/lit/ - Literature

>>13668650
Turns out Eastern religion is all about ME ME ME who would’ve guessed?

>>13668650
So he just banged hookers? Whats the big deal?

>>13668832
He was married while he did and lied to his wife about it, hence his claim about being a super-enlightened meditation expert in an lineage GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO BUDDHA HIMSELF *GASP* is exposed as nonsense, the man is a spiritual fraud like Osho.

>>13668650
>A western snake oil peddler who sells watered down Buddhism is caught being a degenerate for the umpteenth time this past century

>>13668650
So this guy was basically another Alan Watts. What living figures can one turn to for genuine spiritual guidance?

>>13669118
Your father.

Do you have a source other than 4chan?

>>13668650
don't give a fuck. that book is based and my life has improved for reading it.

>>13669167

this.

>>13668859
Banging hookers doesn't mean you're not enlightened. And only Kant thinks you can't lie to your wife, I believe Buddhists call such skillful means...

>>13669319
What is enlightenment anyway? It's a load of horseshit.
There is definitely a mythical/supernatural element to it, even in strict zen.

>>13669167
>>13669228
this makes me like him MORE if anything: the guy wrote one of the best meditation manuals out there (despite the spiritual garbage), and bangs hookers. I'm the least "spiritual" person out there but I owe him a lot for helping me focus and quiet my mind a bit

>no source
>no link

continue

>>13669662
banging hookers doesn't count as cheating. it's pretty indecent for a woman to tell her husband who he can have sex with. the pater familias must reign supreme

>>13669676
Based.

Wait... so does this meditation guide not actually work? Because I’ve been doing like 30 minutes a day following his guide

>>13669754
No, all these haters never even read the book, or they would've noticed that appendix with the list of escort services.

Don’t meditate. I went to a retreat and was doing 5 hours a day after several years of doing it, and had a fucking horrible experience. I realised what this insidious shit is actually doing. At first you think negative emotions and attachments are going away, that bullshit, it’s all emotions and attachments. Every tiny aspect and association that forms who you are is being slowly but surely chiselled away at during meditation. If you pursue it, you will get to the point where it all collapses. You will look at yourself and see total absence, just nothing. Your identity is important, and everything about it goes away, all the things you thought mattered, all your plans for the future just fall into this facade of one dimensional nothingness. That is the end goal. I don’t where all this happy shit comes from after this, it seems like this was the endgame all along. Everything feels dull, I feel like a zombie, I’m an empty hole and everything is just superficial nothingness. It’s not pleasant, I feel as though I’ve permanently damaged myself and my mind, and barely clung onto core aspects of myself. That’s what this shit does, never forget that. It will make you beyond a nihilist, and it won’t stop. I can’t follow thoughts anymore because I’ve trained my mind to stop them- you can’t undo that. You will be unthinking, just reactionary, no judgments, no opinions, no emotions, no attachments, like a fucking insect. That’s what this shit does, it makes you a fucking insect. Like a bundle of nerves that just responds to things, there’s nothing really there. All I am now is a weird fucking void that drifts around and reacts to things without any sort of personality involved, like a programmed machine. I fucking hate this so much. There would be no difference if I was dead, I basically feel like I am. Don’t start this path. Even if you do only like 10 minutes a day, this is the endgame, this is what it’s slowly doing to you.

>>13670162
baby's first anatta

>>13670162
Follow hindu teaching instead, buddhism is a nihilist cult

>>13670162
>I’ve trained my mind to stop them- you can’t undo that

lol ok retard. You can change your thoughts once, but not twice.

You just sound depressed dude. You were probably depressed before and just hoped this will save you.
The whole point is not to stop thinking, just to learn control and consciously guide your brain.
This is what happens when western retards fall for the meditation meme

>>13669118
Actual monks not interested in peddling books or similar shit, probably

His book works, but it still hurts.
>>13670162
>It will make you beyond a nihilist, and it won’t stop.
based retard stopped after A&P

I have this photo hanging in my house, should I take it down?

>>13670276
Don't be so fast:
>Please do not take this letter as fact. It includes false information, and distortions and misrepresentations of fact. I, in fact, resigned from the Dharma Treasure Board due to irreconcilable differences including their refusal to engage in mediation. Rather than accept my resignation as tendered, they chose to vote me off the Board and remove me as Spiritual Director of Dharma Treasure. A fuller and more complete explanation will be forthcoming. In the mean time, I strongly recommend everyone hold off on jumping to conclusions or engaging in analysis or commentary. We are taking our time (myself and my advisors) so as to respond in the healthiest and most appropriate way with the best interest of all parties in mind. Thank you, Culadasa

>>13670378
more like Drama Treasure

>>13670378
Thank you for this update!

>>13668650
I already had a hard time taking the enlightenment stuff seriously when reading that guy bickering on internet with another apparently well established guy who obviously was jelly of him

>>13670162
>You will be unthinking, just reactionary, no judgments, no opinions, no emotions, no attachments, like a fucking insect
sounds based, sign me up

>>13669118
Cloistered monks and gurus who aren't out looking for converts.

>>13668650
>John Yates, PhD

>>13670162
that no-self is some spooky shit

>>13668650
Culadasa is a pretty cool guy. He meditates and doesn't afraid of anything

Take the UG-pill and come to the realization that all '''''spirtual'''' teachers are frauds.

>>13668650
Not true. Daddy good daddy

>>13670162
>You will be unthinking, just reactionary, no judgments, no opinions, no emotions, no attachments, like a fucking insect. That’s what this shit does, it makes you a fucking insect. Like a bundle of nerves that just responds to things, there’s nothing really there.

You should be writting screenplays for Hollywood.

>juden attempts to discredit the only approachable meditation guide for everyday westerner

>>13669118
But Alan watts was based, faggot.

>>13668650
what are some good meditation books written by non-degenerates?

>>13669319
sila (morality) and bows adhering to it are part of meme-buddhism, he could have been a degenerate poly-cuck californian if he didn't take marriage bows and lie extensively about his degeneracy

>>13670162
That wasnt very buddha nature of you.

Also thanks for confirming that not all egos can handle this realization.

>>13669674
https://mailchi.mp/dharmatreasure/new-teacher-training-course-other-happenings-at-dharma-treasure-3007417?e=693097afaa

>>13670378
link?

>>13671268
you mean like, uncaught ones?

>>13671277
posted from his account on tmi subreddit

>>13671229
Hello R*ddit

>>13671273
>>13669674
>>13668650
In service,
The Dharma Treasure Board of Directors
Blake Barton
Jeremy Graves
Matthew Immergut
Eve Smith
Nancy Yates
>Nancy Yates
so this was basically written by a seething wife? sounds biased

>>13671284
>posted from his account on tmi subreddit
that's even worse than the sexual deviant part

he warned us

>>13671306
who he?

>>13670162
what if you're already like that before even trying meditation

>Rather, adultery with multiple women, some of whom are sex workers, took place over the past four years. The outcome was extended relationships with a group of about ten women. Relationships with some continue to the present day.
the Chad dharma teacher

>>13668650
Based. Broski just got a little poon tang alright alright alright.

>>13671316
is excessive libido one of the side effects of improper meditation? saw a bunch of /x/ schizos posting about it the other day

>>13669319
>Banging hookers doesn't mean you're not enlightened

Lol, for you.

>>13670162
Any buddhistfag that can actually respond to this coherently beside using the 'ego' as an insult?

>>13670162
>>13670459
>mistranslates not-self to no-self
>become a buddhist zombie

>>13671329
It depends on what you consider "enlightenment". There are degrees of it and Yates himself said gaining stage of Arahat is not the end of training, especially on the side of virtue.

>>13671333
i think most buddhists will agree that unguided meditation is dangerous, only californian retards believe it's all flowers and it can't go wrong

>>13671333
Easily. He bailed halfway and came to retarded conclusions to make an excuse to himself. Read MCTB for further guidance.

>>13671333

if he's not lying (and he probably isn't to a degree), the issue is that he failed to identify with god, and hacked away at his persona until little was left. he could just be depressed, or angry, his faith is weak, or a larp. we don't really know based off of a single post. meditation practices can certainly turn you into a lunatic if you aren't careful, and many so called teachers don't have your best interests in mind. even buddha had students commit suicide after he told them to meditate on sickness and death, danger is always present

>>13671346
still meditation books make a lot of big claims about mindfulness and the benefits of meditation, and if a guy who has gone through the path can't stop himself from banging whores and lying to his wife let me tell you mindfulness doesn't seem so impressive anymore

i meditate and was following this guy's book, but seeing this he hardly seems a reliable guide anymore

>>13671333
It's a real danger with Buddhist meditation. If that's not a sign it's demonic then I don't know what is.

>>13671346
>Yates himself said gaining stage of Arahat is not the end of training
Then Yates is a typical Western meme-buddhist faggot, which completely explains why this happened in the first place.
He's not the first one to try and downplay the significance of enlightenment so he can LARP as an arahant while clearly not having a shred of attainment.

>>13671346
the book is full of grandiloquent claims about meditation and mindfulness helping to develop universal compassion, and this guy, the teacher who developed the system and who went all the way though it, is unable to stop himself from hurting the person with whom he holds the closest loyalistic ties, having EXPLICIT bows about what is allowed and what not, not a stranger, or a guy he hates, or a small animal whatever

let me tell you, the claims to universal compassion stop being very impressive after that

>>13671386
exactly, totally dismantles the claims he makes about his own system

>>13671346
it's one thing to believe Arahats are not 100% perfect human beings, it's another to believe that their enlightenment standards don't expect them even to uphold very basic moral standards

>>13671400

anybody that studies buddhism seriously will tell you that guys is a materialist fraud that shouldn't have been trusted in the first place. false teachers will always exist

>>13671333
Every decent book about meditation always warns of its dangers, they didn’t used to but they do now. The reason bad stuff happens is that Buddhism is atheistic and not centered on love but rather on indifference. Man was made by God to know him, accept his love, and give love back in return, not to simply be indifferent. Pursuing the sort of stillness advocated by Buddhists allows demons in.

Besides, there are meditative and contemplative practices used in the West that are safer and more effective that Eastern stuff.

>>13671403
wrong and gay

>>13671333
Yes.

The standard response is that the mind's unfoldment during intensive meditation practice proceeds in ordered stages, often referred to as "dukkha nanas." Some of these stages can be unpleasant. To put a finer point on it, certain dukkha nanas can be EXTREMELY unpleasant for some practitioners. The temptation after experiencing such unpleasant phenomena is to stop doing what you're doing - because clearly you're making things worse, right? Only, the progress in practice that you've already made (as the guy in the original post testifies to) can't be reversed: it's yours to keep, whether you like it or not. The problem is twofold: you can't go in reverse, and if you stop practicing, you'll remain stuck in the shitty place where you've beached yourself, indefinitely. There are aspects of what that guy said which are simply fruits of insight, but the specifically NEGATIVE qualities, the "feeling of being permanently damaged, everything feels dull, I feel like a zombie, no emotions, unthinking" etcetera, most of this is dukkha-nana stuff, it's a temporary array of obstacles and mental patterns characteristic to the stage of unfoldment he's currently in, that he has effectively made permanent by stopping practice. The only way for him to feel better is to keep going, keep meditating, even if that temporarily makes him feel worse, you have to come out the other side. Quitting practice is actually the worst thing he could do in the situation he's in.

>>13671430
This is dharmaoverground Daniel Ingram meme shit that is not part of actual Buddhist orthodoxy.

>>13671464
I've gone through most of them myself.

>>13671469
Good for you, but that doesn't make it Buddhist.

>>13671464
>>13671476
>muh orthodoxy
Buddhist orthodoxy is an oxymoron.

>>13671485
Fine, ''dukkha nanas'' are not a part of literally any single Buddhist sect that has ever existed except for a tiny movement on an internet forum within the last 10 years. They're not Buddhist.

>>13671518
If the term is useful and applies to something that people actually experience then I don't see the problem. If it's not "Buddhist" so be it.

>>13671411
buddhism was designed for a time full of overtly empty spiritual ritualism, which is basically the opposite of what we have now, it only fuels nihilistic materialism in the current situation

>>13671526
>If it's not "Buddhist" so be it.
Then stop LARPing as a buddhist.

>>13671536
>Stop using my word! You can't use my word!
Lol.

>>13671543
I'm not a buddhist, you retard. I just hate you LARPing faggots.

>>13671518
aren't dukkha nanas part of Mahasi Sayadaw tradition? which is an innovation as you said, but not from 10 years ago and not from the internet or western

>>13671546
Is Buddhist thought closed? Is it forbidden to innovate upon it in any way? Or do you just have to be from the Eastern Hemisphere for it to be valid? It's even funnier since you admit you don't actually have any investment in it to begin with.

>>13671518
didn't the Buddha say that the Dharma would only last 1000 years? 500 years after they allowed women in the Shanga? by his own word nothing is Buddhism at this point until a new Buddha comes to renew the Dharma

based culadasa
do you think he skillfully examined his intentions before banging the hookers?

it's all ogre now

>>13671552
The Buddha can go fuck himself.

>>13671518
Dukkha nanas are knowledges described in Visudhimagga.

>>13671464
What’s wrong with Daniel Ingram?

>>13671554
>tfw when skillfully slipping your cock into a tight pussy being mindfully aware of all the empty physical sensations and reaching 4th jhana while climaxing

>>13671548
>Here is Idea X
>This is an innovation! It is not orthodox!
>I'm just going to teach it anyway, okay?
>...
>2,000 years later
>How dare you contradict Idea X!
>Idea X is an ancient part of orthodoxy!

>>13671561
söyboy NPC

>>13671551
>Is Buddhist thought closed? Is it forbidden to innovate upon it in any way?
Within a Buddhist context, yes. The Buddha was pretty clear about the fact that he had it all figured out, and the path he laid out was the only correct one and everybody else was a dumb retard and soon after his death (soon is several hundred years in this context) his teachings would deteriorate (guess he got that one right).
>>13671561
See pic related.

>>13671580
If his teachings have deteriorated, then his teachings that his teachings will deteriorate has deteriorated and is not reliable.

>>13671580
Then there are no Buddhists. Good job.

really disappointing, i guess catholics were right all along

OHNONONO BODHIDHARMA SAVE ME

>>13671657
this
kids all the way

Is there a difference between hindu and buddhist meditation?

>>13671657
I wonder if the Catholics have experienced any recent moral failures on the part of their clergy.

>>13671657
what? is diddling kids the superior lapse in good conduct or something?

>>13671766
>>13671775
Man's immorality and imperfection at all levels is baked into catholicism, buddhism makes outrageous claims about perfection in life that their most advanced meditators systematically fail to demonstrate

>>13671892
>Don't worry that our clergy went around raping children en mass, dude, we teach that people are imperfect so it's not a theological problem ;)
Catholics never fail to disgust me.

What is a good book for meditation practice then? I read the suttas/sutras when I can, but could use supplements. I wish to be a bodhisattva. Thank you and have a wonderful day.

>>13672033
Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha
The Mind Illuminated

>>13672033
The Mind Illuminated has a great troubleshooting
don't let some hookers ruin it for you

>>13672044

>>13672056
Thank you. I will practice towards my own salvation dilligently.

>>13671386
Yates ordination isn't even valid, the person he fraudulently claims to have been ordained by are Chinese pretenders to the Karma Kagyu lineage.

so much for mindfulness, at this point it seems all their claims have dissolved and only the "subjective non-suffering" meme if defensible, if you believe their subjective claims that so far have been false

>>13669118
There is always just doing your own spiritual work instead of jacking off to books on the subject.

>>13669118
There is always Pannobhasa Bhikkhu...

>>13672578
sounds like liberalism

>>13672588
sounds like a glorified Joe Rogan

>>13671229
based alcoholic

>>13669118
Unfortunately there aren't any. Like with most things, the more you are interested into something and dig deeper, the less people you can find to talk to. Most of the "mainstream" ones, tend to turn into a not-for-profit organizations. You can use them just to get small nuggets, but that is all. For more serious studies, you will have to either travel to the place where the philosophy originated and find a teacher/enter a temple/monastery, or you simply learn the language of the scriptures, and unlock the mysteries by yourself (this is called having no teacher). Like religion, philosophy is also the same. You choose a path and you dedicate yourself towards it. It is a long road.

>>13672602
Classical liberalism, and just a touch fashy.

http://politicallyincorrect.blogspot.com/2019/08/liberal-western-buddhism-as-white.html

any good replacement books for TMI? someone recommended pic related, but want to confirm it's not written by a crazy heroin junkie first

>>13668692
show me a western organization that fires married men for visiting prostitutes. based and wholesome af.

>>13671329
Clearly he's never heard of Ikkyu. If he wasn't drunk off his ass at a sake house he was banging a whore. That is until he fell for some chick and spent the rest of his life banging away on her and writing 2 Live Crew level Zen poetry about it.

>>13669423
not horse shit, neurology. it's gradually turning yourself into a full-NPC sociopath, which is extremely pleasant at the beginning and end (not middle) because consciousness=pain.

not a recommendation. jews do the same with kabbalah, theosophists/freemasons/scientologists have their own cobbled together methods for same.

first breakthrough is turning off linguistic thought briefly, experiencing symbol-less existence (like a preverbal child). buddhists and yogis do this by clearing their mind, kabbalists do it by overloading their pun-generating circuitry until the whole thing blanks out for a moment.

most groups at this point then they sell you on that experience as a glimpse of mystical whatever, and do the normal cult thing.

if you go on from there you learn to manipulate your brain into brief seizure-like states that are a bit like drug effects (i.e. free cocaine high if you ramp up your dopamine, which you can do by paying real close attention to certain interoceptive sensations).

as you start to do this more and more often, you wind up addicted to jhanas, and crash more and more often. you can't go back to not knowing how to get high for free, so you just want to 'get off the wheel' -- i.e. stop suffering.

at this point, every sensation is suffering, and lots of ppl go insane. dark night of the soul, da'at, &c.

if you continue forward, you start dismantling aspects of your consciousness until you're unconscious, but still alive -- alternative to suicide.

the more respectable sort of monasteries make sure ppl spend DECADES meditating on peaceful niceness before they go 'all the way' and turn off their qualia forever. people who do this prematurely will literally kill without a thought. also tend to get the same weird dyslexia/aphasia/spoonerisms sociopaths show.

some hardcore theravada monks just do straight dry vipassana (insight) meditation without all the compassion crap. they wind up like /b/tards, it's nuts -- google it, they laugh at the wagies and masturbate on corpses all day.

(some forms of) christianity has a different attitude towards suffering, in that it can be holy instead of inherently evil. if all suffering is bad, and all perception is suffering, the idea of turning of perception for good (like the peak of an acid trip, forever) gets v. appealing.

if you have gotten halfway thru one of these 'enlightenment' paths and want to do something other than progress towards void, The Interior Castle and The Cloud of Unknowing are good places to start.

tl;dr learn to control your own nervous system well enough and you tend to want to do nothing but turn it off.

>>13673040
big if true
jhana junkie here

>>13673040
hilarious post

>>13673040
one of the most lucid posts on this subject I’ve read.

may i ask, how did you come to such a cross-traditional understanding? ive been trying to assimilate the same intuition myself. where can i go to learn more (or perhaps, to begin).

and knowing this, would you still apply any elements of mindfulness / mysticism in your own life (say, 15 minutes of meditation a day) or swear off it entirely?

>>13673040
holy kek

>>13671485
*Ahem*

>>13673192
>one of the most lucid posts on this subject I’ve read.
lol

>>13673154
Cringe

>>13673296
lol

>>13668650
This is why you should stay away all "spiritual teachers". Only actual monks and ascetics should be venerated as teachers.
>>13672607
I've never seen Joe Rogan do gif related

>>13671766
Christians don't claim to be perfecti, that's the Messelian heresy that Buddhists commit. All persons are capable of sin and there is a positive requirement of humility to be aware of your continued sinfulness.
>For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. - Psalms 51:3

>>13673192
is this what people talk about on /x/

Even if it's true, you can't discredit his contributions to meditation teachings based solely on his character. Chogyam Trungpa similarly debauched himself and renounced his monastic vows, but you'd be hardpressed to find people that would say he was not a master and offered a treasury of wisdom.

>>13673040
The harsh but true truth. As the buddha himself once answered his student on what to do after reaching enlightenment: "I'm hungry... wanna get some food then fuck? Don't worry I have zero bias, I can be a top and bottom."

>>13673337
TMI book is full of assertions about mindfulness giving mental clarity, strength of mind, enhanced ability to solve problems and increased compassion for all beings, ease to resist temptations, ... And apparently the guy who systematized the method and went through it is unable to uphold basic morality, or EXPLICIT vows, or from cheating on his wife with 10 whores spending the Patreon bucks he got by selling his method.

i mean if you are going to sell the method just say it's purely about removing self-suffering while remaining a piece of shit human being, but don't try to sell all the other """benefits""" of meditation which are transparently fake. At least of this method.

>>13673319
Joe Rogan is a gateway to the alt-right

what’s with all the moralfags in this thread

What can meditation actually do for you?

Let’s detach it from the morality bullshit. What neurological and psychological changes will one get from following a simple mantra such as “focus on the breath” for X minutes a day for Y days?

This should be of interest to all.

>>13671333
As the reader may have noticed, the replies to this post are unsatisfactory. This is because human beings and buddhists (indeed, the distinction is apt) don't share in one very important assumption: suffering is to be eliminated. As any whole human being knows, to be human is to suffer, it is standing face-to-face with God, acknowledging Him, Him acknowledging You. To kill this, to "kill your self" as buddhists so accurately put it, does not only throw life away, but worse still, it is to throw love away. One can imagine buddha observing one of those countless banal tragedies in China or India where life is cheap, a man slipping on his own feces to fall head first before a moving truck, a mother being crushed inside an escalator due to flimsy safety regulations, a semi driving straight through a family living only the youngest child alive, and think: "Ah, perfection."

The appropriate reaction to buddhism and all meditation is to feel a modicum of disgust and quickly distance yourself from the now-soulless practicioner. They are forsaken by God.

>>13673421
if you want to sell a path that doesn't claim explicitly to uphold moral values that's fine, if you are going to sell a path full of memes about compassion and virtue and the power of mindfulness to support that virtue, and the master proves to be really bad at that, you have to question if he is really good at anything else he is selling too. At the end of the day you only have his word for it, and his word seems to be garbage

>>13673402
Didn't Buddha teach that women were incapable of attaining enlightenment and akin to animal souls? Why is there any obligation to women to be loyal, it's not as if an actual human is harmed? The only crime is if the act inhibits a being who has the capacity to attain enlightenment i.e. the man.

What makes a women different to a bed sheet after a wet dream, they're both stuck in the cycle of reincarnation and suffering, why do they matter?

>>13673483
Sila (virtue) is an integral part of Buddhism and Culadasa took explicit vows, if you want to follow your own "women are whores ebin path to enlightenment" that's great, but don't try to sell it as something else

>>13673446
Increase gray matter in areas regarding self-awareness, decreased gray matter in others. Like the handcuffs and various restraints during lobotomy, you will be aware of and actively suppress all uncomfortable thoughts your self will bring regarding your imminent and rapid deterioration, until at last you will reach enlightenment, or in more coloquial terms, you'll be braindead.

>>13670162
You are supposed to use these meditation techniques to remove "unwanted noise" from your mind so you can focus it towards using it for the important things: Life plans, goals, etc etc. It appears your mind was all noise and no use. You never had any real ambitions and were distracted in your day to day by a myriad of bullshit thoughts that just entertained you enough to not realize the emptiness you already had in your mind. Once the noise went out there was only silence, for you really didn't have anything to do with your life, it was all already a set up routine long time ago. Many such cases.

In short, get a life. You didn't have one.

>>13673533
And who's to put the limit on which thoughts are wanted and which are not? The self? In the first place desire is the source of suffering. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

So will we remove him from the chart now? Was the accepting of (((western))) "Buddhists" into /lit/ just another liberal and misguided sense of compassion? And how do we keep /lit/ pure from California Dharma influences in the future?

Should all books not written by long ago dead Aryan men be removed?

>>13673574
The book still works, even if there's a risk of banging hookers at stage 10

>>13673460
Imagine trying to be a someone else that is a non-self. What is wrong with Buddhists, the worst kind of escapism: "I don't want to suffer so I'll cower in terror at the face of the world and pretend I don't exist." Why can't Buddhists accept the sickness of life?

>>13673574
Well, his claims about the external benefits of his method are fake, maybe the internal benefits are true. On the other side he had no issue lying to his wife and using Patreon bucks to pay for whores after taking explicit vows about "right speech", so hard to take his words at face value...

>>13673533
>Many such cases.

>>13673558
Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about.

>>13673598
if it really works, it works to reduce self-suffering, it's clear the other claims about mindfulness are either false or REALLY underwhelming. i guess if all you care about is selfish reduction of self-suffering (and you believe the guy is credible enough to buy this part of his method) it may be an attractive path, but at that point heroin may be too

steve jobs used meditation for the same purpose, adjustment of neural parameters for personal gain

meditation is based, this shows that it can unironically help you thrive in a capitalist setting, moralfags BTFO

>>13673627
Yeah, you clearly don't. The fact you put meditation and ambition hand in hand is laughable. Just because you like to take a few deep breaths after a long day wagecucking doesn't mean you meditate.

Would have been more kino if he was caught fucking \ being fucked by Thai ladyboys.

>>13669118
monks

>>13673678
Of course I don't. After all, meditation is such a big deal. I wish one day I'll be proficient enough at this to even DARE to call myself a meditator, sensei-sama.
If only I had a glimpse of an insight on how to meditate as you do, oh elevated being! The moon, the sun and stars would bow before me!

>>13673672
That's what I do. It helps me a lot to focus in my goals as a lay person and get rid of the bullshit thoughts that distract me from killing it.
Anyone else who uses meditation for anything other than mundane gain without being a monk is severely misguided.

>>13673636
From the reports of people useig them, I found drugs to be a really bad method of attaining happiness.

>>13671333
the parts of MCTB about how high achievements of Awakening do not completely purify your psychology/morality (the limited action models) continue to seem more and more compelling.
That or the explanation that layman cannot be Arahants is more and more obvious

>>13673745
but the reports about the benefits of mindfulness from the guy who developed the method turned out to be false

>>13671333
the idea that meditation is for the purpose of making you only experience pleasure is western misconception baloney.
Meditation is not for making you feel good but to come to terms with the reality of your experience in all its pain and pleasure.
Stopping meditation as soon as it gets bad is, like others said, unhelpful and not very smart - this is why the maps (such as the Progress of Insight) are very very important for people to understand what the road is like, so they don't stop when it gets tough

TMI ruined my practice

I was making a lot of progress when I just focused on the breath with a timer

TMI introduced all sorts of stage autism that just hindered me

In retrospect it's apparent that TMI was likely a cult. 10 linear "stages"? Promises of the ability for laymen to achieve enlightenment in under two years? Holy fucking shit.

Already speculation to this effect on their subreddit. Can't believe /lit/ fell for this meme as well, included it in the fucking Buddhism charts

>>13671464
the dukkha nyanas are present in the Visuddhimagga
it is extremely orthodox

>>13673760
arguably, but MCTB still will make claims about mindfulness having benefits, even if he then afterwards writes a chapter saying the 3 practices are separated, he has plenty of parts where they are assumed to support each other, but apparently developing high level mindfulness won't even prevent you from very low level morality traps

i mean if you are going to sell meditation as a selfish method to reduce self-suffering and nothing else that's fine, but even MCTB Daniel Ingram sells stuff about compassion which we see time and time again seem to be empirically missing in buddhism meditation, at least as developed by westerners

>>13673797
Cut them some slack, it's easy for desperate men to fall into such traps. At the very least it's not as harmful as some others.

>>13673797
>a cult
>literally download a pdf for free
i mean Culadasa was milking NEETs for Patreonbux to pay for whores, but he seems a standard internet grifter, not a cult leader in any meaningful sense

he wasn't even banging students, but literally paying whores for sex, what's the point of being a cult leader if you won't even get sex

>>13673797
>TMI introduced all sorts of stage autism that just hindered me
that assumes you would have made progress otherwise, which seems like an assumption

but yeah, TMI not very credible anymore

>>13673574
absolutely remove it from the chart and replace it with a work by a monk
To be honest, even With Each and Every Breath by Thanissaro Bhikkhu combined with Right Concentration should be sufficient

>>13673854
what are those? orthodox Theravada?

>enlightened
>cumbrain
Pick one and only one. Can't believe I actually paid real money for this semen addled hedonist. I feel duped. I feel betrayed. But I see the lesson here, I can only follow my way, at least my mistakes would be my own.

>>13673866
>But I see the lesson here, I can only follow my way, at least my mistakes would be my own.
sounds like you are just retreating back to normie liberalism

>>13673875
Call it what you will. I'm done playing rhetoric.

>>13673859
With Each and Every Breath is by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, orthodox Theravada
Right Concentration is also pretty orthodox but it's written by a layman (sourced exclusively from the Pali suttas though)
TMI is essentially 50% Vajrayana

remember that time /lit/ collectively fell for a literal cult?

>>13673761
The reports about the benefits of TMI method in alleviating suffering significantly are numerous, and it's the main reason I follow the book.

>>13673938
Are you saying Buddhism is a cult or is it something I missed?

>>13673952
so are the reports of the benefits of the beer method in alleviating suffering significantly. let's see how they hold up to closer inspection

>>13673953
TMI / Culadasa's "10 step" Dharma Treasure = cult

This was more or less an appropriation of Buddhism for duping "rationalist" Western basedboys (who, ironically enough, would see themselves as the least vulnerable group in these types of matters)

>>13673797
>>13673833
>implying that TMI's stages autism isn't its best quality
building skillful concentration is obviously non-linear but the gradual introduction of concepts and techniques is helpful at least for me

>>13673988
High onions levels created a dissatisfaction with life, which they thought could be fixed with Culadasa's piecemeal nihilism a la autism

>>13673952
Jesus, if I didn't know any better I'd say this post is some made-up anecdote from some obscure scammy cult's homepage from the early 2000s. Face it man, you fell for it, I fell for it, many of us fell for it, it was an incredibly convincing scam and it was apolitical too, but in the end a scam is a scam is a scam. Today's events have made it clear it's time to move on in search of higher truths.

>>13673949
>>13673949
>>13673949

>>13674031
No shit, the book was written to cater to the autistic mind

The book reinforces a problematic tendency for the basedboys to retreat into the safety of a theoretical framework and established benchmarks rather than brace the uncertainty of empirical and subjective experience that is so important to any actual practice, and to life in general; to take advantage of them, "Culadasa" offered an attractive "in" to spirituality that allowed them to proceed without discarding their worst bugman traits; a truly Californian spirituality indeed.

>>13673972
That can by said about any tradition/system claiming that.
>>13674033
Face it that methods in book still work. They are not his original inventions. You fell for 'muh infallible teacher' meme.

>>13673938
We Guenon-reading patricians never fell for such decadent moderist nonsense to begin with

>>13674050
You retards all fell for it: I, too, could become enlightened, in the same manner that I grind my useless STEMcel technicals that represent the totality of what I can do in life; 10x coder becomes 10x meditator; Buddhism as a sub-discipline of engineering.

Instead of reading The Bible you gave yourself away to a nasty old man who used you to ejaculate his short-telomere semen all over degenerate whores

The fool and his soul are easily parted. Congratulations on your possession by the devil.

>>13670162
>>13670170
Its called dark night of the soul, please read Mastering the core teachings of the buddha. Maybey find a good teacher and you can get easily through and feel better again. Its just an impermanent phase

>>13674058
So we are to do as he says, not as he does, but how did he know what to say if he's never done, and knowing that he has done then how worthless that doing must have been to result in the severe and continuous parody of its own foundation.

>>13674094
>this bankrupty is simply an unpleasant but temporary hurdle, all who continued believing in our vision and bought even more merchandise to sell to newcomers have prospered. many such cases!

>>13674060
Good we live in modern times, when people are skeptic of gurus and have better means of collecting evidence. Guenon and all before him lived in easier times. Remember that Yates wrote a good meditation guide.
>>13674097
Maybe he's so free of suffering he bypasses such minor thing like Sila with ease lol

what culadasa's taste in whores could be like? similar to her wife or quite the opposite?

>>13674058
nobody expected the guy to be perfect, but from perfect to "cheating on my wife with 10 whores by stealing Patreon bucks" there's a big stretch, the book claims that mindfulness produces benefits in terms of compassion way before you get anywhere near enlightenment, if he is wrong about that the system doesn't seem to stand on solid ground

I’m basically doing meditation for brain benefits I’ve heard about. Now I’m reading this, I have no interest in reducing suffering or shit like that. What does meditation actually do

>>13674397
well, who knows, there were some supposed benefits of mindfulness on the "scientific western" camp of buddhism, but at this point they all seem deflated and the only thing that remains is that "if you do it long enough and you are lucky maybe you dissolve your ego and stop suffering"

>>13674442
Fuck dissolving my ego, I like it. I can be kind and compassionate while still having a self concept

>>13674450
No, no, you don't get it. Everything is impermanent. Be compassionate for humanity, not for humans, how else are you going to cheat on your wife with a dozen whores? You must meditate some more to reach these insights.

SHINZEN YOUNG PLEASE SAVE ME

>>13674450
Of course you love your ego, you're built like that. We live in a social world and being fully invested in how people perceive you is what makes you effective. We're not wearing masks, we are masks. Think of the butterfly with eyes on its wings. It doesn't question the eyes or their effectiveness, they're just there when they fold out their wings.

>>13674605
made me kek, is he clean so far?

>>13674338
could be worst, could be trannies

>>13674664
afaik

what cult to join now?

>>13673040
>some hardcore theravada monks just do straight dry vipassana (insight) meditation without all the compassion crap. they wind up like /b/tards, it's nuts -- google it, they laugh at the wagies and masturbate on corpses all day.
Is this true?

>>13672958
To be honest no Eastern organisation would hold to their standards like this either. It's in a sweet spot of being clearly established but not so well-established.

>>13673297
>>13675648
>just spout completely wrong and infantile shit, and refuse to study the matter
cringe indeed

>>13673040

Come talk about Dharma with us!

https://discord.gg/az3CXnJ

>>13675699
>To be honest no Eastern organisation would hold to their standards like this either
Hindu monastic orders that still live the same possessionless lifestyle that they did a thousand years ago like the Dashnami Sampradaya do

>>13673533
>You are supposed to use these meditation techniques to remove "unwanted noise" from your mind so you can focus it towards using it for the important things: Life plans, goals, etc etc.
I'm no expert, but that does not sound right at all.