/lit/ - Literature

First for self published is the future.

I play hard but am actually a softie, here's a download for you idiots that can't into piracy: https://mega.nz/#!BnZ3QKaT!WWYTrgXIR2OCp8rHTs7F1N39jDJYaOS1PrWIBsUjaQE

Sword & Sorcery is Based and Crompilled.

>>13826797
Forth for based opinion but terrible chart.

Also litrpg a shit

>>13825949
I loved these books (though Dark Age probably the least of all) and I can sympathise with your plight. A quick read of the Good Reads reviews will tell you everything you need to know about the types of people we must unfortunately share an interest with. Safest practice, as always, is to ignore what the normies say because they have shit taste and zero insight. Hail, Libertas.

>>13826822
Unironically who reads Litrpgs? I got 5 pages into the first Litrpg I've ever read before I realised what the genre was and what a mistake I'd made.

7th for Cooming is immoral and degenerative, and thus any fantasy/sci fi erotica needs to be banned.

I see China has already implemented this great leap forward.

>>13826836
Actually a lot of people. I don't know what's wrong with them to subject themselves to this shit. The genre is so bad it actually poisoned the whole of self-published titles.
>find a title that looks cool
>start reading it
>it's litrpg
>try again
It's at such a level now that before reading it I scroll through the amazon preview to make sure there are no level tables so I don't waste my time.

The other one is still up though. On page 4.

>>13826841
cringe and bluepilled

>>13826847
Nobody posts on it though because it won't be up for long enough for your post to be read by a relevant poster to have time to answer you. So even if you post about an interesting book, chances are the thread will die before anyone who has read it to post back.

>>13826847
Are you new to 4chan? Autosage threads are dead.
>>13826845
I almost feel like it's some kind of hidden obsession with video games and "meta" references. Maybe people feel like they're reading something more avante garde or smarter because it's post-dungeon crawler literature or some shit. I honestly do not know. Surely it can't be for the writing.

>>13826851
>catering to fast board culture
Faggot enabling that leads to degradation.

>>13826863
I've been on 4chan since 2009 and catering to the fast board culture is beyond retarded. It's mean to be a slow board so multiple generals of the same thing when it's nowhere near archiving yet is stupid.

>>13826872
meant*

...obviously....

There's no reason to have a general if you have two of them for obvious reasons.

>>13822777
>We don't know the fate of the universe, only the Milky Way
well actually it's pretty clear that the shadows were chased way outside of their home galaxy and that the greenfly has consumed many galaxies so far. furthermore it's heavily implied that the shadows were originally human/are humanity from the future.
so if you ask me, it's pretty clear cut.

>>13826872
And yet the speed of the board also means you often ask a question and come back later in the day/the next morning to a reply. Again, no-one wants to participate where they may not return to an active thread.

>>13826863
People who read that kind of shit just can't read anything if they can't insert themselves as the main character. And it's easier to do that if the person is someone who lived like us, thus isekai, VRMMO and reincarnation novels. The game elements I am 90% certain it's as you said, an obsession about games and pop-culture references. It's a cheap device to make character progression without really having to do anything (you killed monster, you are now level 2), while making the character connect to the reader ("lol this is just like [pop-culture thing] back in my world").

>>13826884
>>no one was going to make it!
>up for two days
>still up on page four
>>I GOD OH SHIT I CAN'T TAKE IT IT'S NO ON PAGE ONE *foaming out he mouth*
>makes new thread

To be honest I'd not have been asshurt over it if this board was two things, actually slow and not full of spam.

That and the OP got my attention with the insinuation that no one was going to make it, of which, yeah fucking right. Egotism made him make it. He NEEDED to be the one to make the new one. Such a sheep. So self absorbed that you need to get the (You) faster or not at all.

>>13826851

Jew and bluepilled.
Guess I know what youll be doing tonight.

>>13826916
Actually I just wanted a thread to discuss that wasn't gone by tomorrow. Nice projection though, sounds like your 1st year psychology classes are really leaving an impression.

>>13826797
>>13826822
What are some books about magic or cultivation that are not litrpg trash? I've been looking for one I haven't read yet but no luck. The magic books are usually terrible from a plot perspective, usually targeting the YA-crowd or lower, and the cultivation novels are usually litrpg trash that are basically unreadable (cradle being the exception).

>>13826925
Yet I'm 30.

>>13826811
You actually posted on time this time.
I guess those wild mushrooms got you alert.

>>13826936
Beyond Redemption
The Heresy Within
Winter’s Reach

>>13826936
Reverend insanity is the most sffg favored chinkshit i think, mostly because of its edge and the translation being pretty readable. Warlock of the magic world is both magic and cultivation and is pretty based in my opinion although a couple of the later arcs are kind of shit.

>>13827043
Thanks, I'll look into those. I'll start with beyond redemption. Is heresy within grimderp, though?

>>13827044
I guess I'll just wait for uncrowned then.

>>13827085
its too bad most western authors dont write fantasy where the main character just focuses on cultivating/training instead of overdone journeys to mordor or defeating evil kings or whatever. I enjoy chinkshit but I would enjoy it more if it was written by someone who could speak english and also wasnt a souless bug man

>>13827111
The appeal of chinkshit for me is the rebelling against the system by becoming stronger than them and using the might makes right principle and avoiding the medieval european setting.

I don't really care for "I spent 10 years circulating my qi every day" in details. I honestly think that it makes them emptier. Another thing I don't like from bugmen written books is the thin plot, usually based solely around revenge. The characters are also usually quite bad, falling in one of several categories: the MC (that was bullied and then starts circulating qi to become stronger), the bully (that dislikes the MC specifically for no reason), the master that willl teach the MC (unless it's a cheat novel), some others equally one-dimensional.

>>13827160
I like the total absence of contemporary liberalist thought in xianxia

>>13826783
Wtf is this image?
Do we still have zyzz and scooby worshippers from the /fitlit/ debacle? ... Did the gym jockeys evolve and learn literature? I don't know how I feel about this.

>>13827160
I mostly agree with you, one thing i love about chinese insectpeople is that they can just have a main character who wants to be immortal and is willing to do anything to achieve that with no meme morals like "if i kill my enemy, he wins" or some other shit thats in western books. Immortality is a chad motivation, revenge and shit is generic and boring.

>>13826819
You hitting the gym fatso?

>>13827175
>Immortality is a chad motivation, revenge and shit is generic and boring.
I can't believe the spazes I share this general with.

>>13827044
>is the most sffg favored chinkshit
>sffg favored
>sffg
I don't think 3 persons (I'm sure it's two though) can speak for the entire general.

>>13826936
The Dao of Magic. Preddy gud

>>13827085
Only the edgelord bandit chapters get grimderpy, really.

>>13827170
This is a huge plus, and it's something western authors usually get wrong. They just can't separate their own mindset from the fantasy world's they are building.
>freedom
>equality
>feminism
>in ancient china

>>13827175
>if i kill my enemy, he wins
Just kill me now. Why do people do this? To be fair, it's usually present in YA. I like other motivations rather than immortality. It's why I liked cradle. Despite being humiliated for most of his life, Lindon's motivation was just to save his family and he would have been plenty happy to stay mediocre if the monster wasn't going to destroy everything in some decades.

>>13826872
>>13826847
It used to be a slow board, but we have pol trying to cultivate a foothold on our board, and /his/fags not staying in their fucking board to thank for the board to be moving fast. That thread is already on page 7.

>>13827217
>The Dao of Magic. Preddy gud
I was reading that just yesterday. The first person present tense, the reincarnation plot, and the apparent obsession of the author to explain in minute details the magic system (he used this exact wording) threw me off. I honestly don't see this novel escaping the usual pitfalls of the genre.

One that was almost not bad was Path of the Thunderbird. If not for the retarded pacifist main character and the reincarnation plot-line at the end, it could have been a good asian themed novel. Seriously, who the fuck thought an asian action novel would be good with a fucking pussy pacifist?

>>13827228
>Why do people do this?
Maybe they are Canadians?

>>13827214
>hiding the herpes you got from sucking dick and having them cum on your face with makeup
>fake tits
>hungry skeletal
>poster probably got this from being her patreon god tier member

>>13827277
Anon are you from /cgl perhaps?
You sound like one of them harpies. That or a tranny?

>>13827214
>>13827287
Based tiddy poster. Post a book you liked.

>>13827289
Future Weapons of War, an anthology curated by Joe Haldeman (of the Forever War fame).
Baen as usual shat the bed with the cover but the anthology goes from fun to excellent.

Are the wheel of time books worth getting into?

>>13827299
I don't like short-stories. I have too much time on my hands to enjoy them.

>>13827300
The consensus seems to be "no!"

>>13827289
>>13827299
And here's the cover.

>>13827300
No. But you will still read them, so fuck off.

>>13827305
>I have too much time on my hands to enjoy them
Being a NEET is hard.

>>13827315
Not even a NEET. I go to college to avoid the label (on a technicality). Pretty sure pic-related is what my future holds once I graduate.

>>13827327
>I go to college to avoid the label (on a technicality).
I admire your hustle.

>Pretty sure pic-related is what my future holds once I graduate.
You just need to find a nice girl.

>>13827332
>You just need to find a nice girl.
And rape her so the government can give me free housing and food, right? I doubt they'll give me internet access though, so necking myself after failing to keep an office job is still my best option. Thanks for the idea, though.

>>13827354
>And rape her so the government can give me free housing and food, right?
No she will cure all your ills through the power of pussy.

>>13827378
Anon, I think you are reading too many books. It's starting to blurry the lines between reality and fantasy.

>>13827395
Nigga I am telling you, it'\s gonna help you stop being a mopey shit.

>>13827423
Just push yourself into gf cannon, and launch yourself into gf land, where gfs grow on gfrees.

>>13827498
YES. That's exactly what I am talking about.
To paraphrase - you're in the hell of your own making so might as well push onward.

>thread created 3 hours ago
>60 replies
Must be the new and better sticky attracting smartfags

this is hella boring

>>13827423
Look, m8, no offense, but I don't really come to sffg for life advice, you know? Besides, I don't get why you would think I'm mopey just because I don't subscribe to your life philosophy. If you really wanna help, perhaps post some book recs.

>>13826811
>can't into piracy
Neither can you. That isn't the OP book, let alone the retail version. That's a collection some random guy made and named it that. Why didn't you use the actual one that I uploaded?

>>13827587
This is actually the 60th reply.
It goes quickly when it's a few people constantly replying to each other as seen by the poster/poster count ratio.

>>13827631
>perhaps post some book rec
Fine. Just pick up some multi volume fantasy doorstopper.

>>13826797
If self-published is the future then the future is a dystopia.

>>13827717
there is something profoundly wrong with those teeth.

>>13827739
It's like you've never seen a werebeaver.

>>13827724
Webnovels are the future

>>13827751
i never have. ive seen a were monkey once. thats it though.

>>13827756
I weep for the future.

>>13827766
>imagine worrying about the format of the publishing instead of the content of the work

>>13827942
The format influences the content. When you are guided into publishing every week you tend not to think about the long term, which makes the overreaching plot disconnected and the series gets sidetracked into irrelevant shit.

>>13827612
>tugs gods braid
>heckat is precious heckat is beautiful

Are any of Wildbow's webnovels other than Worm worth reading? Has anyone even tried the others?

Is the saga of Alvin Maker worth reading or is it just Mormon propaganda?

>>13827300
I'd say yes.

I found them really enjoyable and rereading it with the end already in mind is perhaps even more satisfying than the first time around.

Currently on a Farscape binge. Are there any good sci-fi novels about a small crew of aliens who kind of don't get along, but like each other really, and ultimately it's a pretty comfy time?

>>13828010
You'll just have to try for yourself because most everyone here detests webnovels and most self-published works.

>>13828029
Did it sound like I was asking the people who hate webnovels? Whether or not people are in a minority here is not my concern.

>>13828021
I wish. Farscape is GOAT. It ended space opera for me.

>>13828044
It ought to be because it determines how likely you are to get response from such a person.

>>13828047
Do you not get how 4chan works? You take ten seconds to post something and if it's fucking stupid or nobody gives a shit, nobody replies. This isn't Reddit where you can farm karma by smugly directing people to more niche subreddits. If someone here who's tried Wildbow's other stuff happens to see my post, good, otherwise it was a waste of ten seconds.

>>13828085
You seem rather upset.

>>13828045
B5 is GOAT.

(from previous thread)

>>13826281
>>13826434
Why nobody suggests Marusek? The Wedding Album and Counting Heads were more than amazing, Mind Over Ship (heads part 2) is next on my to read list

>>13828010
Twig is superior to Worm unless the biopunk setting throws you off

>>13826783
>>13826811
Actual retail version of monthly book:
https://mega.nz/#!qt8RwCaT!G1qXcuMD1lEgJnpRFk0POXQXcnc9Y3_n9YgZBq6lfM0

>>13828021
not that i know of, but if the "aliens" part isn't a deal breaker for you, i guess you could watch dark matter

>>13828021
Omega Force

>>13828197
>dark matter
Good show, unfortunate cancellation.

>>13826783
Is there something similar to Hyperion?

Does anyone have any good recommendations for fantasy books that deal with social justice issues? I have to read a book that deals with social justice issues for an English assignment but dont feel like reading some modern day thing that will bore me.

>>13828227
agreed, it had a good run with a lot of plot progression though. i'm not as mad as i was about firefly or b5 crusade.

>>13828249
Dark Matter really matures in its last season, fucking syfy needs to die. Almost killed the Expanse too.

>>13828243
Stop discrimination against non-human humanoids!
Orc lives matter!
If you wouldn't let your daughter date a goblin, you're a racist!
#notalltrolls
Ogres are people too, my friend.

>>13826827
I too have the exact same feelings re: the exact same series and fanbase. I don't often have this issue with books, though it's quite common with television.

>>13828243
the witcher "deals" with it i guess, but it's far from at the forefront for most of the time AND it's 7 books AND the english translation is cringe.
also it's probably more nuanced than your professors want from you. that is to say, anti-non-human bigots and religious fanatics get mocked but scoia'tael get criticized as well.

i guess if you're familiar with the basic gist of the witcher world you can read the latest book, season of storms, which is the most modern one and it has more of that social justice type stuff.

>>13828302
>>13828243
oh and it aso has a lot of stuff about misogyny, sexism, the treatment of women, etc.

>>13828243
Let's pretend that you are 18+ and this is for a college class.
Unless it's a mainstream contemporary literary novel, your English professor may be rather displeased and say it isn't the sort that was meant.

>>13828243
No, what you need instead is this.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22929741-the-argonauts#
160 pages.
It's /lit/ pretentiousness, 4chan edginess, wrapped in bleeding edge social justice.

Passages are taken from the top review.

October, 2007. The Santa Ana winds are shredding the bark off the eucalyptus trees in long white stripes. A friend and I risk the widowmakers by having lunch outside, during which she suggests I tattoo the words HARD TO GET across my knuckles, as a reminder of this pose’s possible fruits. Instead the words I love you come tumbling out of my mouth in an incantation the first time you fuck me in the ass, my face smashed against the cement floor of your dank and charming bachelor pad. You had Molloy by your bedside and a stack of cocks in a shadowy unused shower stall. Does it get any better? What’s your pleasure? you asked, then stuck around for an answer.

Before we met, I had spent a lifetime devoted to Wittgenstein’s idea that the inexpressible is contained - inexpressibly! - in the expressed. This idea gets less air time than his more reverential Whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent, but it is, I think, the deeper idea. Its paradox is, quite literally, why I write, or how I feel able to keep writing

I am not interested in a hermeneutics, or an erotics, or a metaphorics, of my anus. I’m interested in ass-fucking.

Is there something inherently queer about pregnancy itself, insofar as it alters one’s “normal” state, and occasions a radical intimacy with - and radical alienation from - one’s body? How can an experience so profoundly strange and wild and transformative also symbolize or enact the ultimate conformity?

In whose world is the morphological imaginary defined as that which is not real?

On the surface it may have seemed as though your body was becoming more and more ‘male,’ mine more and more ‘female.’ But that’s not how it felt on the inside. On the inside, we were two human animals undergoing transformations beside each other, bearing each other loose witness. In other words, we were aging.

>>13828435
That makes me want to stab someone

>>13828010
Definitely NOT Ward, it all the bad and none of the good taken out of Worm. Literally read the wiki summary if you're interested, it's better written than the actual thing.

>>13828482
thats a shame. Was kind waiting fo ward but when the protag turned out to be some bimbo from worm i lost all interest

>>13828466
Feelings of jealousy and inferiority do tend to evoke that response.

>>13826953
Yeah, things are looking up!

>>13827682
>tfw
Well that is embarrassing. I'll post the correct one next thread.

>>13828152
>>13828607

>>13828620

>>13828607
Wow. I haven't seen an EFG posted in years.

>>13828099
>Mind Over Ship
Because, at first, I thought I never heard of David Marusek but after looking him up I passed up on Counting Heads before because the premise sounds like your usual AI fantasy.

>>13826797
>>13827160
>>13827170
>>13827044
>>13827756
>>13828010
>>13828482
Threadly reminder that litrpg belongs on /tg/, bugman webnovels belong in the chinkshit thread, and your self published fanfiction has no place anywhere.

>>13826841
>>13827217
BASED

>>13827217
>Pretty sure it's 2
Yeah, it's the same 2 guys going back and forth with occasional samefagging. I honestly don't understand why they don't just Skype each other or something. It's like they're seeking some sort of verification by posting here, as if associating themselves with us somehow normalizes their fetish in their own minds.

Just finished Rendezvous with Rama, are the sequels worth reading?

>>13829064
I'm sorry you can't see that RI is the pinnacle of eastern, nay ALL fiction! Even translated from chinese, it's prose and poetry shines through victorious! The ultimate protagonist, the ultimate setting, the ultimate mythology and philosophy! No other book can compete, the concept of writing itself cowers at the mention of it's name, feeling unworthy of containing such a masterpiece!

Does anyone Can recommend any good essays on future of society tropical?

>>13829102
No, avoid them at all costs.

>>13829118
>Does anyone Can recommend any good essays on future of society tropical?
You have to learn to walk before you start running ESL-kun.

this was pretty fun, basically edgy YA. i didn’t know anything about it before so it took some interesting turns

>>13829121
That's what I thought.
>>13829125
You're right. Besides that, and thought ?

>the guy I steal recommended books from hasn't updated their page for at least 8 months, halp

>>13829106
Kek

thoughts

>>13829296
>Brent Weeks
This triggers the grimderppler

>>13829311
who

>>13829106
Can't tell if satire or honest opinion from litrpgfag

>>13829388
>>13829289
You obviously haven't experienced the religious epiphany induced by acute Fang Yuan exposure.
All other "novels" are trash by comparison, unclean literary bile compared to the golden wisdom and clarity of RI.

>>13829388
It's not litrpg, it's pure chinkshit.

>>13829296
Fun, but overly edgy and it’s obvious that it was his first series.

Reading exerpts and giving my thoughts on Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, one chapter per week.

Currently four chapters/weeks into the endeavour.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyuQxGSLydvTN_hgLq9eZsVeQuQlWeb2Z

>>13826565
>t. Assblasted janny

>>13829559
>It's chinkshit not litrpg
Right, but the bugmen and litrpg faggots are the same people

I AM READING "THE FREEZE-FRAME REVOLUTION" BY PETER WATTS
HAVE ANY OF YOU FAGS READ THIS?
I SURE WISH UNCROWNED WAS OUT

>>13829296
Interesting object lesson in how trying really hard to seem mature only makes you seem more juvenile.

>>13829592
>>13829697
did it better than ASOIAF

>>13829737
Cow shit smells better than dog shit but I still don't want either of them near my dinner plate.

>>13829743
Sucks for you because cow manure is highly nutritious for plants, and odds are that something from the flora kingdom on your table got fattened on cow pies.

>>13829813
You go ahead and eat those cow pies then I guess.

>>13829296
Some parts were bad, but I loved it. Nothing is perfect and you have to take some bad with the good. I also liked the sentient bleeding edge magical armor thing they had going. I was reading bleeding edge ironman as it was coming out, and this was a godsend.

>>13829743
you don't even read

>>13829885
You caught me.

>>13829653
>bugmen and litrpg faggots are the same people
I'm self published chart anon, and while I might give a nod to some litrpg because the market is in a desert at the moment and any unpoisoned water stop is a blessing, I only recommend chinkshit that has been subverted by westerners. Raw chinkshit is too alien in prose, understanding and morals.

>>13829896
knew it

>>13829596
Stop advertising. No one gives a shit.

>>13829828
Do I look like a plant to you? I can make my own opinion and don't rely on you making decisions for me.

>>13826797
>Morningwood
>The Dark Mage
lmfao

>>13829912
>too alien in prose, understanding and morals.
>implying that isn't the case for several of those in the chart

>>13829946
Plant
>Anyone assigned to behave as a member of the public during a covert operation (as in a police investigation).
Yes, yes, you do.

>tfw you have 30+ series where you've only read the first book but you plan to get around to reading others in the series eventually....but apparently never do

>>13827612
>chick writer
No shit.

/sffg/, I just realized today that even if I have ~50-70 years left in my natural lifespan to write my magnum opus, I probably only have 15-20 years left before my mom dies. I don't intend to live much longer than a week after that, so realistically my life's past the half-way point

>>13830239
I gaze upon this post in wonder.
Truly 4chan amazes in its cornucopia of mental illness.

Need some audiobook recommendations. Looking for top-tier quality stories if possible.

>>13830254
it's just how it is. Depression's always been an issue for me, but when I was in my darkest moments, the realization that losing me would kill her was what gave me the ability to hang on. When she dies I'll reach the darkest moment in my life with nothing to keep me from going over the edge

>>13830303
Depression is the inability to construct a future. - Rollo May, humanistic and existential psychologist

Due to the severe cognitive distortion depression creates, you feel that way, but that's only because you aren't able to see it any other way for now.

You won't know for certain until it happens.

>>13828282
Honestly, it's hard to find this kind of conflict with books unless you're reading YA or something ultra popular. The beauty of reading is that (most) books do not cater to an audience for mass appeal like television often must. So it is rare to overhear two people at work offering a very shallow critique of Gene Wolfe, because they simply will not have read him.

>>13830355
>they simply will not have read him.
That for a lot of books posted in here as well excluding the most popular. So really, it's still mass appeal, just for a different and smaller audience.

>>13829296
Honestly, the first book to make me consider the term "Action Fantasy". It was very fun to read, though it was obviously not as well written as it could have been by his own admission. If you like the pace and the prose you should check out his second series The Lightbringer. It wraps up with entry number 5 this October and it is a far better crafted series.

>>13830367
Sure, but it's more niche and when you shrink a demographic so greatly you remove a lot of the terrible people, though not all terrible opinions, from its readership.

>>13830239
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFaYKaDTKrY

>>13830400
If by "terrible people" you mean "dissimilar to me" and if by "terrible opinions" you mean "disagreeable opinions", then sure.

It's all too easy for a small and homogeneous demographic to become an echo chamber of ever more extremist thought.

>>13830447
No by terrible people I mean "lacking thoughtfulness" and by terrible opinions I mean "superficial or derivative". I don't mind disagreeing with people. I do it on 4chan every day. I disdain people who stumble into another genre or format and immediately begin equivocating with other things they've read. See: every review that bemoans the lack of relationship between two characters. Especially if the lack of relationship has a thoroughly explored basis.

>>13830239
I guess I'm in the same situation as you are. I think my mom will still live 30-40 years, though, so I'll have to suffer a little bit longer than you.

>>13829912
>I shill chinkshit and litrpg even though I know they are horrible and devoid of value
Cool story, chartanon, but that shit doesn't belong in sffg in the first place

>>13830533
I'd consider most of the posts to be "lacking thoughtfulness" and "superficial or derivative", but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that part.

>relationship between two characters.
I don't mind. People can think what they want. It only becomes a problem when they actively try to influence the creators.

>>13830158
Let me rephrase that, do I look like a member of the floral kingdom?

I look upon all that I have available, far more than I could ever read in a lifetime, and thus I am paralyzed by choice.

>>13828094
and yet rather right

>>13830959
Indeed.
Far Right, one may even say.

Recommend me some xianxia where the dirty seep of liberalism thought has no place /sffg/

>>13830993
RI, the only thing that's liberal is the use of force.

>>13830287
all are audiobooks

>>13830570
>what is reading comprehension
I see looking at too much conan homoerotic comic books has shorted out your brain, dyel-crom anon.

>>13830974
You triggered, snowflake?

>>13829026
Where is there a chinkshit thread? Id unironcally start browsing it.

>>13829296
edgy trash but fun

>>13828044
>Webnovels
>Minority
It's just the two of you faggots. FaceTime each other and spare the thread your weaboo trash

>>13831189
>Everyone who insults me is conanfag
Jesus Christ. Imagine giving a fat nerd this much rent free headspace

>>13831543
If you type and behave like the faggot dyel, why are you surprised that people would confuse you two.

>>13831189
>I see looking at too much conan homoerotic comic books has shorted out your brain, dyel-crom anon.
You need to work on securing that sexuality, chubs.

>>13826827
>>13828282
I've also found this regarding the Red Rising series. I know I should have known better but I guess I am capable of deceiving even myself, I expressed sympathy and support for the plight of Lysander and got completely shouted down. Even when I pointed out that his list of crimes totalled far less than that of Darrows I will still shat upon. Darrow is my favourite character from the series but his actions are without doubt morally reprehensible and ultimately bares most of the responsibility for a vast majority of deaths in the series.

>>13831472
/Csg/
>>13831604

>>13831577
>Spend all day shilling self published smut to people who don't like "books" about gaining levels for sucking off minotaurs
>They're the faggots
Ok. Here's some goblin gams for your effort

>>13831601
That's the point of the series isn't it, at least the second half? In order to win a war Darrow has to do ugly things. Even as he tries to entertain the idea of Demokracy he no doubt dreams of the lives he could save if he had Imperium. While you're correct in saying that Lysander's sum evils are fewer than those of Darrow's, I'd like to point out that that is because he has spent the last decade playing space police with Cassius. The threat Lysander proposes is the enslavement of mankind once again. Even Gold is not free under the rule of The Society. So while I don't relish the loss of lives over such a war it is entirely necessary to prevent the total subjugation of humanity.

>>13831639
Yes, but where do we draw the line, is Darrow justified in totality because he fights for a cause we approve of, one that happens to conform to our own notions of liberty and personal freedoms. I still hope Darrow prevails as I'm too invested in the characters and the story but to me 200 something million lives seems an unimaginable casualty count. To me the Rim's Qualis rex talis grex approach seems much more acceptable considering there was no need for violence.

The main that always irked me was the absolute conviction in the validity of Darrow's methods readers often had, the sense of unwavering righteousness that seems to radiate from some of the comments, especially after Dark Age, I found a little disconcerting. In regards to the book itself I actually thought it was a bit of a mess compared with the previous one and the previous trilogy, I thought Brown was going to plan out this sequel trilogy but many of the events and characters seemed like 'cool new ideas' he just thought of while writing in between books and just tried his hardest to make it all work.

>>13831759
I'm certainly not a blind believer in Darrow's cause but he always seems to act with a level of pragmatism that is laudable, at least for one in such a position as he. Consider that around 80 million lives were lost in World War 2, out of a total population of 2.3 billion. The Solar System has approximately 18 billion people living in it, and over 200 million have perished in this war. Should the Allies have laid down their arms and given into fascisms, to preserve the lives of those who died in the war? Western society certainly doesn't think so. It is ultimately better to die free than to live in chains, that is what the Republic knows and understands. In fact it is the Senate that undermines this popular sentiment and threatens to undo it, citing smaller more inane reasons on a continental, rather than planetary scale. It's the kind of question that doesn't have an answer until all is said and done, decades later.

As for Dark Age, I absolutely agree. Moving to 5-odd perspectives was jarring. While it was nice to get more Victra and I enjoyed Ephraim's parts when he was on the job, most of the book is just filler. The Mercury ordeal took far too long to resolve, even if it had several cataclysmic consequences. Combine this with the fact that the Red girl - whose name I cannot even recall (and I finished Dark Age two weeks ago) - is boring as all sin, and Lysander is insufferably sanctimonious and I ended up really only "sort of" enjoying this book.

>>13831828
> I enjoyed Ephraim's parts when he was on the job, most of the book is just filler. The Mercury ordeal took far too long to resolve, even if it had several cataclysmic consequences. Combine this with the fact that the Red girl - whose name I cannot even recall (and I finished Dark Age two weeks ago) - is boring as all sin.

This, I don't expect it improve as the likeable Ephraim will likely be replaced with a POV of Volga who comes across as a simpleton, coupled with the entire Obsidian plotline being the most unconvincing and entire sublot with Ozgard and his prophecy and Volga being the daughter Ragnar especially jarring and not belonging in the series, even if these books only masquerade as being scifi.
As in regards to Lyria, I'm predicting that she will encounter Darrow, as I think it is hinted that Darrow escaped with her brothers (the unnamed red sniper twins) so that will hopefully make her not dullest POV 3 books running.
Lysander albeit being a snob and the entire introduction of 'The Minds Eye' being incredibly contrived will likely have the most interesting POV. Fighting Darrow while also planning the betrayal of Atalantia and Atlas secretly with Apollonius will probably put him in constant contact with the more interesting breed of characters.

>>13831828
>>13831759
>>13831639
And other posts. What an amazing case of replying to Yourself.

>>13831903
Agreed, Lysander, while annoying in himself does bring all the interesting characters to the table. I can't wait to see what Appollonius does, who he betrays first. I honestly expected Lyria to meet Darrow rather quickly. She's clearly the everyRed's perspective on the war, something Darrow is now far removed from. The snipers are most definitely related to Lyria, though I thought there were 3 of them at the start of the battle. With one of them being overrun by Society forces.

The whole Obsidian storyline seems the most contrived and ungainly plot of the entire book, with an anti-payoff of Sefi being so weak that she let her people re-enter servitude of a new form. I found her to be an exceedingly boring character and now she's dead. Replaced by her father, back from the Rim thanks to space magic or some shit. The only thing more cringe was the Jackal's reincarnation, which honestly could've been far more interesting if he wasn't just immediately taking up the yolk of the previous Jackal.

>>13831904
Are you complaining about the fact that our opinions are largely in accordance or do you genuinely believe this to be the schizophrenic ramblings of a single deluded fan?

Am I retarded or is the trope of Elves in fantasy just a modification of the trope of mythological Angels with pointy ears instead of wings and they live in the forest instead of the sky.

>>13831904
What a world you must live in.

>>13831930
>The only thing more cringe was the Jackal's reincarnation, which honestly could've been far more interesting if he wasn't just immediately taking up the yolk of the previous Jackal.
Ugh forgot about him, I thought Lilath being still alive was lame, then child Adrius appeared. Entire thing smacked of the author running shit out of ideas.

How did you people actually get through the Red Rising series. I read the first book and it was shit but I kept reading hoping the author might actually get good at writing but then it actually got shittier and by the end of the second book I was ready to quit but then I opened the third book just to make sure and it was so bad I just threw it away.

>>13831970
>Entire thing smacked of the author running shit out of ideas.
Probably. Though he had some good ones. Ephraim was far too good a character to waste on a shitty death such as his. Volga should've died, honestly. I dread a character as bland as her getting even more screentime as she becomes more important to the plot. Also Lilath escaping the destruction of her ship, even as Appollonius gleefully turned his guns on her without hesitation was ridiculous.

>>13831981
Call it a difference of opinion.

>>13831988
>difference of opinion
The writing style was childish and jarring. The characters were unrealistic caricatures, their motivations, thought processes, and decisions were just wacky. The setting itself wasn't THAT bad but it was inconsistent and bland. The plot was as cookie cutter as it gets. I mean I get it, YA books don't have a high standard to sell. But the books just aren't good even for YA.

>>13831981
First book was quite bad not gonna lie, and all the books do suffer from occasional sections of very cringy dialogue, but I enjoy the aesthetic and more or less linear plotlines. I don't delude myself and say they are akin to Dune or Hyperion but it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy reading them, I've also spent more time reading worse books too so I don't see what the problem is.

>>13832006
The problem is that no matter how old the characters get they still think and talk like young teenage children. If he wanted to make a YA series he should have just kept all the characters as children or made a plausible explanation in the story that accounts for their clear mental retardation.

>>13832000
Childish and jarring? With the exception of a truncated sentence here or there it was really quite smooth. As for caricatures, there are a few but there are few people in the books who are true caricatures. They each gain depth as the plot progresses. Just because it doesn't read like Asimov doesn't mean it's automatically YA. The characters aren't even children after the first book.

>>13832015
This is a story where people use swords in space. You've got high expectations lad.

>characters get they still think and talk like young teenage children.
They practically are though and isn't that more a criticism of author's ability anyway.

>>13827972
Literally Charles Dickens.

Good morning, bugmen. Here's some Conan to trigger you.

Posting for wei shi lindon and his glory in the upcomming uncrowned tournament

>>13831634
Man I wanna fuck Maisie Williams so bad. She looks weird, but it makes me want to fuck her more.

>>13826783
>dorito back

lost, hard.

>>13826797
Huge web novel nerd here, I hate that I know all these guys are obviously faggots.

Also anyone reading supreme magus?
Lith needs to cool it with this drama shit.
Phloria death flags by the minute.

>>13831634
>goblin gams
I have never read a more accurate description of Maisie Williams.

>>13827612
Tried reading it twice but holy shit ti's dull as fuck, not to mention the MCs justification for being so ridiculously evil is so fucking dumb. Thots btfo

>>13831639
>>13831759
>>13831828
>>13831930
fuck lysander tho

>women smart
>men dumb

>>13833970
>Joe Abercrombie

>>13833970
they industrial society now or what?

>>13834013
Yes

>>13833970
He got told off for only having ONE!!!! woman character in the original trilogy and he's been trying to make up for it ever since.

>>13834171
>stories where everyone is a huge sociopathic asshole
>dude you need to add more women!!! sexist pig!!!
>wtf why are all of the women in your story such sociopath? sexist pig!!!
You can't make those "people" happy by pandering to them. He cucked out and he will pay the price.

>>13831634
>>13832842
She looks like a short Casey Neistat in a wig.
Fetal alcohol syndrome is a hell of a drug.

Murderhobo YA fuck you
CHINKSHIT MORE WESTSHIT LESS
YOU READ BROWN ABERNORMIE = YOU DIE

>>13834188
He'll never write another as funny and amusing as Bremer dan Gorst or a San dan Glokta. I'm about a quarter of a way in and every character seems fairly one dimensional, only the female characters are competent functioning individuals and the one male character that hints at that is bossed around by his mother and I have a sneaking suspicion that he'll turn out to be gay. I don't have a problem with that but make of it what you will, but I do know that he copped criticism for writing a couple of the bitchy and one dimensional lesbians so I wouldn't be surprised if he's making up for that particular sin.

So far I haven't been drawn in or wanted to feel invested in the characters, I seem to spend most of my time hoping and waiting for a character that I'm familiar with will appear. Pretty bland book so far to be frank.

>>13834171
He had "fukin pinks" and west's sister, maybe more I can't recall.

>>13834252
Nah it was just Feral bitch who was a POV. Which is what he copped it for, as opposed to Jezel, Glokta, Logan, West and the Dogman.

>>13834252
The lesbian princess, for half a book. Then the girl who turned west down for being too angry, but she wasn’t really a character.

>>13833970
TORRENT WHEN

>>13834281
it was uploaded day of release
tard

>>13826783
I WANT TO WRITE A FANTASY BOOK. HOW DO I DO IT AND MAKE IT ORIGINAL?

>>13831610
Kek. You think I samefagged in this general years ago arguing with myself so the threads could be self sufficient just for some pol cunt to come and tell me that published books I'm reading (fuck webnovels) don't belong in the general just because it's too adult for his virgin deus vult ways?
You think I slaved at making hundreds of threads so some interloper who doesn't even read can tell me my self published books (which are not webnovels, and is published on both kindle and audible) is not to his liking so I must leave so he can feel better about himself?
You(pol) think you will walk into our board, our general, and just displace us?
Go fuck yourself and neck yourself.

>>13834333
Read 20,000 books. Learn 20 languages. Come back when you're done.

>>13826882
>furthermore it's heavily implied that the shadows were originally human/are humanity from the future.
Who ripped off Nier ?

>>13834333
First, start with the Greeks

>>13834333
Not possible. You can only attempt to make it less derivative by not 100% copying the most popular contemporary works. If you mostly take from old and previously popular works that most no one has ever read, almost no one will notice. That's how everything old becomes new again.

>lady iron whore

>>13834389
and then what?

>>13834802
Resume with the Romans. When you feel ready to write post in one of the writing threads.

>>13834947
>>13834389
>>13834802
meme advice

>>13835029
And why is that meme advice? What would you recommend him?

>>13835056
That which is relevant to what he would be writing.

>just finished The Fall of Hyperion
I loved Hyperion, fantastic book. While Fall was not bad it was not nearly as good as the first book. Based on this I will not be reading book 3 and 4. Is any of Simmons other books worth reading?

>>13835151
>Is any of Simmons other books worth reading?
See gif.
Song of Kali, Drood and you've got the Ilium/Olympos novels.

>>13835127
Not that anon but what material is actually relevant for writing fantasy? Greek and Roman classical works will certainly do no harm.

>>13833970
>tradpub

>>13832706
>10 days
Release it NOW!!

>>13833970
Abercrombie peaked with Best Served Cold and everything else is trash

>>13835185
>what material is actually relevant for writing fantasy?
If it isn't relevant to be discussed in this thread, it isn't relevant for writing.

>>13835435
Yeah but no one cares what you think is or isn't relevant.

>>13835402
Hey maisie williams' brother.

>>13835520
And yet we both talk about it.

>and fantasy
Why always tagging along elf bros?

>>13834338
I really hope this is just conanfag shitposting, because if you're for real I'm honestly afraid for your mental well being. Lay off the fanfiction and get some sun, bro!

>>13835198
>Litrpg
Cringe
>>13835402
>Peaked with BSC
He's only written three books since then, and The Heroes was his best work the original content in Sharp Ends was funny as fuck as well

>>13835816
>He's only written three books since then
Nigga you high? He's written several books for his other series since then

>>13827739
Not to mention the ears...

>>13835827
YA cashgrabs don't count

>>13835730
"We" don't talk about shit. It's a bunch of aspiring authors who come here to beg to help them be creative. "We" tell them to fuck off.

>>13835816
i kinda liked red country though he'd clearly been watching too much deadwood if there is such a thing.

>>13835198
equivalent of using the term cis

>>13830239
Are you really sure that you want to off yourself just because your mother died?

>>13835904
I would probably do the same. I don't want kids and don't want no cheating thot to tie myself to (all women cheat, once does count you slut). I don't have much in life than wageslaving and reading books. Will an hero sometime in the future. And before you say I'm an edgy 12 year old I'm 30++.

>>13835816
>>>Litrpg
>Cringe
There's more than litrpg in self-published, pleb.

>>13835898
That's funny because that's a term used by those that are forcing authors in tradpubs to comply with their demands, as evidenced by the original poster >>13833970 and >>13834188.

>villainous girl kills MC's love interest
>MC falls in love with her
>undead love interest brings villainous girl back from the dead and dies for good
what a KEK

>>13835904
I'm sure when she dies I'm going to be depressed as hell, and I'm sure that when I'm depressed as hell I usually want to kill myself. I'm not necessarily going to want to kill myself because she died, but when she does die I'm going to want to kill myself and I won't have a shoulder to cry on or a good reason not to do it, so suicide seems pretty likely. My bet is on getting a police officer to kill me. I'm american so that's not particularly hard. I'll just need a bag of skittles and a hoodie

>>13836057
You're not fooling anyone. We aren't interested in your animu catboi stories

I finally just finished God Emperor of Dune, which is far in the series as I want to go, so hit me up with the hottest Dune memes.

>>13836191
Jessica is top tier mommy and Paul was a fag for going for Channi instead when he could have gotten all three of them.

>>13836110
That makes no sense. Did you mean to say:
>villainous girl kills MC's love interest
>MC falls in love with her
>villainous girl brings back undead love interest from the dead and dies for good

>>13836257
>villainous girl kills MC's love interest
>MC falls in love with her
>villainous girl gets killed
>undead love interest brings villainous girl back from the dead and dies for good

>>13836110
What book?

>>13836300
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26114463-nevernight

>>13836116
If you're white then you're going to need a weapon and you'll have to threaten the officer.

>>13836116
>>13836429
>>>/lgbt/

>>13836191
>finally finished
The ultimate state of /sffg/

>>13836305
>>13836285
>>13836110
I can't remember that when I read book one and two. also the bitch was a carpet muncher. I hate when my female mcs don't get dicked. Like why would I want to read about two fishes flopping on a bed?

>>13833970
abercrombie has been on a downhill slide since The Blade Itself and that was a 5/10

any decent sci-fi come out lately? palmer's been delayed right?

>>13836695
the third one came out earlier this month
it's still hilarious that the girl who stabs and throws the LI over a balustrade wins in the end

>>13828239
>Is there something similar to Hyperion?
Second this. Fucking fantastic books.
Doesn't even have to be similar, just as good would be nice

>>13837102
Is the love interest that boy from book one? The one that got an empty tomb? Please tell me Ms Dark gets penised in this one. I might read book 3 of that happens.

Any author who writes about a mature love interest for our straight male protagonist?

>>13835151
Really? I'm towards the end of it and like it as much as the first.

>>13826797
Man only 4 of these look good. Threadbare, Orconomics, Another Stupid Spell, and Dungeon Born.

Worst cover award goes to Spellmonger and Starship's Mage.

Most annoying cover goes to godking's legacy.

>>13837741
>>13826797
my thoughts
https://pastebin.com/MgtmPmp3
maybe eventually I'll get around to updating it.
It's a mystery how many more times I'll post this pastebin.

>>13837477
Trysmoon saga

>>13837824
Oh shit I love these kinds of lists. Thanks for that. My autism will enjoy this

Why is fantasy and sci-fi so low bar? Why are there so few (if any) fantasy and sci-fi works that are literary fiction in their own right?

>>13837824
Fuck off.

>>13837824
Glad to see orconomics was up there.

All the ones I expected to be shit were shit indeed.

>>13837898
A good question I'm not smart enough to answer. Perhaps another anon here could?

It could be due to popularity and accessibility as a genre. Almost every person at one point has wanted to live in some cool fantasy world with a bunch of futuristic or fantastical beings thrown in. Plus it's a really easy setting to do some dog shit self insertion for a harem or edgy revenge plots that people came up with when they realized the cool kids in high school made fun of him.

>>13837898
>He hasn't read Zelazny

>>13837891
>T. Chartanon

>>13837653
Yeah. The first book was something really special when it comes to the writing, structure and worldbuilding while The Fall is more of an ordinary space opera. I also did not particularly enjoy the ending, real spoilery spoilers brah with all the feelgood stuff and tying up loose strings. Rachel appearing to explain everything, Brawne randomly killing the Shrike, everyone living happily ever after and toasting each other, etc. The whole destruction of the farcaster web also felt rushed and unbelievable, like am I supposed to believe that the Core either did not predict it or was to distracted fighting to remember that it was likely to happen?

>>13833970
oh no...

>>13838045
>He thinks Zelazny isn't a pulp author that just had interesting world building and decent characters development

>>13833970
anyone else waiting 2 years for the complete trilogy before starting? what are the chances we get spoiled before then?

>amazon sent me an email saying abercrombie has been delayed

whatever happened to scott lynch?

>>13838742
>preorders from amazon and not from his nearby bookshop which receives the books before the release date so delays don't occur
also
>purchases from amazon instead of just purchasing the amazon ebook.

>>13838770
nearby bookshop is not a thing that exists for me, and ebooks are for fags.

>>13838759
doesnt he have depression or something, i remember it took ages between locke lamora books.

>>13837898

Because people read them for the ideas, not the prose style. Fantasy and sci-fi are not reflexive forms of literature where you're supposed to be thinking about reading literature as you do it: you're supposed to be thinking about wizards with jetpacks, or whatever. They're imagination aids.

>>13838759
Depression apparently, not that it matters. Red seas was tolerable but 3rd one of god how BORING and so tired of it all I felt by the end of it, literally took me a year to finish i put it down so many times. There is only so many times a conversation between the same two characters can be interesting ahhh god it was dull i didn't even care about the red headed woman who took three fucking books to appear. If i had been responsible for writing this tired borefest book I too would disappear into complete obscurity for years citing depression. ugh.

>>13836191
>which is far in the series as I want to go

you think so, but you are wrong. plow on ahead for pussy magic, cat people, and brooding hypnobong proprietors

Why is this book so unpopular here again?

>>13835781

Is this series any good? The only "space Horatio Hornblower" books I've read are Honor Harrington which progressively gets more and more hilariously bad

What do you think of my Science Fiction and Fantasy schedule for my class at my university? Currently in it and its not too bad so far.

>>13838847
>Science Fiction and Fantasy class
People pay for this?

>>13838005
>>13837824
>>13837741
>https://pastebin.com/MgtmPmp3
>I read a few pages then skimmed and did some keyword searches
>skimmed something and thinks he has the right to tell us what that something is about
That's not how reviews work anon. I don't skim a book looking for specific things to highlight, so my personal vendetta against this specific thing can be validated. What you did there wasn't impartial nor unbiased. You have some chip on your shoulder for whatever reason and set out to let as much people know.

>>13838847
>world war z

yikes

>>13838814
it's a particularly vocal autist

>>13838814
>miles 'mommy no!' cameron
>>13838910
It was unpopular before I got here.

>>13838910
Nice try, Cameron.

>>13828931
>because the premise sounds like your usual AI fantasy

What do you mean with "the usual AI fantasy"? I honestly don't know.

Btw, I think that Counting heads deals with several topics, so I find it hard to describe it in one sentence. (I am a fan, I have to admit)

>>13838814
dunno. I liked it and his recent series too.

>>13837460
she doesn't get the D anymore

>>13838814
not enough rape apparently

Pull out the dictionary and help.

>>13839295
Why would I care about realism? I read genre fiction to get away from reality shit.

>just made myself seem smart by quoting the "money has no provenance" line from the black company
wow, i thought i was a pseud but normies are something else

>lead on warleader

>fuck the gods, tracker

>>13839331
What does that have to do with the image?

>>13839400
not him but i opened the image and the literal first word was "realism".
not gonna read any further than that since i've decided you're a huge faggot.

>>13839407
>"i dont like this word so i stopped reading"

/lit/ - Literature

>>13839426
does this being the literature board mean i have to read every pseud's pathetic, self-screenshotted rant?

SUMMON THE THREAD WHORE

>>13838814
>men are bad
>Women are good
>there are no inbetweeners

>>13836721
that's generous

>>13839579
>i dislike that book you dislike even more than you do!
weird flex but ok
we'll keep that in mind anon

>>13838847
Garbage. Completely ignores all the works of actual literary merit, and doesn't even give a good understanding of the genre's history.
I would bet good money that this course was made by a compsci scifi nerd with no actual understanding of literature, or a lit prof that doesn't actually read SFF, but wanted to look cool.
Also world war z is super yikes.

>>13836251
Oh fuck i forgot about the widowed milf slave, literally every other option was better than chani, Paul was such a retard.

>>13838903
>What you did there wasn't impartial nor unbiased.
I never claimed it was.

>>13833970
Man, I hope this is good. I just recently discovered The First Law, read it in a single heartbeat, loved it. Am reading Heroes now, think it's the best in the series. This honestly might be my favourite contemporary fantasy, I tried Sanderson and he's a fucking hack, apart from the magic systems.

>>13838847
Sad & Bad, so basically as expected.
It's to be expected of consumer-based universities now though.

>On that first weekend before term, Shara tore through the Batlan rankings like a shark. She did not win: she annihilated the other players. Since she essentially won the games in the first dozen plays, and had to play out the next three dozen before taking the board, she found herself increasingly contemptuous of the other players, flailing in her traps as they thought they were playing one game when in truth they were playing another. And she let her contempt show: she sighed, rolled her eyes, sat with her chin in her hand, and groaned as her opponents made one blind, stupid move after the other.
City of Stairs, she never really played this game before, all the other !pajeets spent months to years practicing it. These Mary Sue MCs are basically just *teleports behind you/"keikaku doori" anime characters qt this point. So tiresome

>>13840023
worst offender for me recently was the general in ken liu's thing

>>13830541
yeah me as well, once mom is dead, I will go, but she's pretty young

>>13840023
In wheel of time, one of the MCs (Perrin) casually kills a Myrddraal, while in the previous book a single Myrddraal killed 7 soldiers. I complain about this and the fanboy response was "well Perrin was a fighter in his past lives". so shit you did in a previous life is more relevant than the training you receive in this life, fuck off man.

>>13840206
Perrin has wolf magic.

>>13840206
Myrddraal are jobbers. Hell, almost all the bad guys in WoT are jobbers

>>13840209
in that particular fight (beginning book 3 TDR, attack on their mountain camp) he didn't use wolf magic. just hit him with an axe til he died

>>13840254
yeah they defeat literal satan in book 1, how tf are you supposed to take anything seriously. moiraine is hyping up the forsaken, "they can kill us from across the city if they notice us", bro you took on 2 forsaken in the first book, come on now

>>13840254
>jobber
What a stupid fucking name.

>>13840422
t. an actual jobber

>>13840422
What else would you call them? It's just paper tiger or straw man but specifically referring to characters in a fictional narrative

>>13838847
It's shit but The Outsider is the absolute best short story in the English language

>>13840422
In professional wrestling slang, a job is a losing performance. It is derived from the euphemism "doing one's job". When a wrestler is booked to lose a match it is described as "a job". Wrestlers who routinely or exclusively lose matches are known as jobbers.

ded

>>13840919
tred

>>13840947
halp