/lit/ - Literature

>>14017295
A big red dot

>>14017295
London engrand

What country wrote war and peace, that shit was epic

>>14017295
And it's not even close desu senpai

>>14017295
America.

>>14017295
Obviously the French.

Cross of Saint George

>>14017295
The Star of David.
Jew writers
Cervantes
Montaigne
Philip Roth
The Bible
Anne Frank
Salinger
Kafka
*Vonnegut
Proust
Miller
List goes on

>>14017355
Cervantes wasn't Jewish.

>>14017295
S.P.Q.R.

Rome.

No language has a better, nor a more superior literary, philosophical, theological and historical tradition than Latin.

>>14017295
>What goes here?
All the European f(l)ags

>>14017379
Do some research anon

>>14017444
Prove it.

>>14017495
Uhm. Where was Cervantes from, mainly an old Jew town that more than half of their population had to convert due to the pressure from the church... Cervantes based Don Quixote somewhat on himself, where does Quixote come from: La Mancha (The Stain) why the stain? Because it was seem as a stain on your reputation to be of Jewish ancestry. There are a lot of peer reviewed papers that have confirmed. Just google it!

>>14017295
Best art belongs to the French

>>14017516
The are many theories about the name La Mancha but none of them are related to Jews.

>>14017516
>Foreign writer was a Jew because modern-day Jewish researchers from Berkeley say so

>>14017295
But music and lit are also art...

>>14017535
classic gentile cope. when will they learn their place in this world.

>>14017540
Music is more a craft that pretends to be art by a reliance on the exterior, non-musical elements of literature/philosophy, etc., that were developed explicitly to qualify visual art in the Renaissance. "Music is art" is an ahistorical lie. Visual and written art are qualified by that word and image are two different ways of describing the metaphysical being (the logos) at the heart of all artistic endeavor since the time it was given a secular theory in the Renaissance.

>>14017516
>A bunch of retarded academics who need to justify their professors chair bend over themselves to make a pants on head retarded argument about Cervantes being a crypto-Jew based on faulty semantic reasoning despite the fact that Cervantes was given the limpieza de sangre seal by officials.
Also partial Jews like Prouts and Montaigne (is that even proven?) don't count as Jewish. That's /pol/ logic. Why the fuck is Vonnegut even on your list?

>>14017535
>>14017533

You are right anons. I give up. Montaigne it’s not Jew either nor Alfonso de B

>>14017295
Russia. Is there any country with a better big three than Dosto, Tolstoy, and Pushkin?

>>14017295
Italy again.
>>14017595
Man, you're an idiot and you need to get out of high school core already.
>>14017340
France is a good choice but I think Italy beats them.

>>14017595
Yeah, Whitman, Melville, Henry James.

>>14017636
I would put Faulkner above James, but that's just quibbling I guess.

Change art to Netherlands and England for lit

>>14017622
Dante is overrated

>>14017674
1. No, he isn't.
2. Dante isn't the only Italian writer. Italy has produced for centuries, and for millennia if we include Roman civilization in the region.

>>14017595
Shakespeare, Milton, Chaucer

>>14017688
>has produced for centuries
and has precious little to show for it desu

>>14017689
Man, that BTFO's those trash russkys so hard lmaooo doesn't even compare, literally makes the russians look infantile

>>14017595
Homer, Homer, Homer.

>>14017688
Romans literally wrote nothing but Greek fan-fiction.

>>14017703
Dante alone beats everything the Russians have made combined. Cope harder, Igor (even though you're probably an American who can't get Igor's penis out of your mouth).

>>14017721
kek russians have made nothing but jewish fanfiction

>>14017516
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Mancha

>>14017295
There's a reason it's called the Great American Novel

>>14017295
every single one should be france

>>14017403
Even the Romans knew Greek is superior.

>>14017563
o caca

>>14017743
French art is trash
French music is trash

Fight me Pierre

>>14017725
>Dante, Dante, Dante, Dante
sorry mario, italian lit is spain-tier

>>14017622
>France is a good choice but I think Italy beats them.
19th century French lit alone is better than Italy's entire output.

>>14017768
france was the forefront of the romantic/20th century movement in both art and music. symbolism/surrealism/decadentism/impressionism/fauvism/dadaism etc were all born in france. not to count the composers in les six, les apaches, debussy etc.

also im a burger

>>14017780
t. guy with cumbrain whose attention span didn't get him past the inferno

>>14017725
Dante is just one writer. We're talking an entire body of Literature. France is superior to Italy in this regard.

>>14017784
We have different taste. I think France's best work was primarily medieval and wasn't even written in French. I wouldn't be upset if France was chosen though. Lots of good stuff from the country.

>>14017793
>Dante is just one writer.
Of course, but look at Italian's body of literature. It's impeccably good. Anonymous is probably the greatest writer of all time and he wrote literal tomes of poetry.

>>14017798
I hope I don't come off as a Dante hater, I love the guy and his work. To me, he's the best writer ever. But as a body, I prefer the French. Cheers, lad.

>>14017785
>France
>Forefront of Romanticism
Absolutely wrong
>symbolism/surrealism/decadentism/impressionism/fauvism/dadaism
Impressionism I'll give you. Surrealism was pan-european and the others are literally who tier
>not to count the composers in les six, les apaches, debussy etc.
Sorry but the French can not compete with the Germans at all when it comes to music. They can't even compete with the Russians or Italians for that matter.

the Chinese

>>14017813
>Surrealism was pan-european
andre breton was literally french. he wrote the surrealist manifesto. all of the major figures besides dali were french

>the others are literally who tier
because you don't know art. dadaism lead to surrealism. matisse (one of the most famous french artists) was a fauvist, symbolism was one of the most important artistic movements ever (originated from baudelaire and was developed by mallarme and verlaine--who was also a decadent--) i guess in the visual arts symbolism is more widespread but the actual movement began in france.

>>14017813
>who is André Breton
Surrealism was literally invented by the French. The word itself is French. It was all always about France and some foreign guests, not "look, all of Europe can do this!" The surrealists had their meetings in Paris.

>>14017835
actually my bad. ernst was german and magritte was belgian. duchamp, yves tanguy and other were all french though. the movement was centered in france and artists frequently met there

>>14017622
suck my fat cock how bout that btichass

>>14017813
>Sorry but the French can not compete with the Germans at all when it comes to music. They can't even compete with the Russians or Italians for that matter.
Not him, but it's because of the nature of the language. Who would've thought that always stressing the last vowel could stunt your musical sense.

>>14017295
Germany

>>14017865
Too scarce. Austria beat them in the 20th century.

>>14017831
>technology
>science
>China
???

>>14017295
italy goes in all 3

the fuck who listens to german music hahaha

>>14017866
>Austria
same thing

>>14017869
based

>>14017870
You wish, kraut.

Britbongland wins the lit category, Shakespeare tips the balance. France is a good second though.

>>14017869
Italian music is gay. German music is for men. Same thing with the language. You literally can't refute this.

>>14017875
Modern Austrian identity is literally an Allied invention. Before that they were just Germans who who hailed to Franz Joseph instead of Willy.

>>14017875
The Austrian literature must be considered in close connection with German literature in general, and the borderline between proper German literature and the Austrian one is porous, due to rich and complex cultural exchanges.

>>14017295
America (duh)

>>14017295
The British and American flag, English language literature is the most fulfilling varied. A lot of good authors to choose from, Russia in 2nd place, France in 3rd, and no-one comes close after that.

>>14017892
You should've said German literature then (as in German-language), but you simply said Germany.

>>14017904
t. Burger who prenteds to ejaculate with a Brit cock

Okay, I updated it.

>>14017911
who gives a shit. op is asking for countries. Germany is the modern day country

>>14017919
>t. monolingual
I’m not even a burger, I’ve just read 19th and 20th Century American and British literature and it definitely has very similar themes, compared with French or German literature of the same era it is very different. American lit is linguine. British is spaghetti, while German is baked zeti and French is rigatoni.

>>14017339
good joke

>>14017295
The only right answer.

>>14017939
Then you are a dilettante who hasn't ventured into Italian literature if you claim that "nothing else comes close". Nigger, Italy is waaaay superior to Burgerland in terms of literature.

>>14017879
german music is for soulless bugmen

>germany
>art

bahahahahahaha you have to be joking

>>14017968
it says Best music, Giovanni.

>>14017968
Netherlandish art>>>>>>>>>>>>>German art>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Italian "art"

>>14017964
You're thinking German humor. German music has lots of soul.

>>14017976
id usually agree but italy has based de chirico

>>14017976

Come on sweetie, that's just not true.

>>14017973
music, lit and visual art is all art

>>14017962
I’m arguing that burgerland lit and British lit can be lumped together into the same category in the same way Austrian, German Swiss, and regular German literature can be. And that the corpus that is the global English language literature is best over the corpus of other nation’s literatures. I do not know Italian, but I am learning Spanish rn and also know French so it will be easy to learn, but I really doubt Italian literature can come close purely due to me having never heard much of it, but I could be wrong, but the Italian’s thing is definitely visual art.

lol the only thing germans are good at is engineering, any sort of creative endeavour they remain cold and soulless nietzsche himself admitted this

>>14017983
>da Vinci

>>>/r/eddit is that way anon

>>14017976
cope

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_painters

>>14017994

>>14017987
Here clearly refers to the plastic arts (sculpture and painting).

>>14017991
Get ready to forgeT Burger "literature", lad. You're in for a treat.

>>14018003
and my statement clearly refers to german art as generalised concept (sculpture, painting, literature, music)

>>14018008
German music and literature is great. Not sure what you're bitching about.

>>14018006
I hope so

I want to say Russian but I haven't actually read any. Where should I start

>>14018013
germans are the chinks of europeans, soulless bugmen, their art literature and music is a direct expression of this. if you disagree it is because you are probably a soulless german

>>14017295
Kekistan.
no lit beats the copypastas I've read on here

>>14018024
those are the slavs but yeah nordoids are pretty bad too

>>14018024
t. hasn't read anything beyond normie shit

>>14018035
share some

>>14018024
You don't know shit or you're just a retarded shitposter.
>>14018038
>nordoids
>implying Germans are Scandinavian
Go back to /his/ faggot

>>14017595
This omits Goncharov

>>14018049
cope

>>14018035
The thing Alaska did next scared and shocked and surprised me in a way nothing had ever ever scared or shocked or surprised me until that moment, a moment which lasted no longer than one sharp intake of breath but one I have no doubt will last my entire life. She said 'I love you'. Not 'You're cool' or 'I had a really fun time' or 'Do you always kiss like that?' I love you. As in 'I, Alaska Young, love you, Miles Halter'. As in 'I Alaska Young have not only noticed that you Miles Halter exist but I positively adore the fact that you do'. I exhaled. Alaska did too and for the first time I realized she was as scared as I was of admitting the way she felt. I stepped forward and held her hips. 'Are you sure?' I asked. 'I think so!' she replied, smiling. I must have pushed her backwards because just then her body nudged the lightswitch and the room became as dark as my life was without Alaska in it. Laughing, she slipped out of my grasp and disappeared somewhere inside the room. I reached out like a blind man searching for the object that might grant him sight. Truly, I was Looking for Alaska.

>>14018060
Not an argument

>>14018045
>go to local book store
>pick up Mein Kampf, Lolita, and The God Delusion
>light up a stogie while waiting in line
>thumb through all the expensive knick-knacks next to the checkout, knocking several onto the floor, and telling my fellow line-waiters to "look at all this horseshit"
>finally get to the checkout
>array my books on the counter all facing up, facing towards the cashier, a chubby girl in her early 20s.
>she looks down at them and pauses, her mouth hangs open in disbelief as the fuhrer himself stares back up at her
>blow smoke in her face and ask "some kind of problem, toots?"
>she coughs and nervously stutters the name of the book, as if to verify that anyone could ever purchase it intentionally
>"yeah" I reply, and tapping the cover of Lolita with my finger while leaning over to her side of the counter.
>"and this one's about a pedophile"
>her face is now awash with fear and horror
>"oh my god" she mutters
>"God's dead, honey"
>everyone around us goes dead silent
>scoop up my books and leave with them under my arm, unpaid for

>>14018067
cope

>>14017595
>Dante, Petrarch, Boccaccio
>Cervantes, Quevedo, Calderón
>Rabelais, Baudelaire, Proust
>Chaucer, Shakespeare, Sterne

>>14017295
England
By the way, las Malvinas son argentinas ;^)

>>14017877
There's Shakespeare, then there's the mob. I don't think it is Britland that "created" him. I'm not that modern or post modern or whatever. Maybe he would have been Shakespeare as a German or Frenchman or Jew. But the fact remains, he was a Brit and we're all stuck with it. But for his sake, I'm glad English (such as it is now) is my mother tongue and I don't need a translation.

t. H. Bloom, RIP

>>14018090
Bloom's mother tongue wasn't English.

>>14018090
Yiddish?

>>14018098
Sorry, I answered myself. Still, bully for him for being able to get to Shakespeare so well. Maybe, but I will never know for myself, it is better to come from another language to truly appreciate the bard. Maybe that makes him a little less strange.

>>14018086
>By the way, las Malvinas son argentinas ;^)
The Anglos got there first, so no. They just happen to be near Argentina.

>>14017295
Italy in all 3 and it isn't even close

Music should be the American flag.

>>14017868
They're currently making inroads in science by not following ethical standards especially in medicine. They've made a couple of potential cancer breakthroughs in recent times but only by using drugs on human subjects way earlier than we would ever do.

>>14017879
>Italian music is gay.

As punishment for this obscenity I hereby sentence you to listen to the entire Scott Ross Domenico Scarlatti harpsichord sonata ouvre through, all 555 of them, 3 times! Do not come back here until you are finished!

>>14017355
>Anne Frank

1. Germany
2. France
3. Greece
4. Russia

And I’ll give an honorable mention to Czechia for producing a lot of great literature and poetry for its size.

>>14017636
>>14017637
None of these literally-who meme writers is ever discussed outside of the US.

The only reason Britain and the US are even mentioned in this thread is that it is full of mono-lingual brainlets.

>>14017307
Taiwan

>>14018181
>What did he mean by this?

>>14017295
>Best art
>Italy
embarassing

The answer is France on both art and lit

>>14017854
Could you elaborate? I'm curious

>french
>england
t. monolingualcucks
the real answer is spain

>Germany
>best music
Cringe. Unless you listen to music made before the 20th century, in which case, mega cringe.

>>14018233
also beer. thank you for your service, checkems

>>14017978
Soul yes, but its still shit.
https://youtu.be/-1GiqjueT7w

>>14017931
The nominally correct answer but Russia could work as well.

>>14018264
I can almost guarantee every genre you listen to has its roots in America, with the exception of classical and the various world musics. (Oh and by the way, Jazz is just as soulful and easily more complex and “intelligent” than classical, you’re just subconsciously racist and/or want to look smart so you listen to classical instead and call yourself enlightened).

>>14018156
>>14018453
>>14018593
Cringe and bluepilled posts

>>14019513
>Jazz is just as soulful and easily more complex and “intelligent” than classical,
lol

>>14019750
>Bro, let’s play diatonic triads lol
>Bro, so complex

>>14018600

Czeched

>>14019760
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrb0dHKJBR4
here's some complex music friend

>>14018264
who are you quoting?

>>14017295
The answer is a toss up between France and Russia, but France would be my choice since they have more great authors

Add the United States as the most athletic country.
If David Foster Wallace was still alive the country with the best literature currently would be the United States.
I would say the United kingdom has the best literature. They have Shakespeare as the best playwright. For best poetry Lord Byron and John Milton. Best female novelists George Eliot and Bronte sisters. The UK has the best epic poetry. The only thing is they can't produce a novelist worth a damn.

>>14020162
>Add the United States as the most athletic country.
literally who gives a shit about that lmao
>If David Foster Wallace was still alive the country with the best literature currently would be the United States.
delusional
>I would say the United kingdom has the best literature. They have Shakespeare as the best playwright. For best poetry Lord Byron and John Milton. Best female novelists George Eliot and Bronte sisters. The UK has the best epic poetry. The only thing is they can't produce a novelist worth a damn.
fair enough

>>14020162
>The UK has the best epic poetry

>>14019793
Listened to the first 15 minutes. Perhaps I was too snarky in my first reply, I don’t think classical is garbage or non complex. But to play Bach and then say that jazz is a degradation of classical or is less complex than classical is just retarded. Rhythmically they don’t even compare, you would have to be delusional to even suggest that classical is more complex than jazz in that regard. Jazz has much more complex chords with extensions and alterations and using chromatic notes while classical (at least from this era) is generally just diatonic, even the music you showed me. The only way you can argue that classical is more complex than jazz is that classical tends to have lots of voices going at once, while jazz can just be a soloist over accompaniment (if you ignore big band jazz). But even then, the soloist will be playing much spicier notes using more complex scales, while all the classical voices will all be diatonic for the most part. And, the soloist will be improvising the whole thing, and impressive feat classical snobs like to spin as “not putting time into the music.”

Lmao @ the state of /lit/

L M A O

So much posturing that people forgot that France beats every single nation in the world. Imagine calling yourself a 'country' and not being two millenias old. Imagine being proud of your ethnicity when your culinary tradition is a hundredth of superior french cuisine. That is something that baffles me to no end. How do people tolerate eating shitty 'food'. Why do people simply not copy our food? Incredible. The rest of the world has much to learn.

>>14017295
Massachusetts

>>14020247
I've been championing France since the beginning of the thread, you stupid nigger.

>>14020207
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWoVqZ_TdXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6nqfPWxWCg
mainly my point is that classical is too large of a genre to make such wide statements about it

these show some more interesting harmonies, especially scriabin, search up the mystic chord.

>>14020247
>two millenias old
Modern France was born in the 10th century. The Frankish Empire ≠ France

>superior french cuisine
No one likes eating salty snails and frog legs Pierre. Italian food>>>>>>Spanish food>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>French "food"

>>14020247
Indian food is 1000x better than your shitty frog food

>>14019513
>pop music

>>14020265
I think you misinterpret what I say. I don’t mean to imply that classical is lacking in complexity, but that jazz is at least as complex and deserves a place in a discussion about what countries have contributed most to music.

>>14020265
I really liked that first piece btw

>>14017295
Okay genius, explain how Ireland has the best art. I'm looking forward to this.

>>14020287
>pop music is the only genre of music that exists that isn’t classical

>>14020269
>>14020272
hahahahahahaha, spanish food, hahhahahahahahahhahaha lmao
First of all, if you had any knowledge of cuisine, you would know italian food is literally french techniques applied to italian ingredients. Now, spanish food has three dish distinct from french food, the end, not even going to argue about this.

>>14020272
It goes like this: 1. France 2. China 3. India

then ............ 33356. Italian 33356. Greek ........... one billion: rest of the world. Why? Because France, China and India are literally the ONLY countries in the world which have invented cooking techniques, the rest of the world piggybacks on them adding their own twist (perversion)

DO NOT BOTHER REPLYING YOU HAVE NO TASTE, YOU'VE BEEN TRAINED TO EAT SHIT FROM A YOUNG AGE YOU HAVE NO PALATE. YOU KNOW 3 FRENCH DISH WHEN THEY ARE LITERALLY MORE THAN +10 THOUSANDS. EVERY SINGLE WESTERN RESTAURANT IN THE WORLD USES FRENCH COOKING TECHNIQUES KEK. EVERY SINGLE ONE. EVERYTHING YOU EAT IS JUST A DIMINISHED FORM OF FRENCH CUISINE. Except if you're chinese or indian.

>>14020303
Based geographically illiterate burger poster

>>14020307
>you would know italian food is literally french techniques applied to italian ingredients
Other way around Francois.

>>14020307
At least you recognize Indian food as superb, the exact ranking doesn’t really matter to me desu

>>14020307
Lads if you ever see irl a Frenchman spasming like this just whisper "waterloo'' three times and he will vanish in a puff of smoke

>>14020207
Wtf are you even talking about? If you want to hear music more rhythmically complex than any jazz piece ever, just listen to Le Sacre du printemps. If you think all classical music is diatonic scales, I don’t even know what to tell you. Listen to almost any post-romantic composer and, again, you’ll find more complex harmony than in anything jazz.

>>14020247
This but unironically. I wish I was a French BVLL.

>>14020306
All music that isn’t art music is pop music. Most jazz can be considered art music, as can be a tiny fraction of rock and an even smaller fraction of electronic music.

>>14020319
kek

>>14020322
>Le Sacre du printemps

Beautiful music, but it’s not really that rhythmically complex, especially compared to jazz. The fact that you think it is is telling about how much you actually know what you’re talking about. And I was specifically talking about that era of classical when I mentioned diatonic harmony. But regardless, it doesn’t really matter. Classical is great and complex, but so is jazz, and dismissing it from a conversation about contributions to music shows blatant racism and/or classism, or perhaps just general snobbery and elitism (I don’t want to just assume everyone is racist).

>>14020333
Ah, you’re using the term pop music as in pop/art/folk. I see, I thought you meant the genre. But even then, as you mentioned lots of great art music is form the US, and folk too (blues and Americana)

>>14020307
cringe but redpilled

>>14020383
I mentioned it because it’s one of the most famous musical pieces and one that even a person who has never studied music would know. And I’m a fan of jazz too. I just don’t think it can, even at its best, be as great as the highest forms of classical music.

I enjoy cinema too, though, I think the novel is ultimately the better medium of art. I can’t comment on visual arts because my understanding of them is embarassingly bad.

>>14020442
I guess we’ve reached an impasse. At this point, I think it’s just down to personal taste. I would argue that jazz is just as if not more complex as classical, with lots of spicy notes and rhythms, but you seem to already recognize that. If you believe that the ways that classical are complex are more important than the ways jazz is more complex, then that’s really just personal taste and I don’t think there’s much for either of us to say

>>14020442
Although I disagree with you about novels and cinema. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, I don’t think it’s fair to claim one is better than the other (although I personally prefer novels more just because of the way my brain works)

>>14017719
Absolutely based

>best music
>Germany

Excuse me but that would be the US. I mean come on in which century do you live? Sorry but most modern Music is just plain better that boring classical shit.

So any of you actually listen to classical music?

>>14017355
Kek came to post this.

>>14017403
But that's only because of various Renaissance figures

>>14020862
>So any of you actually listen to classical music?
Yes.

Lot's of us do actually.

>>14020862
ye

>>14018236
le French love Faulkner
>>14018251
>English-language board


I think lit should either be English as a language or France if it needs to be a country. France has no Shakespeare or Dante but the have a more consistent quality, I can think of half a dozen French writers starting for every century since the 17th that I would enjoy reading, not really telling the truth if I say that about anywhere else. Germany (really German language) is runner up.

US would win cinema, their only real competition would be French film I think

>>14020953
Japan would win cinema

>>14020272
so you like eating overspiced veggies with your hands, truly the summum of gastronomy. Still better than amerimutts cuisine I guess

>>14017299
fpbp

>>14017954
Ça

>>14017295
There’s no such thing as best lit

>>14020926
Can you recommend me something? No Wanger tho

>>14020307
>Because France, China and India are literally the ONLY countries in the world which have invented cooking techniques
Mexico invented nixtamalization, so add that to the list. .

>>14020862
England is better then.

>>14021095
What I'm listening to atm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdLuvGsjwlA

>>14019513
>I can almost guarantee every genre you listen to has its roots in America,
>metal
UK
>pop
UK
>Blues
Came from folk from the UK

>>14021199
>metal
Has it’s roots in rock and blues
>pop
I admittedly don’t listen to pop so I wouldn’t know
>blues
Oh you have got to be fucking kidding me

>>14018019
I read Dostoevsky firs when i was 16. So there I suppose

>>14021199
British "music" is literally just a bunch of wigger chavs trying to imitate traditional black american music.

>>14021135
Pure kitsch

>>14017355
What book did the Bible write

>>14021416
You don't even know what that means do you?

>>14017295
Music is art, so Germany also wins in the art category.

>>14021489
I meant the Bible was written by Jews. Kneel to our over lords you speck.

I can only think of 2 good German bands while America has hundreds

>>14020383
The rhythmic complexity of jazz has only been part of what makes it so easily consumable and is only a reminder that technical complexity and instrumental difficulty provide no real insight into the value of a piece of music.

>>14019513
"Soulfulness" as a quality of music that exists only in the campaigns of marketers and the people who have been duped by them.

>>14017931
>>14017954
>>14017968
cringe

>>14021586
Sorry, but we're talking about high art classical music here not a bunch of whiny suburbanites and drugged up boomers who like to shout into a microphone while strumming their geetar.

Also, quality over quantity. Your brains been fried by living in the burgerpunk dystopia.

>>14021835
>muh classical music
cringe

>>14021835
>>14021846
Protip: The Refused

>>14017295
Japan

>>14017295
Wrong:
>Best art
Greece
>Best music
France
>Best lit
France
>Best philosophy
Germany

>>14017295
You are like a little baby. Watch this:
>Best art
Ethiopia
>Best music
Georgia (Caucasus)
>Best lit
Iran

>>14017295
Russia, literature peaked with Dostoevsky.

>>14022300
>the only book i've read is crime and punishment

>>14018724
>modern """""""music"""""""
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzBPWGDVfg0

Anyone who doesn't say America has the best music is just being a contrarian

>he listens to classical music

>>14022695
who is she? i wanna fuck her big ass mouth to classical music. coom in her to some shitty symphony. hate fuck her to bach while she chokes on my cock

>>14022695
I unironically know a girl I work with, mid-late 20s, who looks similar to the girl in the pic you posted (slim but has blonde hair instead) and listens exclusively to classical music.

>>14021717
>Bro pop and rock are so simple, easy, and stupid! It doesn’t matter how good it sounds, there’s no effort!
>Bro, Jazz is just wank, it’s too rhythmically complex to be good

Okay autist

>>14021736
>dirt poor niggers in 1950s America had expert marketing teams behind them to convince me that they’re soulful

Okay tinfoil hat autist

>>14023134
There’s plenty of highly complex rock and pop music, but its complexity doesn’t rid them of the qualities that make them so easily consumable and in turn so disposable.

>>14023165
>Rhythmic complexity is easily consumable
>Rhythmic complexity degraded true art

Just admit you hate niggers Jesus christ

>>14022695
>He listens to modern "music"

>>14023181
I never claimed that it was the complexity itself that made it good, bad, or consumable. In my first post I explicitly stated the opposite:
> technical complexity and instrumental difficulty provide no real insight into the value of a piece of music.
While it can be exceptionally complex, it is still mired in its consumer qualities that prevent it from being genuinely transcendent. It is not the complexity of the rhythm, but the social character of its syncopation that really defines it. I harbor no ill will towards African Americans (in recent months I’ve come to support a reparations package far more aggressive than any ever proposed), but it is not surprising to me that the descendants of individuals that were themselves commodities would be so adept at the creation of consumer culture.

>>14023224
What the fuck is your argument then? Jazz is not high art because... I say so? Do you even have an argument? Do you have an actual reason for your beliefs? Or are you just saying jazz isn’t high art because that’s what you’ve learned to believe?

>>14023245
Jazz is consciously made as a product for consumption rather than as an artistic expression. It’s goal is to be bought and then used to facilitate shallow social interaction. It has zero artistic qualities.

It’s closer to pornography and propaganda than it is art.

>>14023293
Ah, I see. You’re a retard, now everything makes sense. My apologies, I’ll leave you in your bubble now

>>14022695
Thanks to her, I consciously have to fight to avoid making that "white people smile at black people" face when I am in public.

>>14023311
>jazz is complex and soulful, and makes me feel good, therefore it is art in spite of it being characteristically non-artistic
You haven’t made a single meaningful assertion this whole thread. But keep telling yourself the John Coltrane’s hippy nonsense is so deep and meaningful.

I know we love to argue, but I don't feel like it's necessary here. Traditional Western art is the pinnacle--painting, music, sculpture, etc. Whether a piece comes from Germany, the US, Ancient Greece, Italy or any other Western country is meaningless because I feel connected to it as a part of this culture. The same goes for every other subject as well.

>>14023758
This will probably sound sound pretentious, but honestly this whole comparison game is retarded in general. No one ever learns anything or says anything of meaning, it always just devolves into “My artist is better!” “Nuh-uh! MY artist is better!” It’s better to discuss what makes different artists great and celebrate all beauty instead of feeling the need to turn everything into an autistic race with rankings on who’s best

Implying France would lose to Italy in any cultural related matter.
Pays de l'art.

>>14017295

Fixed it.

>>14017831
>China
>morality
this is a little too on the nose

>>14023334
>that "white people smile at black people" face when I am in public.
can I get a quick rundown

>>14017976
Based.

>>14021373
BASED

>>14023138
Well, yes. That’s how it was.
t. eri

>>14023334

>>14019513
Jazz comes from Europe, idiot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQMCfqFr4XA
Multiple European composers had written in a jazz style before any blackied laid his oversized lips on a saxophone.
Its just that blacks connected jazz to a subculture to turn it into a genre.

>>14024195
Look up the history of it before posting

>>14017295
Best Art: Japan
Best Food: France
Best Music: Germany
Best Lit: UK
Best Fashion: Italy
Best Philosophy: Italy
Best Political Theory: UK

>>14024072
Dumb Twitter meme from niggers. They're mad White people try to be polite to them without doing a whole song and dance to kiss their feet.

>>14024207
Post something substantive or don't post anything at all nigger.

>>14024211
Get the fuck out loli shitter.
>best art
italy
>best food
turkey
>best music
america
>best lit
jews
>best fashion
south korea
>best philosophy
germany
>Best Political Theory
jews

>>14024217
Literally the first line
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz

>>14024216
Oh, I see. #justamericanthings eh

>>14017295
English

an amalgamated russian/british flag.

>>14024242
Literally kill yourself holy shit you have the worst taste imaginable. Your kind fucking disgusts me.

>>14024251
>>14024207

lmfao
>Jazz is a music genre that originated in the African-American communities of New Orleans, United States.
Yeah, thats literally what I said. Fucking retard, contemplate what the word genre means before you post in this thread again.

also
>wiki says it so it must be true

>>14024251
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz
Wow you're right, why do any research when you can read one line from Wikipedia and instantly draw your conclusions from that? By the way the original poster was refuting that you brainlet. Wikipedia's so politically biased you can't trust what it has to say on these matters anyways, not to mention that a matter such as the origin of an entire genre of music is always going to be contentious enough that you can't simply point to one line of text in a 3rd hand source and state that that's conclusive. Fuck off pseudoshitter brainlet.

>>14017516
If he converted he is no longer a Jew. But I doubt even that.

>>14021064
True. Between the 3, it is the least clear who has the best lit.

>>14024284
I don't care for the opinions of subhuman pedophiles, sorry.

The only possible options are Russia or the UK

>>14024211
>Best Political Theory: UK

>>14024254
We also do that smile in the UK a lot, and while I'm aware retarded zooomers meme about it, I think they're retards whose opinion shouldn't be considered

>>14024195
Jazz obviously has its roots in traditional African music and spoken tradition. 20th century European composers only started incorporating "jazz" into their compositions because they noticed it was becoming popular through slave communities in the Americas. They failed miserably, because just like you, they missed the point of jazz completely. Its main characteristic is its unfinished or improvised nature, it's more of a feeling or method of playing than it is a compositional style. So lmao at your retrosplaining jazz onto a Beethoven composition just because it has syncopated rhythms, idiot.

>>14024355
>that smile
So I don't get it, you have some grimace resembling a smile that's specifically reserved for blacks? How did this come about? What's the intent behind it?

>>14017337
Trump is your president.

>>14017337
shouldn't all that negative gold be tearing a hole in spacetime

Netherlands has clearly the best art, Italy has a bunch of faggy sculptures and then de Chirico.

>>14024363
It's just meant to be a facial gesture we do when we make brief eye contact with strangers to show acceptance/positivity. It's not for blacks; it's just that only white people do it, so other races make fun of it.

Obviously in these images and memes the gesture is exaggerated

>>14024381
Ah, #justanglothings then. I think I understand.

>>14024346
Who conquered the entire world and founded the greatest superpower the world has ever known while seeding many other extremely successful colonies that have become many of the worlds most successful nations themselves? It's hard to argue with success.

>>14024387
None of which has to do with political theory, brainlet.

>>14024387
>best political theory is colonialism

>>14017295
russia how is this even a question

>>14024399
If ten groups of people all build bridges, and one group's bridges are consistently of much higher quality than the others, who would you assume has the best engineering theory?

>>14024402
>one century of literature

>>14024401
Yes the winners of history are gauged to be the best.

>>14024405
>who would you assume has the best engineering theory
The people that objectively have the best engineering theory, retard. Because the quality of the bridges might have more to do with the land structure and materials available than who has a better grasp on theory.

>>14024405
>doesn't understand the difference between theory and practice
>thinks "consistently" means a bit over a century of domination after collapsing to a meme
>doesn't realise geography is the most important aspect that made the UK stronger rather than ""political theory""
Can you do everyone a favor and off yourself?

>>14024411
>winners of history
Have you looked at the UK recently, brainlet?

>>14024387
Everything in your post is wrong tho.

>>14022695
>>14022654
>>14021846
>>14021586
>>14021416
>>14020862
Insecure samefag
>>14023758
Lmao you're a fucking idiot. I hate these contemporary image board dilettantes talking about "western" "the west" as if it's a monolith cultural group when their level of knowledge on the subjects in question are embarrassing. You haven't read a history book since your 11th grade textbook, stfu. Everything on the surface of the water looks the same if your haven't actually dived in. Of course a retard would generalize European cultures, you literally don't have the basic knowledge needed to independently differentiate away from the dominate media representation of the continent

>>14017794
>We have different taste
We don't speak about taste.

>>14024428
They were successful until they willingly disbanded their own empire and embraced French style giga-cuckoldry. Nevertheless they were successful. Have you seen Rome recently? No? I guess they wouldn't be considered to be successful either according to your metric?

>>14023758
>Traditional Western art is the pinnacle--painting, music, sculpture, etc.
That definitely used to be true, and there's good argument to be made that it still is, but it won't necessarily be true for much longer. The West hasn't put out anything of real artistic value in quite a while and if that keeps up we will eventually be passed by others. We have to shake off the Jewish style obsession of the disgusting and the profane eventually, this shit is getting embarrassing.

>>14024387
>Who conquered the entire world and founded the greatest superpower the world has ever known

>>14024463
Once again, the proverbial French arrogance is confirmed.

germany does not come even CLOSE to best music. get the fuck out of here

>>14024495
Colonies rebelling and claiming independance is not wilful disbandement. Brits were hit hard by both world wars like every oter Europeans.

>Have you seen Rome recently? No? I guess they wouldn't be considered to be successful either according to your metric?
Romans are clearly bot the winners of history, they depend on the whims of germanic and celtic nations for thzir historic continuity. But at any rate the Romans ever became a satellite state for onz of their former colonies.

>>14024533
Speaking about taste is an absolutely poor thing to Brag about.

>>14017968
>Learns italian for its literature.
>Reads Dante`s Inferno for the millionth time
>???
>Profit

>>14024195
Yeah, I highly doubt someone who refers to black jazz saxophonists as “blackies laying their oversized lips on a saxophone” is arguing in good faith. Go back to /pol/ autist

>>14024211
>Best Philosophy: Italy
Bro, what the fuck?

>>14023884
The French lose at everything
>Italy has better food and art
>USA, Russia, and Japan have better cinema
>Germany has better music and philosophy
>Greece, UK, and Russia have better literature
>UK has a better political philosophy and empire
The French are the losers of history

>>14017563
Vague statements with no support. Music existed before literature/philosophy. What does music being qualified by the same terms as art was in the renaissance have to do with music not being art? Even if I took your bullshit claim of art having to “represent the metaphysical being” to be true, who are you to say sound cannot represent the logos? If anything it represents it the best with its ever changing freedom

>>14025308
>bad faith
Go back to twitter if you want to invoke their meaningless buzz phrases. It’s easy to see why the concept would appeal to a jazz fan. Both amount to the appearance of an authenticity that doesn’t really exist.

>>14024449
You have shit taste my friend simple as that

>muh classical
Are 60 or what ?

I mean did you ever dance in your entire life? Probably not because then you would see that rythm based music is just simple more "human" and intellectually challenging than your slow and meaningless orchestra samefaggotry.

>>14026824
>the ability to facilitate sexual Ives Dan icing is what makes music deep and good.

>>14020162
JG Ballard is pretty great though

>>14020383
HHHHoly fuck bro been a professional jazz pianist for 7 years and also studied composition and conducting on a conservatory

You really are 100% talking out of your ass, you sound like a fetishist, who tf told you fucking jazz of all things is more complicated than stravinsky? hoooolly fuck the scare not being that rhythmically complex hoollllyyy fuck, you really dont know shit bro

>>14020501
>>14020442
omfg the jazz enthusiast and the guy who thinks jazz is spciy meet hollly fuck

guys please talk about books because neither of you know shit
jazz theory is a whole different bird than anything european, jazz as plastic as it may be in terms of harmony and rhythm is barely known to explore things like polyscalarity , polymodality and polymetricity all of which are the simplest of stravinsky devices holy fuck guys just shut the fuck up lmao "im a jazz enthusiast and i think jazz is spicy and better than classical " hahaha holy fuck

how could you even propose that jazz harmony is comparable to anything bartok or ligeti every did my god fuxcking christy you really fucked me upyou pieces of shit
as a jazz professional i beg of you, please stay the fuck out of jazz clubs, we hate people like you with a passion

>>14019513
Holy fuck , its amazing as a pro musician to see what people think music is

have you piece of retarded burger shit stopped to consider harmony was invented on europe , so was form, literally fucking song form?

>>14028536
>Holy fuck , its amazing as a pro musician
bro, u released four demo songs on soundcloud STFU retard

>>14028548
I studied from age 10 in a conservatory, fuck you fake intellectuals

As a composer i always try to make friends with writers to avoid orchestra-monkeys and you people never fail to disappoint, you wish you were cool and outgoing like us but you're just a bunch of weird artists who couldn't be physical or embodied to save their fucking lives

>>14028581
*autists

you're weird autists who are school shooter tier, you do nothing in a social group like musicians do, all you people do is sit alone in a room and then pretend that you are interesting for it

>>14017785
>forefront of romantic music
That goes to Tchaikovsky

>>14028763
are you guys just going to keep spouting memes?
you do realize thats what youre doing right?

to me this sounds like a couple of aunts discusing weather kenny west or em&ems is the best poet.

>>14026824
>>14027261
Baroque used to be dance music you know. You're both stupid. People used to dance on Bach music. And baroque musicians were fond of improvisation.

>>14028763
Tchaikovsky was still in diapers when Romantic music was at its height

>>14017563
Probably one of the pseudiest statements one this board right now. Music is several times older than literature and was at the forefront of the spread and reinforcement of the religious sentiment for millenia.
The separation between art and craft is also a modern conception and a very dubious one. The word for art directly comes from the latin for craft, and all arts are, at the root, crafts.
In fact if there is a historical division between craft and art it's the traditional distinction between the liberal arts and the rest. And music has always been considered among the liberal arts, while painting only became one in the Renaissance. Painters before Da Vinci weren't considered much higher than interior designers are now.
So you even got that part backwards.
Your take on image and writing representing the logos is borderline heretic by monotheistic religious standards and retarded by Platonic standards.

>>14017339
not true

>>14024294
I trust wikipedia more than some racist /pol/tards

>>14030270
I am a musicologist and could go on for hours about where the modern genres come from

but you have to be a retard or an ignoramus if you think quartal inth chords originated in africa where they only knew pentatonic scales if lucky

also i'm a pro jazz pianist so you can go fuck yourself with your "fan" opinions

>>14017976
Hot take, but you have a point.

>>14017295
Russia

>>14024211
>Best Art: Japan
AHAHAHHAAH
>Best Food: France
Italian food > french baguettes
>Best Music: Germany
agree
>Best Lit: UK
lol no
>Best Fashion: Italy
ok
>Best Philosophy: Italy
wtf bro?
>Best Political Theory: UK
WTF?

>>14020307
French people started being good at cooking only after kings invited Italian cooks to join their courts, and no, I'm not Italian but French and learnt this during an university course on history. >>14020315 is right.
Besides, I believe it's not useful to consider cuisines in terms of countries. All the countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea have great cuisines (Lebanon, Italy, Spain, Maghreb, Greece, ...), while the rest of Europe and Africa have pretty unremarkable foods, with the exception of Austria maybe. Same situation in Northern America, most of the stuff there is pretty gross but Mexico and southern US states like Texas and Louisiana have great food. It's also the same in Asia because between India and China, there is Thailand who has good cuisine and Myanmar too admittedly. It's probably more related to the climate in these geographical areas than anything else.

>>14017355

>>14023354
.>>14023293
>>14026547
>t.musically illiterate.

>>14017968

Objectively true