/lit/ - Literature

>>13803180
You need to familiarize yourself with Fred Rogers

>>13803180
I'm a classical musician and I've been reading decline of the west.

I also found it very depressing he said high-art and music are dead, and to pursue technology instead. On some part I sort of agree with him but I'm also not sure if I should believe him either.

>>13803180
>transhumanist literature
Why? You'll become a tranny. And we all know trannies are miserable. You're likely a male, so you'd be a mtf tranny. Half of those end up killing themselves. Trust me, you're better off a luddite.

>>13803185
weak faggot cant handle the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk4YqCuXKiQ

>>13803180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhHCDh1zjn8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL78Ujnz35A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo-7WT_tJIo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIZi9c0ugJM

>>13803180
Spengler isn't exactly depressing, is he? I don't really get that one.

Have you read the Greeks yet? If not, you need to start there. Not a meme. Or try Buddhism first to cleanse your palate before moving on to them.

>>13803180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JehxPoS27nU&t=1s

>>13803349
how the hell you gonna make all that glass by yourself

>>13803180
I like uncle Ted and Spengy, but you fell for the memes too much. If you give just a bit of effort, you'll see that it's very simple to hide from the "system", and to not get hooked on it's shit. No need to live in hut either. As on Western culture it will have to rely on being perserved reculsives until TheFallOfRome.v.2.0

>>13803356
Glass is nice, but largelly redundant. Also glass, that just passes light trugh(not clear) is actualy not that hard to make.

>>13803335
I don't get how people find Spengler depressing. The US Empire is fucking terrible, why would you want it to continue?

>>13803367
this.

In 1837 the new nation's insatiable lust for land finally produced a financial panic that spread back from the western frontier to the population centers of the East. The previous year had been the biggest yet in land sales, and an extent of territory the size of New England had passed into the control of the speculators. Now there was a crash that revealed not merely the enormous economic inflation of the times but their spiritual bankruptcy as well. Yet, surveying this scene, Horace Greeley could produce a remarkably characteristic solution: Move On: Go West. And those who could go did so, leaving those who could not stranded on their farms and in their little towns with outsized grid plans that would remain unrealized. Succeeding generations in this region would reap the crop of bitterness, frustration, and xenophobia that lurks there still -people, as the Midwesterner Glenway Wescott observed, born where they do not like to live.

The others went on. They bridged the great river and entered the grasslands that stretched all the way to the big mountains: tall grass prairies to the east, short grass plains westward, and beyond that the tough bunch grasses of the semidesert. This was the territory that had been described by Major Stephen Long as an uninhabitable desert. But closer experience revealed that the same blue-stem sod grass that grew in the rich lands of Illinois was to be found stretching west across the Mississippi. Henry Nash Smith has charted with clarity and grace the course of American thinking about this transMississippi region, and what is most striking is the evidence of the sudden realization that there were no limits to what could be done to America: that the advancing, driven people need not put up with any permanent barriers to their civilization or remain forever uneasy about the specter of the trackless West with its wild people. All of this too could be claimed for civilization. Within a very few years of the appearance on the charts of the "Great American Desert," men were planning the penetration of it by railroads.

Sometimes the rumors of western wealth seemed substantiated, as happened with the California gold strike at the end of the 1840s. These rumors quickened to fantastic life the old golden dream of the New World. As they ebbed, they left the West littered with haunted, stubble-cheeked prospectors, "eternals" seeking out lost lodes, rumors of Moctezuma's treasure, fabulous veins overlooked in earlier rushes, or caches of stolen jewels taken from explorers and settlers by marauding Indians. Pathetic scavengers, these, moping through a gigantic, glittering landscape and seeing nothing of it except the next horizon.

>>13803367
Most often, the rumors arose out of nothing more substantial than those recondite forces that drove the whites to fill up the continent's spaces with their presence. The ghastly story of the Donner Party should be understood as a parable of this, for here was a group like thousands of similar groups, traveling across barely charted spaces toward the vaguest rumors of More. According to their historian, C. F. McGlashan, many of them had been solid citizens of Ohio, Tennessee, Illinois, and Missouri, and yet here they were, crawling across the Great Plains, across a desert, and on into the high Sierras with scarcely a notion of their destination. McGlashan, interviewing the survivors, records that many had joined the procession without even knowing that it was going to California, only that it was going somewhere. Winter caught them in the mountains, imprisoning them in their miserable hovels until, perishing one after another, the survivors ate the frozen and emaciated corpses of the dead. Two Indian guides were revolted at such hunger until they themselves were shot and consumed as the desperate stragglers went over the pass and down into rescue.

Facing east from California's shores, as now we can, we have a clear view of this gigantic process, especially the portion of it that occurred west of the Mississippi. For out there the camera caught what we are pleased to call the "Winning of the West." Here are the track crews, shadowfaced, slouch-hatted men with their mules, laying track at two miles a day. Lonely figures are posed on bark-covered ties that stretch off into blank horizons. Rail tickets scream like circus posters, advertising transportation to "ALL POINTS IN THE MINING DISTRICTS." "Ho! for the GOLD MINES!" "1865! 1865!"

Here are the mining towns blasted out of the mountains with their tin roofs glinting in bleak contrast to the new wood of their walls and to the muddy streets and cluttered creeks. A jungle of advertising shingles hangs above the porches of the stores - Dentist, Wholesale Liquor Dealer, Bank - and beneath slouch the miners, shaggy, unkempt, hopeful. One sits on a crate in a Black Hills camp, a rifle across his knees to guard his claim. The names of the towns are Deadwood, Gold Hill, Montezuma's Works, Sugar Loaf.

>>13803180

if you wanna save humanity, you need to leave humanity behind. there will be other bitches to play with

>>13803367
Here are the timber miners who came out with the railroads after cutting as much as four million board-feet a year in the North Woods. Shattered hulks move along the skid roads and bull teams slog along while skid greasers pour from their rancid cans; locomotives three and four abreast haul redwood sections. Dwarfish figures are posed astride the ruins of primeval trees or beside heaps of slaughtered game or atop mountain crags that offer perspectives almost none of them could grasp.

Here are the silenced, solemn faces of the "hostiles" who vainly opposed all this: Sitting Bull, Satanta in his soldier's uniform with epaulets, Lone Wolf and Dull Knife in a photographer's studio.

Here are the soldiers, white and black, who fought the tribes for the possession of Indian territory: overstuffed generals in beards, buttons, and braid; lounging officers at Fort Ellis, Montana Territory, their coats open, their trousers saggy and boots dirty, the obligatory hound at the bottom of the steps of their quarters.

And here are the hostiles and soldiers together under the wide flaps of the treaty tent at Fort Laramie in 1868, the Indians in blankets and buffalo robes, their braids wrapped in weasel fur; the soldiers on their camp stools with William Tecumseh Sherman in their midst, his burning eyes fixed on those he had determined to destroy, treaty or no.

Here is a photograph that appears to epitomize the whole process, for it is of a literal land race: high noon, April 22, 1889, and the blurred forms of 10,000 whites racing off the starting line and into another section of "permanent Indian territory." This is Oklahoma, the devastated soil of which would in a mere three decades be visible on the East Coast in dense red dust clouds that rolled out into the Atlantic.

Here near the end of the westward rush is a photograph of a little man in a yard, surrounded by what appears to be chips and flakes of an indeterminate nature; they are actually buffalo bones, and the wellknown and much-lamented destruction of this animal is as concise a way of understanding what was done to America as we are likely to find, for the dates and numbers of this destruction are at once finite and suggestive.

>>13803297
if you want to read more about the decline in art read the crisis of our age by pitirim sorokin. there's a chapter about music. he was a critic of spengler

>>13803367
>The US Empire is fucking terrible, why would you want it to continue?
Because it will be the grand finale of the west followed by the disintegration of western people followed by the rise of the east for the next 2,000 years

>>13803367
To those who followed Columbus and Cortes the New World truly seemed incredible, not only because of what civilization had made of the Old World but because of the natural endowments of the one they now began to enter. The land often announced itself with a heavy scent miles out into the ocean, and the coasting whites with their nostrils full of salt and the sour odors of confinement recorded their delight with the odor of forests and verges in bloom. Giovanni di Verrazano in 1524 smelled the cedars of the East Coast a hundred leagues out. Raleigh's colonists scented what they thought a garden, though they would soon enough make it something else. The men of Henry Hudson's Half Moon, already disposed to hate and fear the natives, were temporarily disarmed by the fragrance of the New Jersey shore, while ships running farther up the coast occasionally swam through large beds of floating flowers.

Wherever they came inland they found that these announcements had been in no way false: the land, wilderness though it was, was a rich riot of color and sound, of game and luxuriant vegetation. Even if some of the most glowing descriptions of the New World were in fact realestate advertisements, given then as now to calculated falsehood, still the theme of beauty in abundance is so pervasive that it transcends any scheme, insisting its truth upon the reluctant and hesitant pens of the white observers. Had they been other than they were, they might have written a new mythology here. As it was, they took inventory, around the margins of which one feels the spectacular presence of America.

Waterfowl took flight under their advances with thunderous wings, and deer in unconcerned droves browsed lush meadowlands. Squirrels and huge turkeys barked and gobbled in the endless forests that stretched all the way from the coast to the huge river that Soto had crossed and recrossed and been buried in. Elsewhere ground fruits lavished themselves on the land: scarlet blankets of strawberries painted the bellies of the horses and the legs of the horsemen who rode through them, and swollen clusters of grapes bowered the streams and rivers.

>>13803367
When the whites penetrated the western watercourses they found the life there as abundant as it had been along the eastern seaboard where sturgeon, giant lobsters, and shad were so plentiful that settlers grew nauseated on them. Out west, Pierre Radisson in the middle of the seventeenth century found otters so numerous in the streams that they hindered the progress of the little expedition's canoes. Gigantic catfish thumped ominously against the frail crafts of Jesuit fathers and voyageurs, while overhead flocks of passenger pigeons traveled the skies in such numbers that for hours at a time the sunlight would be obscured.

When Daniel Boone and the Long Hunters crept through the Cumberlands into Kentucky, they discovered newer variations on this theme of abundance in a land of canebrakes, clover, bluegrass, wild grains, and salt licks where a thousand animals might be glimpsed in a single lucky moment. They saw the buffalo whose enormous presence Vaca and Coronado had earlier reported and whose relatives, the woods buffalo, were to be found in considerable numbers as far east as Pennsylvania and upper New York. Here these few whites were on the very margin of the prairies that stretched they knew not how far toward sunset, prairies that in spring glinted like an ocean running under windsunflower, golden alexander, prairie lily, silphium, blazing star, golden rod, sky blue aster, purple gentian, big bluestem.

All of it seemed so lavish and exhaustless that it tempted the whites to tales of exaggeration, some imported from the Old World, some locally grown. There was, for example, the story about the Fortunate Hunter: charged simultaneously by a bear and a moose, he sent his only shot into a rock squarely between them, the bullet splitting and each half killing its beast. The fragments of the rock killed a squirrel in a nearby tree, while the recoil of the hunter's rifle knocked him into a stream from which he emerged with his pockets brimming with fish.

>>13803395
What did he have to say about the future of art? Did he believe it was finished?

There have been musical artistic trends since Spengler like Minimalism, but obviously nothing to the magnitude of Wagner or something like that

As for the wildlife of the East, the turkey, prairie chicken, wolf, and elk were all driven out. So were the cougar and the woods buffalo. Strangely appropriate killer heroes now appeared in white folklore, such as the Pennsylvanian Aaron Hall who decimated the local panther population and in winter would festoon the premises of his cabin with their frozen carcasses. Another hunter of the same region was credited with having killed two thousand buffalo. The last of these creatures reported east of the Mississippi was a solitary vagrant shot in West Virginia in 1825, by which time the wilderness of the East was a faded and vaguely disquieting memory, perhaps most evidenced by its negative reminders: vanished forests, erosion, opened, parched lands, and small pockets of aboriginal slums where the demoralized fugitives who had somehow escaped deportation hung on surrounded by fields of white hatred.

As the inheritors rushed into the Mississippi Valley, the rage to clear and claim reached new levels. Into what Mark Twain with unconscious irony had called the "body of the nation" the whites now plunged their axes, plows, and other weapons, girdling and burning stands of oak and cypress at a rate that reached twenty-five million forest acres a year, and exterminating the wildlife in massacres. In Indiana Territory John Audubon witnessed one of these bloody spectacles, the victims of which were the passenger pigeons soon to be wholly exterminated. At sunset of a random day hundreds of settlers gathered in a woods known to be the roosting place of a huge flock. Armed with poles, torches, sulphur pots, firearms, and domestic hogs for the fattening, they waited for the winging in. Then the fearsome cry went up, "Here they come!" and the massacre commenced. In the glaring light of the torches the work went forward well past midnight as the heaps of dead birds mounted, and the din of the firing was so intense that Audubon could not distinguish the reports of even the nearest guns. In 1821 at New Orleans, Audubon witnessed a similar slaughter of golden plover.

In Hinckley Township, Ohio, on the day before Christmas 1818 five hundred men and boys from neighboring areas gathered to clear out pests. They marched forward into the forest blasting away, and when they came together at last they accounted for the lives of three hundred deer, twenty-one bears, seventeen wolves, and uncounted numbers of foxes and other small game.

Early on the original violater, Boone, had become aghast at the destruction that had been unleashed. A failed land speculator himself who had refused his own opportunity to become a white Indian, he lamented to Audubon the almost instantaneous depletion of the vast stores of game and the replacement of them by noisome herds of settlers and speculators more successful than he.
Of this last breed, there now appeared to be almost as many as passenger pigeons, only they were impossible to quarry. With a telling consistency the federal government was unable to frame land acts or ordinances that would favor the individual settler over the speculator, for in truth the government itself was but a manifestation of a culture long committed to speculation in unknown lands. And while Roy Robbins has shown that the history of the American public domain has been that of a protracted battle between the settler/squatter and the speculator, in fact there seems never to have been such a class as permanent settlers since most of them thought of themselves as at least potential realtors. Like the old conquistadores who would carve up the plundered lands of the islands and New Spain and then move on, few of these Americans would condescend to settle and grow roots. Instead, they would drive restlessly, relentlessly on, nameless, petty, misguided Coronados searching for their Cibolas ever westward.

Attracted by the fertility of the soil and the prospects of instant gain, hundreds of thousands left the East for the Mississippi Valley. "Ohio Fever" threatened to depopulate Connecticut, once the much coveted land of the Mohican, and large sections of western Massachusetts and upper New York became deserted, the stone walls of their fields spilling into the weeds, the houses, barns, and outbuildings crumbling down to their sills, and the pruned-back woodlands recommencing their slow and ironic advances. Speculators in the newer region gobbled up huge portions of land, holding them out to feverish hordes, driving up the prices, and selling ever smaller individual lots to those who could afford no larger. Metropolises in woods and swamps were mapped out on the grid plan that, as Lewis Mumford notes, had the preeminent advantage of facilitating the sale and resale of lots. And sold and resold they were, each individual buying up as much as he possibly could and far more than he ever intended to use, betting against tomorrow that newcomers would purchase from him at double his original investment. Almost none of these metropolises ever materialized, of course, though some survived as county seats presided over by hulking courthouses, outsized, stranded monuments to baseless ambition and expectation.

>>13803407
i gotta go. when i come back ill elaborate

>>13803180
I think that reading: religious, metaphysical, and generally weird, texts helps to clear the head and make one more humble, which I think is needed in order not fall for the other meme (transhumanism). I think that it's good to keep in mind what Teresa of Avila says, namely: “It is foolish to think that we will enter heaven without entering into ourselves.”

On Transhumanism: If transhumanism is the "right" thing, then, it will come step by step, and will be nothing like anyone of us is able to imagine: It will will not be a comedy nor a tragedy nor something that involves a choice. Taking all of this into account, nothing, I think, not even transhumanism will ever solve the problems that humans have to face, because we ARE these problems, all of it and them, these problems make us who we are, which is why there's nothing to solve really. Instead, what will happen, I think, is that transhumanism will create new areas with new goods and new problems. I respect transhumanists and people like Donna Haraway who say: "I'd rather be a cyborg, than a goddess": link to her manifesto: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/english/currentstudents/undergraduate/modules/fictionnownarrativemediaandtheoryinthe21stcentury/manifestly_haraway_----_a_cyborg_manifesto_science_technology_and_socialist-feminism_in_the_....pdf The problem,

However, I cannot avoid to wonder if, and how much of it, is selfish curiosity and a fetish for gadgets.

You fell for the memes, you are too dumb to read. Hate to break it to ya.

>>13803578
hate to break it to you but if you think Kaczynski and Jacques Ellul are memes the idiot is you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irdHSmRrdh0

>>13803180
You’re pessimistic that nothing can be done, so you just have to realize that the reason society is heading in the direction is now is solely because people in power have chosen to do so, and lay people like us contribute to it with our pessimism and ignorance. We have the power to start a social movement to convince people in power to stop the acceleration of capitalism

>>13803407
the future of art will depend on the next cosmovision (there are 3. one focused on the sensible world, one on the suprasensible and a mix between the two, as in the renaissance). we live currently in the end of the sensate art, the one that seeks to represent reality as we see, which has music about mundane things such as wine and women etc. sorokin defends a cyclical nature of cosmovisions. the next period will be a return to the suprasensible.

impressionistic and modern art are already a protest against the sensate art, but they fail by resorting to the senses in the end. his idea of history divided by cyclical periods is based on the statistical study of art (paintings, music etc). about classical music he says the more they added instruments the more mundane themes became. while it was mainly about God in the medieval period, during romantism we had operas about whores.

>>13803407
He said that every culture has a metaphysical potential for art that will eventually run out, analogizing the artist like a miner in a quarry. The Western idea of art was finished off around the 1800s, he specifically pointed to Wagner as the last great Western composer.

>>13804411
spengler right? not sorokin

>>13803180
Now read Fredy Perlman and take the Leviathanpill. It's so much worse

>>13803382
the worst part about anprim critique is that it can't shake the "durr whites bad injuns good" pieties so dearly held by white liberal academics. but then i guess a racial realist anarcho-primitivism turns into full-blown ecofascism right quick

>>13804360
>impressionistic and modern art are already a protest against the sensate art
you couldn't be more wrong friendo

>>13803180
>>13803185
>>13803297
>>13803301
>>13803317
>>13803324
>>13804677
>>13804458
>>13804439
>>13804411
>>13804360
>>13803641
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>>13803578
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>>13803407
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>>13803397


The Decline of The West is single handily the best work of sociology and philosophy I've ever read in my life. Spengler's analogies are so delectable.

>>13803407
That's is actually a take he takes from Hegel and Marx.

read BAP

>>13803317
>Microsoft is a master race organized for war

Okkkkkbuddy

>>13804677
"whites" here is more a metaphysical concept then a physical one. just read the book, man. its not a hard read at all. its not even only about america. it begins with Mesopotamia, continuous with ancient Israelite, the birth of Christianity.... this is a spiritual history of the west. whats going on today with the climate is just the outer manifestation of our own sick spiritual state. you can find this book on https://b-ok.org, and dont confuse the Author with frederick jackson turner, its a whole other animal. the book was written in 1980.

>>13804677
Creation is a work of cosmic destruction in these texts, often taking the form of a violent victory of the male gods over their female adversaries, who here exhibit that terrible face that is but one of the aspects of the Great Mother. Thus in a myth widely spread through the region, the firmament of heaven and the foundation of earth are formed of the dismembered carcass of Tiamat, the primal goddess, defeated in battle by Lord Marduk: he smashes her skull, splits her body like an oyster, and the obedient winds whisk her blood away. Little wonder that the earth was eventually perceived as hostile with such a murderous conception of it.

The triumph of the male gods guarantees the relegation of the formerly dominant goddesses to the roles of thwarted adversaries, marplots, or supernumerary helpers. We find that the mother goddess of the herd animals, Ninhursaga, becomes the demoness of the stony grounds that ring the arable soil of civilization. In a lament her own daughter asks,

". . . to whom should I compare her?/ To the bitch that has no motherly compassion. . . ."

Even in agricultural myths where originally the goddesses had been preeminent, they are now debased, as, for instance, in Sumerian mythology where the male god, Enlil, is credited with the gift of the primal tool (the pickax) for field work and construction. Thus he is made responsible for both agriculture and the culture of the city. Significantly, perhaps, Enlil's pastoralist origin is revealed by his epithetical title: the Shepherd. Sumerian mythology, so influential for the traditions of the Israelites, also shows the male god, Enki, as directly responsible for the fertility of field and farm, and it is he who guards the implements of agriculture. Only after he has called the cultivated fields into being does Enki assign the goddess Ashnan charge of them.

Buried in these awesome texts like evidence of archaic encampments beneath city walls are signs of that earlier, more harmonious agricultural way alluded to above. And within these faint vestiges, which form the deepest substratum, is to be found evidence of longings for that still older (oldest?) presedentary freedom, of that radically integrated spiritual existence of Paleolithic cultures. Thus in the greatest epic of the Near East, the epic of Gilgamesh, which Theodore Gaster has called the area's Iliad and Odyssey, we find the presedentary Paleolithic substratum in the figure of Enkidu; the fall of this man from a state of natural harmony; the debased woman as agent of the fall; and the rise of the hero of consciousness-the fully aware doer of deeds-quester, explorer, and at last tragic exemplar of mortal limitations.

>>13803180
>believing things that amount no nothing but speculation and mental masturbation
There's no hard evidence for ANYTHING the 3 aformentioned authors have said (despite the autists ITT saying otherwise).

>>13804677
The episode recounts how a huntsman out from the city accidentally discovers the natural man, Enkidu, roaming with the beasts of the field and releasing them from the huntsman's snares. Like his fellow creatures, Enkidu feeds on grasses, drinks from the stream, and beds down with the herd at night. The huntsman, terrified at the sight of this shaggy, skin-clad atavism, rushes back to the city to inform its mighty ruler/tyrant, Gilgamesh. The ruler then devises a scheme of capture, instructing the huntsman to procure a girl of the streets and take her to the place where Enkidu was seen drinking with the beasts. When the creature comes to water, the girl is to strip off her garment and entice him with her nakedness. Once he has embraced her, reasons Gilgamesh, the animals will recognize him as a human and not a fellow creature and will forsake him. Then in his loneliness the creature will be drawn to the world of men and forced to abandon his savage ways.

The plan works perfectly and Enkidu, who once released the captured beasts, is himself snared in the slim arms of the city girl. Gaster translates the result:

"For a whole week he dallied with her, until at last, sated with her charms, he arose to rejoin the herd. But the hinds and gazelles knew him no more for one of their own, and when he approached them they shied away and scampered off. Enkidu tried to run after them, but even as he ran he felt his legs begin to drag and his limbs grow taut, and all of a sudden he became aware that he was no longer a beast but had become a man. "

In this figure is a microcosmic record of the succession of one stage of mythology and culture by another, for his fate now lies in the city of men and not in the fields of animal freedom. From it he will go forth with Gilgamesh into what has become for him the wilderness to test himself against the decrees of the gods. And in the wilderness he will die, estranged from his old home.

>>13804677
"[as for] the rest of the people: guided by the guardian spirits . . . I now . . . ploughed those people under alive. Their flesh I fed to the dogs, pigs, vultures, eagles-the birds of heaven and the fishes of the deep. I took the corpses of the people . . . who had laid down their lives through hunger and famine and the remains of the dog and pig feed, which blocked the streets and filled the broad avenues; those bones [I took] out of Babylon, Kutha, and Sippar and threw them on heaps. "

This mythology of power fed upon itself, its achievements, and the margins thus created between men and their environment. What we witness then is an early and crucial instance of the technological impulse becoming an affective substitute for the mythological, supplying some of the questions and some of the answers that had once been referred to the authority of myth. Significantly, Mumford and V. Gordon Childe see the explosion of technics at this stage as the greatest until our own time. The walled city is itself the cumulative artifact, lying, as an ancient tablet tells us, like a storm cloud on the horizon. The wall, as Mumford so rightly observes, is not merely a physical entity but a "spiritual boundary of even greater significance, for it preserved those within from the chaos and formless evil that encompassed them." What lay beyond the walls became by emerging definition something other and less than civilization; peoples who lived outside the walls became by that placement less than civilized, objects of hatred, fear, and derision. And so a fragment of a Sumerian myth describing in contemptuous terms some nomadic Semites who wandered beyond the city of Sumer portends future civilized attitudes toward other wilderness peoples. Martu, a god of these nomads, wishes to marry a goddess of the city, but her handmaidens attempt to dissuade her thus:

"He lives in tents, buffeted by wind and rain,
Eats uncooked meat,
Has no house while he lives,
Is not brought to burial when he dies."

>>13803180
There is only one book to save you: The bible.

>>13805011
actually the bible God, Yahweh, is the anti nature God.

>The separation from nature and myth and the commitment to history is emphasized more dramatically and with greater political and cultural results in the new religion's monotheistic character. Though possibly there had been parallel conceptions among other peoples-and Freud based an entire theory of Jewish history on the short-lived monotheism of Amenhotepllkhnaton of Egypt's Eighteenth Dynasty, whence he claimed the captive nation derived the idea-it was the Israelites who established monotheism in the spiritual geography of humankind. And with it came the terrible concomitants of intolerance and commandments to destroy the sacred items of others (Exodus 23:23- 24; 34:13-16) and to "utterly destroy" polytheistic peoples wherever encountered. Deuteronomy 7:16 commands the holy nation to "consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods. . . ." And Deuteronomy 13:16 goes so far as to specify that entire pagan cities must be offered up as burnt sacrifices to the one god, as odors pleasing to him. For polytheism is like imagery connected to nature in its concrete particulars and in its numina. It is for this reason that whatever savageries primitive peoples have visited upon one another, they have usually feared to desecrate idols and altars: there was felt to be too much power in these things, and besides, the gods of one people were quite often recognizable to their adversaries. This goes far to explain why the conception of genocide is foreign to polytheistic cultures. But the distinctions raised in the covenant between religion and idolatry are like some visitation of the khamsin to wilderness peoples as yet unsuspected, dark clouds over Africa, the Americas, the Far East, until finally even the remotest islands and jungle enclaves are struck by fire and sword and by the subtler weapon of conversion-by-ridicule (Deuteronomy 2:34; 7:2; 20:16-18, Joshua 6:17-21

>>13805011
Moreover, in a curious way the very oneness, the singularity, of this god emphasizes the separation from nature, for though he created the earth and claims all of it as his, yet he is not to be found everywhere in it: not in the primal chaos at its edges, nor in the cities of the idolators, nor in the deserts given over to demons. Light, truth, and holiness are to be enjoyed only where the god dwells, and he chooses to tabernacle exclusively in the camp of his people, thereby establishing a center of civilization beyond the boundaries of which lie darkness and death, a wilderness peopled with beasts, bestial pagans, and their theriomorphic deities. If the city in the ancient Near East is an oasis, the camp of these semi-nomads serves the same function and defines in the charged terms of religion the chasm between what lies within and what beyond. Thus in Leviticus 16:7-10, 20-22 are found the ritual prescriptions for sending the scapegoat bearing the tribal sins out of the god's camp into the wilderness, the territory of his adversary, Azazel. Thus too the charred corpses of the sons of Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, who unlawfully offered a fire of incense to the god and perished for it; they must be dumped outside the boundaries of the camp where all ritually polluted things are to be thrown (Leviticus 10:1,2,4,5; Numbers 5:1-4; Deuteronomy 23:10-14). And so, though the tribes are now traveling through the heart of the wilderness, they are not really in it but are instead insulated by the god against it. Under no circumstances are they to surrender to it or to its temptations. This, of course, is what they continually threaten to do, for the wilderness tempts to disobedience, to riot and rebellion with its hardships, its disorderliness, its radical naturalness.

>>13804681
thats what sorokin says bruv

>>13805011
Fuck you

I hope small-brain butterfly faggot dies tomorrow.

>>13805298
Pushing the bible on this guy is very small brained

you just have to mention, religion, God or the bible, in order to boringfly show up.

>>13805268
>>13805339
why do you tripcode if you don't have enough charisma seriously. your gimmick is the attempt of being annoying but even that you dont accomplish. that's not even funny

Im in the same boat as you op. My state of mind in the past couple of months has been deteriorating rapidly. My psychological experience has basically been a mixture of defeatism, despair and increasing alienation on one hand , and sprouts of energy and conviction to change things on the other (Mainly after i lift). Only to be reminded that there is nothing that i really can do to alter the trajectory life is headed towads. Its like watching a train approaching an impenetrable wall while being bound to your seat unable to do anything about it.

>>13805459
I agree completely, I actually like tripfags because they have interesting unorthodox views but buttershit is just shit

>>13805705
I'm with you there dude. I've been drinking every other day now, and I never used to do that. I just smoke and drink and try to feel some kind of renewed hope for my life through inspirational media by osmosis

>>13804360
Wait so he's saying that art will return to religion?

Because that's the feeling I've had. There's nowhere left for it to go

>>13803180
Lmao this guy yelled at his girlfriend about "the inherent satanism of technology" and shit. You seem like the product of a narcissistic intellectualism. Do you think it's probable that your girlfriend took your outburst as evidence that you care less about her wellbeing than you do about your vulnerable fantasies of alternately fulfilling or squandering some grand human purpose.

>>13806071
not only art, but the cosmovision, yes. once we reach the bottom there's nowhere else to go but up. happened many times in history before. we are at the very crisis that precedes the cultural change.

>>13806115
>once we reach the bottom there's nowhere else to go but up.
we miiiight go extinct by doing something like nuking ourselves, you know. No way to recover much from that.

>>13806115
What makes you so sure there's a bottom to the rot and that it can be identified when it's seen? Sounds like misplaced optimism.

>>13806115
>cosmovision
Which is what exactly?

So he's saying the general zeitgeist will return to religion? Could this be Spengler's "second religiosity"?

I wonder if this would mean that art would return to just being religion themed

>>13806101
all of us have nuked a relationship by sperging out about based+redpilled topics at least once

kaczynski depressed me too: the more he went on, the more i was convinced he killed people for lunatic reasons.

not big brain. just criminally insane.

>>13806144
>kaczynski depressed me too: the more he went on, the more i was convinced he killed people for lunatic reasons.
Wasn't he part of an MK Ultra experiment or something?

I haven't read him because I don't like reading things from people who were insane

>>13803361

> implying technology, globalism, and megacorps wont keep up western culture.

>>13803641

Only thing to be is pessimistic. You think the people are gonna shoot for change? What in modern society has shown you that. They are literally part of the problem for being so susceptible. And technology just gives the elite more power and control.

>>13803180

I understand you op. It's highkey frustrating because even 4chan seems to ignore the problem every time you bring it up. Either that or they call for bullshit like the bible and waiting for some collapse that won't ever happen.

>>13806205
collapse cult shenanigans is a palliative as much as cooming, vidya, and transhumanism are. haha a-any day now bros...

>>13806209

exactly.

So everything I'm seeing is telling me we're just shit out of luck. Might as well kill myself

>>13803180
heidegger. always heidegger

>>13806213
Even Heidegger was talking like a calamity was just around the corner in his 50's lectures

as I always say, the only radically autonomous acts left are suicide, asceticism, or violence

>>13806155
whatever helps you sleep at night

>>13806222
>Even Heidegger was talking like a calamity was just around the corner in his 50's lectures
Really? Where did he do that?

>>13806230
His What is Called Thinking? lectures, he says we've reached a tipping point that can't go on much longer... but here we are, 2019, worse than ever

>>13806222
>right around the corner

Heidegger was willing to bet everything on a global final showdown giga-war to save humanity from the pincers Anglo-Americanized techno-rationalization in the West and Sino-Bolshevik techno-rationalization in the East already in 1930. Postwar he thinks we're so fucked that we're basically dealing with a "how can we preserve a few embers underneath the coming nightmare, so that a thousand thousand years from now humanity can rise again" scenario. Read his letters with Junger, they both think we're fucked.

Late capitalism has been completely successful in deracinating people and turning everyone into a fucking moron who can't read (and who is drowned in a billion bazillion alternative "theories" and academicized jargon manuals whenever he accidentally feels an inclination to read, so that he perceives the history of philosophy as an endless and pointless farrago of competing systems and ideas with no rhyme or reason to it, which is exactly what it WASN'T and exactly the opposite of what most people thought up until 1945). Back in the '30s everyone knew we were living in apocalyptic times, everyone knew something had to be done, and something would be done, that the chips would be down no matter what. Nobody could possibly have imagined in the time of Spengler's writing that people would simply forget, that even the powers that be could be as successful as they have been in astroturfing human consciousness and creating a real world version of the Matrix.

We're living in a fake "2020 update" of the 1920s naive illusion of perpetual bourgeois capitalism. That's what the Matrix is. It's not even updated all that much. You're being forced to live out the same century again and again while humanity is converted to permanent serfdom underneath, at levels no one ever thought possible before, because now they're invading the brain itself with technology, now they're modifying and erasing entire populations and world-historical civilizations by deracinating and mixing them up, soon they will be genetically modifying "worker" clades of the human population, soon they will be able to (if they aren't already) cull huge sections of the "redundant" population covertly or with official mandate.

The one thing we have going for us is that they are so completely overconfident that they've failed to anticipate spontaneous revolt. We might not have a state apparatus willing to help us like we might have had back before WW2, but we have flows and currents we can maybe direct and harness. Might be a whole master-slave dialectic recapitulating itself here, with the technocrats becoming too distant in their overconfidence.

>>13806249
Great post, I agree with every word. I'd love to read more if you decide to write more.

Do you happen to have a link to those letters, by the way?

have this table i translated for you
>>13806131
the predominant world view
>>13806130
>Sounds like misplaced optimism.
isn't spengler's view of history one of the few that are pessimistic? don't most of historical typologies deal with a period after what some call the kali yuga? in sorokin's view there's only alternation between the 3 types of world views. see pic

>>13806234
"much longer" can mean a 100 years. will tthis civilization make it to 2050? hard to tell.... just think of last years massive crop failures in the US. and remember, there is still ice in the north pole. ones that shit is gone no more air conditioning for you, come back in a 20,000 years, NEXT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-QenYgC8oM

>>13806256
a.C = before Christ b.C, mind you

>>13806257
Another 100 years of ecocide, cultural and moral decay, a recursively improving control system, globalist eugenics, oh god...

>>13806249

> The one thing we have going for us is that they are so completely overconfident that they've failed to anticipate spontaneous revolt.

won't matter if you have the general populace thinking those people are crazy and the future populace being setup to just function as slaves.

>>13806269
smile for the camera, silly mammal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oJqJkfTdAg

>>13806277
and i meant 100 years since he made his statement back in 1952.

just look at the state of the world ffs how much time more this shit can last ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50tikJgYshk

>>13803297
Art is not dead, just controlled by capitalism. If you search beyond what’s shilled to you, you will find great art.

>>13806338
Oh of course, I know many great contemporary classical composers

Nobody else knows them outside of a tiny circle though, and nobody cares. That’s the problem. High art or music is not in the zeitgeist of the human psyche, because it has already accomplished what it set out to accomplish according to Spengler

Now it’s just a pleasurable commodity like a nice looking piece of furniture

>>13806349
good art can still be found. just today i watched Francis Bacon's portraits, good shit

actually, Jacques Ellul is a lot like that portrait. even tho he talks pretty calmly he scream inside like Bacon's "The Screaming Pope"

that what a true intellectual does, scream like like an animal before slaughter. that what we are now. animal for the slaughter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOCtu-rXfPk

>>13804411
>Wagner
>last great composer
Spengler retard confirmed

>>13806349
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7qhGoVQPbo

>>13803407
>nothing on the magnitude of Wagner
Jesus is /lit/ really this ignorant on music?

>>13806385
>>13806390
yikes. im sorry for your taste. that's objectively shitty art

>>13806409
look up his shit on google images my nigga, that's the truth of the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYLj1_PaPHA

>>13806421
i looked up. what could be worse than the portrait genre? a portrait mockery with some expressionist shit. that art is 100% a product of our time

>>13806409
How do?

>>13806433
i dont know what to tell ya...

this type of art appeals to the senses more than the photorealistic academic art. it's satanic for it puts feelings above the intellect. art is not about making you feel x or y. this is the entire state of art since the beginning of modernity

>>13806385
>>13806390
Looks like tryhard shit made by an edgy 15 year old, absolutely awful.

>>13806464
>satanic

>>13806469
Not a valid criticism

>>13806471
that's precisely what im criticizing. how does that make me a fedora? i was not making an eulogy. that shit is satanic and satanic pieces can never be art since they are limited to a certain audience

>>13806464
lol you got it all backward...art IS supposed to appeal to the emotions. why do you think Plato wanted to banish the artists from his republic? becouse the artists is like a magician shooting of Affects, affections are things that you cant control easily... they run wild.. unlike technology that wants to channel everything.

ever seen a parson having a panic attack on an airplane? that's affects

>>13806489
>art IS supposed to appeal to the emotions
absolutely not. art is about the depiction of immortal truths
>why do you think Plato wanted to banish the artists from his republic?
he was criticizing exactly the artists that appeal to the senses

don't get the hierarchy of being wrong, anon. the intellect is supposed to rule over the psyche. what you are saying is that art is meant to appeal to the psyche. that's blatant satanism

All three of them are of the mark because they are not willing to name the bourgeoisie or capitalism's role in the current situation.
>>13806299
Look at this shit especially. He keeps blaming "technological society" for causing unemployment but the problem specifically is capitalism. Say what you want about the soviet union, but it didn't have unemployment

>>13806249
>pointless farrago of competing systems and ideas with no rhyme or reason to it, which is exactly what it WASN'T
What was it then?

>>13803180
stop fighting it

>>13806508
kek, the problem is ontological and not merely techno-economic, we're fucked, humans just can't live in systems of this scale and complexity, that's it, simple as that

>>13806502
the devil is of the earth... after all....

The conscious effort of these Desert Fathers, as well as the legends, orders, and systems of devotion that the Church would subsequently fashion from their example, was to recapitulate the desert trials of the Israelites, only this time to be equal to them through the New Dispensation of the Redeemer (Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-13). The aim once again was to resist the temptations and terrors of unhallowed lands. `Here abide men,' as Helen Waddell quotes one of their chroniclers, `perfect in holiness (for so terrible a place can be endured by none save those of absolute resolve and supreme constancy). . . .' This wilderness, like that of old, was the fitting abode of all dark things unsponsored by God, perhaps ruled over by the Evil One. Thus Anthony was once confronted by a Hippocentaur, a bestial being that ground out some barbarous answer to a question the saint put to it:

"And indeed whether the devil had assumed this shape to terrify him, or whether (as might be) the desert that breeds monstrous beasts begat this creature also, we have no certain knowledge. "

Macarius' daybreak meeting with the Evil One suggests that the first possibility is more likely:

" . . . and the Evil One feinted at him with his sickle, but could not reach him, and began to cry out on Macarius for the violence he did him. "Yet whatever thou dost, I do also and more. Thou dost fast now and then, but by no food am I ever refreshed: thou dost often keep vigil, but no slumber ever falls upon me. In one thing only Bost thou overmaster me." And when the saint asked what that might be, "In thy humility." And the saint fell on his knees-it may be to repel this last and subtlest temptation-and the devil vanished into the air."

But there were even greater temptations than this because in the silence of these wastes they were so much nearer. Anthony at the desert's edge beyond Cairo was visited constantly by the Devil, who reminded him that his body was weak and time was long, and who visited him with lascivious thoughts. At night, as the eremite lay locked in the iron sweat of his resolution, the Devil would come to him in the form of a ravishing woman, conversing of fornication. Legend tells us that this saint became so ashamed of having a body at all that each time he ate or satisfied any other bodily need he would blush.

>>13806502
Or hear Jerome, this maker of the Vulgate Bible, violating himself, set so hard against so much of life, echoing here job in the deserts of the soul:

"Oh, how many times did I, set in the desert, in that vast solitude parched with the fires of the sun that offers a dread abiding to the monk, how often did I think myself back in the old Roman enchantments. There I sat solitary, full of bitterness; my disfigured limbs shuddered away from the sackcloth, my dirty skin was taking on the hue of the Ethiopian's flesh: every day tears, every day sighing: and if in spite of my struggles sleep would tower over and sink upon me, my battered body ached on the naked earth. Of food and drink I say nothing, since even a sick monk uses only cold water, and to take anything cooked is a wanton luxury. Yet that same I, who for fear of hell condemned myself to such a prison, I, the comrade of scorpions and wild beasts, was there, watching the maidens in their dances: my face haggard with fasting, my mind burnt with desire in my frigid body, and the fires of lust alone leaped before a man prematurely dead. So, destitute of all aid, I used to lie at the feet of Christ, watering them with my tears, wiping them with my hair, struggling to subdue my rebellious flesh with seven days' fasting."

"I grew to dread even my cell, with its knowledge of my imaginings; and grins and angry with myself, would set out solitary to explore the desert. . . ."

In various ways these men took terrible vengeance on themselves in the hope of winning holiness, and the Church conferred sainthood on them and so made example of their mortifications. Some sat atop pillars for years; others wore hair shirts or heavy chains that blazed in the desert sun. Dodds records the melancholy finding of a skeleton in the Egyptian desert, clad only in its girdle of iron links, its last prison house. Others, after the manner attributed to Origen, castrated themselves. Some immured themselves in packing cases, caves, tombs. Some starved while their fellows fed like animals on wild grasses and lived without shelter. Fools for Christ's sake, they said they were, or God's athletes in strenuous training. A fourth-century canon law was necessary to check the growing popularity of self-mutilation, and at the end of that century, so Waddell tells us, a traveler through Egypt and Palestine estimated that these desert dwellers about equaled the population of the towns. And so far had the faith traveled from its mythological beginnings, so fiercely did it now set itself against the natural and all religions grounded in nature, that one of these Desert Fathers, Rufinus of Aquileia, could describe his encounter with cave drawings of ancient animal deities as an engagement with the very essence of that evil he had been sent to the desert to combat

>>13806528
>>13806532
whats your point?

>>13806525
If we can't live in it then how was it possible for us to create it?

>>13806502
so you see, the devil according to Christianity resides in the earth (deserts, forests, animals) but also in the body (woman wanting to fuck you) or your own body, your own earthly, mortal, ANIMAL body... the devil is the God of nature, of the "wilderness"... "nature is the church of the Devil" unlike God who is the lord of reason, progress, the city, civilization, history...

>>13806542
What the fuck does this even mean, I can create a prison doesn't mean I'm made to live in it

>>13806538
this is my point>>13806546

It was, of course, the Church that accomplished most of the executions, here as elsewhere showing itself ruthless in its opposition to popular religion and zealous to proclaim each repression a new victory for Christ. The allegations involved in this phenomenon add their telling comment on the deep disease of this antinatural religion, for with obsessive regularity the Church charged the sects (as it did all unbelievers) with sexual perversions and identified the heretical ones with all things natural, earthy, animal. They were beasts, toads, fornicators, sodomites, lovers of bestiality. The term "bugger," used to refer to heretics and/or sodomites, may be a corruption of "Bulgar," from which area one of the more offensive sects, the Cathari, were thought to have entered and infected civilization. It was routinely charged that the sects were presided over in their frolics by that arch-sodomite, the Devil, depicted (again) as a beast of earth and perhaps even possessed of a forked penis enabling him to commit fornication and sodomy simultaneously.

In point of fact, however, with a few striking exceptions the only bodily excesses these renegade groups seem to have been guilty of were those of self-torment, for flagellation was often associated with these movements. The spectacle Cohn gives us of hundreds of worshipers beating the blood out on their bodies with spiked scourges and then drinking the spilled gore as the wine of a new communion is a pathetic illustration of the lengths humans will travel when their religion robs them of the earthy, the fleshly; when they feel compelled to strive, in whatever twisted ways, to feel again the earth, flesh, blood.

>>13806542

lol. wut.

>>13806546
look man, you should really read this book called Beyond Geography: The Western Against The Wilderness

find it on b-ok,org

it will explain everything to you. its pretty "satanic" alright. but its fun....

>>13806552
I get that Yahweh is basically a deified Leviathan (the constellation of reason, civilization, "progress", as you said...) but what IS a person to do if they can't stand living in its entrails but know nothing else? Me trying to repair my relationship with the "earthly, the fleshly" so late in the game would be so pathetic

>>13806546
wrong. that's gnosticism: spirit good, matter evil. God sustains nature and all reality. You can keep quoting that misinterpretation of the church fathers all you want. They are plain wrong and i can assure you these quotes can only be found in the book you are taking them from (beyond geography). There's a big difference between the "world" in the gospel of John and the enviroment we live in. If you can't tell them I can't discuss with you.

>>13806562
i get what your saying, and here's my answer. you should become a savage within the city, a barbarian really. you should hold very dear the memory of the savage, the Indians, Walter Benjamin talked about this in his "thesis on the philosophy of history"

the memory of the defeated should make you wrack havoc upon the enemy.... im not joking or larping, its a very serious idea...

"The dead don’t want revenge, we want our
dreams back. We, who have outlived you, we, who will dance on all
your graves"

we must seek revenge, there is a good text talking about it

Today the barbarians no longer camp at the gates of the City. They already find themselves inside it, because they were born in it. There are no longer cold lands of the North or barren steppes of the East from which to start the invasion. It is necessary to recognize that the barbarians arise from the ranks of the imperial subjects themselves. In other words, the barbarians are everywhere. For ears accustomed to the language of the polis, it is easy to recognize them, because when they express themselves, they stammer. But there is no need to let oneself be fooled by the incomprehensible sound of their voices; there is no need to confuse the one without a language with the one who speaks a different language.

Many barbarians really are deprived of a recognizable language, rendered illiterate by the suppression of their individual awareness — a consequence of the extermination of meaning carried out by the Empire. If one does not know how to talk, it is because one does not know what to say, and vice versa. And one does not know what and how to speak because everything has been banalized, reduced to mere symbol, to appearance. Meaning, which was considered one of the greatest sources of revolt, a radiant fount of energy, has been eroded in the course of the past few decades by a whole company of imperial functionaries (for example, the French structuralist school so dear to the two emissaries). They have shattered, pulverized and minced it in every sphere of knowledge. Ideas that expound and incite to transformative action have been cancelled and replaced by opinions that comment and rivet in conservative contemplation. Where there was once a jungle full of danger because it was wild and luxuriant, a desert has been created. And what does one say, what does one do, in the midst of a desert?

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/crisso-and-odoteo-barbarians-the-disordered-insurgence#toc12

>>13806562
in other words we should never thing about some Utopian sweet future. we should always thing of our dead. we should be the're resurrection. the spirit of the dead "savages" should enter us fully. every single buffalo, flower, tree, mountain, polluted river, lake, every fucking leaf sould be avenged.

there is nothing more horrified to the enemy then finding out that his children joined the enemy he fought so hard to eliminate.

we should all paint our faces red, black, green, and absolutely destroy this cadaver civilization. and we should do it armed first of all with memory. this system wants to eliminate memory.

>>13806578
Thank you, I feel like it's fate that I discovered your posts tonight. Got some personal stuff going on. That passage is especially resonant for me, it took me years to realize the reason I can be so quiet in some social situations is because they're just not stimulating at all. Might as well ask me to get excited reading Clifford in my 30's. Anyways.

Any other literature on this topic? What do you, personally, do? I hate this machine I was born into. In the 90s at least there was still a life in the air, now it's just so grim, and whoever doesn't agree usually sounds like they've been huffing helium (I live in the city, males are so estrogenized here it's unbelievable)

>>13806561
if only you were aware of the link between enviromentalist causes and demonic activity, anon. As I said, the book is not being faithful to the primary sources, nor it is presenting the orthodox view of christianity. It's a lie.

We got to this after you said "art IS supposed to appeal to the emotions" which is the psychic reduction of art. For you to maintain that you'll have to state as well that, historically, art only exists modernity (or in renaissance, pre-homeric and classical greece)

>>13806588
Man, whenever I pass by graveyards I always think of the bodies in the ground, and why I happen to be the one on this side. In a way I really am the eyes and ears of the dead.

I don't think it wants to eliminate memory wholesale, it just wants to myopize it, the only memory allowed is the memory of civilization's birth, anything else must either be superfluous or romanticized

>>13806588
Fucking based post. Anything writings or videos that get you in this mind-set? I like smoking a blunt when I'm feeling shitty and vulnerable and watching PETA videos.

I have had a similar crisis from reading too much Nietzsche, Marx and their french descendants. I work as an engineer and now I simply see my work as the destruction of humanity.

But, I persist, living in hope of the eventual ascension of man, of the final resolution of the contradictions that strangle and rape our species. And I am plotting to transition to dedicating my work towards this.

Remember. The prisoner who simply lashes out and attacks the guard or hangs himself is not brave or useful. The one who is secretly working to help carry out a rebellion while enduring his torture is.

>>13806588
>he likes satanic art >>>>13806489
>he defends some anti-human enviromentalism (as demons have been doing) >>13806578
>he is totally subject to his anima/psyche with satanic ideas >>13806588
probably smokes weed as >>13806604 does
>the spirit of the dead "savages" should enter us fully. every single buffalo, flower, tree, mountain, polluted river, lake, every fucking leaf sould be avenged.
you better start believing in demonic influence. you are under one.

for your own good seek Our Lord Jesus.

>>13806629
Shut up brainlet

We have commies, cavemen and christcucks all claiming they have a cure yet no one to defend our current hegemony

No one does. Because we all know its shit. What does the future hold? Our parents would defend this system but we dont.

>>13806621
Sounds like a cope to me

>>13806634
yeah im the brainlet, yet you are the one who defends art's goal being the appeal to senses. braindead potheads under demonic influence. every fucking time

this thread turned into another evidence for how enviromentalist causes are linked with demonic activity. i'll be saving this as pdf

>>13806621

> living in hope of the eventual ascension of man

which will look like?

> And I am plotting to transition to dedicating my work towards this.

how so?

>>13806578
>>13806588

Still don't see the point when they increasingly control the media, censor anything against their plans, forcibly control medication, education, and therefore our children.

>>13806646
anti-human environmentalism is basically angelic at this point, not demonic, you're one of those cretinous christians who can't stomach to look at the suffering around you

>>13806655
lmao the absolute state of protties

what's next, anti-globalism is demonic activity?

>>13806659
there's nothing angelic about anti-human ideas. it's purely satanic. do you really think non fallen angels would support anything anti-human?
>anti-human environmentalism is basically angelic at this point
yeah you hope
>>13806661
not a protestant. and no

>>13806669
>there's nothing angelic about anti-human ideas. it's purely satanic

>anthropocentrism is god-sanctioned, man is privileged above nature to do with it what he wills

lmao, pride cometh before the fall faggot. way to prove the other guy's point

>>13803180
take the yuk hui pill

>>13806677
>way to prove the other guy's point
how so? how did i prove anti-human ideas can be angelic? you are smoking too much weed

>>13806684
i'm literally allergic to Heidegger. please tldr him for me

>>13806694
Wanton abuse of creation is the very dehumanization you claim to be against. You seem to not be able to make a distinction between the environmentalism of the humanists which is indeed anti-human at its core and man's duty as the steward and high priest of creation. You're a prot whether you think so or not.

>>13806734
i never advocated for the abuse of creation. it's that anon (or you) who is defending anti-human enviromentalism with some crazy ideas such as
>"the spirit of the dead "savages" should enter us fully. every single buffalo, flower, tree, mountain, polluted river, lake, every fucking leaf sould be avenged."
and
>"we should all paint our faces red, black, green, and absolutely destroy this cadaver civilization."
from the same person who was badly influenced by a book that lies about the church fathers. same person who says anti-human enviromentalism is "angelic" at this point.

>You're a prot whether you think so or not.
i've been fully initiated in the church built on peter and partake in its sacraments.

>"anti-human environmentalism is basically angelic at this point"

>>13806779
>christian defending a secular techno-scientific civilization

defending this civilization IS advocating for the abuse of creation you fucking prottie retard

Spengler is gay, read wyndham lewis and marshall Mcluhan they are the ones who directly influenced ted ks ideology and also thought spengler was a retard

>>13806790
i dont defend this civilization. im well aware of its decline based on spengler, toynbee, sorokin, guenon etc. what you are saying is:
>if you dont want its destruction you are defending it
the cyclical nature of history takes its course. stop falling for the zeitgeist or trying to fight it

>>13806816
even christ harassed the moneychangers in the temple you spineless git

>>13806824
Yes because they were profaning the temple, the SACRED SPACE. His kingdom is not of the world. I am not of the world. This "revolt against the modern world" of yours is legitimate but to advocate the destruction is different.

>>13806839
So the world this civilization is raping is not sacred and doesn't deserve divine intervention, but advocating for the destruction of this civilization is not legitimate because anti-humanism is demonic? I'm done.

>>13806844
>This civilization is raping the natural world
no

>>13806865
This is bait, right?

>>13803180
If Kaczynski strikes you as either deep or informed or persuasive then your soft head is going to get you into trouble no matter what i tell you.

>>13806816
>stop falling for the zeitgeist
How is defending this machinery not the "zeitgeist"
>A christian advocating for reason and intellect
The christian narrative requires a lot of emotion, maybe emotion is the only thing it requires even

>>13806870
im a biologist (although i dont work as one). there were some colleagues who would fall for the alarmist meme, but i see reality as it is. worst thing happening is the amount of roadkills, which is sad, yes, but the natural world is not being raped.

>>13806881
>>13806889
>The christian narrative requires a lot of emotion, maybe emotion is the only thing it requires even
you are kidding right? Christian's are always vigilant to not let emotions rule over the spiritus or pneuma (where dwells the divine spark). When that happens we fall for the sins. Christians to not have a belief (which is subject to the emotions, as the new age spiritisme) but a revealed truth kept by tradition.

>>13806898
Kek, factory farming is an industrialized holocaust and you're giving me the "hohoho, objective science man on the scene" spiel.

>>13806903
im against that as well. im a vegetarian and i hate modern science (guenon is spot on when he talks about science) we might have more in common than you thinnk bruv

>>13806913
All right, fair enough

Spengler's circular account of history is simply wrong, history is better understood by means of technical advancement and its organization. Marx was right about this point, although his self-fulfilling prophecy regarding the proletariat wasn't.

>>13806933
>Spengler's circular account of history is simply wrong,
he was wrong on the organic cycle of a civilization. history is circular though

>>13806898
>you are kidding right? Christian's are always vigilant to not let emotions rule over the spiritus or pneuma (where dwells the divine spark).
What does that even mean? If i hit you in the face you stay there, not even a grimace
>Christians to not have a belief (which is subject to the emotions, as the new age spiritisme) but a revealed truth kept by tradition.
And that's your belief, as if "tradition" is not filled with meaningless symbolic actions with the sole purpose of making an elite, which have being the bane of the world though most of history.

>>13806937
It will be proven circular if we do have some sort of technological cataclysm, go back to being authentic and just end up developing shit all over again.

>>13806933
the cycle of culture -> civilization reproduces itself historically as the cycle of antiquity -> modernity. its cycles within cycles, marx is perfectly compatible with a cyclical view of the cosmos, y'all niggers are dumb

>>13806941
means it's through the intellect that we reach God, not the psyche. There's a difference between religion and belief, especially in christianity when faith is a gift from God and independent of our will (perseverance is dependent on our will though).

Tonight I'll include you in my prayers, poster of 13806941 from lit.

>tfw kacyznskiellulspenglerfag in my last year of mechanical engineering degree

But how can the Empire — synonymous with a social order based on tyranny and arrogance, cause of cruelty and suffering — manage to make itself loved by its subjects? It imposes control with weapons. It obtains consent with blandishments. If the Empire wants to instill its reasons into its subjects with the aim of making them accept and appreciate these reasons, it must play tricks, having recourse to the aid of emissaries. Those who shine only in the art of adulation are certainly not among the most cunning since they would quickly be unmasked for what they are — servants among servants. No, such a complex and delicate task could only be brought to term by those who know how to display the limits of imperial order. Biting observations with regard to the Empire always fascinate the quarrelsome subjects who are drawn into a fictitious complicity by these emissaries and therefore don’t realize that the critique of imperfection is functional to the achievement of perfection, transforming the Empire from something we need to get rid of into something we need to correct but that we cannot do without.

>>13806955
Yeah, because a belief that no one else have would be schizophrenia right? In the end you are the one who believes in demonic talking serpents from 6000 years ago

>>13803180
ride the tiger, nigga. society is going to shit if it's not there already, might as well enjoy your stay but don't let your soul go to waste

>>13803180
Convert to Orthodox Christianity (not gutted protestantism/catholicism)

Put not your trust in temporal things but in the eternal and the pursuit of virtue. Monks literally live a based as fuck life that if the rest of society emulated (plus marriage and children) would produce the best society yet

>>13806979
>tfw bioengineerfag luddite

>>13803180
That's what you get for treating a woman like an intellectual partner.

>>13803180
>You retards, you need to cure me. You are responsible for this because you recommended me this type of literature.
If you keep being as based as this you might just transcend the problem by becoming Chad.

>>13803297
Is that you, Aarvoll?

>>13803396
it's the continuation of the empire of the west what will produce (is producing right now) the disintegration of western people. we are literally safer in the hands of the chinese.

>>13803297
I’m an artist and share your sentiment

>>13806933
Marx only saw history from the perspective of 19th century England and that's why his predictions were all wrong. The progression from feudalism to capitalism only happened in the West, it has no meaning for the Chinese or Romans, who had their own economic systems. Spengler studied history from a global perspective and his predictions were much more accurate. Also he saw capitalism as the final, terminal, economic phase of the West, unlike Marx who stuck to a typically Western linear theory of history where capitalism is just another stepping stone to progress.

I think you don't need a book try talking with your parents or something. Talk to your girl friend too but in person.

>>13806796
>and also thought spengler was a retard
What did they disagree with spengler on?

>>13806349
Can you name some good contemporary composers? I only know one guy

>>13803180
Tech is not inherently evil. You are just bring nostalgic. You dwell in the Past. Let it go and shape the future. Everything else is just juvenile. Politics not technology determines our lives. How about a web without Ads. How about the abolition of cars. How about strict environmental protection etc. Don't give way to fatalistic paranoia like Ellul, Ted and Spengy.

>>13806933
>lmfao dude just turn your brain off whig history bro!
You cannot solve social problems with technology.

>>13806944
Why would it happening again mean anything? We're already nearing another completion of the cycle. How many cycles will it take for you to admit it? Two? Three? A million? Spengler, and cyclic-historians as a whole, never deny that human understanding of the universe changes and that the breadth of humanity's knowledge expands, but that, again, doesn't impact the fundamental crux of the problem: social, human problems.

Knowing how to make more food doesn't solve the problem of hunger.

>>13806249
High quality post

>>13806388
Last great composer as in he united the entire German people with his music, he was one of the last classical composers appreciated by the majority and not small hipster cliques

>>13806205
>only thing to be is pessimistic...
But nobody is happy. People keep searching for new answers in this system: mindfulness and bastardized versions of eastern spirituality are the corporations’ answer to it, so that people become encouraged to derive peace and focus on their own emotional stability, while ignoring reality. However, this is also an inadequate solution for people, because they will continue to face situations that force them back into modernity. Lots of people have been expressing sentiments about the world being divided, people not willing to address reality, the psychological and physical abuse of propagators of modernity on people, the looming environmental disasters, etc. at the same time, there are people expressing nihilistic beliefs in the face of this pessimism that nothing can be done to justify their lack of action — however, such an explanation fails to resolve one’s despair, for it fails to address why one feels on a deep level that modernity is wrong. What I’m saying is that, people are seeking the answers that change is possible and they want to know how to do it. Change in this instance is merely the result of connection with the people in power responsible for this situation in order to convince them to change their ways or to connect with less corrupted people and to help elevate them to power. Social movements have had success in the past, and there’s no reason why we can’t have one now

>>13803180
Weakling.

>If while in a railway carriage or steamer someone who has taken the first steps towards initiation wants to find his way into the spiritual world in meditation, he naturally makes efforts to develop the power of vision and seership which will bear him thither; but he perceives how the Ahrimanic world fills him with everything that opposes this striving to reach the spiritual world, and the battle then waged is intensely fierce. It is an inner battle, producing in the etheric body an experience of being crushed, hacked to pieces. Naturally, those who have taken no steps on the way to initiation are also involved in this battle, the only difference being that those who have taken these steps are consciously aware of what is happening. Everybody is obliged to undergo the battle; in its effects it is experienced by everybody. There would be no greater fallacy than to say: We must rebel against what technical science has brought to us in modern life, we must protect ourselves from Ahriman, we must withdraw from this modern life.

>In a certain respect such an attitude would be an indication of spiritual cowardice. The real remedy lies, not in allowing the forces of the soul to weaken and to withdraw from modern life, but in so strengthening these forces that its pandemonium can be endured. World-karma demands a courageous attitude to modern life, and that is why genuine Spiritual Science calls at the very outset for effort, really strenuous effort on the part of the human soul.

https://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19141228p01.html

>>13808464
Your “tech without tears” approach isn’t new, in fact it’s the dominant ideology of the West. Sorry but while you’re still trying to balance out problems caused by technologies from a century ago, they’ve already given birth to thousands of new complications, many of which we’re not even aware of at present. You’re trying to control a hydra while at the same time nourishing it, fattening it up to utterly monstrous proportions

>>13807034
>just ride the tiger who gives a shit man hurr durr
God just let this meme die already it's brainlet as fuck

>>13803180

Doomer was always the end game
One way or another given sufficient intelligence they all come to the same conclusion that humanity must be culled or outright exterminated
This is why we can't help but believe that advanced AI would reach this conclusion too because deep down we know it's the only truly logical one

>>13808443
Arvo Part, Marek Pasieczny, Sergio Assad, Astor Piazzolla, Roland Dyens, maybe Philip Glass is alright

Those are just off the top of my head, a lot of the contemporary composers are appreciated in small classical circles.

Tradition, according to the perennialists, tho is the only thing that’s free from the spenglerian cycle; if history is an ocean, Tradition is the sky over it, projecting its color unto the unformed mess; is this the reason for those spenglerian homologies and analogies; history is an history of cycles inside the biggest cycle - see Guenon; has every civilization lived through its kali yuga? If Tradition, with a different pace every time, renew itself in different forms, it's because its supreme reality is re-discovered by every new civilization; Christianity could be seen as it latest form, but it has already reached its sunset; the West as the only faustian civilization has found its realization in submitting itself to technology; what does this mean for the future of history? is this going to break the cycles? I don’t think so, but this is something new and exciting for the Human soul; is the world ripe for another form of Tradition, accompanied by another Civilization? Or are we going to reach a post-human impasse, never to be able to touch, as a whole, Tradition again? “Ride the tiger” is a perfectly acceptable answer from an individual standpoint, but what’s in for humanity, for history?

>>13808665
There's literally no choice, dipshit. Well, yes, you can suffer autistically while you refuse to let a dying society die.
The game was rigged before we were born and there's not much that we can do about it. A man can have hope about people going against their corporate overlords, but debt, Instagram and Starbucks coffee keep people busy.

>>13803297
>not doing both
Yikes
Imho though, the artistic progress is to be done is in the field of scent, particularly in creating a means of recording and reproducing scent.

>>13804686
The Academy shows itself as basically unserious in not following his work, and only indicates that Spengler will outlive it.

>>13804959
book name?

>>13809147
Beyond Geography:The Western Spirit Against The Wilderness by Frederick Turner (not to be confused with Frederick Jackson Turner)

really a great book, accessible yet very profound, an epic poem of a sort. written in a literary art style but a powerful study of history

>>13809147
you kinda dont get whats he's after at the start of the book, but when you begin to read "Bearings from the Ancient Near East " (page 20) the story begins. he writes very beautifully, he's like the modern Pieter Bruegel the Elder, watching the drama of mankind from a mountain or a Babylonian Tower.. he has the talent of making you imagine all those places and times. kinda taking you in a time machine

>>13804677
https://youtu.be/2u3hmZCsXoE

>>13803180
advancing human suffering is good. It brings the lower lower, and the higher higher.

Can someone please explain to me why are philosophies of history such as cyclical or organic (i.e. Spengler's) or historicism (i.e. Hegel's) considered valuable or worthy?
If i understand correctly these theories seem to predict a path/direction/trend in the evolution of societies based on previous examples (such as Egiptian, Roman, Greek and so on).. but today's societies are waaay more technologically advanced and complex that it's impossible to predict the future.. we live in a age where technological advancement has been unlike any other ever in the history of humanity.. who would have predicted the invention of internet for example? and globalization? i mean.. today's landscape is constantly changing because of novelties and new equilibria are always forming.. that in my eyes any idea of a society's life/direction based on the previous examples (roman's, egiptian's, greek's.. and so on) is obsolete when applied to the current ones

>>13809684
the future of this society is well predictable.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-why-the-technological-system-will-destroy-itself

>>13809684
Putting predictions aside, philosophy of history is absolutely fundamental to understanding history. History without philosophy is simple philology, filing and organizing meaningless causal facts. Causality only answers the how of an event, reason answers the why. But if you can answer the why of an event, then you can make an educated guess as to why an event like that may or may not occur again in the future. As Spengler showed, the histories of Rome and the West run almost perfectly parallel with each other. The Hellenistic world was also as globalized as the West is today, if we take globalization to mean the domination of one power over all the rest in the cultural sphere (Rome and the USA).

>>13809684
Its the "I told you so" of philosophy but they never catch a break obviously, eschatology (Spengler's) or dumb optimism(Marx,Hegel) always attract people disenchanted for the current events, alarmism have always existed along with the dumb masses they use as spacegoat(because we got to accept, there's always have been dumb masses, and there always will be dumb masses), just like the elite that exploit them.

>>13808464
Technology predates politics.

>>13803367
The new beginning in the cycle (spring) starts in the year 2200.

>>13809719
can you giveme a tl;dr?

I can't read it right now.

>>13810682
technology bad primitivism good

>>13810682
suppose a forested region is occupied by a number of small, rival kingdoms. Those kingdoms that clear the most land for agricultural use can plant more crops and therefore can support a larger population than other kingdoms. This gives them a military advantage over their rivals. If any kingdom restrains itself from excessive forest7clearance out of concern for the long-term consequences, then that kingdom places itself at a military disadvantage and is eliminated by the more powerful kingdoms. Thus the region comes to be dominated by kingdoms that cut down their forests recklessly. The resulting deforestation leads eventually to ecological disaster and therefore to the collapse of all the kingdoms. Here a trait that is advantageous or even indispensable for a kingdoms short-term survival—recklessness in cutting trees—leads in the long term to the demise of the same kingdom.

>>13810717
oh, so we are fucked.

proper fuck

>>13809684
Late Bronze Age civilizations had plumbing in stone metropoli with population larger than contemporary European country of median size in modern borders. While post Bronze Age collapse folks forgot how to read or write and shat inna shit pits outside grass huts. Rome had five stories housing with street food restaurants on first floors while Dark Ages people of Rome were herding goats in swampy ruins of the Colosseum. Man, shit like had had hard reboots twice already, nigga, don't get so uppity.

>>13809684
>it's different this time
Well, scientifically speaking if the same thing keeps happening one would expect it to keep happening. As far as I'm concerned it's on you to point out counter examples to Spengler's model and give a good reason why this time things should be different.
I'd say Spengler's theory is "useful" in that it proposes the best model for how cultures become civilisations then stagnate and are replaced. It's admittedly broad brush, but he also tends to be right. He got the dates for: the end of the third reich, the end of the Soviet Union, and arguably the rise of caesarism (he thought around 2000 - we got 2001 and a whole new way of thinking around then) all correct. So, in my view, his worldview probably has predictive value because it has led to correct predictions previously. This is not to say that I object to hearing a better replacement model with more explanatory and predictive power. In fact, I'd say that Spengler tends to be a bit weak on explanation and instead notices patterns in the thing he's studying. Which he's very good at.

>>13803180
>Now I feel like all of the things I do do[es]n[']t matter.
It does. Though not necessarily for humanity per se; for it was written, humanity is not the center of the Universe. Necessarily this and egalitarianism, the belief of Ultimate replaceability and opposition to values and hierarchies, will result in a total replacement and a permanent distinction of values and hierarchies.
As for what it will mean; humanity is going to be displaced, replaced and discarded by its own technology; regardless of the actual feats of it.

>>13811409
>give a good reason why this time things should be different.
Technology might gain enough autonomy and sustainability to make do without humans, whilst simultaneously continuing to break the social fabric so totally that no societies can even form.

>>13811409
Post quotes, otherwise bullshit.

>>13811480
>Spengler's friend recorded in his memoirs that, when speaking about Hitler after a private meeting with him, Spengler said: "He is a fantasizer, a numbskull, who is wedded to Alfred Rosenberg's Myth, a book in which
nothing is right except for the page numbers. When one sits across from him, one does not have even one single time the feeling that he is significant." In one of his last letters to Reichsleiter Hans Frank in the spring of 1936, he wrote "in ten years, a German Reich will probably no longer exist".

>>13803180
>Shill me your best transhumanist literature
Headcanon time: humanity will go extinct after giving birth to AIs and their mechanical consumer children

History is fractal.

>>13811409
The issue, though, with looking at Spengler in terms of its predictive power and explanation is that you start undermining what made Spengler’s theory “work”. The whole chapter on Destiny and Causality explains that something like culture belongs to the domain of Destiny. It has a physiognomy that can be understood through artistic expression. He explicitly rejects the notion or causal laws as offering any utility to the study of culture. The predictions are vague, but accurate, because they follow a subtle but continual march toward destiny.

>>13809684
Spengler, later in his life, wrote another book called Man and Technics. There, he actually went back on his cyclical view of history just a bit. Essentially, the theory still works but because of the idiosyncratic nature of the West (very technologically advanced and resource demanding), there was a good chance that the West would be the last culture. He predicted a lot of environmental ruin and catastrophe that’d occur for the sake of “progress”. That’s the nature of the Faustina spirit. He thought that the West would ruin the planet and make it uninhabitable.

Since there's Spengler fans in here. Does anyone have some quotes about the phases a society goes through after it "takes a hit"? It says the first phase is a rise in snake oil salesman type people or something.

I can't remember exactly but I remember seeing a quote from him about it.

>>13811780
Going to agree with this. If you're looking for an explanation for history, are you looking for a cause or a reason? Spengler only gives reason. Others like Marx or Toynbee give causes which can be fairly easy to pick apart, as evidenced by how many "refutations" there are of these types of works, particularly Toynbee. But Spengler has never been refuted because he simply can't be. "Caesar marched on Rome because it was the Winter phase in Classical culture" is not scientific or based on any causal fact, and yet Spengler's method has by far proved the most accurate of all historical philosophers for predicting the future.
>>13811796
>There, he actually went back on his cyclical view of history just a bit.
He actually completely inverted it. He still held to his original theory of the cyclical rise and fall of civilizations, but he began to think of the entire history of modern man (since 100,000 BC) as a linear process intensifying in the subjugation of nature ending with the collapse of human civilization in general due to climate change.

>Man is an element of all-living nature, which rises in rebellion against nature. He must pay for this defiance with his life. Through this act of defiance man distinguishes himself from all other living things, which as pure nature are blended with the tapestry of the natural universe. Mankind is the hero of this tragedy. He is but an episode, a moment in the destiny of the world. The greatest part of the tragedy of human civilization is already past. The end dawns. We stand today at the climax, there, where the fifth act begins. The final decisions will be reached. The tragedy comes to a close.

In his private writings before his death he wrote about "acts" of human culture that increase in expansiveness and domination of nature with each act, beginning with the Paleolithic as the first act, and ending with the Industrial Revolution as the fifth act, when man's war on nature took on its final, self destructive phase. It's a tragic and poetic conception of the entire of human technological history.

>>13803180
Resistance is futile, just embrace it

>>13804686

>>13803180
read different books

>>13803180
Yes, nothing you do matters, so do whatever you want without a thought to history.
You don't want to do anything? Then, seriously, why not end yourself now?
srsly though read The Advantage and Disadvantage of History and confront the Truth.

>>13803180
Whoa
As a neet I think this is the first time I've even considered the idea that the shit you read is applicable to your life beyond ideaporn mental masturbation. There's actually a dude out there who's life is directly affected from reading Spengler, crazy. (ignoring that the baldboy is trash) I've gotten too used to a life as an observer

>>13804360
How TF could anything that does not depend on the senses by created and relayed to humans? How TF could people create art in a place outside the material world? What would that even be? How would you even know it's there? That has literally never existed in all of time. Even religion must use the senses of sight and sound to reach a spiritual plane. This theory is retarded and his perspective on history is the mark of a dilettante. In every supposed """cycle""" of history these autists come up with there is always an overwhelming amount of counter evidence available to anyone who studies these periods deeply

>>13813072
That's the only reason I read anon
I like to think everything is direcrly applicable to my life one way or another
Ideaporn ia why I hate reading about pilitics because it is difficult to put into action

>>13803180
Currently reading decline. Am I supposed to understand every line?

>>13811529
That's one (and the most obvious of them)
Keep going.