/lit/ - Literature

>>13960416
needs a better name, something faggy like inkstains or some shit

>>13960416
Writing is cringe and gay. I'm too good for writing. I'm better than every last faggot on this board. Also, philosophy is gay, you look stupid with your black turtleneck, and you're going to get cancer if you keep smoking.

>>13960416
very gay post

Alright, you fucking faggots, you win.

Sounds like a good idea to me desu

>>13960416
cringe.

>>13960459
now that you've seen the error of your ways, you can be welcomed with open arms by having your idea pilfered.

Good links/PDF dumps should include
>Paris Review interviews
>Calvino - Six Memos for the next Millennium
>John Gardner - The Art of fiction / On becoming a novelist
>David Lodge - The Art of Fiction
>Shrunk & White - Elements of Style
>A usage dictionary
>W. W. Watt - An American Rhetoric
>Nietzsche - Toward the Teaching of Style
>Rilke - Letters to a Young Poet
>Gass - World Within the Word
>DFW - Quack this way

>>13960416
I'm currently working on three main projects, but they're all in the editing phase, so I've not been producing any new written content lately. It discourages me to do so, but I'm starting to understand how crucial careful revision can be.

I'm currently writing a short story based in a surrealist post apocalyptic tale about obedience and belonging in society, a creative essay about how the introduction of the internet and constant connection has changed my mindset and the interactions of those around me as well as the greater problems of the world, and I am about to release the first chapter of a serial short fiction project based on a dark fantasy version of post-colonial America on its own website.

Keep grinding boys! The only way to make it is to focus everyday and never give up! One thing I'm starting to learn about career writing is that you can't expect to rely on it and will have to accept the fact that you need to love the profession just for the act of doing it or you wont succeed.

What have been your favorite books on the subject of writing or just prose that has helped you create your own unique style, /lit/? For me, House of Leaves is a clear influence in my creative nonfiction work, but I'm also trying to implement more of the sort of grounded prose that you find in books like King's. In all of the workshops and classes I attend, I get the same feedback saying that my pieces play a lot with elevated language and it gets hard to understand the meaning behind them. What are your main problems, /lit/, and how are you striving to get past them?

>>13960416
dislike how that image >implies that the individual has not bearing on their literary output. that it is solely governed by material conditions, a shirt you can buy and put on and off. tough somewhat true, really undermines the craft desu.

>/wg/
What does the wallpaper board have to do with this?

>>13960627
Ew, he wrote more than two sentences. Post more shitposts are get outta here, fagboy.

>>13960416
Now that I think about I don't see the writing generals as often as they used to be.
Slowly they got replaced by the write what's on your mind and novel ideas.
Anyways, I started a diary but I'm not sure how to go about it. I often just write some random thoughts, a piece of a poem or quote that I liked during the day. I can't get myself to describe what I do in a day

>>13960627
Mmmh, is it worth it to go to one of those workshops? It gives me the impression nobody would read your stuff and rather look for criticism for their stuff.

>>13960438
this

>>13960538
this is a good idea

>Blogpost:
Working on the semifinal draft of my novel desu. The project has gone on for about a year now, but only because I keep working in starts and stops. I hope to finish this draft before the end of 2019.

>>13960416
>I think we should compile some material that may help people in their journey and always start the /wg/ with the links on top.

If anyone's looking for a good word processing tool, I can definitely endorse vim. It's got a bit of a learning curve, but I much prefer it to Word now that I've gotten used to the basic commands.

Likewise, writing TeX documents instead of Word documents has saved me a lot of time re-numbering footnotes and fussing with formatting. Highly recommend for academic work and DFW-style footnotes-in-fiction.

Last but not least, git is a great tool for anyone who wants to track their writing habits (or keep copies of old drafts without a lot of manual work).

>>13960627
>In all of the workshops and classes I attend, I get the same feedback saying that my pieces play a lot with elevated language and it gets hard to understand the meaning behind them.

I think part of the reason your readers feel this way is how many words you use to communicate a single thought. For example, you could rewrite this sentence as:

>When I attend workshops, I usually get the same feedback: my work uses a lot of elevated language, which makes it difficult to understand.

The trick is to take phrases like "understand the meaning behind them" and ask yourself, "Am I telling the reader something they already know?" In this example, it's easy to infer that readers are trying to understand what your work means, so you can omit "the meaning behind them" and trust us to put that together ourselves.

>>13960680
Totally depends on the workshop. If it's a good group, everyone takes an honest interest in everyone else, because helping others sharpens your eye. But a poor group can be very painful to work with. Generally, the best workshops are organized by professional teachers and/or published authors. College clubs are a mixed bag. Stay away from anything on social media.

finishing a piece for the lit quarterly
working on a couple ideas to potentially do nanowrimo
also working on a few papers for classes

>>13960680
Most of the workshops I've attended are part of my curriculum. One of my majors is English and I have a minor in Creative Writing.

From what I've learned, a lot of critiques come from people who have no idea what they're talking about, so you have to learn to filter out bad feedback. Still, I think it's beneficial to have an audience just so you can see how people (even if they are lay-readers) will react to your work.

I've also started my own feedback forum at my university that was invite only. I've gotten a bit more helpful feedback from this because we've been working together for a while and know each others' styles.

Really, I think my best takeaway from forums and workshops is the improvement of my own skills to critique. I work in a uni Writing Center so I've read a lot of pedagogical theory about the proper format for feedback that not only motivates but also offers critique that will lead the writer to make meaningful improves based on what they need and what they're working on. Improvement of your own critique skills will translate into a better eye when you're editing and writing your own stuff, I think. At least, that's part of how I justify my participation in workshop classes. I struggle sometimes with ego regarding my writing, so I try to find ways to bolster my own writing even when the writers I'm working with might be weaker and less confident in their work.

>>13960703
That's a good point. I've seen this articulated by a few famous writers in their own discourse on writing and it's something I've always struggled with. I'm just so fond of wordy prose that sounds nice. This usually leads to a tendency to get lost in the sauce in terms of rhythm and cadence in my work. Rough Draft Excerpt:

Sometimes you glance up and the clock has broken in half, withered away until the glass is shattered and its steel hands have rusted and fractured. Ready to decompose. Dehydrated. Debased. Dessicated and disconnected from that sacred space.

Breathe. Rehydrate. Refuel. Divert responsibility and plan your next escape.


It's definitely something I try to watch for in the editing stage. That's, of course, just one of my vices in my writing. Part of me wants to keep at least some complexity to my works, though that may just be some of my influences pervading into my style: MZD, Pynchon, etc.

The self publishing market is quite crowded now. Anybody know any niches to exploit. I want to make some dough before I work on novels only a couple of people would read

Ive got a real dumbshit question.
If you post excerpts or drafts of your writing for review on this site, do you open yourself up for losing ownership of the writings? Say someone writes a fairly succesful book, but posted a draft of it on here to get feedback. Can anybody jew him?

>>13960627
>In all of the workshops and classes I attend, I get the same feedback saying that my pieces play a lot with elevated language and it gets hard to understand the meaning behind them.
Never compromise for plebs.

The yelling and fighting between my boss and his wife drives me insane. I don't have the time for that she says. We will have to take care of it sooner or later he says. I take out both services of the day and notice that I recognize the family from the second one. We get ready to leave and the deceased's daughter asks to ride in the hearse with me. She asked for my number a few months ago. While I'm driving, out of nowhere, she tells me while crying that her mom was enthusiast about the idea of she marrying me. Now an odd feeling of guilt invades my system. Her mother's eyes penetrating the metal from the casket behind me. She doesn't know me and neither does or will her mom. I try to comfort her. I slowly move my hand near to her hand. She knows I'm married, but still she holds me tightly like you would a loved one. Her hand is warm and with a slight redness. It's not a grip that you would give a stranger. It's not cold and lifeless despite the circumstances. I haven't felt another hand that isn't my wife's in years. It's a refreshing feeling that pump some blood into my pale cheeks. I give her a smile and squeeze her hand as you would a child's. We remain silent the rest of the way.

>>13960904
That's the eternal struggle. There's something to be said for guys who make their writing purposefully unreachable, though. That's dangerously unmarketable territory.

>>13960416
More a question about the organisation: How do you do it?

I was very happy with my method of taking notes in Apple Notes for immediate stuff and then having a large word file for more refined stuff (since scrolling is more comfy when you see 6 pages at the same time) but now … I'm running into a limit.

Basically my, let's call it "book I notes/deleted scenes/etc file" has 180pages/50k words. It's separated by meta/act 1-4 (sometimes which chapter number)/unsorted long ass scenes & dialogues between two characters ... as you can imagine, due the stupid size, sometimes it's tricky to find a specific thing. But wait, there is more and it gets worse!

Just copied the Apple Notes file into another word document and that shit has 28k more words. The separation is similar as above and I want to consolidate the two, which takes quite a while and will leave me with a fucking novel sized document just for notes. It's suboptimal to say the least.

Was thinking about putting the "unsorted long ass scenes & dialogues between two characters" bits into another file but it'll be basically putting lipstick on a pig. Creating additional documents for each Act will probably add too much clutter too.

>>13960984
I keep notes on my phone and then transfer the solid ideas to a physical notebook which I reference while I write. Makes it easier for me to "see"
>>13960416
I love this idea and I hope a writer General keeps popping up. So I have a question I'm writing some hot goth chick character and I'm currently debating whether she will have black hair or white hair. Which is better and which is cringe? I mainly want to use her in hopes that the novel becomes popular and hot chicks dress up as her during Halloween since I love looking at Wednesday and Morticia Adams Halloween costumes, gets my dick rock hard.

>>13960703
why vim?
genuinely interested.

>>13960703
Do you use any plugins or scripts?

I have been toying with making it more suited for novels and the like. Right now I use a pretty nice file browser plugin that allows me to just use the terminal and filesystem for outlining, the directory tree makes the outline, it all can be easily moved through from within vim and edited and rearranged as needed. The one issue is this means each section of the outline is its own file, which is not a huge deal, but it could be better. I am thinking of trying to work it with folds, so vim would open all the files in one buffer, each file would be its own fold and you can navigate it with the file manager and easily open and close various parts as needed. Probably write a small script for revisions as well, type a command and it duplicates the current file as a new draft and dumps you right in and something to easily navigate two different revisions at the same time in a split window. I just started investigating using vim for this and am still digging through the plugin archive looking to see what I can use and what I can steal from.

>>13961925
Not him, but once you learn vim, it is very powerful and quick. For me it is just more habit, I have been using linux for 20 years now and vim comes on all distributions and it is what I am used too.

Opening to my erotica Novella. Someone confirm it’s shit so I can drop it once and for all.

Much argumentation had ensued in the O’Connor household when Mary, the eldest daughter, received a letter from her Aunt Lydia offering her a job in the household of a certain Lord Maxwell. The letter detailed the dismissal of a wayward maid and spoke of the ‘friendly atmosphere’, the ‘collegial spirit’, and the various dignities associated with being a housemaid in the Maxwell House. Mary protested that she had aspirations beyond (her words) servicing fat-faced Englishmen who couldn’t tell bread from butter. “Besides,” she said, mimicking her father’s dinnertime speeches, “I’m not made for it. O’Connor used to be a great name in these lands; our ilk are not servants.”

Mary’s father was a stout gentleman with a rugged beard who was much friendlier than he looked. He loved his daughter very much, and his eyes betrayed him of it. “There’s a lot to be learned from service,” he told her. “Patience, humility, hard work. Do not discount these things on account of your pride.”

Mary grew infuriated at the suggestion that her refusal was borne on mere hubris. Her family had always been held in high regard within their community; to her mind it seemed like a preposterous suggestion that she should take up the role of a housemaid, bowing and grovelling at every turn. “Servility, slavishness, exhaustion. How about those venerable virtues you forget to mention? Are they also important for me to learn?”

Father cast her a look of paternal indignation. “Have you not read how our Lord humbled himself before his disciples, deigning to kneel down before them to wash their feet, a task reserved for the lowest of slaves? And what was his response when Saint Peter pleaded with him not to humiliate himself in such a way? ‘I came to serve, not be served.’
“And who are you, Miss O’Connor? A simple girl, daughter to farmers, confused and lost in your youthful inclinations, having not seventeen years ago to be nursed by your mother. You are too high and lofty to take up a respectable position offered to you by your aunt?
“You are my daughter, Mary. I will not compel you. But understand that this air of haughtiness you carry around with you is a thousand times less dignified than the work of any housemaid.”

>>13961965
After a little thought, I like the file per section outlining method. Once I figure out how to get vim to read it as a single file and still write it in the proper individual files I should be able to make it push and pull different revisions for just a section, so it actually works like an outline. Then just need to make it easier to create the outline, which should be simple enough, think I already know how to do that.

>>13960892
copyright belong to the creator
as long as you have evidence that you created it, you have the copyright for the material
so just make sure that there’s evidence of the draft on your computer before posting

>>13960984
i’ve never written anything that long, but assuming that i had that much raw material, i would try to organize it into a new document and edit it at the same time
i would probably work in 1000-2000 word chunks, edit them, and then decide where they belong in the story
look at scrivener, it can be pirated on mac or windows and would do exactly what you would want to do

isnt too bad actually
i’m curious as to why make it erotic, there is enough of a story in mary overcoming pride imo
jane austen made more of less

>>13960703
based engineering best practices
>tfw i have to cherry pick commits to drop the word “nigger” from a draft

>>13960416
I think that small consistent effort is a better strategy than trying to do an insane writing regiment that will most likely burn you out and have you give up. I read an hour a day and underline. Then I write 10 arguments in my notebooks from my underlines, youtube videos, or copypastes I keep on a text file on my pc. You don't have to plan it all out if you start small you'll figure what the next step is overtime. For example I started off only with reading and underlining then I started writing 10 arguments a day in my notebooks. Now I figured out a way to tag my arguments per topic on google keep since I had writen to many arguments to keep track of all my topics. Now I'll start typing 10 arguments from my notebooks everyday and tagging them per topic. I'll continue to figure out the topics as I go along.

>>13960716
How does one submit to the lit quarterly? Do you need to provide you real name?

I didn't go to a writing school, I went to the library.

>>13960416

here's some good websites to help out any other lazy procrastinating bastards like me:

https://writeordie.com/
https://www.mywriteclub.com/beta/word-sprints#/
https://4thewords.com/home

and to improve typing speed and accuracy:

https://play.typeracer.com/

Is there any point trying to be a writer if you know deep down you have nothing important to say?

>>13962517
oh and to help improve your prose, grammar, style here:

https://prowritingaid.com/en/Home/
https://www.grammarly.com/
http://editminion.com/
http://www.hemingwayapp.com/

I'd love to write poetry, but I don't know what to write about! Any help getting into the mindset would be appreciated. A question I have is - do most great poets write using form? Every poem I've written in my life has been with form, but whenever I read a fabulous poem and then try and scan it, it seems very loose.

>>13960421
Quill Craft General

>>13962529
Don't use these. They're terrible crutches.

>>13962535
If you want to write using form, start with sonets. You can pick selected poems from different writers and search some literary analyses about them. These will typically contain everything you need to know about the form, structure, stress and other useful things about the sonets.

>>13962523
Try journalism. I joined a student newspaper in college, started off with little to say, and developed writing experience picking up weekly leads (e.g. "report on this").

From news reporting, I met different kinds of people and had experiences to inspire writing.

If you're not in college, you can alternatively get interesting life experiences (as a doctor, engineer, soldier, etc.) to get something to write about.

If you can't find an interesting career path, you can read lots from high-quality sources (quality books, magazines, etc.). This might drive you to make rich experiences happen in your own life, to write about.

^These are all ways to get something important to say.

If you don't want to do any of the above to have something to write, you'll run out of material quickly to become a writer.

There is a point in improving your writing, though. Being articulate is important in persuasiveness, leadership, and conversation.

But there's a difference between getting better at writing and becoming a writer.

>>13960416
I almost made this thread yesterday. It was going to be called /cwg/ (Creative Writing General).

I suggest including some resources like these:

>>13960538
I would like to add:
Nobody Wants to Read Your Shit - Steven Pressfield

>>13960416
It's been some time that I've been writing my book, I almost done it. But I just can't think of a good beginning. Or to be more precise, a reason for my hero to go on an adventure. Any tips regarding that?

>>13962618
You need to study the 12 steps of a story and start again. And I mean that unironically. The ending should be implied by the beginning or it's a shit story.

Do you guys write daily ? 5 days a week ? And how many hours ?

>>13962618
>>13962627
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey#Summary

>>13962627
That's why I got the Journey, but not the end and the beginning. I think I should be more precise.
Basically, I did an entire graphic about how my story is going to be told, every single chapter. So, the thing is, I start writing from the start, sure, but the thing is that I just cant make the transition between the beginning of the book and the beginning of the journey. The end in my mind is crystal clear, but I haven't wrote because I don't know what will be the element that pushes the character to go on a journey. I got many ideas, but I'm not sure if any one of them is actually good.

>>13962554
No, they're good tools for people who are still learning or need some help with grammar and punctuation. And they can help catch things and provide simple fixes for things that might be missed during writing or editing. Much better to run it through something like this and not have some of the elementary school errors I see all over amateur writer's prose. No one needs to use them as law all the time, but they are very helpful. Stop spreading useless disinformation.

We should merge this with the NaNoWriMo thread.

>>13962641
If you apply the heroes journey properly, there's really only one sensible answer or "most complete" reason which will fit the rest of the story perfectly.

Also read the Steven Pressfield book recommended here for practical application of this method. >>13962611

>>13962631
i write every day but the very vast majority of it is done on an anonymous traditional mongolian basket weaving forum so it's not very constructive.

>>13962650
yikes

>>13962666
Satan, there's nothing yikes about creative writing exercises

>>13962650
This thread is for people serious about their craft, anon.

>>13962653
I got the structure, I got the plan, I just don't have that 'thing' that would allow me to properly say 'The hero has lost everything that matters in his life, and thus he finds the will to follow this female vigilante who is looking for a revenge against the same people who burned everything the protagonist knew.'

>>13962682
Just have his parents die in a tragic car accident. Or he gets fired from his job. etc.

>>13960416
How do I start? I am interested in writing for quite some time, but I've got no idea how to practice. I assume short stories? Descriptions?

>>13962750
More like, go to a library, or a calm place, and describe the mood. Then, think of a random situation and describe it in details. Make them longer from time to time. Look for news words, expressions, styles, synonyms.
And also read other books. Any recommandation from /lit/ is great, in the sense that you can read it and think about how the book could have been better or why it is good.
Also read theories about writing, that's good for ya.

>>13962750
Just start writing. Afterwards, look over it and see what you don't like. Also, read some of the books recommended ITT.

Creating anything is just as much about your taste. If you want to write well, you need good taste. To get good taste, read better books.

>>13962771
>>13962787
Fair enough, thanks!

>>13962798
Also, if you need to expand your imaginary field, look up for good bizarre and unique artists online and describe their work. I would also suggest you to write a dream journal, that is if you can remember your dreams, of course.

>>13962750
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiction_writing#Elements_of_fiction

break down writing into parts, study each element of fiction then slowly weave them into each other as you learn more and more.


learn how to write simple scenes
https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/writing-the-perfect-scene/

keep it simple, don't try to be all poetic and shit when you're starting just write simple well structured stuff. don't run before you can crawl. Don't try to be Joyce or any of that other literary dogshit until you know the fundamentals.

Just an excerpt. No mercy, please.

There is a road that winds up a small pass into the mountains of Citrusdal, where one feels the indolence of a mountain kingdom that never was. The driver feels an Altitude, after exceeding which, the body, and more crucially the mind become lighter - incumbent with a dose of peace. Through the glass window, a landscape that is both rugged and lush meets the eye. The dried-blood-red peaks of Table Mountain Sandstone accommodate the horizon, as fields of green Citrus blanket the lower recesses of the foothills. The leaves of an Orange tree being so green in this catatonic landscape, to imply an immaterial - nay, implausible leap of biome, as if incompatible yet forced. These fields stretch and crawl up as high as arable soil can go before the animal distance beyond begins, where the trees might grow on rock and bring forth fruits so sharp even the women most prone to Determinations of Tract Infection won’t eat them. Inside the jungles of Citrus a man can be lost for days.

>>13962814
incompatible yet forced

>>13962814
catatonic

>>13962814
It's oniric, but quite fuzzy sometimes. Otherwise, I like it.

>>13962814
As an anon in a crit thread once said-
"an exercise in somnolence"

“I fucking love big black cocks” Anon thought to himself pensively as he shoved Jamal’s nine inch cock in his mouth.

It was in the middle of autumn and the leaves fell to the ground like some kind of rain but with leaves instead of raindrops.

“Succc” Jamal exclaimed as he shoved his black dong down anon’s throat.

Anon sucked Jamal until he cummed and drank all his sticky negro seed.

“You aight white boi.” Jamal said zipping up his pants.

Anon sat naked in the dark alley pondering the meaning of life, the universe and everything as he licked his lips savoring the taste of Jamal’s jizz.

“It’s only gay if your balls touch” anon reassured himself.

Little did he know that a gay vampire was watching him from the rooftops.

To be continued.

>>13962884
They all died.
The End.

>>13962814
>Citrusdal
Dumb name, sorry anon.

>The driver feels an Altitude, after exceeding which, the body, and more crucially the mind become lighter - incumbent with a dose of peace
This sentence sucks. Yes it's very clever but it's an eyesore to read. Have sympathy on your readers. Read The Elements of Style.

>is both rugged and lush
Bad description. Don't just juxtapose two opposite descriptions without even qualifying them. For example, one sentence could describe the rugged aspects, the next the harsh.

Ok, so afterwards you did this. Just get rid of the above sentence.

>The leaves of an Orange tree being so green
Boring. Try something like this.
>Each tree adorned with emerald leaves

>nay
>biome
You've used a Ye Olde English language trope right next to a scientific term.

>as if incompatible yet forced
This is too wordy.

>stretch and crawl
This combination is bad and you don't need both.

>arable
>Tract Infection
This jargon is grating when combined with the very flowery prose.

>Inside the jungles of Citrus a man can be lost for days.
Boring and uninteresting. Try something like this.
>Many have entered. Few have returned.

>>13962932
>Many have entered. Few have returned.
Don't use this because it's too cliché. But make it more interesting than, being lost for days. Tell me how explorers died or mysteriously disappeared and were never heard from again etc. You will have to justify this by describing the jungle as a labyrinth or whatever words you choose.

>>13962932
Appreciate the critique. Seems my juxtaposing/thematic inconsistency, even within single sentences, can be a bit jarring, as you have stated.

Citrusdal is a real place, I quite like the plain-ness of the name, but perhaps that's just me.

>>13962870
>>13962880

Cheers, definitely what I am going for.

Got another form rejection but the agent still managed to include her pronouns at the bottom.

Working on a new project but pretty dispirited in general. Might as well be doing wood carvings.

Just self-published something new if anyone wants to check it out. It's free for the week. Thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/Golden-Road-Unlimited-Devotion-ebook/dp/B07YQ5FSQW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+golden+road+to+unlimited&qid=1570636143&sr=8-1

>>13962959
Citrusdal sure looks like a comfy place.

>>13962959
Without being familiar with that place name, it just seems completely contrived for the purpose of saying it yields oranges, feels very low effort and forced into a name.

Pic related is what you need most right now. I also think you should read more high quality fiction, which you will naturally grow to imitate. Which books do you like Anon?

How do I write large scale fantasy battle scenes? Am I going to have to dig up some military formations and tactics and shit so that everything makes sense because that kinda seems like a lot of work.

>>13962982
I enjoy Pynchon and Melville (memes, I know). I just read Paradise Lost, which I was stunned by. Beyond that I love Dostoevsky, Solzhenitsyn and Eco.

I have only really begun to write in my free time. Though I love the clear power of writers like Melville and Dosto, something about Pynchon's frenetic prose gets me going.

So, I am finding my feet.

>>13963006
And Faulkner

>>13963006
>>13963010
That's great anon, keep it up!

>>13963004
Read some, see how they do it and pick the method you like best.

>>13963004
well, you can write lazy trash like most do, or you can do the hard work to make it good. your choice

If I "make it" as a professional author would it be prudent to reveal I frequent this website or would I be blackballed by publishers? Should I hide my power level or would it be okay?

>>13963199
Don’t worry about it because you’ll never make it as a professional author.

>>13960627
sounds like 1984 part 2 we all be waiting for it

>>13960949
Pretty captivating. Kept my interest till the end which is more than I can say about other writing posted in here.

Writing is an art and unless you’re compelled and driven to create through words then you should do something else that makes you happy. I love creating stories based on the concepts of my childhood daydreams. A day writing is never a day wasted

>>13963410
Nothing makes me happy. But I have to do something to pass the time.

>>13963410
That's very based anon. Well done.

How do you guys prefer to write your novels? I'm 30k words in my novel and just now I realized it's one of those novels with lots of dialogue tags and close description of a character's actions. I fucking hate it so much.

>>13962814
Easy on the Thesaurus, bugs.

>>13962814
>bring forth fruits so sharp even the women most prone to Determinations of Tract Infection won’t eat them

This is one of those unintenionally funny moments you definitely do NOT want in your novel, anon.

>>13963463
Thats the idea

>>13963410
Motherfucker, now that's a stack. Congratz.

>>13963449
My stuff is very dialog heavy too, especially the first draft has conversations going over board and beyond, but it's helpful for the revision, by then I know what the characters are all about and can compress the stuff, focus more on the unsaid and add meaningful actions to break it down.

Though I love reading dialogue from others too, it's the most direct action you can get in a novel.

>>13960538
Add Aristotle's Rhetoric on this list too

>>13963004
I’ve been eyeing these works to help my style with those scenes;
The Worm Ouroboros (especially the part when the armies of Witchland invade Demonland)
The Romance of the Three Kingdoms (great set-up of the armies, and transitions from the larger scene of the battle to the smaller instances within)
Surry of Eagle’s Nest (about the US civil war, the narrator states he’ll let historians tell the technical details about battles, but when he describes the fights they’re usually written in a very nice prose, like how the artillery changes positions or when the two sides race towards a vantage point)

>>13960538
Also add in the Progymnasmata.

seeing all the pretentious meandering dogshit written with an open thesarus makes me feel much better about actually getting published. if this is the competition that floods in as submissions. haha my sides

refrigerateable

>>13960627
Personally I thought a Wizard of Earthsea influenced my writing. The way it develops and describes this fictional world of seaside beauty is kinda surreal

>>13964767
Given the sheer numbers the stuff still hinders your chances. An agent having to shift through 950 shitty queries before they get to the 50 decent ones might be too cynical and exhausted to appreciate what they are seeing.

>>13960883

Erotica. There is always an audience for erotica.

>>13962523

For me, it's a middle class living that requires I work for 3 hours a day, 4 days a week. It's not a bad life.

>>13962618

What does your protagonist want, what do they need? If you can't answer these, you're fucked.

>>13962750

Just write. You'll learn a thousand times more from writing something and having other read it than you will from trying to "study" writing.

>>13962972

That's the most hideous cover I've ever seen, and the title isn't doing you any favors either.

>>13965046
you self publish?

>>13961925
>why vim?

For me, it's all about efficiency.

I could take my hand off the keyboard, use the mouse cursor to move down one paragraph, and then put my hand back on the keyboard to start typing. Or I could press a single key to skip to the next paragraph.

I could pick up the mouse, fuss with highlighting exactly what I want to delete, delete it, and then start typing. Or I could navigate to it with one command, and overwrite it with another.

It's easier to get your thoughts down when you can navigate the document quickly.

>>13961965
>Do you use any plugins or scripts?

Nope. I actually use vanilla vi for plain-old writing. I've never needed anything fancy when working in TeX.

I section my drafts into chapters (usually between 1,000 and 3,000 words), and write or revise only one chapter per sitting. If I'm working on a short story, I usually keep it to a single document.

I only use vim when I program, and only because I like syntax highlighting.

>>13960892
>If you post excerpts or drafts of your writing for review on this site, do you open yourself up for losing ownership of the writings?

No. Your copyright is protected as soon as you write something. To win a court case, all you have to do is produce evidence that you wrote the draft in question before the other guy did. Most file formats record the date of creation, so that should be enough. If you have a git repository, that's even stronger evidence.

>>13962523
>Is there any point trying to be a writer if you know deep down you have nothing important to say?

Nabokov did it. So can you.

>>13965110

Been at it for two years now.

>>13962972
Fuck it I'll give it a try.

>>13965079
Thank you.

>>13963199
How would that ever naturally come up? "Just so you know, I post on the /lit/ board on 4channel"

I started a short story but I feel like it would only get worse if I kept writing it.
He sat there for an hour or more, watching her cry; he did not know what else to do. He didn’t want to risk saying anything. Words only ever got him into trouble. Still, she waited for him to speak.

She wanted desperately for him to say exactly the right thing. She knew what she wanted to hear, and in a way, so did he. Despite this they were silent, her sniffling cry only partly drowned out by the thrum of the city. Every once in a while he would sip the cold coffee that stood on the table between them.

She really was a pathetic sight; her face was wet and hot without being ugly, her once bright eyes were now cloudied and swollen. She looked down at her lap, as if she were afraid to meet his gaze. He decided that this was the worst part.

He couldn’t say what she needed to hear, and that was the end of it.


Sorry about phone poster formatting.

Feels like I have a problem with POV's.

My story is mainly told through one character in limited 3rd (with stream of consciousness cursive bits) but during the journey additional people are added, and I'm not too certain about the flow since usually one would introduce them sooner. Also it's the first novel of a planned series but obviously has somewhat work as a standalone.

Let's call them A, B, C, D, E, F. I got 21 chapters, starting with A but in chapter 2, 4 and 8 there are bits with B (chasing A but getting into a mess), who get's killed by C. In chapter 9, D is introduced to A, and through chapters 11-13 and 16, she gets her own POV's bits.

So far, so good, I guess but... around chapter 19-20, I wanted to have short scenes with C (who mirrors A but isn't in direct conflict yet), E (who teamed up with A from 3 to 10 and organised betrayal in 17) and F (who has a connection to B and will take over the "chasing A" role). These would be mostly "preview/world-building" types of scenes without a clear conclusion nor apparent relevance to the story of A beyond distant connections.

I really like them though and due the generally fast pacing, some slower stuff wouldn't be too bad, but at the same time, one could remove them and the story would still work - but they would be great for the sequel since these POV characters will get much more prominent roles there.

My gut says hell no, my heart wants it and my brain is tired of my shit. How do you handle POV's?

>>13961973
needs more work but not terrible, although its an erotica novella not high art

>>13965764

its a first draft add more why is it happening in detail etc

>>13960644
Here lies fagboy

>>13966399
That guy here. I could be way off base but I feel like it's something people will understand if they've been through it and that's kind of the point. I do need to flesh it out and add detail but I don't know if telling the reader the exact situation is the right thing.

>>13966615
you can make it interesting without laying it out infront of them while still having more & affecting people who can relate but i am not very well versed myself just know its possible

>vivid stories/movies play through my head
>can't express what I experience on the page
>dozens of stories on the backburner as I develop my writing style and capabilities
Help me be less retarded

>>13966619
Yeah I'll work on it, see where it goes. Thanks brossiah.

>>13960892
>>13962322

You actually have something going.

What if we're all stealing each other's ideas?

>>13966627
>vivid stories/movies play through my head
>can't express what I experience on the page
Pick a smaller scene and experiment. Go crazy creative, try minimalism, try purple prose, try emulating the pictures you see 1-1, try stuff that sounds stupid or something you never saw another author do. Make multiple versions and compare them later.

A lot of it is also down to the voice of the character, so if you're failing with one completely, pick another, totally different one.

>tfw you find out that using adverbs is frowned upon
>tfw you used adverbs at every chance that you got
I don't think this semen slurping hobby is for me.

Came second place in a flash fiction competition last night. There were approximately 40 other submissions. It's not first place but I will take it. Finally have a single writing credential. Funnily enough, it was in a genre I never write in and had to be "family friendly". Not bad for only submitting stories for six months.

>>13966627

There is a very large difference between daydreaming and writing, anon. I had the same problem at first. Pick one of those vivid scenes and describe it. Make sure you use all five senses, not just what you see.

>>13967360
there is no difference between second and last place.

>>13967380
This. Second place is just the first loser.

>>13967380
>>13967380

Well, my shit is still getting published, which is likely more than both of you have accomplished combined.

>inb4 you claim to have several publications

Prove it or fuck off.

>>13967454
i have several publications.

>>13967454
he mad

>>13967484

>Prove it or fuck off

>>13967503

No, just dealing with all the do-nothings on here gets old. I am still getting published and I also won a cash prize. It's okay to be jealous, but don't act like it is nothing.

>>13967528
Don't let yourself be baited so easily Anon, top 3 in a competition is very good.

I got second place in a national literary competition a couple of years ago too, got 1000$ and felt very good about it, still do.

>>13966198
Could you elaborate? What should
I work on?

Any tips on how to relearn subtext? Any podcasts, books or art that relies on it?

/wg/, about 6 months ago I took a break from writing because my prose and dialogue suddenly turned to shit. im trying to get back into it now and neither has recovered. If anything Ive gotten worse.

Im determined to make progress even if my talent has abandoned me and my mind has turned against me, but if there's a way to bring my ability back I need to find it

Here's my take on it.

>>13961973

A fine name O'Connell was, once. And in that household much argumentation had ensued the reading of Mary's letter. For the name of O'Connell was to be dirtied or made by Lord Maxwell.

"I shan't go. I assure you," Mary, daughter eldest, said standing abreast the dinner table, "fat fingered Englishmen are completely without taste, and the O'Connell name will not consent to such servile occupation."

Writing to the girl Mary, Aunt Lydia now old and in her twilight years considered her legacy and the position of her family. By the wise woman's stately experience she encouraged Maxwell's offer and recommended dear Mary to him.

Aunt Lydia drafted the letter and urged the opportunity be taken firmly in hand by Mary. "It will be ever so joyful for you to join us, Mary. Lord Maxwell is a kind man, and a wealthy one too. You must think of your family, now you are a young woman. For the name of O'Connell is at stake."

I'm writing a fantasy-ish adventure novels. I'm hoping to pass it off as YA and get it published even though it's not really YA, it just lacks "mature" content because I'm too autistic and repressed to write about it.

Just finished my first book a few weeks ago. Started writing to what i think is gonna be a short story of a couples day and night and how they both live with mental illness. I like it so far. I see the scenes in my head. Havent written for it in about a week or so. Been trouble for me to find some alone time. Today i might write.

>>13960416
That's because this is a terrible board for discussing the craft by people in a bubble. If you want to discuss the craft of writing, go to a board like CC.

>>13969411
>I'm hoping to pass it off as YA
This will never work if you try to pass it off to an agent, they will see right through that shit and know the exact genre. They will then drop your book, because 1. you're either too stupid to know the genre or 2. you lied about the genre to get the agent to read it.
If you have classification problems, tell the agent that.

>>13962418
hi anon, not him, but check the archive
>>/lit/?task=search&search_text=lit+quarterly
also, there is a website
https://litquarterly.com/

>>13970154
You're not wrong but the downside of more normal boards is that most people suck each other off and wouldn't dare to give, appropriate biting criticism – which creates a different sort of bubble, given how the actual business of writing is far harsher than most rude comment from anons here.

>>13960416
Yes we do, lurk more before making threads you fucking idiot.

How do I get over the thought of me not saying anything original? It tortures me to the point I find no reason to keep writing.

>>13960416
Because entire excerpts are hard to critique with a small word count limit Tbf. Unlike a picture you can look at, a few paragraphs is a small snippet. But it does help and should be stickied.

>>13970170
>If you have classification problems, tell the agent that.
Would that work? I thought in modern publishing if you make the agent do any more work than strictly necessary you won't get anywhere.

>>13970664
If it's a close call, I guess it might. If anon doesn't even remotely know in what genre they are writing in ... there are bigger issues and it's unlikely an agent will even reply.

>>13970581
I kinda get this, like Evrything profound I've said has been said in some way before. I guess you have to become more multifaceted and not just a quip machine or writing based on thought.

>>13970581
>How do I get over the thought of me not saying anything original
You don't

60k word master's dissertation due february and my current word count is 0. What to do?

“Make me weep. Me know that myself. Dumbing that down so that I am made to. Being as inclined as I am to notice something when seeing it. Having an eye for that which is distinctive. For some discernment of what is around us. Which is somewhat that discerned. Somewhat, perfectly seen. With this somewhat damaged vision. With less than the 100%-level of this vision. It held somewhat back. In my specific action. Where I exclude every one but it. Every type but it. Meaning your fixating onto it. As it abides in being so.
Contrarian among us, those enemies. That are hostile towards a contrarian over an opinion we share. The contrarians to the opinion. Offering it a contrary opinion. Changing the one it has. For another of those same ones. Same effort is made. For the same reason yours is, too. An undertaking. Of its. Own effects upon its source. Before it comes. And while I wait for its coming. Wait for the thing now coming. The thing we are missing. Should also complete us. Anything upon its more universal levels. It stripped back to these consistencies. To that basic presence. A universal level. A single one of various levels. Defining one space of various space definers. Taking back the variousness from the implicated space definers. Letting them keep those implications. Up these forethoughts of theirs. These outlooks of theirs. Without factoring these into them. Their end result still will be it. On account of always being them. Always at the max degree of their self-embodiment. Without doing the embodiment of anything. You fill your space. Comprising of your spatial limitations. The frame you are boxed with. For its holding of all of you. For meeting up to the requirements of its very own job. It meets-up to these requirements. It is adequate for functioning as it. Standing-in for it throughout its absence. Representing the place of it still inside of what it left. Did remain its place of it. After leaving it behind. To engage itself with its real thing.
Its baby-felt suffering. The access to it, from babyhood, onwards. The babyhood experiencing. Had by whoever who also is having babyhood. Which is something other than their non-babyhood.”

more on my blog christianjaroschdialogues.com

>>13960416
any poem writers here, /lit/?

>>13971366
sudoku

>>13960416

Critique my poem:

Three Men Reflect

The man who stares at his reflection for long enough finds beauty in the image.
One eye above the other.
Scars remind of youth.
Sparse hairs cling on.
Fat pads out his face.
But he ignores the ugliness.
The man is consumed by his vivid fantasy, occasionally awakening to horror.

A boy walks in and sees an ugly man staring at his reflection.
The boy pities the man’s illusion, vowing to avoid the man’s fate.

The boy glances at his reflection, taken aback by his deformity.
Upholding his vow, the boy stares at the reflection, constantly reminding himself of the ugliness.
Infatuated with his truth, the boy became a man.
The new ugly man bathes in honesty.
Devoted and indebted to truth, the ugliness he recognized becomes his fantasy.
Miserable, he passes his time, wishing for ignorance but proud of his truth.

A third man refuses to look.
Not being.

>>13960438
holy BASED

>>13971537
I don't give a fuck about the prose, or the structure, or the rhythm of whatever; I just disagree with the content.

Sounds like it was written by some 20 year old baby who has no idea what actual adulthood is like, and ASSUMES based off of what he THINKS adulthood is like.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMB.

>>13963199
>why yes, my early work was heavily influenced by calling people faggots on 4channel

>>13972040
that would actually be pretty fucking based

>>13965706
Not that anon but I can imagine someone referencing /lit/ memes enough in their works that make it big which would eventually cause some fag from here to publically bust out the question of their possible affiliation with this place.

Anyone know good places to submit comedy, comic literature or jokes? Parody articles, etc.

>>13972958
lit quaterly

>>13972998
would it be prudent to be publish there if it's linked to 4chan?

>>13972998
Is that a fucking joke?

>>13973031
are you a fucking joke?

>>13973031
do you ask if it's a joke because you know about lit quaterly or do you ask if it's a joke because you don't know about lit quaterly?

>>13973010
i think the guy says that most people use an alias when sending him texts and poems. you get paid too.

I never wrote anything seriously in my but I have to write and direct a movie for Uni. Any books you recommend on writting a screenplay?

>>13970266
You've never gotten critiqued there. If you go to CC, you will get much better critiques than this shithole could ever provide. It's designed for that purpose and the website kit is incredible for that purpose and people don't fuck around there and will point out every single mistake you make. Not only that, but since all the writers have done a good share of editing, critique, and receiving critiques, the quality of critique you get there is literally whole magnitudes better than a place like /lit/.

>>13970664
If your book is good, they'll put in the legwork. Agents are like regular people, but they get hundreds of manuscripts na week.

>>13970664

This >>13973361
If an agent thinks your book is sellable to a publisher, they'll be more than happy to put in some of the work to get it to market. If you're good enough to actually get an agent in the first place, they'll want to help you with exactly this sort of thing. It's their job and the better they do it, the more money they earn.

I've been writing in English since I was 15 because I wanted to start with fanfiction and I knew that the English speaking community was the one I meant to appeal to. I've written a few original short stories in English as well. However, for school and later college I wrote in Spanish, my native language. As a result, I haven't worked on any fiction in my native tongue in a while; I want to start a book in Spanish because I believe I lack the skill for it with any other language, but it's been so long that the process feels stilted and sloppy. Anyone else here had to struggle with something similar?

>>13971931
>prose
>poem

>>13960416
Where should I go to practice writing? I've been thinking about writing fanfics as a means to get feedback and practice. I've no love for fan fictions or the community, but their size is appealing.
>>13960421
typewriter type writers

Really quick, ' or " for emphasis?
I've seen both and from what I can gather from Google, it's " every time but I want more opinions. Or, uh, answers in this case.

>>13971510
Yeah, what's up? What have you been writing? I have a long sonnet sequence that I mostly like that I'm trying to branch away from. I have a 6 page longer poem with it's own structure on related themes that fits well, now I'm trying to see if I can make some other structured poems work or even something entirely different, like an essayistic poem or series on or similar to Wallace Stevens.

My manuscript idea is a book of major sections of the sonnet sequence, one long poem in the middle and one at the end, or have the end progressively degrade into some lesser structured poems. I got positive feedback from the Paris Review earlier this year, but then another form rejection on some other stuff, so oh well.

>>13974685
>in literature, shot through with light like these declining sunsets, these sonnets
I like that part; tugs at you.

>>13974685
You’ve read Ben Lerner’s sequences, I assume ?

>>13974648
I use italics for emphasis but otherwise I would use double quotes. Really, as long as you're consistent, that's all that matters. Pick one and stick to it.

>>13974749
Yes, I admire The Lichtenberg Figures and Angle of Yaw. He's a real influence that lit a fire under college-aged me. Ted Berrigan's The Sonnets is incredible too, the structure of the book as a whole and its ending are perfect. There's a real tradition of American sonnet writing. I naturally admire the long line and the philosophical phrase and they're what inform my best long poem. I've been experimenting with other forms because if anything I've become too comfortable with longer sentences and lines.

>>13974736
Thank you.

>>13974597
i like prose poetry. i like to have "normal" sentences but that have a rhythm and vivid imagery. but then again, i'm a massive faggot.

Should one make an alias if they go down the self publishing romance/erotica route and publish more respectable work by their real name?

>>13975582
That's what I do. I publish erotica under two pseudonyms depending on what I'm writing.

>>13975035
Did you write it? I assumed it was in verse and the lack of techniques like enjambment was intentional.
>>13971537
The poem lacks a lot technically but simplistically isn't the issue. The writing is pretty shallow from what I've gathered and you're doing a lot of telling not showing.
>Scars remind of youth.
This line lacks any subtly and is far too descriptive. The writing is generally redundant although not in a way that would add to the themes. The last stanza is interesting however you lose any structural technique by having the third stanza also being of two lines. Unless of course the meaning behind it is that the third man is just like the other two or that the poem in cyclical? I assumed the opposite by the contents which is why I say you make the structure irregular or the final stanza a monostich. Although you say the third man does not exist. However I fail to see the significance in this

>>13975658
>simplistically
simplicity

>>13975658
>Did you write it?
i didn't. i'd even say the poem posted earlier wasn't really prose poetry though.

>>13975681
I was just shitting on the guy who was saying he didn't care about the poems prose despite it being in verse. I probably should have done it like this.
>poem
>prose

>>13970581

Nothing is original. No one is unique. Everything to say has already been said before.

Your job as a writer is to tell these universal stories in a way that can draw in a reader and keep them interested, and you do that with your own voice, which is unique.

>>13970581
Absolutely this >>13975730
Develop your voice. Don't worry about what you have to say being worthwhile anywhere near as much as how well you can say it.

>>13960416
The gentle breeze and midday sun roused me from slumber. I groaned and mumbled to myself "fucking Jannies" as I tried recalling what I had done yesterday while stumbling off the couch. The grass was a soft landing. It took a few moments, but the newly smashed grass scent enlivened my mind and I remembered. I had done the same thing as I had for the last four months. pretend I'm a worthwhile historian on /his/, That medieval history degree from UCLA had to mean something. A perfect day for sunning, or playing Frisbee, or going to the beach. It would have been a perfect day fora birthday party if I had anyone to call over. It was a perfect day and yet my birthday was ruined. The horror of two mile per hour winds meant PG&E and cut my city's power. My newly arrived self bought birthday present was ruined, full immersion tank vr set with 10 Tbytes of porn was useless until the power returned. All my NEETbucks spent for this, so many days of forgone tendies, for nothing. My dick was bleeding at the thought of how I'd beating it later today. All this blood lost from the weeks bleeding in anticipation, wasted. It'd start scabbing soon, if I didn't get my tank up, and rub it off myself.
"The pleasure will be worth the pain" I told myself looking at the my blood encrusted dick.
"I should probably put on some clothing before breakfast don't want the neighbors pissed again."

Part of a short story I'm writing , what do y'all think?

>>13973359
>You've never gotten critiqued there.
Indeed but I've browsed it and tons of similar sites, many for non-English writers too. (Btw, you meant critiquecircle, right?)

>people don't fuck around there and will point out every single mistake you make
The sort of stuff they usually do is something you can do yourself.
>"Didn't your character wore a skirt to hide their dique at the start?"
>"I'm confused which character sucked whose dick"
>"it's dick and not dique"
>"the juvenile humour is getting repetitive, you used dick twice in the last two sentences"
Might be of use for a total beginner or for someone rushing but critique more complex is almost impossible to get on such sites. Plus they generally try to find a positive spin due the silly "constructive criticism" mantra. Admittedly, decent critique is rare on /lit/ too but when you get to the diamonds, shit tends to be much more on point, since you get more about what the reader felt, even if it was suicidal boredom and internal cringing. Quantity isn't quality, anon. One sentence can give you more than dozens of line edits.

>>13960416
This would actually have me coming to /lit/ more often if there's a resource like this to at least keep me motivated just that little bit more to keep writing. I've been in a rut lately, so this would be a godsend.
Uh, I hope.

>>13960627
The Keys to the Kingdom series is one of my most enduring inspirations for writing, considering it was the work that got me into reading, and then writing, in the first place.

>wrote a short story
>thought it was the greatest shit ever written
>forgot about it an hour after I finished it

This is not good, is it?

>>13960997
Going for black would be the safer option, desu, but if you want to be daring and experimental go for white. It only becomes a problem if it's an integral part of the story.

>>13976131
Started off nice, then I got bored and wondered when the interesting part was going to start.
I'd recommend condensing the 1st paragraph a bit, but you'll want to get a second opinion before you do that. See what another retard thinks before you take this one's opinion.

For someone looking to write Thrillers, what should I keep in mind?

>>13976168
Not him. Other than those who are larping I'm trying to give honest and detailed critiques to those who want to show off their work. Naturally some are quite amateurish, although I'm not one to talk.
>>13974685
However something like this is genuinely good and I don't have much to add. Maybe someone more adept at poetry might. But I found it very interesting.

>>13976268
wait until you read it again in 3 months.