/lit/ - Literature

>>14040324
Why, sure, I'll give this comfy thread a bump.

I am legitimaley curious about you alleged chrsitians
Assuming you are not just following the neo-con fad, you seem to find true solace in this metaphysical paternal figure...

I received a strict catholic education so God was more an invisible, omniscient, ever disapproving Eye for me. A word always associated with guilt and restrictions I was all too happy to be rid of as I got older. I honestly can't relate to the OP.

>>14040640
I was a Catholic convert and found it consoling but intellectually untenable (not saying that about Catholics in general, just that my faith was sophistic).

>>14040640
I was also raised Catholic, and when I was younger that disgust in catholic guilt drove me to atheism. As the years go by, I find myself softening towards Christianity again. I think catholic guilt, while overbearing at times can be a good barometer for your actions. I'm not a traditionalist or conservative by any means, but I can see the value in such a moral ideology and I feel like it's helped me become a better person. Also exposing myself to religious art has contributed my changing views on spirituality. There must be something truly rewarding offered by religion if it can inspire people to create truly beautiful works. Funny enough, I no longer care whether there's a god or not. I see the value in religion regardless

I don't understand what 'worship' actually entails, or why one should do it.

>>14040640
In terms of probability it is better to believe in god, for when we die we can at least have the possibility to enter the kingdom of god, as long as he exists of course.

>>14040640
Theres a comfort in praying to the Lord, knowing that hes there and loves you.
I can see where one might become frustrated by the idea "if you don't act exactly this way you will go to hell"
Its why I don't subscribe to the idea that what we do determines where we go. It is our belief that determines where we go, and our belief and knowledge of where we are going that determines our actions.

Im a man. Im imperfect and a sinner. I can always try to do better, but I can never be perfect. Even Saints revered by the churches like Paul and Peter were both imperfect.
Paul turned in Christians regularly for execution
Peter denied knowing Jesus and went back to fishing after Jesus died rather than building Christ's church as hed wanted. It took Jesus speaking to them to get them to change their ways. They did not change their ways and then see God.

As I said, Im imperfect, and cannot live up to what Jesus did. But, I can try to do better, and I want to because I know I have been forgiven by the Lord even though I am undeserving. And its nice to know, that despite my failures, God still loves me and wants me to do better.

Really, its a relief to know God is there, and that he is motivating me to do better because its whats right, not because if I don't I wont go to Heaven.

God gets me through every day and I don't know what I'd do without him.

>>14040662
>I see the value in religion regardless
I think I am approaching this...I have difficulty believing, but I've found the faith of some of those around me sincere and moving, beyond ingrained superstition

also religious art, oh yes

>>14040654
>>14040662
>Catholic
Why do Catholics feel the need to make graven idols and worship pagan heaven queens?

>>14040640
"[36] Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets."

This is the sum of Christian morality as far as I can tell, and I don't understand all the guilt derived from it.

>>14040667
cheeky monsieur Pascal

>>14040697
damnit this better not be pasta

>>14040728
Its not a pasta anon, I really did write it with all sincerity.

>>14040728
Based Pascal reader my negro

>>14040705
Pageantry. There's power to be found in pageantry and aesthetics. Especially 2000 years ago when people were more open to mysticism

>>14040753
pretty much this
also check out Huxley's Heaven and Hell for more on the mystic purpose of pageantry (jewels, architecture, fine dress, you name it)

>>14040733
thank you my nigga

>>14040697

Thank you for the beautiful post. I think you have a good understanding of our relationship with God. I would go on to say that we simply cannot know who goes to hell but we can get an idea based off of the holy texts. That being said, God loves to forgive us and worship is the most beautiful practice mankind has.

>>14040705
Somehow this board is angry at Catholicism for both both too Pagan and not Pagan enough at the same time.

>>14040324
This is a nice post. I'm not theistic, but I do think that such beliefs can certainly bring solace and contentment to people. The key thing, however, is that if you're believing more for your personal benefit from it rather than genuine conviction of it - the metaphysical belief serving you, and not you serving it - then it would be arbitrary which belief you adhere to, since virtually any could achieve the general effect. You could believe in Jesus, you could believe in Vishnu, you could believe in the Great Spirit, or any number of entities, and the end would be the same. And I'd personally prefer if theists simply took that approach, rather than firstly deciding their faith to be literally true and secondly alerting others to the falsehoods of their own beliefs. Though I personally believe in a more abstract conception of the Divine, bypassing worship altogether.

>>14040324
>Worshipping muh waifu makes one happy in a uniquely nourishing way
Again, and again, and again
This is not your fucking blog christcuck

>>14040640
I was raised similarly but replace 'God' with the word 'Society'. My parents were communist refugees and so even as a kid it was constant stories of neighbors spying on each other and turning them into the police where theyd be locked up for 10 years on trumped up charges. Seriously you could just hate your neighbor and call the govt and say 'they are a foreign spy' and it would be like a year of prison before you even got to trial. So growing up my whole life I was raised to believe in the omnipotence of society at large, this idea that the laws that are chosen are arbitrary, that following the law guarantees nothing, and in truly abstract terms it is completely true. If society around you just arbitrarily decided that it wanted you dead, you can't do anything about it, if it decides to torture you, you can't do anything about it, etc. We all take for granted that we are part of a community but we are increasingly atomised and at the mercy of this great watchful eye of society and whomever it deems unsuitable.
In contrast the idea of a god that simply asks for your love is far more comforting.

>>14040324
>I sure hope you're not worshiping that one semitic demon, the god of the jews by the name of YHVH, anon!

>>14040722
"If you break a rule, something bad needs to happen to you" seems to be the thought behind it, "Why should people follow a rule if there is no punishment for breaking it?". They don't understand that breaking the rule is itself the punishment, that the crime and the punishment are the same, that there is nothing worse in this world than to move farther and farther away from God. You beat the man that is already down - but people have always been man-eating beasts to a certain extent.

>>14040640
I was baptized orthodox but raised nonreligious. After my teen years of being edgy I discovered that there is a call in all men towards beauty, love and betterment of our souls.

Some follow this call in art, others in science, others overindulge and end up loving themselves while others wish to cover it's source in vices, travel and fame. But the source is one: the first thing God has written in man's heart upon creating him was "love your Creator". This metaphor is an expression of the intrinsic link between Creature and Creator; between manifestations and Source.

Personally I believe that Catholicism has prepared this bleak, cold view which today Science holds as uniquely reasonable. The divorce which scholasticism made between transcendence (God being above things) and immanence (God being in all things) has virtually set the stage for the personification of God as an Absolute Absent Father figure, which is very one-sided and thoroughly unrealistic

You can call God whatever you want: Life, Love, the World, Nature, Alien Buddha or by other names; it makes no difference: none will truly encompass what God is. The life which we live was not given by ourselves; so the least we can do is to recognize faith not as an obligation or abstract choice, but as the basis of our being: gratitude and the continual recognition of our limits - the only things which can open us space to truly grow.

>>14042383

>rather than firstly deciding their faith to be literally true and secondly alerting others to the falsehoods of their own beliefs. Though I personally believe in a more abstract conception of the Divine, bypassing worship altogether

I believe you should not end up judging whole millennia of philosophy, theology and practice just because the majority of people today uphold extremism and self-worship first and second while faith third.

>Though I personally believe in a more abstract conception of the Divine, bypassing worship altogether.

I would agree but this somewhat eliminates the idea of God all-together; it's no different from just saying that Nature is there and not wishing to engage with it's existence/origin/telos further.

The fact that Christianity spread like wildfire was less because of meme-crusades and more because it revealed that between God and us there exists a personal relationship - between each man/soul and God/it's Creator.

You are tending to view religious practice through the eyes of critics or blasphemers - those who either see it as solely as submission and understand worship as some pagan rite for appeasement. Christianity has changed that - no matter how far it's Church officials behave or practice it today. The revelation is alive in all man's hearts: love. We need but follow it

>>14040640

>>14040640
>I received a strict catholic education so God was more an invisible, omniscient, ever disapproving Eye for me


You received a profane conditioning which has more to do with our projection into God than God's reflection into us. Understand this and move further; forgive the sins of powerful men who are weak and caught by darkness.

invisible, omniscient and ever-disapproving is not God, but our eyes as we look upon the mirror of our shame and guilt; of having continuously rejecting God for knowledge, fame and feelings as transient as the dust which holds us whole, for now.

>>14042486
cool story
what do you eat and/or wear?

>>14042544
The concept of blasphemy dates back to the Mosaic Commandments, is firmly seen in Jesus's words, and is not remotely a modern concept. The exclusivity of the Christian God is undeniable from every angle, from the very founding of the religion. Secondly, I never expanded on my personal views, and don't simply worship "nature as God". I never even remotely suggested that Christianity or worship was about submission or appeasement. I am not sure where you've read all of these beliefs into my words. My only point is that earnest worship serves the heart of the believer, and cannot be shown to appease any kind of entity outside of that, nor does it need to. I won't elaborate my own views, but they're non-dual and do not require dichotomy of worshipper-worshipped.

>>14042605
Meat and hermelin; the one I wear, the other goes into my stomach.

>>14042383

My post addresses this in asserting that the experience is objective but subjectively idealized. Thats to say, all thesits experience the same Divine, but the ideologies they associate with it, as well as characterizations of it, are subjective. I will say that worship of the Divine is necessarily self-serving, and He knows this. For example, in the Qur'an, Allah repeatedly tells the reader that worship of Him is for their own benefit, and that He Himself is not requring of it or calling us to it for His satisfaction. I personally worship out of obligation, but on a secondary level it is also the most fulfilling practice and state of being in my life. We must also distinguish faith from religion, as I define faith simply as the perpetual awareness of the Divine or Absolute's existence as well as ones duty onto its worship for their highest sustenance, amongst other things of course. Religion is separate from this. Surely the taoists, jews, and and buddhists all have faith if they recognize the illusory nature of this world and the existence of an Absolute, as well as the necessity of cultivating a relationship with it.

>>14042663
I agree with this understanding.

>>14042610
>The concept of blasphemy (..) is not remotely a modern concept
Never said it was. It applies fully across history regardless of sect or the degree of secularized thought

>The exclusivity of the Christian God is undeniable from every angle, from the very founding of the religion
I would disagree here; the Christian God is an expression of the same, Unique God which is the kernel of almost every faith; the only difference is that Judeo-Christianity being the most influential religious movement in history (influencing both political and scientific developments) is the most "vocal" one today - and thus the most vulnerable to critics.

>never expanded on my personal views
never asked for it. you just generalized theism as being defined by zealotism. I said I agree that while most people do that today (and have done over history) that does not mean that the problem lies with the core of religious theism, rather with the way it is put into practice and understood by most of it;s figures and adherents.

but I tend to agree more now that I think about it: the fact that theism tends to breed fundamentalism is a problem in itself.

>dichotomy of worshipper-worshipped.
well that's the problem, but to each his own. I find that the more we pursue nondualism the more dual we are, and viceversa. not recognizing that humans are ontologically fallen from God can very easily lead to the dismantlement of the soul and understanding salvation as either self-identification and/or void

but as you said
>I won't elaborate my own views
feel free to rejoice in your distinguished anonymity.

>>14042605
>what do you eat and/or wear?
Irrelevant. I don't have any strong convictions regarding any of these; balance is key; life is not a graveyard

>>14042733
you mumble about god and creation and yet can't bring yourself to minimize the unneeded harm you create for other beings?
life may just not be a graveyard, but the bodies of people who act like that sure are. graveyards and slaughterhouses

>>14042768
Anon, drinking water kills the microbial flora too, you know?

Stop projecting your hate; I didn't admit to eating veal raised in chains

>>14042880
how about veal raised in a 2 square meter cage? or chickens, ducks? all of that pain and exploitation just because the fruit of the land doesn't satisfy your greed and taste?

>>14042901
what about free living farm animals?

>>14042920
'free' and 'farm animal' are contradictions,first off. secondly, it's exploitation. using that logic, you could justify any form of exploitation by arbitrarily choosing a somewhat bigger confinement area and better standards of 'welfare'. but at the end of the day, they're still going to get killed when they wouldn't be profitable to keep alive anymore. they're specifically bred for certain attributes (to the point where their bones can't hold their weight as they grow morbidly large; this is the case with birds) and perpetuated as a species only for the commodity and greed of man.
and all it takes not to participate in that is choosing what you buy from the supermarket appropriately. you're not suddenly plunged into forced martyrdom.

>>14042978
But anon, plants are alive just as much as we are. Just because they have no eyes doesn't mean they are worth nothing. They are different from rocks and empty space; they move and breath and multiply. Surely you do not suggest eating plants as an alternative to eating food. There must be another way!

I am not totally facetious here. To live is to destroy. You cannot help but kill your surroundings. And the only way out is by killing yourself. What is one to do in this situation? Minimize the damage. OK. How do we do that? We eat plants instead of meat.
1) Why is eating plants better than eating meat?
2) What damages are caused by the large scale production of plants? Maybe the damage is greater than large scale meat production. I don't know.

>>14040324
Am I a heretic for liking gnosticism? I feel like the concept of a demiurge makes a lot of sense

>>14040640
>Assuming you are not just following the neo-con fad, you seem to find true solace in this metaphysical paternal figure...
The Source is a very clear metaphysical entity. Paternal is merely a human way of giving directions to it.
>I received a strict catholic education so God was more an invisible, omniscient, ever disapproving Eye for me.
I wonder.

>>14043056
>Maybe the damage is greater than large scale meat production. I don't know.
that would be physically impossible, since the entirety of humans on the planet consume around 5.2 billion gallons of water and eat 21 billion pounds. meanwhile the cows consume around 45 billion gallons of water and eat 135 billion pounds of food each day. other animals, not just humans, use energy, you know?
i think you can understand how the calorie input (mostly in the form of grains) it takes to grow a cow or a pig for two whole years, won't be matched by the laughable calorie output in the form of muscle and fat. and before you go on the 'grass fed/free range' route, it's even more damaging that grains.

>>14043181
*5.2 billion gallons of water and eat 21 billion pounds of food per day (for humans)

>>14043181
What about my first question. The one with plans being alive. Why can they be eaten? What about insects?

>>14043201
I think any sensible person would identify the applicability of moral rules specifically on creatures with an ability to feel pain and a state of consciousness (not to be confused with the 'rationality' of humans). bacteria and viruses don't feel pain, neither do plants. insects do feel pain but admittedly aren't as complex in terms of consciousness as mammals, for example. whether you would say that insects hold just the same amount of ethical consequence if you kill them as opposed to cows or pigs, it would be up to you. in this regard I'm not holding a moral barrier as in this case 'more conscious' and 'more complex' are indeed arbitrary, at least from the perspective possible for humans. to come back to what I've said earlier, I'm not telling you to become a monk and live on tree bark and potatoes, but merely taking a look at what can be done to reduce pain, suffering and exploitation; and the lifestyle changes that I was implying can be applied while maintaining virtually the same amount of commodity, getting better food quality (a complete organic plant diet, is cheaper than a non-organic diet with meat products; take note that even the most organic meat is filled with endo-toxins and animal hormones;)
if you're ever interesting in following such steps, you can take some time to watch this https://youtu.be/wxs7V0I2q1Q . the latter part of it which focuses on supplementation unfortunately wasn't up to date. so you can ignore all of it except for B12 and Iodine (neither are intrinsic to meat; B12 is produced by bacteria; from the studies done, the amount of water a human drinks per day would provide enough B12 if it came from an unsanitized source such as a river - obviously no one wants to do that anymore, and for obvious reasons; due to the poor soil in the modern day, iodine is found mainly in seafood, be it plant or other similar organisms, or animals). to cover the prices: a B12 supplement of around 10-50 micrograms daily is enough for most people except the elderly according to some studies; at this daily dose, you could buy several years supply for a whole neighbourhood at around 20 dollars (the most commonly sold form of b12 expiries in 2-3 years, though); iodine supplements are a bit more expensive, 20 dollars for a year dose for 1 person.
you can use cronometer.com to track calories, macros and nutrients, with the mention of lowering needed calcium intake to around 500mg (some sources even say that more than 300mg is enough), as they're upped by the dairy industry's influence over the USDA recommendations.

>>14043361
those characteristics of animals are indentified with the existence of a central nervous system, with certain degrees on complexity. bacteria, viruses or plants don't have any such CNS

>>14040640
there is no freedom except through Christ. we are slaves to our desires and impulses, mere automatons, but through the transformative power of Christ we can reclaim free will.

>>14043201
>>14043361
to give an example of such a complete diet: you can eat (i'll use uncooked/dry/raw measurements): 150g oats with some raisins, dates or other sweetener for breakfast; 100-150g of beans/lentils with 100-150g wheat equivalent of bread/pasta with vegetables such as spinach, kale or broccoli for lunch; 30-40 grams of sunflower seeds, 20-40 grams of flaxseed; complete with other foods to reach caloric adequacy and eat either 100g of carrots/sweet potatoes every day, or 400-500g every 4 days to ensure conversion of provitamin A carotenoids to vitamin A (these quantities assume the lowest studied conversion rates; from what I've also came across, healthy subjects may need only half or even one fourth of those quantities; )

There is an original god, so to speak. But this is merely the accidental force which gave rise to our universe. Heaven and hell are simply metaphors for one’s state of mind. To enter into the kingdom of heaven is simply to enter into complete peace and content with yourself and the world around you. There is no afterlife where you exist for an eternity. You are simply deluding yourself into these beliefs out of fear of the true horror that we live in a world without inherent meaning, one where there is no supernatural forces. It’s not coincidence that as time has professed we have less of these religious “prophets” and “miracles”. Maybe you retards should read a book on the prophets of mankind. My specific suggestion is “The Saviors of Mankind”, by william van buskirk. Reading this will give you the knowledge that religion is a tool employed in order to save a culture when it comes under threat, or used to gather a culture together to destroy a threat. Jesus became who he was out of necessity in order that he temper the zealots of the jewish faith from having their ethnicity completely obliterated by the Romans simply because they could stop antagonizing their conquerors. Religious tards are terribly sick, and hopefully some will eventually see the true light that is nihilism and ascendancy.

>>14043536

The nihilistic argument isnt just folly due to its misconstrued understanding of man's relationship with God, but in that it prioritizes an ideal of intellectual superiotity without guaranteed happiness over the promise of contentment that comes with seeking faith and worship. The nihilist should ask himself what is more valuable, an intellect which he may congratulate for posessing a rational capacity of apparent higher creed than the religious, or a heart which is satisfied with the nourishment of God and that provides him everlasting peace. Does the nihilist believe he can be perpetually sustained by another means, the how so? Regardless of one's belief on the validity of religion and mystical knowledge, it is practical to at least consider one's basis for not at least pondering the value of a subscription to a set of behaviors which those of whom have already reaped the benefits of, assure everyone that they may also have these rewards and be more satisfied with them than anything in the world. Please refer to the last two points of the OP as a basis on which you refute the claim, otherwise, you are avoiding the point.

>>14043536
>There is no afterlife where you exist for an eternity.
Maybe it should be understood like this: You are within God - because nothing is without God. Your body is made out of dust, but God's body is made out of everything.
>"You all are Gods"
>"Leave your life and you will gain true life".
You are part man and part God. If you leave behind your flesh, what will remain is the true life. That which can die you have given away, and that which cannot die you have kept.
>"I will give you eternal life. To gain eternal life, you must follow me. To follow me, you must give all of yourself away".
True life is in everyone, but most people do not realize this. They only look at their flesh and think "I will die!". But they do not think "That where I came from, that where I now reside, that where I will return to will not die". They think "Life means having a body". They do not realize that they themselves are part of that which gives and takes, that which is the true parent of all things.

>>14043536

That you admit the attainment of peace to be the highest goal in life, it is interesting that you would discount the devotional means of obtaining it, as this is the only means which promises the practicioner a perpetual access to peace and solace, not as generated by wholly intellectual poises as the stoics recommend, but as an intuitively and everlastingly accessible fountain of contentment which elates the soul to higher degrees of joy than any practice without it. If one believes that they can achieve the zenith of joy and contentment in life without worship, then they certainly fall into the condition described in the OP: one who grapples without certainty at fulfillment and is not guaranteed satisfaction. Faith of course is a promise of peace and those with faith are proven the surety of this promise time after time through their experiences. Whereas the nihilist clings to his argument on a wholly intellectual basis, without any semblance of experience to assure him that his path is worthwhile, for if the nihilist mindset cannot perform the functions promised of faith, then it is certainly less desirable. And of course one may delude themselves into believing otherwise, but im sure you know if your lifestyle is as fulfilling as that of faith is described.

>>14040665
I'm not sure myself, but I think of it as something like "remembering that He is greater". It's the recognition of the relationship that constitutes worship, regardless of how you express it. I think.

>>14040753
>when people were more open to mysticism
why did that stop? I find that most arguments for the faith are formulated for people who are polytheists, not people who... don't believe? Believe in material benefits? Believe that their sensory stimuli is everything? before I found faith I felt a real burning need for meaning. maybe they do too? Or maybe the steady stream of innovation is unpredictable enough that you can actually believe it is enough in itself for salvation? Like Star Trek. Maybe that's what they believe

>>14043373
>discover this
>discover that free will is probably what is meant when it is said that God breathed some of his nature into us
>realize that there is in me a "first principle", a thing which is because it is
>lose my footing
this ends my blogpost, thank you for coming.

>>14043827
You can be a nihilist and happy you pedantic faggot. Actually, truly understanding there is no omnipotent force which judges your every move in a bid for some eternal afterlife is more freeing than anything you could possibly imagine. With death comes release, and peace knowing I may sleep forever. Subscribing to a religion is slave morality which has never stood the test of time. Look at how Christianity crumbles in light of our fully topologized universe. You have no ability to rationalize a supernatural force, or spirit, or essence. You’re essentially a madman who clings into faith in a desperate attempt to give your own life meaning. Ironically, you are the nihilist in that you need some supernatural doctrine in order to give yourself some sort of purpose to live a good life. Imbecile.
>>14043899
And? Just because I am made from the particles of dust from a millenia ago does not attribute my life to something supernatural or greater than myself. You are a slave to your ego in that you believe yourself to be some great culmination of life, when it’s the opposite in that humans have done nothing but search for ways to abandon our humanity for greater self-existence. We use the automobile to transcend human ability, we reject that which we are. Realize humans are as sentient as the sun; each possesses a will to continued existence and nothing more. You really give no basis of an argument other than saying we are part god, which I inherently agree with. Doesn’t mean anything though, as god was an accident, the only true accident which sets in motion our life destined to fate. >>14043904
If you need to practice a faith in order that you might obtain some peace and meaning to live a good life, you’re an utter failure of a human. You can have satisfaction without faith because faith is a placeholder for a world with no reason. You fight against your own struggles, knowing that you must believe otherwise you yourself find no meaning. Faith is for the intellectually retarded who cannot muster the ability to rationalize the world around them. You are abjectly the remembrance of a primitive people who are going extinct. Of course, you have no idea what you’re talking about, anyway. You believe that happiness can only be achieved through some bullshit term called “faith”.

>>14044521
help me with this >>14044280

>>14044280
> before I found faith I felt a real burning need for meaning
You admit that without faith in a supernatural force that your life has no meaning, whereas those without faith and are happy understand that with death their suffering eternally ends. Face the fact life has no objective purpose other than to exist. Otherwise you quite seriously believe in a fairytale that existed in a time 3,000 years ago in order to rationalize humans ability to wield fire, witness natural disasters which seemed to defy nature they couldn’t fully comprehend, etc. Religion was the placeholder for those in primitive times who needed an escape from how harsh reality really is. They are weak beings. Your ancestors 50,000 years ago had no faith. The only thing they cared about was surviving. Religion is something used to help people survive. Of course, you can survive without religion with ease, but it takes self-drive towards a goal with which you can apply your whole energy towards, something which most people are unable to do simply because they lack the care to do so in a world of unlimited comfort and pleasure.

>>14044581
sorry if this gets a bit clinical but it's very helpful for me
do you hope to be remembered in death?
do you believe there is something as "objective good", and if you do do you then believe that belief in an afterlife could affect how willing someone is to do objective good?

>>14044609
>do you hope to be remembered in death?
I could hope, but everything passes in time. Even Jesus is becoming a distant memory of the past.
>do you believe there is something as "objective good"
Only in the sense that “good” is considered what is beneficial towards the continuation of society as a whole. Otherwise “good” can manifest as something like rape in that the rape ensures the survival of my genetics, which if I view survival of my genetics as the uttermost importance, than that rape is good.
>and if you do do you then believe that belief in an afterlife could affect how willing someone is to do objective good?
I don’t believe in an afterlife. Time may be on an infinite loop in which we are destined to repeat reality, but as far as I’m concerned there is no higher plane of existence to which we should believe a supernatural part of ourselves transcends into upon the cessation of our electrical brain activity.

>>14044521
>Just because I am made from the particles of dust from a millenia ago does not attribute my life to something supernatural or greater than myself.
Not the dust, not the dust, dont think about the dust, oh those bloody particles! God damn that little hinge that connects the Self to the body, that squeaky impertinent thing! --- What am I, pray tell? Some brain-generated voice pointing to itself with its crooked finger? That bugger! Was there ever a truth so full of lies?! Your body is your body and not your body, dont you see? Its as clear as day! There is no divider between you and the empty space in your room and those dusty shelves and the window and the starless, yellow tinted sky with a little red dotted airplane in it! no divider at all. The Self is like a three lettered word jumping out of the dictionary and calling itself language. Just because that which controls your body does not control the stars, does not mean that you and the stars are not the same thing! So we are particles after all! you yell. No, you bloody boob! Forget about the particles! This whole mess of particles is swirling round and round in a bottle; and if anything you are both the particles and the bottle and the swirling. And now imagine that bottle standing on a shelf: the particles are moving, but the bottle is just standing there, waiting for nothing to happen forever. Bottle knows no time. Time makes no sense when all you do is waiting. There is no movement. Only a storm in the bottle. You say you are just particles million years old. True, true. But you are also the bottle infinite.

>>14044521

>You can be a nihilist and happy

If you say so !

>>14044664
I, and I'm sure many with me, would argue that religion is only the directing of our efforts towards the greatest societal good, and in a way that reinforces itself rather than withers away (you say Christianity is dying, but it is 2000 years old).

do you believe in any kind of "karmic" mechanism, where choices in a given frame ("frame" in the sense of a situation) affect future frames in ways that are intangible? for instance like they shape the person, if you will?

>>14044521

But consider that you openly admit to placing higher value on a life of intellectual strife and impetuosity with no avail and it is justified solely by “it’s rational and superior". You claim to value intellectual righteousness over easily accessible peace. At the very least think about whether this actually satisfies you. I don’t to go back and forth and make you upset with me, just think about it for yourself you know? Does this philosophy truly satisfy you, do you feel that you have arrived at a gratifying conclusion? You don’t have to tell me but just think man.

>>14044712
>do you believe in any kind of "karmic" mechanism, where choices in a given frame ("frame" in the sense of a situation) affect future frames in ways that are intangible?
Free will does not exist. We live in a world of mathematical fate.
>you say Christianity is dying
You think it isn’t? Mysticism is dead and so with it goes Christianity.
>I, and I'm sure many with me, would argue that religion is only the directing of our efforts towards the greatest societal good
Yeah, sure. Do you need religion to be a good person? If so, why? Do dogs need religion? Does a cat need to believe in a god to be happy?
>>14044746
This philosophy satisfies me because what is satisfying is knowing that I am god, you are god, the sun is god, and my dog is god. We are all the continuation of the primordial god force, but that doesn’t mean I should need to think any further than that recognition. I’m still a degenerate manwhore who has sex whenever he wants, takes hedonistic pleasure in being a bodybuilder, a scholar who studies the fundamental principles of our universal logos, etc. I am happy because I am me, and I’m fulfilled because I’m being the best person I can be. This ain’t the force of god. It’s the force of existence. I exist and that’s enough.

>>14044872
>Do dogs need religion? Does a cat need to believe in a god to be happy?
we believe there is a fundamental difference. the understanding is that we are the only things that have a choice in the matter, and that everything else is good with God by default. we are the only creatures that can be truly wretched. I am convinced we have free will in some few situations, moments when we remember or don't remember to do good. whether or not we remember is affected by how we've chosen to live until that point (the understanding is that God blinds people who reject Him to the nature of what happens around them and the choices they are making), but there is also an element of pure choice. this means that a good life reinforces itself as God opens up your heart. it is also the only reason we can have any responsibility, which is a pretty central societal good.

the best argument I can make against the brain-chemicals theory is to study enlightenment teaching. there is more to being a human than earth and water, and it can be discovered.

>>14044923
>this means that a good life reinforces itself as God opens up your heart.
which I and many people who have found faith can testify to

>>14042363
Atheists and anti-christians basically frame the discussion so that Christians are punished for both adhering to their own teaching and for being reasonably flexible about them as well.
Typical narcissistic behaviour.

>>14042473
This so much.

>>14040640
>neo-con
I don't think you understand what that means.

>>14040324
This thread isn't about literature, why did you post it here?

>>14044972
It's writing.

>>14044980
That's not the focus of the thread, no.
>If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities,go to /his/

>>14044581
>Your ancestors 50,000 years ago had no faith.
Citation needed

>>14044872
>Do you need religion to be a good person?
Yes, because no definition of "good" is worth half a shit if it's not grounded in the uncontingent.
>It’s the force of existence.
Where does that force come from, dummy?

>>14045004

It’s philosophy.

>>14040324
Are you a member of one of the Latin or Celtic races, by chance?

>>14045032
No, it's not

>>14045076

No

>>14045084

>>14045094
What are you, if you don't mind sharing?

>>14045096
Enjoy getting your thread deleted

>>14045099

A black Muslim.

>>14045094
>>14045159
Stop pretending to be OP faggot

>>14042429
This. Why would you worship one God that represents nothing when you can worship many that represent real things, including nature, virtue, human instincts, understanding, tradition and heritage?

>>14043361
based veganfag.

Not a Christian, but I admire them...I read Schopenhauer and became convinced that compassion is the basis of ethical behaviour. Then I saw a video of industrial farming and I've been vegan since. It's not the killing that I am against. It's the needless suffering. We have created hell on earth for millions of creatures and it makes me ashamed of humanity.

>>14044923
>the understanding is that we are the only things that have a choice in the matter
Too bad you don’t. Free will does not exist and you will never be able to prove its existence.
> I am convinced we have free will in some few situations
Yeah? and how does this supernatural autonomy work? It breaks the fundamental process of brain schematics. Your arguments are based all from ego which holds no intrinsic truth. You lost you christian retard.

>>14045016
The definition of good is subjective and it always will be. Kill your self brainlet.

>>14045007
Logically speaking apes couldn’t think abstractly, they only knew survival. They didn’t need religion to survive much as we don’t need religion to survive today. Religion is an attempt to rationalize the meaningless existence you currently experience.

>>14046466
That's just like your opinion man.
>>14046471
Mankind is older than 50k years.
>Religion is an attempt to rationalize the meaningless existence you currently experience.
>Everything I say is meaningless
>Therefore exiatence is not meaningless.
Self refutation strikes again.

bump

>>14040667
>>14040728

>>14042363
>appropriates my culture
>does so after burning all the religious history and spiritual knowledge of my ancestors
>still does it wrong

Yeah, Christians can fuck off from several different angles.

>>14046461
>Yeah? and how does this supernatural autonomy work?
first of all it teleologically answers for a deep seated need. Human beings are created with socila needs that necessitate responsibility. You are free to believe what you will, but consider the possibility of a truth to purpose. You can not believe that if everyone was a nihilist this would be a good, and you can not believe yourself to be the master of even physical reality.

you can mystically separate the Observer from the observed. Read the Gita anon, it presents this aspect of religion very clearly even though I strongly disagree with its morals (I believe they misunderstand the nature of heaven).

also watch this when you have the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRPqtGywkCw&list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi&index=2
and remember than in Genesis God breathes some of His nature into us

>>14047452
indeed, why I have moved from faith to religion is because I find there is nothing else which could uphold a moral code, nothing but Gods will. All else shall pass into oblivion.

>>14047358
Sad salty pagancuck

>>14047452
Free will does not exist and you cannot price that it does. You’re an imbecile and a retard. You’re argument is wholly lacking any sort of concrete foundation to prove of a supernatural autonomy inherent within a person that allows them to make decisions based outside of stimuli.

>>14047358
This 100%

>>14047358
>muh ancestors
>muh cultural appropriation
Pagans are just the sjws of the right

>>14048049
What about making decisions inside stimuli?

>>14048049
one day He will show you that your choices, the choices You made, mattered.

>>14040640
(Speaking as ex-christian)
I grew up in a secular church, more akin to orthodox Christianity. My biggest takeaway was the notion of being able to be completely done with sinning (if completely resigning worldly ambition and entrusting all to god). Even as a kid, most of life's ordeals seemed tedious and absurd, such as jealousy, anger, sadness, fear, lying, keeping appearances and such. I just wanted to rise above it all and be done with it, and devoting myself to god gave me a sufficient reason to train myself to move past pettiness. I was actually pretty hardcore, praying myself to tears for forgiveness every night i had lost my temper against a sibling, and praying, which was in fact meditating, to not make the same mistake again. As i grew up i realized many of the things i just said had holes in them, and as i could not justify it anymore, i quit the church. But i believe i have retained some of the virtues i gained from believing, and from the Nietzsche quote: ''He who has a Why can overcome any How'', i do miss having a absolute and sufficient 'Why', even if i didn't realize it was flawed.

>>14049407
(Self reply)
Upon reflection, i would seem more of a stoicist even from childhood, but i don't see how one can get the relief and hope that comes from confessing to someone you love, respect and trust in stoicism. I get that one could confess to actual people, but i have yet to meet a person that doesn't judge, forgives all, keeps every secret, is a moral authority, and doesn't hit you back with their own confessions.

>>14048632
Give me an example where you act without prior stimuli input and that decision is not based off of already preconditioned operating contingencies. >>14049121
Bruh. I’m not discounting the notion of a god. There’s obviously an incidental force which created the observable universe and the unobservable. However, following the principles of darwinian natural selection, our universe is merely an accidental mutation which has provided the ability for existence to exist. If anything, I’m a calvinist and for that matter Im already saved. You need not believe in an active and omnipotent force to enter into eternal salvation. One
must only acknowledge the creator and his destiny he hath laid before you. All else is folly.

>>14040324
Ah yes. Avoidance of reality and placebo effect usually leads to such results.

>>14049645
true free will has to be unmoved by stimuli. it would have to be outside of the world of information, to be cut off completely. therefore it would be impossible to isolate and present, because it is heavenly, it is the reason we are made in Gods image. There is something to us which can not be contained or expressed.

I don't know much of Calvinism. do you believe in an afterlife?

>>14049779
There is no possibility of free will simply because free implies a lack of constraint, which there is always constraint. The universe can only manifest in constraint of properties.
>it is the reason we are made in gods image
What in the fuck are you babbling on about? Using mystic bullshit has no place in terms of discussing the underlying mechanisms of universal productions. You may technically argue “we are made in gods image” in that we are a continuation of an original point, but it’s redundant and only seeks to serve human ego in that it is the “final” evolution of material existence. Everything about is constrained and limited in scope. You still have yet to provide an example where autonomy exists outside of control and restraint.
>do you believe in an afterlife
yeah, it’s called death.

>>14047344
someone hasn’t read Pascal

>>14050266
Seems interesting, I'll try and read in the future.

>>14050250
Well, we both bow to Gods will. What we should do is compete and see who's philosophy creates the most goodness. You did say you cared about a societal greater good, so why not work toward one? In the end we will know who was more right.

>>14050320
I agree, I like competition. However, how do you interpret what is necessary to do for a greater societal good? Does the ends justify the means?

>>14050375
always look to what God has revealed for guidance and remember that He prefers mercy over sacrifice, and acknowledgement of Him over burnt offerings. Strive to be his most faithful servant, be willing to give of that which you value most. If you do these things you do your part toward the greater societal good. This is my belief.