/lit/ - Literature

Ride the tiger (tm)

>>13792170
The great optimism that's defined western civilization is likely dead for good. The institutions created by our ancestors to facilitate their power processes have completely choked our own.

>>13792170
now read kaczynski and weep for our race
then move into the woods

>>13792178
This but for realises

>>13792170
>falling for the cyclical time theory bullshit
>falling for spenglet
lol

>>13792185
>our race
That is, the human race, I assume?

>being depressed by spengler

lmao gay, if *that's* all it took to blackpill you then wew lad wait to you read [an actual fucking book]

>>13792216
>dude eternal progress lmao

>>13792227
>he thinks I hold an OPTIMISTIC view of linear time
haha, no

Unironically transhumanism

>>13792220
There is not one human race, there is barely one human species

>>13792216
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory#Contemporary_theories

>Recently the most important contributions to the development of the mathematical models of long-term ("secular") sociodemographic cycles have been made by Sergey Nefedov, Peter Turchin, Andrey Korotayev, and Sergey Malkov.[4] What is important is that on the basis of their models Nefedov, Turchin and Malkov have managed to demonstrate that sociodemographic cycles were a basic feature of complex agrarian systems (and not a specifically Chinese or European phenomenon).

>>13792250
wow! it's useless!

>>13792222
Checked and witnessed.

>>13792220

>>13792283
This is to say, the one race, the human race.

>>13792170
I think the decline is inevitable.
That said, maybe a start would be something like the communities mentioned in "Why Liberalism Failed" or "The Benedictine Option".

>>13792295
>communities
That's illegal and racist.

>>13792299
That liberals would try to ban them is the greatest weakness of that idea, indeed...
They would likely argue that any alternative to nihilism is brainwashing.

>>13792307
Hungary and Russia are welcoming white families from Germany, UK, South Africa. Russia is giving away free farmland.
Japan wants to repopulate its countryside, not sure how open they are to white immigrants fleeing insanity.

>>13792311
Russia is welcoming non-white families too. Whites in Russia are becoming a minority.

>>13792326
>Whites in Russia are becoming a minority.
Not really. Russia got more whites from the conquest of Crimea / war in Ukraine. The birthrates are slowly increasing among whites and decreasing among non-whites. The largest muslim groups are white as well, Tatars.
As for the East, I don't really see Chinese DNA as a problem for success.

>>13792283
You mean to say
>the jews are whiter than we think
which is true.

>>13792170
I’m reading this right now and it seems kind of silly

I understand the reasoning but I think the cycle could easily break or go in different directions at this point. The development of technology has for sure changed or interrupted the cycle

Is this book actually worth reading?

>mfw people only read Decline and forget Man and Technics
Spengler sort of broke with his cyclical views and instead came to belief that the West would turly be the final civilization, because in its decline it would take down all other peoples and the world itself through a massive cataclysmic extinction event. Dont think China, Russia, India, Africa or whatnot will be spared. Everything is in cultural and physical decline, and everything is going downhill,

>>13792423
The age of materialism and science happens towards the end of every cycle in his theory, the Faustian one is just more extreme as the most dynamic and expansive culture in history

History is an eternal Shepard's tone, fluctuating up and down in simultaneity.

Other than "Trajan and Hadrian are resurrected and appointed as dictators of the world" what else could save the West at this point?

>>13792474
Artificial wombs

>>13792424
It's basically the Das Kapital for idealists. Spengler is very much an idealist, the 4th in line after Kant, Schopenhauer, and Nietzsche (not an idealist but was equally influenced by Schopenhauer). His basic theory is that entire cultures project their minds onto the world, rejecting cause and effect in history completely and essentially saying that nothing in a civilization's history happens unless that civilization wants it to happen. So feminism for example shouldn't be seen as a rebellious movement, but an essential part (not "good" or "bad") of the late Western cultural ethos.

Yes it's worth reading, but his theory is as extensive as Marxism and should be approached as such

>>13792474
America collapsing into a civil war and losing all ability to project power globally

>>13792499
based chink chauvanist

>>13792170
it is not a good historical work, he makes many mistakes. it is more of a cultural artifact reflecting the pessimestic world view of germans at the time.
anyway, if you want to continue being a bad historian you can decide that you are the literal messias to get yourself out of the cycle.

>>13792170
Yeah dood. The sun rises and it always sets. What you need to understand is that despite this, it still rises again.

>>13792617
The strength of Spengler doesnt lie in the factuality of his historical views, but in his prescience and predictions on history, and the rather depressing conclusions we're forced to draw. He's the anti-marx in many ways, because while many praise Marx' interpretation of history, his predictions never came true, while Spengler's interpretation of history was shoddy at best, but he nonetheless managed to predict the course of the West (and Russia) with high accuracy. And beyond that, he was able to dismiss empty optimism of countries in ascension because of the achievements they have, or their expansive drift, like with the USA, USSR, or Nazi Germany. Spengler could see that there was already rot setting in, and he would likewise dismiss people who nowadays think that China will rule the world, when China is rotting away just as hard as the West is. In fact, China has become part of the West, and it is not a pseudomorphosis, as Spengler thought Russia was (though i'd argue Russia has been far more Westernized than Spengler thought it'd be)

>>13792417
No, because modern jews don't exactly come from there.

Did you just finish marathoning his wikipedia page? Read man and technics

my personal life is shit anyway so i don´t care anymore

>>13792499
>America collapsing into a civil war and losing all ability to project power globally
Is it even just America, at this point?

Look at the UN here:

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/17-10-2018-united-nations-agencies-call-for-ban-on-virginity-testing

>The social expectation that girls and women should remain “virgins” (i.e. without having sexual intercourse) is based on stereotyped notions that female sexuality should be curtailed within marriage. This notion is harmful to women and girls globally.

>>13792227
It's not like Spengler refutes evolution.
>>13792216
>cyclical
Dude we're already double helix mode.

>>13792746
>when China is rotting away just as hard as the West is

how so?

>>13792918
>Abysmal birth rate
>Culture completely obliterated and being replaced by late stage Western cultural forms (communism, capitalism and protestantism, the most soulless and degenerated of all Christian forms)
>extreme work pressure and expectations causing despair while also fostering hypercapitalist careerism
>Despair amongst the populace and increased amount of people checking out like Western NEETs or Hikkikomori's
>Severe gender disbalance means about 30 million young men will never get married

The first two points are the biggest ones, because a shitty birth rate always means decline.

>>13792966
Is China also being dominated by hedonism? I thought their Communist Party was socially conservative?

>>13792973
But the populace is. And there is more to decline than just hedonism.

>>13792474
War.

>>13792216
Is this a joke? I knew there were people this dumb outside but I didn't know they were here too

>>13792180
Optimism is cowardliness according to spengler tho. To spengler this was always inevitable. The death of god was the completion of will which was the fundamental thing that made the west different from other cultures, not optimism.

>>13792889
Modern Jews come from anywhere, there are even Indian Jews and Congolese Jews. But their spiritual ancestors are the Israelite of old, and for Middle Eastern Jews (Mizrahim) they will be their blood ancestors as well.

>>13792916
The UN is just an extension of the US propaganda system

>>13792916
>harmful to women and girls globally
Ironically, what's actually harmful to women is promiscuous behavior that later inhibits pair bonding.

>>13792973
While the Party doesn't allow porn or gay mariage, its only objective is increasing the purchase power of its citizen and maintaining its own power. The Party is extremely corrupt and the Chinese are very materialistic, only thinking about eating and buying new cars. The economic growth will slowly diminish and they'll be left with an overpopulated soulless consumer hell.

>>13792746
its nothing special to diagnose a rot in the West. Kierkegaard and Nietzsche seperately did it almost a century before spengler. whatever Spengler would add would be historic, which is all thrash. seriously, only pseuds read and care for spengler. instead read some hayden white or something

>>13793698
Except Spengler's diagnosis and predictions went far beyond what Nietzsche and Kierkegaard predicted. Not just in the breadth of his predictions (Nietzsche barely touched politics, economics, millitary developments, propaganda, civil developments, etc.), but also the duration. He didn't just diagnose the illness, but also predicted most of the trajectory that it would take.

>>13792170
Read Evola. Watch Alex Jones' videos. Go to church.

>>13794070
Drink bleach

>>13794072
Dilate. Enjoy your life, you will have time to regret it while rotting in hell.

>>13794070
Based outside of Alex

>>13794948
Alex is based, but only because he's fucking insane

>>13792966
>Severe gender disbalance means about 30 million young men will never get married

i dont fancy myself a spengler tier-prophet but im going to ahead and predict that thats not going to go down well

>>13792442

I think the internet is the herald of us reaching a divergence point. The exchange of ideas is happening in a revolutionary way.

Now rather than a few isolated individuals intuiting the decline of their civilization and being unable to really warn a critical mass, you have a widespread number of people globally aware of the current crisis.

This awareness is the essential catalyst to a new reaction. Using this new mode of communication we can direct the course of history in a novel way.

Read IMPERIUM

>>13795535
And super-hypergamy hasn't even hit China yet. Just wait until that happens

>>13795632
>Now rather than a few isolated individuals intuiting the decline of their civilization and being unable to really warn a critical mass, you have a widespread number of people globally aware of the current crisis.

Outside 4chan and maybe some trad cons, how many people are aware of the decline of civilization? Seems like the dominant ideology is that we are at the greatest era in mankind's history.

>>13792170
Yes, let´s just hop on the Russian train for now.

>>13795729
>Outside 4chan

Your post begins with a flawed premise. This website has already caused massive changes to the timeline without effort.

While most people are still blissfully unaware zombies; they are unimportant. The hundreds of thousands that visit this website are more than enough to write history, and we already are.

Cultivate virtue in yourself and you can possess yourself.

Cultivate virtue in your family and you can possess your family.

Cultivate virtue in your town and you can possess your town.

Cultivate virtue in your nation and you will possess the nation.

Cultivate virtue in the world and take the world.

>>13795632
>you have a widespread number of people globally aware of the current crisis
And? Nothing is changing. Nothing is going to change. Revolutionary ideologies were tried and tested a century ago, and nowadays only the very fringes of society support them. There will never be mass movements in support of something like communism or fascism ever again, because they were tried and they failed. Even the ideal of democracy, the first of these ideologies, is slowly but surely crumbling away as we enter the age of Caesarism. The Internet is the Faustian version of the forum and the agora; the mass media, the professional Roman orators. The purpose of the media and the orators is to push the masses in a certain direction. Though the masses are incapable of independent thought, they do largely constitute the material body of the state. If someone wants to get something done, they need the support of the masses, and in this Roman republicanism and Western democracy are no different. Western ideals have shifted from the idea of the nation state to the idea of money, as was the same in Caesar's time. The moneyed elite allowed the transformation of the Roman republic into Augustus' dictatorship because the only thing they truly cared about was keeping their money, no matter how much they lamented the decline of the republic, and the masses followed Caesar and Augustus because of how much they reviled the moneyed elite. Caesar was not assassinated because he was a dictator, it was because he wanted to take the latifundia away from the wealthy and redistribute it to the poor of Italy. And it will all happen again in the West in a few decades.

>>13795802
>Nothing is changing. Nothing is going to change.

Your beliefs dictate your reality.

Believe that nothing can happen, and nothing will happen.

I believe I can do without doing. So it is done.

>>13795843
What about the beliefs of everyone else?

>>13795843
ok bro i believe in you but we want to see something real happening.

>>13795855
Their beliefs dictate their realities, not my reality.

>>13795867
Then make it happen. Declaring on the internet that the war is lost decades before it is over is stupid. You have a tool incomprehensibly powerful to all the propagandists of the past, and you use it to do the work of your enemies.

>>13795912
>Then make it happen
How? HOW?

>>13792216
>muh Whig histiography
Disgusting.

>>13792178
Fpbp

>>13792170
You're a fool who should read more. That being said, at the basic, material level, he's absolutely right.
I pity those such as yourself that see this entropy as an awful, depressing thing, without even a hint of glory or excitement.

>>13792222
Quads of absolute truth, to refute proves your a nobody and mad cause bad.... at the life thing

>>13792966
>>13792918
Dont forget pollution, as an american I'm pissed that we shit on ourselves. China genuinely is gross. Just look up Acid lakes and that will be your toe dip in the cesspool of nasty. Fucking windmill squires.

>>13792170
>What the fuck can we even do then?
Selective breeding. Get yourself in breeding condition and find a suitable mate(s) with good qualities, then produce offspring. Lots and lots of offspring.

>>13796624
>Whig
Retard alert. See >>13792234

>>13792283
Okay and what does that have to do with anything?

>>13799265
The one race, the human race, the race chosen by God.

>>13799300
suck my dick lol

>>13792220
>>13792286
this, there's only one race. sometimes Asian parents have black babies.

>>13792170
Doesn't matter because we will all be dead lool

>>13795651
his politics distorted his reading of spengler, he was coping

>>13795729
>how many people are aware of the decline of civilization?
It's been one of the most shilled memes since the 70s at least. Economists have been talking about it for bout 30 years. Far right parties have been making scores well in the 20% in national elections in Europe on that very platform. Novelist who do nothing but yap about it for books on end have been winning prizes since the 90s. One guy recently got elected president of the most powerful country on Earth on a campaign called "make our country great again".
The dominant ideology may be that we're at peak progress but the main competing ideology is that we are in deep decline, and latter is the one winning elections lately.

Also how myopic do you have to be to imagine 4chan and "some trad cons" are the only one with insight and completely walled from the idiocy of everyone else? 4chan fully embodies the modern zeigeist and is in completely in tune with contemporary retardedness, and trad cons nowaday are 90% midwit boomers running dishones cash grabs.

>>13795771
Fews things are more amazing than the 4chanesque combination of hapless retardation and absolute sense of self-importance. Someone who spends time enough here could really come to believe that a community that cannot organize anything bigger than a cringy meetup of half a dozen autists is actually takng over the world.

>>13800094
>>13800106
Samefag and redditor

>>13800094
The concept of terminal decline entering the political sphere isn't that old, as people used to think that it would end in communism as the resolution of history, rather than its decline. Then communism collapsed, and we briefly had the optimism of liberal capitalism in the 90s with Fukuyama and the hope that Russia and China would become liberal democracies, which started to fade in the mid 2000's. The giant surge of the far right is relatively recent, and most were already very well aware of Spengler before they started to expand their hegemony and enjoy the electoral and cultural success that they first achieved in 2016.

>applying historical perspective to a globalized society

What a fucking midwit

>>13792170
>depressing
>not fucking epic
We live in the days when the dead political form is slowly being replaced by power hungry privatiers like Trump, you cuck.

>>13800152
This. Where do you fucking Chuds get off? Why the fuck would you assume that just because Rome fell, the US will to?

>>13800489
>tfw Rome fell and the US won't

>>13800152
indeed

>>13800489
>Why the fuck would you assume that just because Rome fell, the US will to?
Because the histories of both civilizations have played out the same way so far

bump

>>13795535
It's gonna be a war. There's already a lot of nationalist tension there, and they've got a political imperative to get rid of young men... what better way than sending them to die in some meat shredder conflict which ends with China's increased control over the Pacific?

>>13792283
That makes sense, in that white people are the Jewest of them all.

Gilgamesh, however, refuses to be deflected from his quest. After a series of harrowing experiences, he finally reaches Utnapishtim, a former mortal whom the gods had placed in an eternal paradise, and addresses him.

"Oh, father Utnapishtim, you who have entered the assembly of the gods, I wish to question you concerning the living and the dead, how shall I find the life for which I am searching?"

Utnapishtim said, "There is no permanence. Do we build a house to stand forever, do we seal a contract to hold for all time? Do brothers divide an inheritance to keep forever, does the flood-time of rivers endure? It is only the nymph of the dragon-fly who sheds her larva and sees the sun in his glory. From the days of old there is no permanence. The sleeping and the dead, how alike they are, they are like a painted death. What is there between the master and the servant when both have fulfilled their doom? When the Anunnaki, the judges, come together, and Mammetun the mother of destinies, together they decree the fates of men. Life and death they allot but the day of death they do not disclose."

Then Gilgamesh said to Utnapishtim the Faraway, "I look at you now, Utnapishtim, and your appearance is no different from mine; there is nothing strange in your features. I thought I should find you like a hero prepared for battle, but you lie here taking your ease on your back. Tell me truly, how was it that you came to enter the company of the gods and to possess everlasting life?" Utnapishtim said to Gilgamesh, "I will reveal to you a mystery, I will tell you a secret of the gods."

>>13792220
He means Christian race.

>>13792973
>he never read "I love dollars"

>>13794070
>>13794072
>>13794087
Exactly in that order

>west has been declining for the past 2 centuries
>nothing to date has been implemented successfully to redirect this trend
>b-but it'll get better soon! r-right??

>>13800235
>trump is the first power hungry politician
wew
were you born last night?

>>13800092
Incorrect. Yockey and Spengler shared the same political sensibilities and both believed "Prussianism" was meant to facilitate a united European political entity that would dominate the globe as a kind of new "Imperium Romanum". I recall that one of Spengler's letters discusses the possibility of an American-led world order in the future if Germany fails to assert itself politically.

>>13792435
>"For the free-moving life of the animal
is struggle, and nothing but struggle,
and it is the tactics of its living, its superiority or inferiority in face of “the other”
(whether that “other” be animate or inanimate Nature), which decides the history of
this life, which settles whether its fate is to suffer the history of others or to be itself
their history. Technics is the tactics of living; it is the inner form of which the procedure of
conflict — the conflict that is identical with Life itself — is the outward expression."
Based

>>13792170
The decline of one culture leaves room for a new one to come in and take its place.
This can be an opportunity to decide what its successor will be.

>>13803289
only dullards dont see the new world being created because they are blind to what is necessary. Railing against the elite is stupidity because it assumes that the elite do not wish to keep this game of civ going. It is the fear of what we must destroy in order to create anew. low virility fags will get killed by swarms of darkies. Buy bitcoin.

>>13792435
Pretty amazing prediction, considering he didn´t even know about the climate fuckups.

>>13792746
god i wish that was me

>>13803720
same desu
>>13802849
Thats dubious. The age of giant armies is over. Whether you have a thousand soldiers or a million doesnt matter much when a giant missile strike, drone strike, or even a nuke can wipe them all out anyway.

>>13803840
>number of soldiers doesn't matter
>drone strikes can take out an arbitrary large number of soldiers
>nukes will be used in anything but completely desperate situations
>there is not such thing as anti-air defences and individual missile launchers
I get your point and it makes sense, but the way your put it is going too far. Numbers still matter, big armies still matter, particularly when they include tanks, warships, aircrafts, etc.
Only they're increasingly used as deterrent, like nuke themselves.

So maybe the war will take another form, like a cyberwar or economic war. Maybe it will be limited to proxy wars and small-scale encounters. But in any case the existence of big armies is a massive part of the strategic background, like the existence of nukes (even if they're not going to be used).

>>13803863
global decentralised warfare. Ideally the real military power will sit back and protect the heart of civilisation and let the fruitless branches kill themselves off. It will be war on a longer timeframe than we are used to. China has zero fight in them beyond self protection. Africa and Islam are tools for the culling. No doubt factions will exist, but i believe it is going to largely be a street to street war where logistics play the biggest part vs military capacity. (race + religion are set to be the dominant factors as darwinism would assert.

>>13792492
so, dialectics?

>>13803840
>Whether you have a thousand soldiers or a million doesnt matter much when a giant missile strike, drone strike, or even a nuke can wipe them all out anyway.
It does matter a lot. If a war broke out it would be shock and drag. First the conventional forces would clash in singularity of utmost violence and then the more robust force would move in and wage a war of attrition trying to maintain peace and economy both at home and at in the occupied terriotry.

He who created us without our help will not save us without our consent.
—St. Augustine

>>13804036
I exaggerated, but the problem remains that there is no way those useless men can be used in a conflict that will not eventually erupt into a full blown nuclear war. If they want to create a meatgrinder for millions then they will have to antagonize either the USA or Russia, which will end up in a nuclear conflict.

>>13793474
No such thing as Spiritual ancestors kike. Give clay

So seriously, is there any point to it all? Any point in having a family? And therefore any point in living?

>>13792170
For starters, you can stop reading books written by men who never left their house or had sex. Then, you can leave your house and have sex.

>>13804263
>there is no way those useless men can be used in a conflict that will not eventually erupt into a full blown nuclear war
You aren´t supposed to shove all of the men on the frontlines. First the initial shock will destroy all the conventional military and society as we know it, then you are left with the remnants. How many, how skilled and how organized those remnants will be a crucial for the second phase, even if we don´t really know much about the second phase.

>>13804097
why not

>>13804610
Die with shame, cunt

>>13795748
Russia is a very interesting example of how a religion can be dominant in a state despite only a minority of its population actually attending church services. Something similar probably couldn't take place in America, though.

>>13795729
Go outside of 4chan, anon. Pinker stopped being trendy at least a year ago. Everyone knows we're in a twilight age at this point.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/america-without-family-god-or-patriotism/597382/

>bunch of speculative, flowery german bullshit about politics instead of actual philosophy
It absolutely reeks of low IQ in here.

>>13806177
>speculative
>has verifiable predictions
Go jack off somewhere else, (((Eternal Anglo)))