/lit/ - Literature

>>13670669
>he thinks believing in the existence of God is illogical

I'm not sure. We also know that at a certain point in the IQ curve, the predisposition switches, and you're more likely to be religious again.
If there's any weight to the difference in the brain idea then I would suggest religion plays on a certain desire to metaphysically order the world in order to make certain human tasks more effective. It's a way to construct meaning and to order behavior and priorities, both for the subject and for others.

>>13670677
Believing in a God despite none of your 5 senses revealing his existence is illogical, yes.

What's the difference between your God and Thor or Amaterasu? What makes yours any more believable than theirs? A 2000 year old compilation of stories from a hundred different authors doesn't prove fuck all. You have no proof of God, none.

Aquinas isn't proof of shit, the bible isn't proof of shit, your "faith" isn't proof of shit. Your God is as believable as fairies in the bottom of the garden.

>>13670669
I'm more advanced mentally than you.

That's why I have faith in the higher power.

>>13670688
You have to use the inner eye to see the truth.

>>13670689
Saying things doesn't make them true.

Why do you believe in something you have no proof of? Has God ever spoken to you or come to you in your dreams?

>>13670690
Take your hippie bullshit somewhere else.

Use your inner penis to go fuck yourself.

>>13670688
>Believing in a God despite none of your 5 senses revealing his existence is illogical, yes.
No, it isn't. Define "illogical", please.

>>13670685
We also know that the more you are above the average iq the more likely you are to have mental illness.

Read this. James outlines how psychological character influences the way religious experience manifests itself, and much more. Plus, it's a pleasure to read because of James' wonderful prose. I almost can't believe that these are the transcripts of a lecture series—to think he could speak in the way he writes blows my mind.

>>13670685
>no response to the one post that takes the OP seriously and wants to discuss
OP doesn't care about the idea at all, he's just using it as a proxy to bait religious people, probably because he's buttmad at his parents or something

>>13670702
>No, it isn't.
Yes it is.
>Define "illogical", please.
You know the definition of illogical, fuck off moron, we're not playing this game of 50 questions where you ask for everything to be defined so you can try to sneak in between the cracks. Fucking drop proof or shut up.

>>13670707
Yes, that is also true. Interestingly, religious belief may have evolved in higher intelligence people as a counter to the drawbacks of being highly intelligent, including the predisposition to mental illness and depression.

>>13670697
Proof is the concern of the lesser minds. True believers don't require it. There is a plane of thinking above your dynamics of evidence and so on.

It's so funny to watch your hapless search for proof. You won't find it, you know, you have to look inside yourself to discover the truth. There, you can find something even better. It's called fulfillment.

>>13670709
>Read this
No. Tell us what it says, this isn't a book club, present your arguments or go away. "Read this" is not an argument.

>>13670716
Retard materialist
>I'm not defining it
Yeah, because you know you can't satisfyingly do so. Dumb pseudo. Maybe if you weren't a midwit you would believe in something beyond the senses lmao

Logic is inherently sequential and therefore non contradictory. That God is illogical makes perfect sense to someone to whom God is illogical.

>>13670722
Coming on here and throwing a temper tantrum is only making you look stupid, you aren't going to change anyone's mind.
Also you need to be 18 to post.

>>13670721
No, proof is the concern of any sane, rational adult. You don't get to just hand wave it away. The reason everyone laughs at you in 2019 is because you think your fairytale is special and above silly things like proof and logic.

I know life is scary but believing in delusions is just pathetic.

>>13670722
Stop being a lazy cunt and read a book for once in your life. If you are genuinely interested in the topic, then you will get more out of it than acting the pseud-whisperer on /lit/

>>13670736
What constitutes "proof"?

>>13670669
>The only thing you can be sure of is that you exist.
>Believing that the reality you're experiencing is the ultimate reality is just that, a belief.
>You were and are able to make a leap of faith, you believe that what we're experiencing is most likely the ultimate reality and you also believe that free will is a thing even if it is logically impossible in a pure material world.
>When presented with two proposition for the universe, which can't be proven true or wrong, one with a purpose and a God, one purposeless and godless you made the leap of faith in believing that nothing matters.

Why would anyone do that is beyond me, being miserable and nihilistic for absolutely no reason rather than believing in an absolute justice and a purpose.
The only rational position is agnosticism, but apply this position to everything and you'll not be sure of anything apart from yourself.

>>13670722
>this isn't a book club

>>13670700
I'm agreeing with you. Within the realm of reason, where the rules of logic apply, it is illogical to not have any of your five senses to reveal god to you.

You need to use the sixth sense.

>>13670723
You know the definition, provide proof or shut up and keep your stupid delusional fairytales to yourself schizo.

>>13670723
>pseudo
First day bro?

>>13670739
I said we're not playing the "define this" game.

You know the definition of proof retard. Fuck off.

>>13670736
You don't know what logic is, you're just a brainwashed materialist. Drop you 100 years ago and you would have been a Christian. 3000 years before that and you would have worshipped whatever tribal god you happened to be born under. You're clearly a lemming who is swept along by cultural tides, hence your inability to adequately defend your position and thinking that using buzzwords and a 14 year old's idea of provocative language is good enough. It isn't good enough.

>>13670721
There's no such thing as looking inward. The only information inside you is your genes and your neurons, and none of them spell out fulfillment.

Or maybe I looked inward and all I saw was Talos. That's as valid as any other god.

>>13670742
>sixth sense
there's no god in my proprioception, either.

>>13670736
Rationality can set you free, but it can also be a cage that traps your mind and prevents you from seeing the truth.

You've come far enough using reason, but true enlightenment only will be bestowed upon you when you abandon it.

>>13670749
Oh sorry man did I use the wrong epic 4chan term? Haha I'll make sure to play by the rules next time! Thanks for looking out!

>>13670751
Yes, we're not playing it because you're irrational.

>>13670721
If that is so then you can believe in whatever you want (there is also no way of determining what is the correct belief among the 1000's that exist) and keep living in your lala land until reality hits you in the face.

>>13670722
Dude this literally a literature board

>>13670755
When you argue with me, it's really yourself who loses.

What do you stand to gain by such staunch adversity to yourself? You weren't born with all the answers, you will have to put in a bit of labour to find the key to the gate within.

I've already found it, it makes no difference to me if you do too. But who wouldn't want to?

>>13670736
You need to be 18 to post here dear femanon

>>13670669
These kind of threads are the living proof americans live in the fucking middle ages. Any philosophical questions you guys come up has to do with god and religion and religious people. Moreover, you mix your poor understanding of religion passed on to you by local protestant priests lost in that wasteland you call a country with your even poorer understanding of biology, namedropping the usual "brain" "iq" "biological impulse" and other notions you absorbed from 20 minutes of bored researching on the internet. Why don't you pick a book and discuss that, instead of making a thread where you showcase how vague your knowledge of anything is? You can learn way more by reading almost any book on the topic rather than come here and discuss your half-baked ideas with bitter and angry people like me

Yikes, edgy teenage atheist stumbles upon /lit/ for the first time. Please go back to /b/.

>>13670781
Are we violating your safe space, sweetie?

>>13670761
That's the mantra of the nonbeliever. A logical supposition. But the logic is blinding you. Someday, I know, your eyes will open and you will finally see the wings on your back just waiting to guide you.

When one reaches spiritual fulfillment, there is no doubt they have found the right path.

>>13670782
Even your attempts at a comeback at just boring regurgitated pieces of drivel.
Also,
>we
Lmao

>>13670774
Who wouldn't want to? People who want to truly know things don't "look inward" and go with whatever feels right.

>>13670780
You're not smarter than a protestant just because you read Aquinas.

>>13670787
There's no such thing as spiritual fulfillment. At best you're a LARPer wasting everyone's time, at worst you're deluded.

>>13670740
>The only thing you can be sure of is that you exist
Wrong, the rest of your post is invalid

>>13670740
But you don't have only two alternatives, you need to justify your specific god and metaphysics as opposed to all the other religions, cults and different philosophical conceptions of god/gods or godless metaphysics.

>>13670794
>go with whatever feels right.

So, it is your wish to go with what feels wrong?

curious

>>13670752
I don't have to defend shit all, YOU have to prove your God exists.

>>13670802
Not everyone operates under your burden of proof paradigms. Nevertheless, you cannot prove god exists. If one could do so, it would rather defeat the point of having faith.

everyone is religious. You just believe in "god" while someone else believes in money, power, beauty, intellect or whatever.
It's just a way of defining the purpose of your life.

>>13670759
We're not playing it because it's pointless. If you don't know the definition of simple words, go back to school.

>>13670801
We know where our intuition comes from, so if observation and data lead us to a counter intuitive conclusion, it's not the conclusion that's wrong.

>>13670810
This is the most retarded, brainlet, low hanging fruit answer in this entire shitty thread.

>>13670787
What is logic?

>>13670794
>read Aquinas
What exactly in that post made you assume he read Aquinas?

>>13670796
How is that wrong, please enlighten me.
>>13670800
You do, of course choosing that the universe was created by something akin to what we commonly call God will usually lead to more leaps of faith (a particular god, a particular creed, a particular branch of it etc..)
I believe in a God because I had no rational reason not to and it brings me more happiness than not believing.

>>13670828
>poor understanding of religion passed on to you by local protestant priests
Christian larpers on this board like to pretend that religion is less stupid if its catholic.

>>13670821
>We know where our intuition comes from, so if observation and data lead us to a counter intuitive conclusion, it's not the conclusion that's wrong.

just look at the knots you tie yourself in with logic. you have completely lost track of what you are after because you refuse to follow your heart.

I know it's not easy though. Introspection is the hardest thing for some people to do.

>>13670801
What ever seems more likely and doesn't sound like a wish fulfillment.

>>13670841
>X is true because I feel like it's true
this is not a reliable gain accurate information on anything, much less life's deepest questions.

Introspection is what brought me *out* of religion, not into it.

>>13670688
God is a speculative idea posited as the external cause of the universe. No empirical evidence can be provided as any sensory data would derive from the created world. I’m fact, all facts in the universe taken together would still not prove anything.

The difference between Thor and God is that Thor is a personification of natural forces and their subjective effect on consciousness. God however stands for the lack of fullness of the subject, its finitude, and points to the fact of its constitution by another.

Religion is not a scientific theory, but stands for world views. A world view of many gods exclude one with only one god, because in those different cases “god” stands for different things.

>>13670843
Fulfillment is a goal to be sought after, not a concept to reject outright.

>>13670853
>God is a speculative idea posited as the external cause of the universe
That you pulled out of your ass

>>13670851
>Introspection is what brought me *out* of religion, not into it.

what did you find inside that brought you out

>>13670807
>Not everyone operates under your burden of proof paradigms
Then enjoy being laughed at by every other person alive idiot.

>>13670866
lions are unconcerned about the opinions of sheep

>>13670865
The same thing all religious believes will find with enough introspection: nothing.

>>13670876
You're not a lion, you're a mentally handicapped fox who thinks the moss covered rock is responsible for creating the forest.

>>13670821
>This is the most retarded, brainlet, low hanging fruit answer in this entire shitty thread.
yeah, thinking that you have a "special part of a brain that can be activated by magnets" isn't. What's this part of brain concerned with? Oh, basic stuff really, if you believe in a deity or not. It has to be in a humaniod form, this deity in order for brain to understand it. If you attribute the same exact value to money as you do to god it can't work. It might work if you say that your god is a humanoid that looks like a dollar bill.

Very intelligent being you seem to be

>>13670876
You have to be 18 to post

>>13670876
Why are you quoting Mussolini now?
He also said that God doesn't exist because he doesn't punish hin for screaming insults at him.

>>13670669
>What's the mechanism behind why religious people are religious?
DNA and all its extrapolations.

>>13670884
cute analogy, i like foxes better anyway

>>13670669
Epigenetics

>>13670896
he was executed

>>13670877
what religion were you

>>13670908
So? Plenty of christians were genocided.

>>13670862
Not at all. God is directly grasped as the subject’s consciousness of itself as consciousness, i.e by the fact of its limitation. What you fail to grasp is that this is God. You automatically go a step further and say that “yes, and additionally he is... etc.” God is for us nothing further than the negative of our own self-definition grasped as a condition of possibility.

>>13670916
Baptist.

>>13670908
Everyone who has taunted god is dead or is going to die... maybe christians were right...

>>13670922
and?

>>13670928
why were you a baptist

>>13670926
>Not at all. God is directly grasped as the subject’s consciousness of itself as consciousness
That isn't a fact, you just pulled it out your ass.

>>13670940
The same reason most religious people believe, because my parents were.

>>13670948
you poor, poor, mixed up man

>>13670930
And so how does that mean Mussolini got God's wrath?

>>13670962
It doesn't.

>>13670956
Shut up retard, just because he doesn't buy into your collective delusion anymore doesn't make him less than you.

You're less than a child, even a child grows out of believing in shit like Santa. God is a cope because your pea brain can't handle the horror of reality without thinking there's someone watching over you.

>>13670971
>horror of reality

are you telling me you live in horror?

>>13670984
Literally the entire reason religion exists today is because people are afraid of dying.

>>13670984
There's no point in discussing that with someone who's own brain drags a veil over their eyes because you're too weak to handle reality.

>>13670987
>>13670995

I sure saw that double question dodge.

typical atheists

>>13670688
>things exist only if we can percieve them wìth our senses
so the black hole at the center of our galaxy didn't exist before we could take a picture of it, bacause it could only be theorized and not seen? in fact that's the only black hole that exists because we haven't seen or smelled or whatever any other black hole in our universe.
and what if you smoked DMT and saw God with your own eyes? would you believe it then?
i'm agnostic but that's such a brainlet reasoning

>>13670669
Usually its capacity for abstract thought

>>13671008
I'm not really sure what genius point you think you're making here. Black holes have empirical effects on other objects which we can observe. God doesn't.

>>13670688
I feel sorry for you, anon. Life for you must be a rotting shithole devoid of all love and meaning.

>>13671008
>bacause it could only be theorized and not seen?
The theory was based on the implications of our understanding of physics. There is no theory of god that is consistent with our understanding of the word.

>>13671023
>Life for you must be a rotting shithole devoid of all love and meaning.
Yes, it is. But I can't force myself to believe in God to feel better about something objectively shit any more than you can force yourself to not believe in God.

>>13671023
Love and meaning are human concepts. They can only exist in human minds. My love is for my friends, family, and fellow man, and meaning is only found in what you value.

>>13671034
I wish i could cuddle with you femanon

>>13670853
>Thor is a personification of natural forces and their subjective effect on consciousness
Wrong again, Christcuck.

>>13671059
I'm not a girl but if will make you feel better...

>>13671021
>>13671026
>the universe began and continues existing
>only Black hole have empirical evidence

>>13670943
No, very astute. It is a concept.

>>13671069
The truth has been revealed, anon.

>>13671105
A concept you pulled out of your ass

>>13671114
Indeed it has.

>>13671133
Concepts come from reason, anon. The anus has no cognitive faculties.

>>13671158
You know as well as I do that the church is an idol built to obscure the truth. That was perhaps not the intention but it was only inevitable that rituals meant to express truth, once fixed, would become conflated with their intended expression.

>>13670688
now this is what i call midwit posting

>>13670794
>You're not smarter than a protestant just because you read Aquinas
To be fair, anyone who reads Aquinas is going to be pretty smart, regardless of their views on them. A working knowledge of scholasticism probably puts you in the top .0001% for education, and even higher if you're American.

>>13671479
pfffffftttttahahahahahahahahaha

No one gives a fuck about your meme philosopher, fuck off retard.