/lit/ - Literature

>>13970270
even if he did compromise his principals (which he didnt), i think it says a lot about how much he loves his wife.

>>13970270
mental health bro
what a dork
if there is one place that should not make fun of mental illness, it is this place

>When are people going to stop spouting this idiotic "just be a successful member of society!" meme? Society clearly offers people nothing but misery, it holds no answers. Our existence in civilisation is an aberration. Laugh all you like, you know I'm right.

>>13970278
>even if he did compromise his principals
If you need drugs to get through the day, clearly your principles don't hold much weight to yourself let alone anyone else. Yes, yes, yes I FUCKING KNOW he said take drugs if you need them.

I don't respect anyone who takes drugs to get through the day and I don't give a fuck about what they say concerning how to live life.

>>13970270
He got depressed after his wife got cancer because her loved her so much, which is actually super sweet

>>13970282
Drugs don't cure or help mental illness, they just throw a blanket over it.

>>13970289
What's sweeter is that he abuses opiates while talking about being a man

>>13970270
So this man is the swan song for the West?
>inhales
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>13970270
Peterson says mental medication is good. Peterson is now in rehab. He lost control. Some say nuts. What's the lesson?

>>13970392
12 rules for life more like 1 rule abuse opiates till you go into rehab

>>13970278
>which he didn’t
Yes he did

>>13970278
not only did he compromise his principles he compromised his health via abusing opiates while eating lobster with the cash omega retards gave him

>>13970289
No. He has been taking antidepressants since his youth.

>>13970475
can you provide a link? i knew he was a fucked up charlatan but not this much.

>>13970513
I read this too, it was referenced in a hit piece, there was a one off line in an interview from before he blew up and became really famous. They were asking him about happiness and growing into adulthood and things of this nature, and he mentions that he had been on antidepressants during that period of his life.

>>13970513
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x35Rbe81vkU

>>13970604
how were people able to take this hack seriously?

>Mikhaila Peterson
>CEO of The Lion Diet, Inc.
>Heal yourself with diet. Take back your life.
>The #LionDiet : Beef, s𝐚lt, w𝐚ter
Now that he's in rehab someone's gotta take over the snake oil business.

>>13970291
Do you also feel that way about painkillers?

>it's sweet and endearing when a rich guy uses drugs to cope with crippling depression
>it's a moral failure and deserving of genocide when a poor guy uses drugs

what the fuck, /pol/???

>>13970720
Not him, but, to be fair, ibuprofen doesn't correct a broken leg

>>13970288
Shut up retard, he's mentally ill

>Hurr durr someone with Schizophrenia or Bipolar disorder should just chill out bro! Meds are for losers!

>>13970763
mental illnesses don't exist

>>13970763
ok if you're mentally ill don't go give advice to even bigger retards about how to live life you fucking retarded piece of fucking shit

Why is leftypol so obsessed with this guy? No one else cares.

>>13970760
No, but ibuprofen (or naproxen, or maybe yes even oxycontin) is part of the treatment for a broken leg. But obviously I was talking about everyday pain.

>>13970768
Don't skip class
>>13970771
There's a lot of flaws in your argument. For one, he never states that his way is the truth and that everyone should follow it. Two, just because he has severe depression, that means he should stay home all day (that would make his illness worse.) I don't like a lot of what he says but he became a role model for millions who say that he made their lives better and became successful in the process. If helping millions and being financially free is a bad thing, you should reexamine your own life since a mentally ill old man is doing so much better than you

>>13970797
lmao you admit he is mentally ill and still defend the fact he is giving advice to the even more mentally ill. bro you've already admitted this motherfucker is a retard helping mega-retards to get to a retard opiate-taking level stop

>attacking hypocrisy
The argumentive tactic of weak, low iq insects
If you cannot prove somebody's philosophy wrong without targeting their character or habits just fucking kill yourself
Might as well denounce 99% of all philosophers, artists, and intellectuals that have ever existed
If you think any human being on earth isn't a walking meat sack full of contradictions just kill yourself

>>13970740
Because one is because a generation is dependent on them the other is because they hate getting up at 9am to go to work

>>13970270
Just live for your own happiness anon, I love my family and growing my flowers and I don't particularly care about anything else.
I stopped reading the news long ago.

>>13970814
If millions have said their lives have improved because of his story, then I find nothing to dissent. You should seek help too , you're too angry to hold a decent conversation.

>>13970797
>he became a role model for millions

>>13970820
>if i want to lose weight i should listen to the obese guy
nice logic you retarded piece of dogshit

>>13970843
>millions
evidence?
you're clearly even more mentally ill than the mentally ill guy who takes opiates and antidepressants to cope with his broken brain and here you are acting like you can say anything that is worth listening to go OD on some opiates my retard

>>13970270
Prove your words by your deeds.

>>13970845
Compelling response
Seething

>>13970868
kill yourself my dude

>>13970820
I think there's more to the "can the philosopher refute the philosophy" argument than this. If a philosopher lives in blatant contradiction to their own philosophy, then it can sound an awful lot like they're just mouthing off. It can even leave one wondering if the philosophy can be implemented in the real world, or if it has anything to do with the real world.

If you have such great ideas, why aren't you perfect? Gotcha asshole.

I will continue to produce no meaningful output and not because I am incapable, but because I am a man and thus imperfect. I am not a hypocrite. If anything, I am morally superior to scoundrels like Peterson.

>>13970879
When u lose an internet argument and resort to gay, childlike responses

>>13970922
not that guy but there's spit all over your mouth rn

>>13970936
I'm literally laughing. But moreso I'm sad for him and people like you. Godless heathens with zero virtue

>>13970945
>i'm literally laughing
bro wipe the spit all over your mouth

>>13970951
Keep responding, puppet

>>13970960
nice pic but where the FUCK is jordan peterson you brainless fuckdoll

>>13970846
You're a retard, that obese man could just say the way to lose weight based on his own observations and it would be correct nomatter his own state. Goldberg can explain to you how to properly round up and exterminate Jews, Hitler can explain the logic behind the golden rule and nobody would be considered incorrect if you aren't a low iq insect
Hypocrisy is the domain of people with nothing to say. Have your mom dictate plato to you and then prove it wrong by claiming that she isn't a greek citizen in Athens and does not practice what she says
This is why you will always be an insect

>>13970270
Society does offer more than misery, just not to many people. Not many people are capable today of taking the things society offers- usually because they're not willing to pay the cost. I can understand that. You labor and slave for a chance that might not even come.
I dont think civilization is an aberration, it was always gonna be like this. I think most humans are, but considering we're here we have to deal with it somehow. Thats what philosophy is for.
How is Peterson still relevant to people except as shallow self help?
>>13970604
Lol. Biobots programming biobots now. Its nearly here...
>>13970740
Its called crypto racism tard.
>>13970763
If hes insane he should shut the fuck up and get his house in order. The hypocrisy IS outstanding considering we now know hes been on anti d s this whole time. His house hasn't been in order at all. An ordered house doesn't foster addicts or welcome drug users imo.
>>13970797
If someone has depression and needs foreign substances to get through the day, they shouldn't project an air of authority and masquerade as healthy and component. Its hypocrisy plain and simple.
>>13970843
Nothing to celebrate in uploading the typical biobot program.
>>13970820
Philosophers who've embodied their philosophy: Buddha, Socrates, Epicurus, Diogenes, Jesus(?), Muhammad, Kant. I'm fucking sure there is more.
If you think that the point of life isn't to master the beast within with our higher faculties you might as well be already dead kiddo. Fuck off now, okay sweetie? Back to pol or plebbit or whatever foul recess you crawled out of.

What an unsavory thread. I blame the Peterplebs.

>>13971015
you're actually arguing for the hypothetical obese guy telling you how to lose weight AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA kys you brainless punchbag retard piece of fucking dogshit

>>13971074
I hope you're baiting otherwise I feel bad for your mother

>>13971109
are you sure because i facefucked your mother while your father watched with an oldschool handheld video cam

>>13970969
He's deep in there man.
He's in there. Get your head out of your arse and talk to smart folk and you'll see the c l o w n you idolize

>>13971137
>being this broken you don't even know who you are arguing for
sounds like a peterson fan

>>13971074
"Eat less calories than you burn, eat healthy fruits and veggies, avoid heavy sugars, and get good cardio in your day anon the procedure itself is simple"
>YOU'RE WRONG!!!!! REEEEE
>>13971121
Cringe

>>13971146
what? whose side are you on?

>>13971185
If that man gave you that advice would it be incorrect because his own body isn't an example of it? No? Than pointing out hypocrisy is not a proper substitute for an argument, and only used by low IQ insects who have nothing substantial to say. If Stalin spent years studying and gave you well sourced advice on how to properly set up a capitalistic economy would he be incorrect? Nobody is saying to completely ignore hypocrisy and to seek out those who do the opposite of what they say, only that pointing out these hypocrisies proves absolutely nothing, especially in the academic realm. Hypocrisies should only be used as character insults and attacks, not as a substitute for a debate or discussion of ideas

>>13971239
lose weight LMAO

>>13970270
And people take this drugged up loser as some example of individual

Any regular man is ten times the man than this mental midget

And then he has the audacity to say that people aren't good individuals enough

He is fucking nothing

>>13971552
Look I don't like Peterson either but this level of exaggeration is fucking pathetic and cringy. this dude makes pseuds seeth so hard it's hilarious. You're not an enlightened individual because you saw through his arguments and I can guarantee you won't accomplish 1/100 of what he has so drop the insecure arrogance and focus on yourself

>>13971733
what? he abuses opiates and you probably should given your level of wack

>>13971733
I am a fully resolved man, you fuckwit.

If you need a dopehead pundit to tell you to wash your penis maybe you really need to focus on yourself.

>>13971041
Marcus Aurelius, Camus, Nietzsche,

>>13970793
It's not part of treatment, it doesn't help fix the leg, it helps the person with the broken leg feel better.

I'm not going to read a single comment or check on my replies. JBP wants boys to be men because of suppressed feminine nurturing personality characteristics. He calls Beauty and the Beast a perfect movie because he identifies with Belle and wishes he could quietly sooth the Beast's pain by washing his penis. He's not gay, but he runs from himself to the point that cleaning his office was the only way to find his old notes. Guy is a very unaware human.

>>13970763
>schizophrenia or bipolar disorder
not even remotely similar in character to any flavor-of-the-month mental "problem" complained of among Western bourgeois ""adults""

>>13970289
Yet he talks so much about how you need to be strong and dependable in times of tragedy.

It's amazing how much this guy makes leftists seethe. Why do you care so much that he is more intelligent and successful than you are? Chill.

>>13972563
almost got me

>>13972560
Hence the medication, genius.

>laughing at the disintegration of your fellow man
Be careful

>>13972591
fellow "man" is what got us here in the first place

It's saddening how a perceived ideological clash has allowed many here to relish the misfortunes of Peterson, who particualr on this board has only ever been viewed through polemics and vitriol.

There seems to be joy in the fact that he has somehow compromised his principles and is hypocritical, when he is someone who has always talked from experience and has never claimed to be above it all. By all accounts he's doing what he preaches and owning up to his problems and seeking help when needed.

Dostoyevsky was a gambling addict, who had a strained relationship with family, his first wife, publishers and was on the account of some, vain and difficult to work with. Yet his work drawn from his experience paired with his insight allowed for books that are still pertinent and subject to critique and study to this day. Just because he was personally closer to Dmitry or Ivan than Alyosha doesn't mean he didn't give us all the brothers.

>>13972638
No matter how you word it, you don't get to be on antidepressants and painkillers and then preach to other people about life.

If you need drugs to get through the day, you're clearly doing something very, very wrong.

>>13972645
>If you need medication for your sickness you're clearly doing something very, very wrong.

t.4chan intellectual.

>>13972645

If you'd have ever listened to him or read any of his work, you would know that he is an advocate of taking depressants. There's a part in 12 rules of life, called take the damn pills.

>no matter how you word it

that just sums you up, you have your conclusions before you have even heard the salient information.
Don't make the mistake of assuming that I am endorsing using medication. Even Peterson talks about it not being long term and must be the start of actually fixing problems. I'm assuming that is why he is in rehab because he's having difficulty coming off them.

None of this is contrary to what he has ever said and that was the issue that has caused many people here to be sickeningly gleeful.

>>13972660
anti-depressants* obviously

>>13970632
Hey, if salt is good enough for goats & sheep it should be good enough for me!

>>13971733
Being propped-up is not accomplishment!

>>13972638
dude did you just compare dostoyevsky to peterson? no ones reading 12 rules to life in 200 years

>>13970270
I always hated peterson but this continuous barrage of threads written by leftists gloating over his disgraces almost convinced me to buy his books.
Anyone you subhumans want to see suffer so much must be based and redpilled, experience teaches.

>>13972660
He was abusing benzos dude. That's not like tapering off SSRIs, benzo addiction is the only one as serious as alcoholism.

>>13972658
Mental diseases are a product of civlisation and the strains it puts on the mind. Drugs will never fix this, all drugs do is mask the symptoms. Depression isn't a broken leg, there's no easy fix or even a fix at all as long as you reside in civilisation.

>>13972660
>If you'd have ever listened to him or read any of his work, you would know that he is an advocate of taking depressants.
I know he is AND IT DOESN'T FUCKING CHANGE ANYTHING. You don't get to be a fucking junkie and lecture others about life. It doesn't work that way. Would you listen to advice on how to live a good life from a man who drinks 2 litres of vodka a day?
>that just sums you up, you have your conclusions before you have even heard the salient information.
You don't get to play word games to make your opinion into fact. Peterson is a junkie retard who runs his mouth about life and how to live it well, there's no defence of that.
>must be the start of actually fixing problems
Completely delusional and childish approach. If you're sat in a pot of boiling water, drugs and positive thinking won't stop you from being boiled alive. The problem is not your mind, it's your environment. Civilisation is actively damaging you the whole time you're in it.
>None of this is contrary to what he has ever said
Yes it is. You can't run around telling young men to man up and be dependable when YOU YOURSELF are neither and are high off your ass just to get through the day.

>>13970740
/pol/ hates Peterson

>>13972684
>Civilisation is actively damaging you the whole time you're in it.
Only true for higher men. Bugmen thrive in their anthills.

>>13972674

No, I was making a literary comparison, considering this is /lit/ and I wanted to make it more relatable to people on this board (who have only ever seen peterson through memes).

>>13972684
>Would you listen to advice on how to live a good life from a man who drinks 2 litres of vodka a day?
Yes? I wouldn't think they are a saint, nor is it a requirement. It's the message that matters.

>>13972693
People have seen Peterson talk on youtube in lectures and interviews, we know who he is and what he's about. Be honest, you're 16 and his clean your room shit blew your mind right?

>>13972696
>Yes?
Then you're a moron.
>It's the message that matters
And if you don't practice what you preach, then you'll have an uphill battle convincing anyone you're not talking out your arse.

>>13972684

It's clear that he has contradicted your personal philosophy (that I don't necessarily disagree with) but he hasn't been inconsistent with his own words. That's your interpretation of what he has said.

>You can't run around telling young men to man up and be dependable when YOU YOURSELF are neither
But part of this "manning up" is accepting you might need meds to get you into a state of balance to start fixing your problems through action. Your personal defnition of these things are not Peterson's.

Do you not understand the distinction? You're putting in your principles, when I have been talking about if Peterson has compromised his.
According to you, yes he has, but through his own words and work, he hasn't.

>>13972697

I am 26 years old and to be honest, very little of what he has said has been relevant to my own life, but having seen his channel 4 interview I decided to read his book and I'm pointing out /lit/'s era in assuming he has shown himself to be a charlatan by needing rehab, when he would be the first to suggest to go to rehab when necessary.

I don't care if you don't agree with him, I don't 100% either, espeicially not about medication ironically, but you can't just distort what you want and laugh about it.

>>13972708

lit's error*

>>13972708
>I'm pointing out /lit/'s era in assuming he has shown himself to be a charlatan by needing rehab, when he would be the first to suggest to go to rehab when necessary.
He doesn't get to decide what makes him a charlatan, we do.

>>13972699
Nah, it's only a problem when dealing with brainlets.

>>13972703
>but he hasn't been inconsistent with his own words
He has.

So what if he's never been anti-pills. Saying "be a man bro" and then doping yourself up to your eyeballs is a contradiction.

>>13972703
>you might need meds to get you into a state of balance
That isn't what meds do and it should be clear from the fact that this 40 something hack is STILL taking them.

>>13972711

And you're deciding that with an assumption that Peterson claimed to be above addiction or mental illness and that small quotes attributed to him without their context like "man up" etc, are a call to stoic action that he has contradicted.

Which isn't true in the slightest. This thread is annoying as fuck because if I'm honest, I don't even like Peterson's work or his advice but I'm sick of idelogical shitweasels who want bring people down without even reading his work.

>>13972714
>>13972717

Why am I wasting my time on people that just say the equivalent of "nuh uh"?

Anyone can read my earlier posts and figure out my point, if they're not retarded. I'm out.

>>13972712
You can sit around all day saying beautiful things but if you never act on them then it's worthless garbage.

>>13972728
>Why am I wasting my time on people that just say the equivalent of "nuh uh"?
Because what you're saying is the equivalent of "M-MARX NEVER SAID THAT!".

>>13970270
are his children now rebelling against their daddy?

>>13970270
To quote Thomas Sowell, as he is often by Thinking Ape/Stardusk on the topic of modernity and masculinity, "There are no solutions, only trade-offs."

We are biologically, and psychologically maladapted to modernity. You can't change much about your genetics, but if you troubleshoot your life, you can radically change your micro-environment, in order to better interact with your physiology.

Too many urban women are sluts and feminists? Move to the locations where they aren't.

Your family is dysfunctional and abusive? Move, and begin going to therapy first, with drugs as a last resort.

All your friends are fat and won't exercise? Switch friend groups to ones that encourage the activities you value.

You have no spending power and are taxed to hell? Move, minimalize, and eventually switch jobs.

Your community is addicted to opiates? Move the fuck away.

You cannot change how your genes interact with a system, but to a good degree you can choose your environmental system.

You will not solve everything. There is no magic bullet solution. Plus. new problems may emerge from this new environment that you choose. There are only trade-offs. So define your values in order of importance, and try to trade-off the less valued ones for the greater valued ones.

Then, eventually, 15 years down the line, you wake up in a white ethnostate, next to your tomboy wignat wife, and suddenly life feels fine.

>>13972804
Have sex, incel

>>13970278
He did, and it goes to show how destructive his principles are. His philosophy boiled down to: ‘Devote yourself entirely to your own material wellbeing, while also becoming the best economic unit you can be.’


Jordan Peterson claims to be some sort of life coach. Yet following his advice has left him a depressed drug addict.

fuck. goes to show no one actually has it together. everyone's just bullshitting their way through this hell-world

>>13970270
wait a minute, are you telling me that Jordan Peterson may be a hack?

>>13970771
>>>13970763
>ok if you're mentally ill don't go give advice to even bigger retards about how to live life you fucking retarded piece of fucking shit
Tell that to the millions of people whose lives hes touched and saved. He literally breaks into tears when people ask him what the past 3 have been like for him because everywhere he goes he is constantly approached by strangers who thank him for having their lives completely transformed for the better as a consequence of listening to him.

>>13970270
>muh social hierarchy
>muh conservative values
fuck you JP

>>13972804
>Is there a problem with your friends and family? Abandon them.
>Is there a problem with your community? Move away.
>Your job isn't paying enough money? Get a new one.
>Do you feel sadl? Buy professional services and happy-pills.

Liberals...when will they realize it was this kind of shit that got us into this mess in the first place.

>>13973291
>His philosophy boiled down to: ‘Devote yourself entirely to your own material wellbeing, while also becoming the best economic unit you can be.’

I bet you thought real hard about this, and this is still the best you could come up with

>>13971771
If you were a resolved man you wouldn't be on lit seething about JP lol

>>13971741
SEETHING

>>13973291
That's not what his advice boils down to. To boil something down means to reduce it to its underlying principle structure, and what you've done is state one possible application of his principle. Jordan's advice boils down to "the meaning in your life is directly proportionate to the degree to which you adopt responsibility". If you want to stretch it further you could argue it boils down to "act in a manner which serves yourself, yourself accross time, your family and community as optimally as possible".

>Jordan Peterson claims to be some sort of life coach. Yet following his advice has left him a depressed drug addict.
See>>13974149

>>13970475
Then he proves they don’t work. You’re okay for a while, then get crazier, then crash out. If they worked he’d be fine, sensible, and balanced— wouldn’t cry on a dime, be nervous all the time, or make up crazy lies about all meat diets and apple juice.

>>13970720
False equivalency. Pain killers numb low-level nerve pain. Antidepressants fuck with extremely complex neurochemistry in a clumsy way.

>>13970632
What's with the 'a's in salt and water?

>>13971239
If.

>>13974261
>If you want to stretch it further you could argue it boils down to "act in a manner which serves yourself, yourself accross time, your family and community as optimally as possible".
You've stretched it into pseudo-truism. If anything it's more like "Act in a manner that improves yourself as an individual, for that is the optimal way of improving your enviroment". If you want him to substantiate what self-improvement is best, it will ultimately boil down to what the other anon said about economic unit.

I'm schizo and I suffer from depression sometimes.

My opinion from someone who takes both medications is that my schizo medication (paliperidone) makes me think more logically, slower, more coherent.

I'm a better person because I take my schizo medication.

Depression not so sure, yes, they clearly work and make me not depressed, but they wont fill my life or spirit or soul with meaning, so I think anti depressants are more a placebo unless you fix your life.

Taking both surely helps, and is a much better deal to suffer from mental illness and depression without them.

So, the people who says that using drugs has not reason, clearly has never had a mental illness or depression and are taking BS.

They wont give meaning to my life, but they clearly make it less miserable.

I still think modern life is an abomination, even while usefull I think I'll be happier living among amish with low technology than modern life.

>>13974356
There's nothing simple about taking any drug, and in fact you've done your own clumsy rhetoric by phrasing one case ("numbs pain") in a simplistic way and another ("fucks with complex chemistry") in a grandiose way. The real difference is that most pain killers are over-the-counter, which has profound effects on how they're seen by the general public--while the real equivalence between them is that both of them aren't about treating causes, but alleviating symptoms, which is what an awful lot of drugs are for.

So what's the true reason liberals/leftists hate this guy? I'm not just talking about generic disagreements, I see genuine loathing for someone who's essentially just a boomer dad telling people to clean their room.

Hate often stems from a narcissistic identity issue, and I wonder if it is that.

>>13970278
>which he didnt
>"I'm for free speech"
>deplatforms controversial person
>"I can't"
Your e-daddy is fake.

>>13974247
What an infantile non-argument

Society is trash and it is what I complain and try to change

>>13970945
>implying that Peterson is actually religious and didn't just ride a wave of opportune populism to sell repackaged ideals of better men as his own product

>>13974517
>Society is trash
Behold, an argument

>>13974526
It is.

Typical juden cultist doing damage control for society like he wants you to do.

>>13974553
Take your pills

>>13974468
It's the same shit like with Steve Pinker. They are liberals of the Fukuyamist kind that keep repeating the world "is not perfect, but the best there ever was" and act as gatekeepers to any kind of political transformation. While more and more people are alienated from muh society, they feel powerless and controlled.

Obviously once it comes out that Steve likes to touch little girls and JP pops pills, gatekeepers lose authority, gate is open and people regain hope in possibility of transforming their surroundings rather then merely being forced to cope and adapt.

>>13974567
I am not Jordan Peterson.

>>13974553
Not the guy you are replying to but I was thinking like you once and then it dawned upon me how full of shit I was. I hope you will too one day. You have no fucking idea how dark this world is or could be.

>>13974553
Society is trash and juden does not let people through the gate and let them see why fully. Judensteinianism had the potential but it was a still birth at roughly the time when he was asked about the holodomor. Then his book came out the the preface said it all.
I'm sorry to say, as this guy did have a positive impact upon my life, but he is a hack.

>>13970278
>his principals
Didn't know he owned any schools Tbh.

>>13970857
not him but you just dont have eyes to look for yourself and wouldnt acknowledge what is brought before you. his success is proof that people like his message, the testimonies are apparent. You sound like you have bigger problems in your head than depression caused after the terminal illness of your wife.

>>13972638
Said it better than I wouldve.

>>13974746
It seems that you don't realise one little thing: he has been propped up. It did not happen on its own. Just read the preface of his 12 rules book.
Not to say he's not done good for many people though, can't deny that but at what cost? And what good? Good as in wash your penis and be a productive member of basedciety at the cost of gatekeeping the normies from the real causes of their fucking misery, the real reasons why we call this place the valley of sorrows. This man is the living example of a hack, never able to give you a straight answer about his deepest beliefs.

>>13970270
Hes taking anti anxiety medication after his wife got diagnosed with a terminal illness, and is attempting to get off of them. What's the problem? Death of a loved one has nothing to do with 'society'. Why do you think the guy was supposed to be a monolith of morality without capacity for flaws? Very few writers, great or obscure, have been without moments of weakness. Many of them were of the mind that their weakness wasn't worth resolving either, and yet they were capable of profound thoughts. Alcoholism, opiate abuse are all very common among great writers. What makes Peterson so special for what is by comparison, nothing?

>>13974789
So what are the real reasons

>Writes novels about the dangers of gambling
>Gambles
LITERALLY UNREADABLE

Meanwhile Zizek is still taking THE substance.

>>13974789
>not to say he hasnt done good for many people though

>And what good?

perhaps the good he has done for many people. 'Gatekeeping the normies from the true cause of their misery' could be something, but I don't know what you mean other than you just disagree with his message in some way and believe it stops people from finding 'the truth'.

>>13974820
Evil is out there and evil men are rejoicing when people like Peterson are doing their bidding.
Real reasons are the moral corruption of Western society and psychological warfare waged against the church, our only bulwark against degeneracy and degradation. Peterson acknowledges the importance of taking a grip of one's life but completely rejects the idea of evil men doing evil things at the expense of the society and shruggs such ideas of as "muh suffering" and "just keep cleaning your room". What if the room is fucking clean already? Just sell myself to highest bidder so I could become a productive whore living in a squeaky clean room?
Tl;dr it's the Jews.

>>13970270
>Society clearly offers people nothing but misery
Quit idolizing a return to nature. Life is pain. Reality is misery. Only the dead know peace.

>>13974822
to be fair Dosto is literally trash

>>13973291
He is mere a reflection of our society today, not the originator of it.

>>13974837
Well, he's against the idea of ethnically composed, traditional societies and is not a Christian, that should send the alarm bells ringing.
First thing the rulers of the US in the North East states did after the WW2 did was cleanse the strong, ethnic, religious neighbourhoods in the cities and drove them into suburbs. Now with the consciousness rising due to the internet, along comes Peterson out of nowhere and starts claiming there's nothing wrong with the world, it's you!
It's quite obvious what this man has done.

>>13974822
that makes it even more honest, though.

>>13974149
homiletical sensationalist tone to convert NEETs into economic units, not 'saving lives'

>>13974261
>"the meaning in your life is directly proportionate to the degree to which you adopt responsibility"

too bad responsibility means nothing

>>13974852
I dont think he has ever denied the existence of that sort of corruption and I dont understand how he does "their bidding". If you actually wanted to do something about the problem (assuming you're even capable) you would be better off following his advice because unless you build yourself as an individual from the bottom up you're an absolute detriment to your cause.

>Just sell myself to highest bidder so I could become a productive whore living in a squeaky clean room?

Make the best of your opportunities and be grateful they even exist. If you cant make a better life for yourself than what you can be happy with then unfortunately nature didn't select you and that's okay.

https://youtu.be/MLp7vWB0TeY

>>13974908
>>13974903
So what's your alternative?

>>13974908
Cheeky cunt, but wrong.
Peterson tried to sacrifice a lamb without spilling blood.
Talk about meaning, responsibility, morals, freedom, atrocities, the old testament and become a self-help guru while not talking about the origins of Bolshevism, the holodomor, Solzhenitsyn's 200 hundred years together and his support for traditional, apostolic religion as a necessary factor for the rejuvenation against the damage caused by 70 years of communism in Russia.
How can a man talk Solzhenitsyn and not know the book he's written that got him excommunicated by the "international". community?
>>13974955
No, he denied it quite explicitly, especially the Jewish question and got completely btfod online.
Yes, I'm grateful, don't you worry about that and I'm grateful to the saints and angels who made it all possible for us to post on mongolian leather tanning forum.
That does not mean that I'm contempt with the things are going.

>>13974955
"Their bidding"
Imagine the rising masses of unemployed, directionless people who have access to all there is to in this world and then an internet daddy comes along and talks big words and sells them meaning.
Now wait until the lacquer wears off and see where it's going to get these people long term.
What juden did was he held back the breaking levy for another couple of years or so, that's all I'm saying.

>>13975024
All there is to know*

>>13974975
Find out about your oppressors and did what your fathers before you have done: lead a traditional, humble life of Catholicism/Orthodoxy, read the works of saints and the works of the people who revealed the truth about the warfare that has been waged against your church.

>>13974894
>Well, he's against the idea of ethnically composed, traditional societies and is not a Christian, that should send the alarm bells ringing.
That's pretty autistic, ngl.

>along comes Peterson out of nowhere and starts claiming there's nothing wrong with the world
He has never said there is nothing wrong with the world, only that you are the primary contributor to your own existential dissatisfaction, which is correct. That has nothing to do with pacifying the masses into accepting wagecuck stoicism. It means that unless you're actually capable of doing something useful to correct the "higher societal/circumstantial corruption" that's apparently ruining your life, it's your fault for being resentful about it and your fault you can't live happily or meaningfully in spite of it.

>>13974975
Not the poster of quoted but:
Find out the truth about your oppressors and what damage they have done to our churches in Europe and across the world.
Do what your fathers before you did: go to an apostolic church, go to a confessional, find a wife and have kids, ultimately.
That should give you plenty meaning and reasons to live.

>>13970288
Good thing your opinion on how people live their lives is utterly worthless.

>>13975058
>it's your fault for being resentful about it and your fault you can't live happily or meaningfully in spite of it.
This is where you are wrong my dude.
We are not characters of Dostoyevsky's notes from the underground.
We live in a world that was here before and will remain after us and bigger uncles than us made decisions somewhere down the line that made you better or worse off. No one is stupid enough to deny man's own responsibility but this is not what we are arguing about here.

>>13970270
Petersonfags BTFO

>>13975058
>it's your fault
Even fucking zizek understands there's more to the story and hence why Peterson got completely shat on during the debate.

>>13974995
How did he get btfo'd? Are you seriously trying to write off this man because he isnt willing to enter the JQ conversation? He never even said that there was no corruption among the overrepresentation of Jewish elites, only that IQ largely accounts for it, which it obviously does regardless of whatever you think is happening. Nothing Jordan has ever said would deter anybody from reading into the JQ, he just refused to go any further than what he was able to safely say about it, and that's completely respectable.

>>13975093
>Good thing your opinion on how people live their lives is utterly worthless.
At least I'm not a junkie like Peterson

>>13975123
>more to the story
What are you talking about?

>>13975162
Unless you're as productive as Peterson, at least in proportion to your own capabilities, you have absolutely nothing on him for being straight edge.

>>13975161
You are a smart cunt I'll give you that and you'll figure it out for yourself I'm sure but I'll give you a tip that comes from what other anons said: no man worth his salt would expound his philosophy while also failing to live it to it's fullest extent. People like Peterson perish like dust I'm afraid and if you've read Dante, you'd know what happens to the lukewarm.
One cannot simply talk Solzhenitsyn and Bolshevism and get away with it, especially a man of significant following.

>>13975175
>Muh productivity
Are you a man or a fucking goat?

>>13975166
You've not watched the debate?
It is not your fault ONLY. Relax, dude, there are actual people doing actual evil and society at large is suffering for the actions of a few.
Now be a good boy and wash your penis.

>>13975161
Say, what's more important, IQ or a culture in which labour, morality and reason is being nurtured?
The IQ question can only take you so far and one last thing, keep this yo yourself and don't tell anyone, but jews really like to lie. Don't know, could just be a stereotype!

>>13975209
Just because there are uncontrollable factors that contribute to suffering does not remove from the fact that you are the deciding factor of your own existential contentment. You could be born deaf, mute and blind with an untreatable disease causing you to feel absolute pain constantly, and the fact still remains. You can't control the hand you're dealt, only how you play the game. Of course, its understandable that the disease victim would most likely fail to attain that level of transcendence, the failure is still theirs.

>>13975297
It's clear you're an idiot. Please stop posting.

>>13975300
Excellent point.

>>13975206
Alright, how would you rather guage merit in this regard? If there is something explicitly wrong with his usage of antidepressants then surely you can identify the virtue he's missing?

Don't forget about his eating disorder

>>13975297
>Just because there are uncontrollable factors that contribute to suffering does not remove from the fact that you are the deciding factor of your own existential contentment.

my question is, what if in your quest to find existential commitment you find outside factors are continuously inhibiting your own happiness. you might for example decide that a good way to transcendence for yourself is to make paintings, but you find that making paintings is a very difficult thing to justify because it is not a very 'safe' job- whether or not you will get your payout is dependent on your connections, your impression of prestige, and the actual quality of your work. external factors inhibit your own ability to transcend in such a case.

this is the same general question as zizek posed to peterson in the debate. and it's a point that i think you will have to address. why can't we do both- focus on ourselves and society? why do petersonfags assume that people who complain about society are NOT working on themselves? https://youtu.be/gBMmcX-5INQ

>>13970288

Come back and tell us about the Top Three worst things you've suffered in your life. If one of them is related to a breakup with a non-wife or you respond with any brand of antagonism, you're a faggot.

>>13975320
>If there is something explicitly wrong with his usage of antidepressants then surely you can identify the virtue he's m
If he feels he needs drugs to get through the day, then his philosophy or whatever you'd call it is clearly lacking. Drugs are not necessary for survival, they're not needed to live and thrive. It's not hypocrisy but it's more like delusion. He thinks he has some of life figured out but he clearly doesn't. The man is a mess, physically and mentally. He's sick and using the equivalent of herbal remedies to cure himself. It's downright irresponsible to preach to others a message that has at worst pushed you harder onto drugs and at best has left you no less in need of drugs.

>>13975344
His physical health improved in all regards as a consequence of the diet, this really only indicates that we have a substantial tolerance to whatever it is were consuming.

>>13970820

Genius level post.

>>13970880

Reasonable reply.

>>13971041

Retard elevated by his writing ability, whom I will respond to in a longer post.

>>13970846

Barely literate retard.

For the last time he doesn't abuse drugs. His problem is that he tried to quit a prescription medicine cold turkey instead of just lowering the dosage and had negative side effects because of it.

>>13975364
>Found my stepfather hanged in his bedroom
>Found my mother dead of hernia complications in her chair
>My sister died when she was 2 months old
I was emotionally devastated, but I never felt like I NEEDED drugs.

>>13971041

>masquerade as healthy and competent

Something Peterson has never done. He states an ideal that he feels is universal, not some Hemmingway-esque projection of his own neurotic machismo.

>get his house in order

Is he or is he not in therapy to get off what he was prescribed?

>master the beast paragraph

The irony of a person attacking Peterson for being a failure to uphold his standard typing out a point that could be torn straight out of any of Peterson's videos.

>>13975415

If you're not lying, you have my condolences and my respect. I've been at many deathbeds in my line of work, and at my grandfathers. I've also had to hold my family together through a decade of my brother's ridiculous alcoholism. I also haven't had to use drugs to cope with my suffering, but the fact is my man that different human beings have difference levels of tolerance for this stuff. And our society doesn't offer the structure and institution that a normie needs to deal with these emotional traumas. Pity the people that can't help themselves, don't have contempt for them.

>>13975357
>you might for example decide that a good way to transcendence for yourself is to make paintings, but you find that making paintings is a very difficult thing to justify because it is not a very 'safe' job- whether or not you will get your payout is dependent on your connections, your impression of prestige, and the actual quality of your work.
Okay, make another plan or bite the bullet.
>external factors inhibit your own ability to transcend in such a case.
I mean this in the least condescending way possible, but there is a massive degree of entitlement implicit in the whole reasoning here. If you have the luxury of being able to commodify something you would otherwise do for it's own sake you are incomprehensibly lucky. At best you're a success if you can derive passion from your work. If there were ever a person who actually believed it would be impossible to live an engaging life without doing something intrinsically fun like playing games or making art all the time then they would deserve whatever emptiness became them for not looking low enough.

>>13975371
>Drugs are not necessary for survival
You have no idea what mental illness can be like. Depression and anxiety among others can literally immobilize you. If this is your only argument then you're objectively incorrect. Jordan has said before that he is genetically predisposed to these kinds of issues, therefore given his productivity in spite of it you could say his life is well enough in order.

>>13975415
Take the big 5, look at your trait neuroticism score.

>>13975498
>You have no idea what mental illness can be like.
Drugs are not necessary for survival. If your biggest complaint is not being able to get out of bed or see any point to anything then you're not dying, are you? I'm being serious, drugs are unnecessary for survival because the things they "treat" don't kill you.

>>13975527
Okay, how do you sustain income if you cant get out of bed, smartass? Get the government to provide it for you?

>>13974437
If I have a headache and take a Tylenol, the effect the Tylenol has on my body is much less drastic than the effects an antidepressant has on my body if I suffer from depression. The Tylenol won’t make me hallucinate, won’t make me hyperactive, won’t make me suicidal, won’t give me weird delusions. These are all things that antidepressants can do. Maybe if I take too much Tylenol I might fall asleep for a while or damage my liver a bit. The effects of antidepressants are much more unpredictable and the negatives are much more drastic. Therefore, rhetoric or not, the pain killer still has a much simpler effect, and the antidepressant still does “fuck with complex neurochemistry in a clumsy way.”

>>13975375
But why did he lie about not sleeping for 25 days?

>>13975568
Money is not a survival need.

Food is. Food banks exist in every city.

>>13975594
Who knows, why dont you ask him yourself?

>>13975594
>>13975612
This isn't even a lie, retard. Anyone who's ever had serious sleep issues can confirm that you can have these periods of """sleep""" where it feels like you genuinely, seriously didn't sleep at all. It feels like you were awake the entire time.

>>13975611
What do you suppose someone ought to do if they cant function without the assistance of prescribed drugs?

Drug addict who believes in the carnivore diet and makes his fortune as a self-help fraud.

This guy should be taken about as seriously as Jill "Vaccines Cause Autism" Stein.

>>13970392
Peterson Joker transition?

>you know, bucco. I used to care about society. But what did society get me?

I'm a fan of people whose lives turn into a work of art, and while I'm not a big fan, Peterson's one of them. A guy who pulls the rope for being a productive, effective member of society, only to ingest enough of its poison to become very sick is a pretty standard arc for people living in the developed world.
"But I tried to do the right thing," reaching for bottle of oblivion to set things straight for a little while, maybe.

he never said it was easy

>>13972804
>You have no spending power and are taxed to hell? Move, minimalize, and eventually switch jobs.
The correct solution is shooting the government

>>13972684
>You don't get to be a fucking junkie and lecture others about life. It doesn't work that way.
tumblr-tier "argumentation"

>>13972684
>dude mental illness ISN'T REAL it's just SOCIETY MAN
lmao look at this retard

>>13970270
Read Tribe by Sebastian Junger

>>13970291
Okay but at least I don’t scream at ghosts anymore, thanks blanket

>>13972539
okay make you sure reject anesthetic when you need surgery. it's not medically necessary right?

do know an old person they care about? or someone with arthritis? less pain/depression generally improves your mood and enables you to live a better life. why do do many people in this threat just not get this? is it autism?

>>13977400
his fucking book has a whole rule about "cleaning your room bucko." that poster is literally making peterson-tier arguments

>>13975527
by your logic the increasing number of male suicides in the past 8 years is showing that there's a clear failure in whatever system is supposed to be reading them. I'd agreed, and say Peterson has been one of the only voices seriously addressing it free of political or religious dogma

a person who's struggled with depression isn't disqualified from giving advice, especially when they've still been honest about their faults and undeniably successful areas. the ideas Peterson's laid out are solid, especially when they aren't filtered through bad faith essays

also, the recent news over his addiction was a direct result of
being prescribed an extremely addictive anti-depressant while
his traveling partner and wife of 30 year was nearly dying during several usually fatal surgical complications. it hardly the vice of an irresponsible fraud drowning his fears in a bottle

>>13970278
All he had to fucking do was cut back his tours, his talks, his interviews, and wind down his celebrity appearances. All he had to do was take time to care for his sick dying wife. BUT NO he had to keep being an attention whore and gobble down Benzos like candy so he could keep putting on the facade of the psych guru. Had he had the humility to withdraw, I’m sure his fans would have understood if not admired him for it, but instead he became a junkie fuck

>>13970278
fpbp

>>13970270
>you will never shoot heroin with JBP

such is life, such is suffering

>>13970814
A mentally well adjusted persons advice is completely worthless to someone who is mentally ill.

I was, and still am, a massive fan of Jordan Peterson, but this whole antidepressants malarkey really disappointed me. His entire schtick is confronting the inevitable tragedy of existence head on, and developing a character strong enough to deal with this in a truly mature way. Maps of Meaning contains lots of useful advice to this effect. And yet, when confronted with tragedy in his own life, Peterson's character is not strong enough and he resorts to drugs to dull his experience. Sad!

I can only assume that Peterson naturally experiences emotions intensely - it's clear when you read or listen to him that he's not exactly a normal chap, and lives pretty close to the edge of madness. He's previously justified the use of antidepressants in such cases for his clients, so I guess he's just extending that to himself - and now he knows why that might not always be a smart idea.

>>13975415
At least you had things anon, there's people who couldn't treasure anything.

But maybe you're not considering that there's people why psychosis in the world, and maybe medication is a way of not strangling their daughter because the voices say that she's been possesed....Just an example .

I've taken drugs, but not like i wanted them nor felt like i needed them, just the mental health system prioritizes medication before treatment.

I don't like drugs in general and think they can make an obstacle in your future life because of side effects, but sometimes people have no other way or are just forced into it.

>>13978371
Everybody lives "close to the edge of madness".
Peterson just makes it seem like it's exclusive to milky motherfuckers.

>>13978468
Not sure that's true. The majority of people seem pretty comfortable with the conditions of life, and pass through it without overthinking things too much. I'm guessing the majority of us here are different to that, and Peterson seems like an extreme version who has been tormented by his thoughts for decades (although I thought he'd managed to overcome that with his sort of agnostic existentialism).

>>13978486
I like that you know peterson is shit.
But.
Comfort is bad and most people are fucking insane you need to be more aware.

>>13970288
>If you need drugs to get through the day, clearly your principles don't hold much weight to yourself let alone anyone else
what if your principles are 'smoke weed everyday'

>>13974583
#rekt
>>13974789
This so much
>>13974858
>Quit idolizing a return to nature. Life is pain. Reality is misery. Only the dead know peace.
You are 100% wrong. Life is pain but, that only bothers us if it's pain without use or meaning. Reality isn't misery, your false worldview being enforced as policy is misery for all of us smart enough to see through the bullshit, and I'm not dead but I find great peace in the knowledge that you and your ilk will fall because lies and evil have no essence of their own and they always undercut themselves in a catastrophic fuckup.

>>13974890
He is an enabler and a gatekeeper. He belongs on the pyre.

>>13974995
Based and breadpilled.
>>13975024
Very based.
>>13975058
Delibaretely malevolent. Yes it's our fault to a point. But the fact that there is very little worth living for is not our fault. Liberals and jewish scum went out of their way to destroy, debase, eliminate, ridicule and in general poison everything that was beautiful, inspiring or great and they did it all for freedom. Well now we have freedom but there is nothing worth choosing.
Because liberals fucked up and didnt realizr that they are trading diamonds for baloons of air.
So it's actually the fault of Peterson and people like him.

>>13975175
>rip pf ancient philosophers and religious leaders and repackage their wisdom with tixic hyperindividualism
>productive
Peterson brought absolutely NOTHING new to the table.
>>13975344
Top kek
>>13975375
It indicates that he lied for shock value.
>>13975409
His problem is that he is a weak liar.
>>13975864
Yes it is a lie. Sucks to be caught eh?

>>13970820
Actually chuckled reading this

>>13979029
You'll stop being a teenager one day, I promise

JP is not wrong you know.
Its just the changes he speak about are way too hard for all but those who would probably have made it on their own anyway.

>>13975058
>it's your fault
>>13979061
>deliberately malevolent

I've never heard him says it's LITERALLY ONLY your fault. if I understand him correctly it boils down to:

1. even when miserable conditions NOT your fault, a bitter and resentful outlook makes things worse for you and your family/community, and that part IS your fault
2. it's on you to work with that you're dealt
3. your best chance of having a decent life is WILLINGLY working in whatever ways you can to make things definitively better, no matter how small

there isn't a "destroy your oppressors" aspect to his words because it's really hard to perform without extreme tragedy for yourself. it's the last ditch effort of the desperate, or manipulated

>>13975106
>no one is stupid enough to deny man's responsibility

yes people are!
that's what's caused this age of constant liberal victomhood and Jewish decay that the other post complaining about! people are being taught that traditional responsibilities are just bigotry, sexism, and racism and should be destroyed

the only reason JBP is even relevant is because the swaths of loser men who weren't taught about the importance of traditional responsibility and were suffering for it

>>13970270
If you'd read any good literature in your life, you would know that a man can possess the secret of immortality, but be unable to utilize it himself.

>>13973291
It goes with the entirety of western thought. It's inevitable.

>>13974583
lmfao

Imagine needing a meme self help book to get your life together

>>13979710
No one cares what you think, only what you do.

Actions matter, circlejerking about how smart you are is for pseuds.

>>13970288
Either this is some nice spicey bait or youre just plain retarded.

>>13980231
Why?

>>13975058
>only that you are the primary contributor to your own existential dissatisfaction, which is correct
How is that correct? Imagine quality of life as a function of your actions and some parameters that you have no access to. By changing parameters one can easily change maximum value of the function, so even if you optimize your own actions and achieve maximum on this function, it will still be very small or even negative (if we normalize the function).

>>13980738
It's not bait.

Drugs may have become normalised but that doesn't make them good for you. Drugs are never the answer, and anyone who says so is an ignorant cunt. It's not a case of "well some people just need them they're born like that". No, that's wrong. If you have to drug yourself into going out into the world you find yourself in, THE WORLD is fucked up not YOU. The cure is removing yourself from the environment raping your mind, but you're too cowardly to do that.

>>13970843
millions have said the same thing about xxxtentacion lmao

>>13980753
>Why?

>>13970392
uhhh what the fuck are those green things

>>13981090
Do you not know?

>>13981116
I do, retard.

>>13981134
So why?

>>13977851
But he did cut back on them. Even if he completely stopped I don't think it would have done him any good because he would be constantly thinking about his wife.

You sound like a narcissic NEET

>>13980771
You're one of the retards who doesn't know anything aboht medicine and just pretends to be smart, aren't you

>>13981141
Because Jordan Peterson is the drugged up mentally ill.

>>13981239
So how does that make what you replied to funny?

>>13981244
A moron like you wouldn't understand, why the interest.

>>13981259
Can you not explain it?

>>13974387
this guy's asking the real questions

>>13974789
what are the real causes of misery for the normies? what reading, podcasts, or youtube channels would you suggest to enlighten me?

>>13981271
That peterson is loser trash?

>>13975106
>but this is not what we are arguing about here.
Then what are we arguing about?
>>13980762
>By changing parameters one can easily change maximum value of the function, so even if you optimize your own actions and achieve maximum on this function, it will still be very small or even negative (if we normalize the function).
I fundamentally disagree. Gratitude is a value, not an object. Material circumstance constitutes the difficulty of the test, not the ceiling of salvation.

>>13970270
>Society clearly offers people nothing but misery, it holds no answers.
It has plenty, but reserves them for the chosen race. You cattle-folk, work for them, feed the international jew.

>>13970282
your cognitive processing skills are alarmingly low, the dude didn't say anything negative about mental health issues u big dummy