/lit/ - Literature

>>13896676
yeah, it's going to be looked at the same way as mallgoths and rawr xD scene kids except instead of invoking a gentle mix of cringe and nostalgia there will only be regret and the pain of dilation

No

The system is in conflict with masculinity, so I don’t think the fad is going to disappear anytime soon.

>>13896676
Yes, and no, I think.

>>13896691
There’s regret now, but this is more than the goth scene, unfortunately.

No. It is the rejection of the material conditions that create gender.

>>13896676
As we all know, the ultimate goal of the managerial liberalism globohomo leviathan is to reduce all of humanity to an homogenous herd of passive cattle with pink hair, a shapeless, raceless, genderless mass of consumers and conformists indoctrinated with banal liberal values of hedonism and self expression. It won't stop unless Fascists take action to stop it.

The thing I most hate about these people is how they present themselves as rebels and anti establishment when really they are nothing but bleating sanctimonious cattle, the definition of petty bourgeoisie philistines, like the worst of Christians, but at least christianity gave the masses a semblance of meaning. the just be yourself queer theory ideology can't even keep its constituents happy it is evident they are miserable.

>>13896676
Let me answer your question with another question: have you ever seen a transsexual older than 30?

God I hope so

>>13896676
Is that a boy?

https://quillette.com/2019/09/24/no-one-is-born-in-the-wrong-body/

>>13896796
they go for shallow signifiers of non conformity, like having funny coloured hair and getting fucked in the ass, but apart from that they are the most aggressively normal people out there, effectively functioning as a counter-counterculture, whose goal is to reduce everything to lowest common denominator sludge and empty therapeutic formulas.

>>13896738
It's a reduction of gender to material items and insistence that the social arbitrarily conform to it despite there being nothing to shape it. Resultingly, the social component of gender, or gender itself if you like, is unchanged. The need to conform and avoid punishment is just satisfied in the most vapid, outward way but otherwise not believed and ineffectual. Even when pushed by all media, government, and commercial enterprise it still barely exists in the collective social understanding that shapes our perception.

>>13896809
Yes, I've seen a couple dozen older than that and just one that was young.

>>13896836
Gender comes from division of labour. Without historical materialism, you're only left with silly idealist conceptions of gender that make no sense.

Weird conversations starting up in here. I'll just leave this here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome

>>13896854
>presuppose that gender can only be defined in the way that i set which can conveniently be discarded today
Fuck off. It's way older than your silly anti-intellectual hero vs villain tier worldview. Although it depends on what you mean by gender. I would say strict separation of gender from sex, as you understand them, is nonsensical and a requirement for your dogma.

>>13896863
https://medium.com/@alysonescalante/on-women-as-a-class-materialist-feminism-and-mass-struggle-42a228bde888

just like all subcultures, the lcd will be the loudest and ruin the whole thing. all past subcultures had an element of gayness but they created art and thats what mattered not their identity. now being gay is all about the identity politics meaning they lcd will always be typical corporate slaves.

>>13896676
I just feel deep pity for transexuals, they are obviously poorly socialised autists who were exposed to like really depraved internet porn from a young age/ were horribly molested/ absent or distant father, overbearing mother

>>13896900
what about the history of them before the internet?

>>13896730
>unfortunately
I thought you were an SJW. Wtf.

>>13896910
she's a TERF

I think it's just a symptom of our extremely anti-traditionalist society. the popular progressive ideology makes no considerations of the result of the "progress" they push for, only that it's as far away from traditional western values as possible. that means all that was previously sacred (sex, marriage, family, patriarchy) must be bastardized for the sake of "progress".

>>13896882
is that why modern leftists talk so much about 'sex work' and 'emotional labour'? if alll human relationships are monetized then wouldn't everyone just be bourgeoisie and proletarian at once, making revolution impossible?

>>13896910
I feel sorry for those that hate what they are so much.
And so you both hate me and attach your dumb labels on me.

>>13896948
Sex work is work, its just work that should be abolished through guaranteed jobs.

>>13896948
revolution is already impossible as technology rendered it moot

>>13896960
you feels sorry for trans? will you just state our views real quick in regards to this discussion instead of vague references

>>13896904
overbearing mothers have always existed, the psychoanalytic explanation for trans people before anime porn was a thing is that they are boys who identify with their mothers and fantasise about having sex with their fathers

>>13896919
There's no entertainment quite like different radical leftist factions eating each other alive. The TERF vs trans war is burning nicely at the moment.

>>13896676
Kigurumi is the most accelerationist there is

>>13896975
I, too, feel benevolently condescendent towards trans people, but I don't pity them. I just consider them as, bizarre creatures who are worth having around to gawk at a safe distance to see what crazy shit they will come up with next.

>>13896825
It is if you want it to be.

>>13896960
Same, that’s why i pity lesbiantarda

>>13897253
>that’s why i pity lesbia
But I love who I am.

>>13896676
No, it's simply the fruit of moral decay combined with the ethos of liberalism

astroturfed consumer trend 500000000%
if you've been convinced otherwise you're a fucking sap
every "trans kid" generates up to $270,000 in profit from prescription drugs alone

>>13896829
this article seems extremely important. this should be shared in many progressive circles.

I'm a marxist and this was actually sent to me by a /leftypol/ friend. I'm convinced that dysphoria is an invention and I appreciate this particular feminist speaker for talking about the profit motive. There's an insane amount of profit to be made from a transgender craze, essentially chaining people to the pharmaceutical industry for life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FQtyGU766I

>>13897316
they will ban you for thoughtcrime. remember when questioning the idea that gender stereotypes were innate and essential was a key feminist idea? not anymore.

>>13897299
thats not really that much money though

>>13897340
the issue is that it's quillete that's posting this article. certainly quilette is a website with a bias, an interest in destroying progressive causes. however, if you just read that article, it mostly is pulling its claims from journals than anything else, lending it some validity assuming that the methodologies of these studies are fair. and the article's authors are doctors in their fields. so even though this article is posted in quillete, it may well be a case of some truthful information being posted in a publication that wants to peddle a certain ideology.

>>13896676
Definitely not.

>>13896676
give it ~20 years, it'll sort itself out. the statistics don't lie.

>>13897364
Quillette is pretty broad in the variety of viewpoints they'll publish. They're certainly less biased in that sense that NYT

>>13896676
How the fuck do you know Eve? Don't go posting her (him) like this. Honestly stunned I recognize my friend's gf on /lit/. Adrian is the middle of nowhere incarnate and to think any of their twitter personalities register is beyond bizarre for me. Go Saints!

>>13896676
Yeah. Many of the people claiming to identify it will grow out of it, and many of those undergoing more drastic changes will kill themselves.

>>13896676
The Enlightement is a fad

>>13897743
And I'm not trying to be mean or flippant there, that is just how it will go.

I'm not exactly a conventional or stereotypical representation of my gender myself, and was sort of an early adopter in the implications of the theory out there. In my early 20s, I realized I wasn't a conventional male, and had within me the habit of sometimes hooking up with cute guys in addition to cute girls. I was aware of gender theory ideas, and for a while considered a possible correlation with the kind of androgyny common to the artistic person, and the artistic mode. I was also highly experimental and loose with my identity and kind of propelled myself into unstable, oscillating modalities of identity and sexuality.

What I found over time though is that I was right that I have a feminine side, and that this can come with an artistic disposition and the dynamics of creativity, but that the sort of over-wrought, pedantic obsession with minutae of labeling of gender theory, or over-eagerness to interpret a person in touch with masculine and feminine aspects as necessarily being 'transgender' or needing to excessively perform or identify in any way beyond what they already are and tend.

The neurotic listing of pronouns and childish role play bullshit and dressing up and needy 'please compliment/love me' appeals and stupid smug declarations of 'transitioning' and just general unstableness of it all is mostly just ugly or awkward or generally lost fucking dorks who need to chill the fuck out and step up rather than think they can just put on a fucking dress and be pretty and life will be beautiful. It's psychotic and stupid and a fucking lie.

>>13897765
Like, all those bald 50 year old journalist indie rock dweebs on twitter jumping on the bandwagon and transitioning something - no, you DON'T look good, no you are NOT powerful or fabulous. You're pathetic and lacking any direction of your own. And you're going to fuck your shit up so badly you'll be dead from suicide in a few years.

And fuck everyone encouraging them. You're not helping these idiots.

>>13897772
transitioning *suddenly

Also, the only reason all these insufferable middlebrow cunts on twitter are constantly telling ugly transitioning dudes that they look "BEAUTIFUL" is because they want to demonstrate how progressive and compassionate they are, while actually all feeding this hysterical acceleration towards inevitable mass tranny suicides that wouldn't have even have happened if all these weak-willed posers weren't convinced this is a viable life strategy.

The mixture and confusion of gender categories coincides with the general mixture and confusion of the culture. The general pattern subsuming both phenomena is a deterioration of clear lines, of stable boundaries. A destructuring of categories marks the ascendance of globalism and a uniform, commercialized culture, with a materialistic notion of individuality as its centerpiece. The enlightenment ideal of the rational individual questioning authority has been supplanted by the consumerist individual whose selfish needs outplay all other necessities.
The narcissism of gender politics ties directly into this tendency for the dissolution of traditional categories. The catch is, of course, that tradition has a track record, despite its warts and blemishes, while revolutions tend to slip up and collapse in their explosive pursuit of the new and untried.

>>13896676
It's not a fad, it's the future.
We are fucked, it will not stop.

>>13897811
Nah. You don't realize how much culture oscillates.

>>13897783
I should add that the term "reactionary" to describe far right responses to these so called revolutions is highly apt. The tautness, the rigid staunchness of ultra-conservative attitudes derives its tension from the resistance to its pattern of self-assertion. Conservatism is in large part a recapitulation of the past, and is there historicist fundamentally. It is a bet that the continuation of the past, with minor modifications, is better than flinging into the unknown without reflection.

We see therefore that the two corresponding nodes, far left and far right, always coincide. Because they provide the very stress that aggravates the other into action.

This then outlines the key challenge of all political tension: if conservatism is a holding pattern that seeks to sustain the past, but the past is lost and always in decay, and liberalism is the effort to "seek out" alternatives to the past, both are locked in eternal contradiction. The fundamental tension is temporal. To look to the conservative agenda and to see the horrors of the past, the ignorance, warfare, and needless tragedy, is to either equate such horrors with conservatism or to equate them to human nature. Meanwhile, the liberal agenda clings to an idealistic hope, an essentially trusting belief in human nature, an attitude that we can all work out our differences if we just embrace a certain mode of democracy and cultural tolerance.

In this struggle gender has been weaponized. Because it is not simply a personal preference. The personal inevitably gets lodged in the political once the the quantity of personal instances reaches a critical mass. Everything then becomes enfolded into this battle between the past and the future, between the bloody, bruised known and the shapeless, unfathomable unknown.

>>13896676
Dilate

>>13897830
brilliant post. i agree with this sentiment.

I guess they're going to be like emo or goth kids.

>>13896854
>Gender comes from division of labour.

>>13896854
Herpy derpy doo!

/leftypol/ refugee tourist faggots have made this board unusable

>>13896676
No, this is just the beginning of transhuman modding.

Or we have the collapse of industrial civilisation, one of the two.

>>13898186
>No, this is just the beginning of transhuman modding.
we don't live in a cyberpunk dystopia, we live in a cringepunk dystopia.

>>13898186
You greatly overestimate how many people are onboard with this bullshit. Most people aren't on the trans-train. And most will never have the money for body mods or anything, not that that is really anything so different from the plastic surgery etc we already have and it's hardly this mindblowing future, just pathetic rubber-y looking old rich fucks nobody thinks look good.

>>13898205
there's no reason to believe technological/medical development will stop here unless something happens to sto pit. of course it may take centuries, but short of collapse things will necessarily get weirder.

>>13898223
Sure things change and there's always new weirdness but there is never some pristine Future. Everything is just more stuff and will largely be tacky or mundane or beautiful or whatever but there's no TURN where whoa were aren't humans anymore and it's THE MATRIX or something.

>>13898230
Like people who are all "m8, it's the FUTURE, it's the blahblah REVOLUTION, it's the SINGULARITY" are tryhard dorks no better than those endless bug-eyed dudes who predict the world will end next year, every year.

>>13898234
And there will never be a time when most people abandon gender because most people are fucking dude-bros and princesses and that's all they want to be, no matter how many ugly academics scold them about it and inform them they're all going to be tranny robots in a few years.

>>13898230
oh, i didn't mean it in a positive way at all. if anything i look upon it in horror and hope the whole thing comes crashing down before humanity is empowered to create new horrors. when new possibilities open up some people will always run with it.

The contradictions must play themselves out at some point. We're already seeing how feminism is being pushed out by gender craziness and femininity is being made a joke of. The next culture war will be between the trannies and the genderfluids, as both hold contradictory positions on gender being inherent or not. I guess the genderfluids will realize how fucking insane the trannies are at some point.

>>13896691
im mean 40% of them won't be around to be nostalgic

>>13898289
Topkek. We will look back at this period of time as purely barbaric, instead of treating the dysphoria we instead decide to perform surgery on the patient, did we learn nothing from the medieval period? Don’t drill a hole into your head if you have a headache.

>>13896676
Yes, and the gender sciences will be regarded by our grandchildren like how we regard phrenology and lobotomies.

>>13898223

Man i thought cyberpunk was gonna be augmentations and shootouts in chinese fast food places

All we got was 3D printers,mass corporate surveilance and trannies

>>13896676
Not really. If anything, I feel it's the natural consequence of digitisation. More and more human interaction is taking place online, and online your gender means nothing in most contexts. Gender has always been a social construct, so if you apply gender to a setting where gender can't be proven on top of there not being a unified culture, then the concept of gender largely collapses

The only way in which gender remains relevant is arguably because of incels. That's not an insult, but rather an observation that incels cannot exist unless a distinction between genders is identified, due to the fact that many of them emphasise gender in their dialogue to an extreme degree.

>>13897333
>>13897299
It's an astroturfed consumer trend by the dairy industry rather than the pharmaceutical, to get retards to stop buying onions milk. Wait till you hear about the rest of the healthcare industry, they invented air pollution to make money from treating lung cancer.

>>13897765
>>13897772
As a somewhat feminine male who's had to confront similar questions about their gender identity, thanks for posting this. It's a comfort to know someone like me is equally sceptical about the whole trans revolution for the same reasons, despite being the kind of person this movement wants to target.

Out of curiosity, how did you reconcile your femininity without repressing it? I feel like that's the only piece of the puzzle I'm missing in order to live contently.

>>13896715
When Capitalism crash once and for all the circus will stop.

>>13896738
I am a materialist, but i think gender theory is bullshit. Genetics are materialistic conditions, and they determine the gender. In the primitive tribe, there was no transgenderism. It's not the material condition which create the gender, which is supposed to be something natural in a sane society, it's the current material condition, Capitalism, which creates transgenderism. You can make a lion jump into circles of fires, but it is not it's true nature to do so.

>>13898289
Based

>>13897333
Same here. Marx said Capitalism would factorize gay culture. And it's obvious that there is a potential market for all this alienated crap. Hormones, surgery, implants, etc.. Profit. It's time this shit mode of production falls down, in the decades to come.

>>13896829

Progressives dismiss quilette on sight

>>13897817
It oscillates in one direction.

>>13897333
It's really not made up. There are a half dozen neurological factors that are constantly correlated with (actual) GD. They all have to do with prenatal sensitivity or insensitivity to sex hormones. It's been proven independently, multiple times

Yes and we will have Nuremberg trials 2.0 for the doctors who did this to children

>>13898505
Didnt American natives have a concept of a faggy man who just wanted to do woman work and they kind of explained it away with spirits and let them do their thing?
I only read about this on Wikipedia, so if there are any anons who know more on this, pls contribute