/lit/ - Literature

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I'm the exact opposite of you, dislike being in the spotlight of a group but really enjoy individual friendships. I guess the type of people you hang out with plays a big part in this. Don't have an idea what to recommend though.

>>14042862
I am starting to wonder if I am a narcissist. I struggle greatly to show people I value them, or build relationships. I don’t know if it’s a subconscious fear of rejection, or I just don’t value others.

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>>14042765
>>14042882
Everybody's like this, anon. Those who don't appear so have accustomed their body and mind into pretending they care. There is no factual distinction between "actually" caring for someone and "pretending" to care for someone; find the courage to lie to yourself and others with no self-reflection and you'll start getting the hang of it.

>>14042765
Yeah, I'm like this. It's narcissism.

>>14043072
This is wrong.
I genuinely care for some people and it is often reflected in my interactions.

>>14043072
I feel like this is bs. I feel like im different than others

>>14042765
You are an extroverted introvert, or maybe vice versa.

>>14042882
>I am starting to wonder if I am a narcissist.
Do you pit people against one another to rise in social standing?

>>14043121
What do you mean?

>>14043122
I used to as a kid. Not so much anymore.

I also really am interested in literature on this topic

>>14043072
I'm sure you do. I perceive that as learned behaviour from getting the knack of what attitudes and actions "caring" entails and it growing second nature. "Genuine" I see as just that.

>>14043110
I'm sure you do. I perceive that as absence of learned behaviour as to what attitudes and actions "caring" entails and thus it having never grown second nature. But I suspect even if you agreed with this, you would still hesitate to embrace it, as I suspect you've grown comfortable to that general attitude you perceive to be yours and describe as narcissistic. You do you, anon.

>>14043156
>>14043072 meant towards >>14043088

>>14043072
t. psychopath

>>14043156
Maybe youre right. Ive had gfs though. I know how to care for others.

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It's unironically the internet's fault
The amount of lies you have to watch out for and the overbearing culture of general distrust and skepticism paired with no longer needing to interface with people in real life to take part in social activity has cultivated a generation of men with deep seeded intimacy issues

>>14042926
I'd hit it

>>14042926
A profound statement on the instathot phenomenon and modern women in general

>>14044718
Faggot

help

>>14043072
>there is no factual distinction between "actually" caring for someone and "pretending" to care for someone;
What a load of old shit

>>14042765
read catcher in the rye

>>14044718
>>14044978

When the response proves the first post right.

>>14045296

>help

Try the following:
>grounding techniques when others are not around to get in touch with physical space
>active listening when others talk
>asking others about their lives and then actively trying to empathize when they tell stories

It's ok to get invested in other worlds and enjoy your own company more than others as long as you practice empathy and kindness when you do interact with others.

>>14042765
The Stranger, Albert Camus

Solution is to become a better listener. I felt that too and randomly came across (probably a facebook post) "every person can teach you something," or "you can learn something new from every person," or something to that effect. It sounds stupid but it's true. If someone ate soup alone yesterday only they can tell you what kind it was.

A bum can probably share a true story as exciting as a movie. Even a boring housewife probably has something interesting to say. I picked up smoking around the same time in my life so I would make it a habit to offer a smoke to people and try to learn something interesting.

The thing is you only find yourself interesting, only like other people when they're sharing that appreciation with you. Maybe pay attention to someone else as the main character of their story once in a while. They will be more interesting if you aren't talking to them just to satisfy your ego's wants.

>>14043122
that's not narcissism though. that's only narcissism for extraverts. introverts can be narcissistic
source: myself

>>14042882
>>14047597
>Schizoid and narcissistic personality disorders can seem similar in some respects (e.g. both show identity confusion, may lack warmth and spontaneity, avoid deep relationships with intimacy). Another commonality observed by Akhtar is preferring ideas over people and displaying intellectual hypertrophy, with a corresponding lack of rootedness in bodily existence. There are, nonetheless, important differences. The schizoid hides his need for dependency and is rather fatalistic, passive, cynical, overtly bland or vaguely mysterious. The narcissist is, in contrast, ambitious and competitive and exploits others for his dependency needs.

You're probably not very much like others at all and as a result don't really find much value in interacting with them for the most part. You talk to them and find out their tastes are relatively banal and mainstream and repeat the process hundreds of times over and over only to find out the same thing each time which is what has caused you to turn out like this.

If you really want to make any sort of effort towards understanding the average person on the street you should take up reading women's magazines along with whatever that is on the Amazon best sellers list.

>>14047604
Interesting. My idea of narcissism was charming; someone who was seemingly perfect on the outside.

>>14046628
How would you go about getting them to say something interesting?

>>14047811
ask their opinions on controversial topics

>>14042765
>How do I stop being the center of attention?
>Makes an OP
big think

>Is there literature about this?
Any literature. Instead of worrying about yourself-liking-people or how people work, think about it in terms of how liking-things works, outward. Have something you like? Go back to that, look at it, ask yourself about that thing or feel the way you do. With inanimate objects it's a lot harder to feel fake or performative, since they aren't looking back at you.

Chances are you're actually like >>14042862, only you're capable of othering entire crowds more easily, since they don't look like people. Demagogues get people to think this way too, but for hate; it's easier to hate "They" than your neighbor, friend, etc. I wouldn't be suprised if you're doing the same thing just for happiness. I definitely prefer one-on-one myself and get pretty angsty in three-way conversations, but huge crowds? They're noone, easy.

>>14042765
or you can read Might Is Right and conquer them all

>>14048485
Can you put this into laymans terms? im struggling to understand

>>14042765
>>14042862
I’m in a strange situation myself. In public speaking in front of large groups and one on one conversations, I’m confident and even charismatic, but in small groups, I kind of shrink back and fade into the background. I think a lot of my confidence is just me faking it because in reality I’m shitting myself with anxiety internally when I speak.

>>14043072
My biggest problem is that I struggle to really express myself emotionally. Other people get happy or angry or sad at different things, but I treat most things with indifference. I barely feel human half the time.

>>14050001
I’m in the same boat as you. I’m the OP. I only really feel anger or shame.

>>14042926

>>14050014
Me too. Those two are overwhelming. Particularly shame (not guilt) What to do?

Can narccisism be overcome? I don't want to use the medical term "cured" I am hopeful that it can be

This type of mindset I can only describe are a solipsistic prison. It is pure hell. How to develop the humilty that is necessary to fight it? How to remove the shame? Any lit on this?

>>14050166
>>14050227
I’m the OP. Yeah we’re probably all narcissists. You guys ever lie or exaggerate your abilities as well? I think that being a self aware narcissist is the worst, because all energy you use to be confident and happy becomes destroyed if you analyze too much.

>>14050286
I'm able to make people think I'm way more intelligent than I actually am. I also know as a kid that I was a total narcissist who used his reputation as a perfect angel to pin the blame on other kids for things I'd done.

The trouble is that now I have a lot of self-loathing because I know that deep down I'm a boring and unremarkable person, but people around me believe that I'm destined to do great things. I've also developed a stronger sense of morality as I've grown older, but I'm unsure if this I because I genuinely want to become more empathetic or because I like the idea of others seeing me as a saint-- It's probably a bit of both.

>>14049864
I got some advice from an art teacher in highschool once that I've seen repeated quite a few times. When you're painting a tree, you don't paint each leaf; you maybe dab a bunch down at once, etc, to get the pattern down. Even off the page, it's not like you have to count up all a tree's leaves to see what the tree looks like. This, I suspect, is how you're currently getting over your fear of individuals when speaking to groups composed of them; you don't feel as looked-at there are too many eyes to count. If the "looked-at" part is what you want elaboration on though, I guess I could give you Sartre's song and dance. Or you could just read Being and Nothingness.

>>14049864
I got some advice from an art teacher in highschool once that I've seen repeated quite a few times. When you're painting a tree, you don't paint each leaf; you maybe dab a bunch down at once, etc, to get the pattern down. Even off the page, it's not like you have to count up all a tree's leaves to see what the tree looks like. This, I suspect, is how you're currently getting over your fear of individuals when speaking to groups composed of them; you don't feel as looked-at when there are too many eyes to count. If the "looked-at" part is what you want elaboration on though, I guess I could give you Sartre's song and dance. Or you could just read Being and Nothingness.

>>14050545
Interesting. Thanks anon

>>14050465
Same here. Except my childhood friends know me for the fraud I am. I spent some time resenting them for knowing but now I realize that they view me as sad, or pathetic even, because they know my home situation was bad and probably led to my issues. They’re more distant now, but I appreciate them for still loving me for how I am, a broken fraud of a person.

>>14050545
I thought I told you to suck my dick

>>14050743
You might've but if you're identifying me by the image I haven't used it before I think.

>>14050689
Sorry to hear you had a shit home life. For me, I think the exact opposite problem contributed to my personality. My entire family wouldn't stop telling me how smart I was from a very young age, and I was always the goody two shoes and the model student in a class room setting. I've always worked to improve myself because it's got to a point where I lived for other people's praise. Even desires for romance is about me finding comfort in the fact that someone actually cares about my existence and would be sad if I was to disappear.


My biggest nightmare is actually having my mediocrity exposed and the thought of dying with no lasting legacy being left behind. I'm about to graduate uni and my tutors are saying that I have the potential to go for a Masters of a PhD, but the truth is that I don't know what I want to do with my life. I just want to do something where I'll be respected and loved by people, no matter what it is.

It's good to know I'm not the only one like this. I'm also not familiar with any literature that talks about the kind of concerns I have.

>>14050775
I feel this type of imposter syndrome is pretty common. The biggest thing that eats away at me is that my ‘false’ sense of self is such a cornerstone to my self worth and confidence. When I overanalyze or become too self aware it hampers my ability to live and make the people around me happy.

I think that you should believe in yourself, and know that you’ll never escape that voice thats telling you its not enough. No matter what you do, it will never be enough. Chase your happiness anon, and don’t entwine it too much with your grandiosity. They aren’t the same. Think of what makes you happy, purely happy, without the ego. That is pure.

>>14046628
>I picked up smoking around the same time in my life so I would make it a habit to offer a smoke to people and try to learn something interesting
So you decided to lower your quality of life and reduce your lifespan so you can listen to babbling housewives and schizophrenic bums? I’m going to pass on this advice, thanks.

>>14050886
It's hard to unentangle them. On the one hand, my idea of true happiness is a quiet life in the countryside with a wife and kids, but at the same time I always have that ego speaking to me telling me I need to do something world changing; to do something so remarkable that I'll be remembered for centuries.

My life right now is a constant struggle between a desire to be a god among men and trying to learn to become more human and empathetic. It's fucking with my head badly to the point where I fear I'll die without achieving either happiness OR glory. It's this hell with no escape.

>>14051066
That’s my struggle as well anon. I wish you good luck on your journey. You perfectly describe the impulses I deal with daily.

>>14051112
I’ve considered looking into Christianity if that helps. Even if you don’t become fully Christian, Christ himself seems like a good role model for someone wishing to be more humble. I’m unsure if this is just my ego telling me to be more saintly though. Good luck to you too.

>>14050286
All the time. Then I also have all these odd grandiose fantasies and I often behave as if rules that apply to everybody elae don't apply to me. Year after year, in whatever social circle or work place, I always do something, subtle and sometimes not subtle, to try and stick out, to establish I am not "them" and to make it seem as if I am better. This sometimes wins me friends, which is weird, and I am never truly an outcast, particularly because I can perform my job well, but ultimately I have tons of self-loathing and shame, I think I will be found out. And why bother building my ego by putting others down, if not directly, then certainly in my head? Its pathetic and cowardly. Passive aggressive. I wish I could just relax and look outward, not always inward. Yet I am obsessed with this idea that prople give a fuck about me, although I dont think their perception is poisitive, its just that I think they give a shit, or should

>>14052484
Ultimately despite not being an outcast in public life, my private life is rather lonely. When seen to make a mistake, I often burn a bridge with my friends, instead of admitting to it like a normal person. This is a form of fragile, defensive narcissism, I think. Sometimes rarely I make myself the object of a joke though and it is very liberating. I would recommend this to fellow narcs. Just admit to the insanity of your stupid character if you can and see if that works

Relationships between yourself and other people are complicated. I dont like the majority of people I've met because they disappoint me. Most of people are constantly looking out for themselves, and who can be blamed? My friends want to see us all do better and contribute to our collective rise. That's why I only have 3 friends and everyone else is an acquaintance. I am cordial with new people but consider anyone I dont know untrustworthy. I enjoy interacting with my peers but a lot of my focus for most of my days has been on why people act the way they do and analyzing there psyche to try and break down a concept individual into more basic pieces such as values, intelligence, thought process patterns, mental illnesses, motivating factors, interests...the list goes on. It often leads to confusion because, well, people change and some people more than others act contrary to the way they normally behave. Of course no one is honest 100% of the time, it interests me what causes a normal honest person to divert from there baseline beliefs

>>14052484
Most people are too self absorbed to care too much about you. Coworkers generally form an opinion about you based solely off their first impression. Ignorance will cause people inferior to you to believe themselves your better and pride will prevent them from changing that opinion.

>>14051066
Yes, this. I'm also struggling with nihilism and find my efforts to accomplish anything of value (such as write a great novel) are undermined by my feelings of inadequacy and dismissed as appeasements of the ego. I am simultaneously a genius and a mediocre man.

I find this self awareness to be insufferable, to hate myself and love myself constantly.

>>14047629
Mainstream things have become worse and worse lately. I hunted down all my friends with the application Tik Tok and told them to not talk to me anymore. My baby mama is obsessed with social media and its detrimental to her health and to society as a whole at times. I dont have facebook or IG the only social apps I have are snapchat and sometimes tinder or badoo. Increased social media and screen time in the wrong hands will inevitably lead to a rise in mental illness

>>14046628
As yung Dolf said "really bosses dont talk we just sit back and listen" knowledge is power, not to sound evil but I remain quiet until a have gathered enough knowledge weapons to feel comfortable about letting them know more about myself. Act stupid and play smart is the name of the game.

I wonder if it is better to accept yourself for being a self important insufferable lonely man or to be continually self critical and self-aware in the hopes of improving yourself and your situation.

>>14052635
Nhilisim is liberating my friend. Not when it comes to your book though. That is a hobby, a passion, a dream, a goal. I use my nhilisim to soften the blow when things dont go my way. It keeps me from being too distraught. Not everything is shit but if you stay with low expectations you never take a loss

>>14052691
Make small goals fool this is day one. Dont waste your time with philosophy or juggling abstract ideas. Start small. It will take time and drive. Work out. Dont smoke self criticism is a slippery slope try mindfulness instead it's much more positive and will get you on the path

>>14052508
I can very strongly relate to all the narcissistic traits outlined in this thread, but I also have no problem to joke on myself as I’m fairly confident in crowds (one-on-one, not so much).

I also often do it with other people and take the teasing too far, to a point where they perceive it as me being malicious and intentionally hurtful – and that has made me lose friends. In reality, I just assume everyone is as strong as me in situations like that and can simply brush it off.

I can fake caring but I can’t fake understanding.

>>14042765
Used to be the same, but then I lost the sense of humor at some point. I'm mostly a ghost in social environments, not out of autism but genuine disinterest. Bizarrely enough I'm a great speaker, go figure. I don't suffer from it though, never felt lonely with my own thoughts.

>>14052731
To me it's about being vulnerable and trying to do it so that you actually risk taking damage to your ego, as opposed to doing it in a "controlled" way where I merely APPEAR to be self-deprecating for social effect, which is what I was often trying to do in the past. Sometimes I succeed in actually placing myself in somebody else's line of fire and it has always been a great experience. Being the subject of somebody else's tease, which to a fragile narcissist is often unbarable. I have immense respect for people who were able to see through my bullshit character and tell me how it is. So I'm hopeful I have some self-awareness and scope for improvement in terms of narcissism, yet sometimes I am horrified to think of this "solipsistic prison" as completely deterministic, unchangeable and set in stone, and that it will eventually destroy me, the hubris will end me. This is a frightful thought, but I have always believed in the idea of personality change and retribution. If I didn't then I think I couldn't go on like this. I think the average narc personality is just a massive defense mechanism, a sort of post-traumatic reaction to past circumstances, so it is fundamentally human and even cause for some empathy. Again, I would very much like to avoid medical and psychoanalytic nonsense language when talking about these things as I think it does everybody a disservice. The very idea of a "personality disorder" just seems like nonsense to me, yet the reality described in this thread is certainly real

>>14052836
>I have immense respect for people who were able to see through my bullshit character
One of the reasons I’ll always have respect for my dad is because he’s one of the few people who realised that I’m gaming the system to my advantage and that I’m actually a selfish prick (something he was always critical of in me).

Part of me thinks that I would stop being a narcissist if I was surrounded by people like that instead of most people being literal NPCs who are easy to convince of anything if you use the right approach.

I hate my own narcissism sometimes. I can’t help but question what emotions I have are real and what ones are fake. On top of that, I’m disgusted at the fact that I have evil thoughts sometimes. I’m currently trying to change into a more genuine and caring person, but the selfish instinct is always there.

>>14052938
I agree that these people are very good for the narc and if you can you should keep them around. Often what has happened for me is that because they shine a light on my condition I appreciate them but I also fear them and push them away.

>>14053156
Very good analysis

>>14050227
Just pretend to be a good person for the rest of your life.

>>14054493
Thanks anon. I only ever get to write about this stuff here on lit

>>14055757
unironically not a bad idea if i just want to reduce the damage i cause others. fake it till you make it

>>14055761
meant for
>>14055222

>>14042926
Can still pull her hair, don’t see a problem

>>14042765
Bro ok we get it you're "cool" you don't need anyone bro nobody cares just fuck off and go find validation somewhere else man this isn't twitter we're not going to reply "Big mood" or some faggot ass shit like that, just die.

>>14055780
Not what I meant and is a genuine question. But yes I do make myself seem cool irl for feelings this way. Fuck you nigger

>>14042765
You're fag

>>14056158
fuck you