/lit/ - Literature

Communism goes again human nature
/thread

>>13882541
Wow great debunk retard

That workers were capable of organizing an overthrow of capitalism all at once worldwide. He's also pretty harsh on my guy Hong Xiuquan.

>>13882541
Human nature isn't real.

>>13882536
He was wrong about communism working

>why yes I do believe that communist revolutions will arise in developed capitalist countries why do you ask?

NOOO WTF WHY IS IT ALL WARTORN SHITHOLES, THIS DOESN'T FIT MY THEORY STOP YOU IDIOTS, COMMUNISM WON'T WORK IF THE SOCIETY ISN'T ALREADY DEVELOPED ENOUGH YOU CAN'T JUST SKIP STAGES LIKE THAT NOOOO

>>13882541
The mind is demonstrably malleable

>>13882544
We have a winner. Jewish or not.

>>13882562
And capitalism doesn't work.

The labor theory of value

>>13882575
works for me

>>13882590
That doesn't mean it works. And get back to me after the crash

>>13882582
Demonstrate

Marx is a liberal. His whole thesis is a hegelian dialect of a liberal trying to be not a liberal, yet failing miserably.

>>13882602
The problem is he didn't apply the anti-thesis to his own ideas to reach a synthesis

>>13882582
St. Thomas Aquinas, David Ricardo, and Adam Smith also advocated labor theory of value, are they wrong too?

I'd bet that Keynes borrowed a great deal by Karl Marx.
And his theories have enriched nations across the world.
Especially China.

>>13882579
>personal property is private property

Will this meme ever end?

>>13882598
>And get back to me after the crash
>"It's coming any day now, just you wait!"

>>13882536
>communism isn't just capitalism with a different name
I hope you guys don't think this

The essence of civilizatory development isn't based on materialistic conceptions of production. Hegel was right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

>>13882706
Everyone is talking about the upcoming recession.
The corporations used the easy credit to do share buy backs instead of expanding the company or something along those lines they say.
Ofcourse all the brainwashed burgers will flock to Ron Paul and his cautionary tale about government intervention.
And if that doesn't work they'll flock to uncle Ted and go back to being cavemen.
Anything but socialism they say.

>>13882706
It comes in cycles. Wait, how old are you? We just had one. You’re under 16 aren’t you

>>13882742
>It comes in cycles
Yes, and it always remains "capitalistic" in nature.
Give up, tranny. Your only shot at a truly communist society will be with the full automation of production, and I doubt humanity will survive before or during the process unless we've already figured space travel by then.

>>13882536
Only the oppressed want communism. Middle and Upper class people value their places more because there are people they can look down on and they dont want poverty to really end.
Equality and "to each according to their need" is ultimately a anti-life feeling that again only the oppressed want to impose as some universal truth that solves all problems.

>>13882541
This, humans will always have feelings of envy, lust and will to more power. Even if you manage to have a "true" communist state its 100% sure it wont last long aswell. The moment you eradicate these instincts out of people society would also colapse.

Communist Utopia is impossible to achive

>>13882760
As a burning house remains a burning house as it burns.
>Give up communism
I’m not a communist, I’m an anti-capitalist.
Not only are you a liberal you are 16

>>13882764
>This
No. Already debunked here >>13882572

>>13882791
Have dilation.

>"labor decides value bro, capitalism wouldn't waste so much labor on digging a hole for no reason"
>"dictatorship of the proles bro, it's democracy decided by proles but it's actually dictatorship and proles dont decide anything because tthey are dum dum and bourg can trick them #UtopiansBTFOD"
>"history is not linear" still makes linear assumptions about it
>"the Internationale" is actually only Europeans and their puppets just like his eurocentric philosophy

>>13882796
>mind is malleable
So you want to brainwash people eh? Too bad if you brainwash them to not feel envy and need for power they also wont work for ya. They wont even live.

>>13882536
Labor theory of value does not work.
>>13882685
The distinction is so small as to be meaningless at all. Anything that is "personal" can become "private" under different circumstances.
>>13882791
>I’m an anti-capitalist
You know basing your identity on what you oppose is not the most constructive view of things?

>>13882536
Marxism

>>13882826
No, I want them raised in peace and freedom, not subjugation to a state elite of murderous sociopaths
>but they’d die like that
Fuck off, kid.

>>13882828
>Labor theory of value does not work.
Demonstrate
>the distinction
Is huge and important. Think about someday.

>>13882888
>No, I want them raised in peace and freedom, not subjugation to a state elite of murderous sociopaths
So what? People are raised like that and still have feelings of envy, lust and will to power and overcome others for the best self interest. The moment you castrate a person enough to not have those instincts he wont be fit for work.

>>13882828
Labor theory of value is the only scientific theory of value, subjective theories are essentially magical thinking
https://youtu.be/emnYMfjYh1Q

>>13882892
No, they haven’t. You haven’t thought this through because you’re a scared liberal cuck, so shut up and research it for a while.

>>13882912
Alright im gonna stop falling for this bait.

look at this video
https://youtu.be/PKnknpqLTwk
well anyways if you skip to 7:16
An economist talks about how inequality is hurting aggregate demand in the US and that is hurting the US as a whole as a result.

Nibba literally looks like a NEET

>>13882556
Authentic human features and structures which if opposed, lead to human failure. The physical body can be broken down, but artificially constructing one is extremely difficult. It's far easier to go through the human nature and impregnate / get impregnated.
Human mind has structures that, if opposed or broken, can lead to death or various states we refer to as mental illnesses.
Likewise, we have a spiritual structure as well, which behaves in this sense in a similar way. Things like determinism, hopelessness, jews - they are all malware to our organic software.

>>13882685
Habits are formed. Not merely by vacuum packed ideology lootboxes, but through the human instinctive and impulsive nature.

For communism to work, human consciousness and choices must be made redundant. It does not end there, but our instincts and subconscious behaviors must be state-mandated for it to work.

>>13882888
>Demonstrate
>https://www.britannica.com/topic/marginal-utility
>The economists observed that the value of diamonds was far greater than that of bread, even though bread, being essential to the continuation of life, had far greater utility than did diamonds, which were merely ornaments. This problem, known as the paradox of value, was solved by the application of the concept of marginal utility. Because diamonds are scarce and the demand for them was great, the possession of additional units was a high priority.
here you go.
>Is huge and important. Think about someday.
Its really not. For example lets say I have an artist friend and he gives me a painting as a birthday gift. It has great subjective value however I can also use it as "private" property because I could put it up in an art gallery and make money off of it.

I think that many people can agree that corporations have gotten too big.
So we have to pick among a different set options.
1.break up big corporations like alphabet, amazon, banks,etc...
2.nationalize the corporations. Something which Hitler did btw and communist China has as well. They can still be for profit. This would be the ultimate form of nationalism.
3.Hand over the corporations to the workers.
They all require massive state intervention.
Would option 3 work?
I don't know.
But if it did work it'd pay off big time.
We the people would put the corporations under our control and run them for the goals of society as a whole as opposed to the few.
Under option 3 workers that run the corporations would still be able to profit.
No need to change human nature.
And that's part of the socialist alternative platform which was thought up by many experts across many countries so I wouldn't be as arrogant as to think I could come up with a better alternative.
Anyways the focus is on the corporations not the mom and pop store (which got cucked by amazon and walmart anyways so who cares)

>>13882973
>Nibba
I agree and all but still, why would you use that word?
>>13882899
Thanks for posting that but the video is far too big for me to view and respond to before the thread is archived. Ill give it a look anyway.
>>13882630
China is not a good example because the modern China we know and "love" became rich in large part to Dan Xiaopins economic reforms. Not to mention the fact that its not "real" Marxism.

>>13883103
Keynesianism isn’t real Marxism, right?

>>13882575
>goes to McDonald's
>tells them “capitalism doesn’t work”
>”now give me free food”
>they tell you to fuck off

>>13883088
There is another way. Since the state is chiefly responsible for the existence of "too big to fail" corporations and banks we could cut back on the subsidies and bailouts dealt out by the government to these entities. As well as seriously cut back the IP laws that act as corporate censorship.
>>13883138
I merely pointed out that China isn't a good example of Marxism/Keynesianism at work.
>>13882575
May I ask what conditions would capitalism have to fulfill to "work"?

>>13882575
If you mean being the best system in practice means it doesn't work, then nobody knows what "works", as history has proven.

>>13883149
Not how it works, Bubba.
More like, “$15/hr is chicken feed to the top brass at McDonalds. Strike with the rest of your class for the whole thing”

>>13883180
But it is a good example of a “communist”party employing the capitalist tactics of Keynes, which is what that anon did.
>not real communism
Right?

>>13883205
>poverty, wars without end, ever degrading culture, continual systemic crashes and now it leaves the US for China the same way it left the UK for the US
>It’s the bestest
Liberal cuck

>>13883247
Are you retarded?

Like unironically retarded?

Jesus fuck.

>>13882541
Communism is human nature. Otherwise no one would care for it.

>>13883247
>But it is a good example of a “communist”party employing the capitalist tactics of Keynes, which is what that anon did.
But they are not "real" Marxists are they? And a large part of their success is manipulating currency to keep the population poor so they can have cheap labor to sell to the rest of the world. In the end you have to question the success of Marxism if the best example of a communist party succeeds by being less Marxist.
>poverty
existed before capitalism and exists in many countries deemed socialist.
>wars without end
We are living in relatively peaceful time so much so that the possibility of Trump starting a war with Iran has everyone on edge. At the very least war isn't a part of our daily lives the way it once was.
>continual systemic crashes
Caused by irresponsible policies enacted by the government. Same as wars but the real question is why do you frame these things as problems of capitalism? When the example of "successful" Keynesianism/Marxism that is modern China has had its own stock market crash as recently as the year 2015?

>>13883370
based and logicpilled

>>13883370
>But they are not "real" Marxists are they?
I already agreed to this! I’ve been made fun of for pointing out that they aren’t really practicing communism. Geez
>[poverty] existed before capitalism
Don’t lecture me about the history of money and statism
>We are living in relatively peaceful time
The US is waging war on eight or nine wars right now and the State Department want to charge right into two more. Are you fucking serious?
>Caused by irresponsible policies enacted by the government. Same as wars but the real question is why do you frame these things as problems of capitalism?
They enact these policies for them, through bribery. This IS capitalism working the way it does. There’s no policies that will change it for more than a few years
>China has had its own stock market cras
Because they’re practicing capitalism, state centralized capitalism, but they know all about crashes and are still ascending. The transition doesn’t look like it will be as smooth as the US/UK one, but who knows.

>>13883430
Thanks brah.

>>13883430
Broke and toady pilled

>>13882544
>>13882572
No it doesn't you dumb fucks. Marx literally btfos Bakunin when he brings this up in their debate.

>>13883473
Where’s the proof of this?

>>13883247
Capitalism doesn't work but communists have no idea how their actual society functions lol "We'll figure it out when the revolution starts"

>>13882536
Labour theory of value

>>13882536
communism could work, but for now welfare capitalism is the peak of human civilization
prove me wrong
pro top: you can't

>>13883478
Bakunin writes, “If there is a state, then there is domination and consequent slavery. A state without slavery, open or camouflaged, is inconceivable-that is why we are enemies of the state. What does it mean, ‘the proletariat raised to a governing class?’”26 Marx responds, “It means that the proletariat, instead of fighting in individual instances against the economically privileged classes, has gained sufficient strength and organisation to use general means of coercion in its struggle against them; but it can only make use of such economic means as abolish its own character as wage labourer and hence as a class; when its victory is complete, its rule too is therefore at an end, since its class character will have disappeared.”27 The claim that through revolution the proletariat will be “raised to a governing class” thus has nothing to do with creating a dictatorship of a political sect, but is rather a claim that the proletariat will use “general means of coercion” to undercut the bourgeoisie’s power (by abolishing the private ownership of the means of production, disbanding the standing army, and so forth). It is the entire proletariat that is to exercise this power. Bakunin asks, “Will all 40 million [German workers] be members of the government?”28 Marx responds, “Certainly! For the system starts with the self-government of the communities.

>>13882579
Frank Zappa

Frank Fucking

Zappa

Who thought these niggers made the best music ever
https://youtu.be/jQqK1CjE9bA

>>13882544
hur dur banks bad small business good if you disagree ur a jew

>>13882623
Where?

>>13883448
>They enact these policies for them, through bribery. This IS capitalism working the way it does. There’s no policies that will change it for more than a few years
You could abolish the state or at least scale down the government enough that it can't cause too much harm.
>Don’t lecture me about the history of money and statism
Why not? The arguments you made suggest these problems are endemic of capitalism when they are common in systems other than capitalism.
>The US is waging war on eight or nine wars right now and the State Department want to charge right into two more. Are you fucking serious?
Predominantly proxy/hybrid warfare. War is not a part of our lives as much as it was a century or two ago. The tensions that lead to war are present but a "hot" war is still ahead of us. Not like any of this matters because communism/Marxism offers no real solution to war simply assuming that war will be a thing of the past as soon as the class conflict is resolved (through waging war on the capitalist pigs obviously)
>>13883452
>he still thinks I'm a neolib
Silly leftist this isn't even my final form.

>>13883480
Reminder: I’m not a communist.

>>13883494
>It means that the proletariat, instead of fighting in individual instances against the economically privileged classes, has gained sufficient strength and organisation to use general means of coercion in its struggle against them; but it can only make use of such economic means as abolish its own character as wage labourer and hence as a class
Nice. Too bad tankies slaughter them whenever they try to do this. This is what anarchists want. Bakunin’s counter fell flat. Yes of course all of them. That’s anarchism. but Marx successfully tore the socialists out of the First International.
>the proletariat will use “general means of coercion” to undercut the bourgeoisie’s power (by abolishing the private ownership of the means of production, disbanding the standing army, and so forth).
Especially interested in Cockshott’s direction. Communities can start to employ this on an app for crying out loud.

Hey, thanks for the post. Fuck Lenin.

>>13882536
Opium.

>>13883578
>You could abolish the state
You an anarchist now?
>Predominantly proxy/hybrid warfare.
>as long as bombs don’t drop in my bed, I’m fine the the way things are
Stop it.

>>13883247
The UK is capitalist, lmao.

>>13883598
I didn’t say they weren’t

>>13883586
>>13883583
>>13883578
>>13883536
>>13883529
>>13883516
>>13883494
>>13883490
>>13883481
>>13883480
>>13883478
>>13883473
>>13883452
>>13883451
>>13883448
>>13883430
>>13883370
>>13883270
Communism only works on a very small scale, it's not meant to be used globally. nor countrywide. Once it grows too large. there is no cohesion. no union.
Humans are a pack animal. yes. but we have ALWAYS formed tribes bound by culture. We are also territorial by nature (more specifically. males).

Everybody is required to work. or the system crumbles. You have no other choice than to work because otherwise. anyone (reads. everyone) could choose not to and still reap the benefits of living in a communist nation, where the populace is entitled to just about everything (essential goods).

Why do people work? Necessity (food) or for the benefit of the community.

Benefit of the community requires you to: (1.) like the community. be close to the community.
Would only work in small communities (high cohesion). Large communities get rid of point 1.. due to the impossibility that is to relate to a large number of people. and strangers. especially due to how multicultural most countries have become (culture clash: high population number: tribal nature).

Necessity is a moot point. because in communism essential goods are covered by default.

Thus. in order for communism to work: work CANNOT be mandatory

In which case, society crumbles. unless Work is not *required*, meaning that Al have already replaced most jobs. rendering work obsolete.

Then we are left with a distribution problem: high achievers are left with nothing to strive for other than scientific progress—most humans are materialistic by default—so how does one go about imposing limits?

>>13883591
I am and have been a n ancap (anarcho capitalist/market anarchist) for a long time
>as long as bombs don’t drop in my bed, I’m fine the the way things are
Well yeah people not dying is a good thing under most definitions. Peace is a precious thing even as it is fragile.

>>13883613
>high achievers are left with nothing to strive for other than scientific progress
Social status? Lot of material wealth are status symbols anyway.

>>13883583
Having the government give the workers the means of production is roughly the same as the workers seizing the means of production themselves.
The government is not bad perse, it is a tool.
And its specially useful at ensuring the country doesn't get invaded.
>and possibly being used to liberate other countries
>>13883613
>unless Work is not *required*, meaning that Al have already replaced most jobs. rendering work obsolete.
Well we still a few decades(or maybe a couple) away before robots take over.
It'll happen in our lifetimes for sure though.

>>13883615
Capitalism of any kind requires a state of some kind to protect its property laws.
Anarchism is about the abolition of laws, you dash a little laws, contracts, you need a lawyer and a bunch of cops/military to defend your over bloating claims.
Make the leap from feudalism 2.0 to anarchism sometime.

>>13882824
The idea that labor is the source of value goes back to William Petty in the 1600s, and Locke stated that the origin of private property is labor. The whole point Marx’s critique of political economy is to reveal bourgeois society coming into contradiction, the tradition of economics following Ricardo and Mill end up glossing over. The whole point of the correspondence of quantities of labor contained within exchange is how markets and the division of labor facilitate the growth of the productivity of labor, which for Adam Smith did not merely just mean more efficient exploitation, but of perfecting the capacities of humanity both in individual ability and in society’s wealth. Industrialization, where machinery becomes a form of capital, ensured that the growth of the wealth of society comes into contradiction with the interests of the very workers that Smith thought were given freedom through modern commerce.

Also, the early socialist movement had internalized the kind of bourgeois ideology that had already become contradictory, but in a way that did not recognize that contradiction, so that in 1848 the radical intelligentsia sided with absolutism and aimed their guns against an insurgent working class. Marx firmly believed that the bourgeois character of radicalism had to be superseded by the power of the proletariat, which is not the same as placing the intellectuals above the workers nor is it dismissing the need for a radical intelligentsia.

Historical consciousness is oriented in Marx to understand the contradictions that underpin our present society, for ends of the overcoming of those very contradictions through their unfolding in social practice.Marx outright states that, outside of his own moment, Communism is not based on the abolition of private property. In the Communist Manifesto, Marx states that Communism is only reducible to the principle of the abolition of private property “in this sense”, after giving a historical genesis of property, as the self-recognition of the attempt overcome society in contradiction.

Commercial society, which brought forth a cosmopolitan world order under the banner of humanity, emerges from Europe and the British colonial project. Even asserting the inequality in the treatment of subjugated peoples presumes the legacy of the Enlightenment and the Revolt of the Third Estate, in the fight for bourgeois right, to be treated as fellow human beings within a cosmopolitan world-order. Rejecting this tradition means condemning the periphery to backwardness and slavery. What colonized people want is not a return to a pre-colonial past, but integration into the post-colonial world in their own terms - which by itself is insufficient without a movement for liberation of all of the oppressed. This is a bourgeois framework, but it is necessary in that the overcoming of bourgeois ideology comes from within itself (ie from the socialist movement).

>>13882536
Art
Religion
Philosophy

>>13883649
Bring that tool right into the people’s living rooms.
>invaded.
Invade it with the idea that it’s time. Time to drop the boarders as well.

>>13883687
You are a retard that barely understands Marx.

>>13883671
Wrong

>>13883687
let me clarify
There's a difference between the government taking over a business and handing it to the workers.
For example google.
The government would give google to the programmers, they in turn can run it and profit and in exchange they'd also be taxed.
Under regular communism the government takes control of google and that's the end of that.

>>13883583
Lenin was the greatest revolutionary of the 20th century, who attempted to inaugurate a new epoch of freedom on Earth.

Rejecting Lenin means rejecting the struggle for freedom in all of its contradictions, condemning all the sacrifices humanity suffered. A critique of Lenin and his legacy cannot merely dismiss him, but to overcome him, so that the suffering of mankind can be redeemed in the freedom of the future.

>>13883704
Under communism, there will be no state but only society.

>>13883583
>Reminder: I’m not a communist.
Same thing with socialism. The only thing that has an actual plan is Market Socialism but it's basically capitalism.

>>13883613
>Communism only works on a very small scale
Not even that.

>>13883704
That sounds nice and all, but I don’t see a political revolution happening. A social revolution, where the workers, and a sizable portion of the military along with them, just decide its time to take over.
Long shot, I know, but up until then we have to offer up the working alternative, such as Cockshott’s

>>13883748
There's a party called the socialist alternative party that advocates just that.
It has 1000 members.
There's like a 99% chance its not going anywhere.
But you never know there might come a crisis that's so bad that no amount of liberal reform can fix it in the future and people are left with no alternative but... socialist alternative.
>>13883728
Once a corporation is turned into a worker owned enterprise it can no longer fund itself via private investors.

>>13883771

>>13883613
Tribal communities prior to the development of civilization lived in communities without a state standing above them. Even under traditional agrarian civilization, the estate of the serfs lived in common and apart from the other estates, so that the community of this estate lived in an organic unity, where the distance between estates and not within the estate that oppositions occur. It’s only under modernity does society and the state, and not between estates that exist apart from each other, come into contradiction as apparently expressing the will of society while nonetheless standing above society in opposition to it.

What Communism, following the bourgeois radicals, attempts to do is resolve the opposition of society and the state, in favor of society for itself (democracy, socialism), which is an opposition that has not always existed.

>>13883733
Then how do primitive tribes work?

>>13883819
There's a major difference between "pure" tribal groups and civilizations-turned-tribal.

i don't give a shit about today's internet political guilds so i am going to talk about the book.
kapital is really fucking boring and long. it's like simplifying a complex work of literature but without removing any detail so you end up with a work much longer than the former but way more boring.
maybe it's just me because i am not interested in economics but rather in sociology and philosophy

>>13883817
It should also be noted that with the emergence of modern class divisions, the public interest, which is supposed to come about through the mediation of social conflict resolved as civil conflict by the state rendering the democratic community a civil society, instead is the expression of a private interest. Instead of the universal interest of society, its only just a mass of particular interests in opposition to society; only resolvable through dictatorship.

All that Communism is, is a perfected democracy. The problem is that, wage-labor, private property, dictatorship, and capital, are the self-undermining basis of modern bourgeois democracy, and deserved to be critiqued for democracy to be realized.

>>13883666
>Capitalism of any kind requires a state of some kind to protect its property laws.
No it does not. You could have private property without a state as long as the society values non coercion. The functions performed by the state could be served by private entities instead. See:
>https://www.lewrockwell.com/2002/06/roderick-t-long/the-vikings-were-libertarians/
>https://mises.org/library/medieval-iceland-and-absence-government
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZJuaxKPaME

>>13883887
>The functions performed by the state could be served by private entities instead
Hence a reestablished feudalism. A state is reborn under another name. Blade Runner’s world in fact. We are trying to go forward though, not backwards

>>13883872
Economics as a discipline emerges from a political shift away from the organization of society to the administration over society, as the contradictions of bourgeois society are subsumed and obscured under the authoritarian state. Modern Sociology and Philosophy follows suit, becoming tepid in their positivist abstractness. Marx was not an economist (though he was a critic of political economy), nor a philosopher, nor a sociologist, and would be disgusted at being called the latter two.

>>13883887
Medieval society did not have a modern form of state and prerequisite economic relations for property as we understand it today to make sense. Princely estates, where there exist no real division between the economic and the political, do not make sense to refer to them as private or public property. You might as well call all property in medieval conditions as public property, as much as private property; given the organic unity of the estate.

>>13882536
Didn't he predict that there will be some proletariat revolution one day and it never happened?

>>13883946
>A state is reborn under another name
Funny you should say this because this is exactly what I think about anarchists using coercion as the means of their "redistribution" except your violence is "legitimate" (which is what the government thinks as well)
>Blade Runner’s world
You mean the world where a corporation has government mandated monopoly on androids with government mandated artificial life spans?
I don't think so.
>We are trying to go forward though, not backwards
The future holds many surprises for you my misguided friend.
>>13883947
Be it as it may this example shows that a system like this might be feasible. More modern examples of private entities taking on roles typically thought of as belonging to the government exist as well (Such as Detroit threat management)
>>13883613
I don't argue with communism because its communism. I argue because its wrong. But if someone chooses to live in a community of like minded individuals in a commune somewhere I don't really have a problem with that.

>>13884007
There were many such revolutions. Not to mentioned capitalism nor history haven´t ended yet.

Bruh I can now apply to McDonalds with an Alexa. How could you not love capitialism!

>>13884048
Well, sure, not everything is done by the state, and the goal should be everything is done by society, but we only understand the social as private because of the state. Saying everything should be done privately does not make sense without a public power that ensures that there exists a private sphere apart from itself.

Europeans/East Asians have evolved *toward* class rule/private property FOR A REASON(s); they’re biological software, essentially. They’re *features*.

Communism thus is literally anti natural and anti civilizational when applied to these populations, go live with Bushmen or Pirahan Islanders if you want communism. We’ve evolved past it.

Also God is real and Jews have been at war with Him and His created hierarchies since they killed Christ, peace.

>>13882556
t. Blank slate retard. Look at any personality trait report not done by MBTI hacks and you'll see there is such a thing.

>>13884091
>Europeans/East Asians have evolved *toward* class rule/private property FOR A REASON
Wow, that´s what Marx said.

>>13884075
>Saying everything should be done privately does not make sense without a public power that ensures that there exists a private sphere apart from itself.
Good point. Perhaps a better distinction would be voluntary vs involuntary relations? Since more often than not "public" just means what is owned by the state and "private" is whatever the government feels like letting you have at the moment?

>>13883771
>private investors.
Why not? Private investors aren't the only way to fund a business anyways.

I've never read Cockshott but how does it account for all the things humans do that a computer can't account for?

>>13882541
>I gotta get first post so my bros will say fpbp and I'll get my dopamine hit, I don't have time to spell check!

>>13882536
Reminder that if you are a commie or a capitalist cuck you don't belong here and you most probably are a newfag if you think otherwise.

Marxism is rendered completely obsolete on an individual level by actual sciences like evolutionary biology and neurology. On a macro level there are way more intelligent economists and “historical materialists” to read (eg. Schumpeter, whose like Marx but actually intelligent).

Marxism really is religion but restated using proto-hard science, the territory it used to cover has been completely eaten away.

>>13884101
I suppose, since everything under a functioning civil society should be based on voluntary association, and not on the arbitrary power of government. The problem is that this distinction, between society and the state, originates not from the form of state but from the organization of society, which is why you also have analogous oppositions within society such as: the individual versus the social, the voluntary versus the involuntary, the private versus the public - which are ultimately expressed politically through the state but do not emerge from the state itself.

The problem with the way in which neoliberal libertarians reify the market, emphasizing economic relations in abstraction, so that the social forms that mediate them are assumed without being addressed, meaning that they cannot be seen in any other terms than that of our fetishized relationship to the state. Which, by the way, does not mean its in the terms of our relationship to politics, because the administration of public policy is not the same as the political organization of society. The voluntary-involuntary distinction here does something analogous to the categories of neoclassical economics; it hypostasizes a social category so that its social character isn’t really clarified, so a politics of freedom within and beyond society doesn’t really become possible.

The point that Adam Smith makes, in relation to the LTV, is that modern commercial society’s division of labor ,facilitated through the market, would increase the productivity of labor, and by implication lead to greater freedom in the individual as economic investment lead to the continual perfection of the abilities of the individual laborers. Instead, for Marx, industrialization also rendered machinery a form of capital (Adam Smith thought only in terms of wage-labor as becoming a form of capital, not machinery), that when invested into would increase the productivity of labor, but did not lead to the perfectibility of the individual but instead destroyed the artisanal class that served as the social foundation for the bourgeois republic. The neoliberal obsession of the freedom of the individual through voluntary association within the market, forgets that the beginning and ends of markets is production, and that the freedom of the individual found within bourgeois production comes into crisis with industrial capitalism.

>>13882685
No because It's not a fucking meme

>>13884546
Explain your retardation

>>13882536
Tbh it seems he was wrong about the identity of the proletariat. I think the proletariat may be a forced construct, not something that really exists. To unite people by the fact they labor is like trying to unite them by the fact they dream.

>>13884526
Interesting post, what would the solution to this problem be? What reading would you recommend to understand this issue? And can you bring a practical example of it?

>>13884553
It's a memer his post needs no explanation.

>>13884553
Why do you use the r-word?