

The novel isn't as edgy or self-pitying as it seems from the opening.

>>14067356
That makes sense. Although, to be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of the "pronoun game" or whatever it is called. When the narrator withholds the name of their protagonist, unless we're starting with a secondary character, tends to irritate me.

>>14067434
You should add some quote marks to that first part of the sentence, don't you think? It's a character relaying another person's direct speech.
Other than that, it's not bad. It definitely leads the reader to those conclusions you've mentioned, but that sentence alone wouldn't be able to keep me from reading.

>>14054871
>I wonder... will you remember? how it started, why it ended... will you remember me? will you forgive me?

>>14068529
i do.

>>14065252
The last line was a joke

>>14054871
I leave 95 pages blank as the ultimate pleb filter