/lit/ - Literature

>>13645853
evil exists therefore we have free will

>>13645877

how?

>>13645853
Do you really have free will if you cannot do evil?

>>13645853
It doesn't matter

>>13645853
No, just people who do good and bad things.

>>13645877
Evil exists as an affect of entropy. You are no more autonomous than a dog. >>13645900
Free will does not exist. All actions are reflexes of a previous action.

If it’s free will then evil is the persons responsibility and he should be held accountable

If it all determinism evil is circumstantial. If you want to avoid further evil, execution of one isn’t going to fix the problem of evil. You have to solve the problems that caused evil to flourish.

It seems pretty obvious that the latter is the case. The former never eradicated evil and never will.

But the mind bent on vengeance says “Wait! Someone has to be held accountable”, bloody minded fools they are, do we let the crazies go? Of course not. We want ideal civilization to take root... If it can. Can’t it?
Do hard determinist believe a hypothetical utopian world is possible?

Why do people still converse in absolute terms well after the advent of relativity in both philosophy and the sciences?

The statements "there is free will" and "there is no free will" are absolutes, and they have no place in our universe, besides as inaccuracies. Free will, like all other measurements, is relative. There are more-free wills and less-free wills in our universe; there are no free or unfree wills. Following from this logically, there are only more-evil wills and less-evil wills.

>>13646411
Stop spamming and get a life

>>13646502
Answer the question

>>13646411
very based post butterfly, and I usually never agree with you.

>>13646535
kys butterfly

>>13646411
Utopia is impossible, human nature is to build and then corrupt, endlessly. No perfect society could ever exist for longer than a few generations, max, because there will always be people looking to game the system, take advantage of others, or profit off of vice and weak morality. It's not everyone, its probably a minority, but there are enough out there to ensure that as old problems are solved, new ones will always appear.

Also, I disagree with your assessment. A particular evil action, like murder or rape, is obviously the fault of the individual perpetrator, but just because they chose to do it doesn't mean there are no social, economic or cultural factors that influenced them into making that decision, and a lot of those factors are influenced by the personal decisions of people in power.

>An old homeless man, Joe King, stabbed a pedestrian with a broken bottle at 2 am
>because he was high as fuck
>because his dad threw him out of the house at 15
>because he was gay
>and one thing led to another on the street and now he does meth for days at a time
>because theres an amphetamine problem in the city
>because gangs are powerful
>because cops are corrupt
>because politicians dont care
>because corporations dont lobby for poor people
>because Wilhelm Eugene Reginaldhausen Jr. Esq. got beaten by his dad
>because he wore his mom's lingerie and makeup
>and now that hes on the board of directors at F.U. Pharmaceuticals hes just looking out for number one oh yeah just like his old man.

"The Root of All Evil" is actually free will, but that's not the point, because every single good thing is the result of just the same sort of complicated series of events that begin and end with decisions made by individuals.

So yeah, thanks for your midwit opinion butt-fly.

>>13645877
Evil is weeds in a garden

>>13646411
>butterfly realizes her belief in free will conflicts with her lefty beliefs
Where are you on the just world hypothesis now?

If morality is objective (i.e. mind-independent) then free will has nothing to do with it.

Because it is the action (states of affairs) per se that is morally bad and not the intention of a conscious subject. So yes you can be deterministically disposed to do evil.

Without free will, with knowledge of our determinism one is not judged morally for their actions but selected on an axiom of efficiency.

>>13645877

>>13645853
The term evil is only a word used to describe negative emotional reactions. There isn't actually an "evil" which exists inherently in human nature. Since the beginning of life, when primordial molecules connected and formed the first biological proteins, all biological lifeforms have been chemical reactions. It's ignorant to think that life is somehow responsible in some grander scheme for its own actions, and it arises from a view of humans as more than the sum of their parts. Leave it to humans to not understand themselves or one another.

>>13645853
ever heard about 'frevil'?

>>13646411
Please cuddle me until I fall asleep

>>13646888
You bring a lot of wrongheaded baggage over this silly shorthand term “lefty” and misunderstand what I’m getting at concerning “utopias”.

>>13646863
>A particular evil action, like murder or rape, is obviously the fault of the individual perpetrator, but just because they chose to do it doesn't mean there are no social, economic or cultural factors that influenced them into making that decision
Again, a society striving towards perfection will solve these factors. The profiteering eliminated, the “morality” taught to all more effectively than ever. But the utopian achieved, you claim it wont last and you seem to tip your hat to “the root of all evil” free will. There’s your answer than, thanks.
>midwit
It’s more of a survey question, anon. Your answer is free will, yes?

I was hoping for a little more input, but I’ll reveal my “midwit” non-philosophy students take.
I don’t believe in an achievable utopian, but not because there’s absolute free will, but because it’s Compatibalism. Like this anon points to >>13646478 Hard determinism facilitates the utopian ideal. Make your religion real, Determinists. I dare you.


>>13646549
Wasn’t me. I was showering at the time.

>>13647572
London?

>>13647954
Why do you keep using a trip code

>>13647975
Because anon thinks it’s funny to impersonate

>>13646374
>a picture of a book proves all my wild claims
lmao

>>13647983
i love you butterfly

>>13645877
Peak brainlet burgerpunk

>>13646411
You’re an undercover Calvinfag aren’t you?

>>13649400
--> >>13647954
It's a question, anon. I don't even know what Calvin was. What are your thoughts and why?

>>13647313
You sound like Bill Nye or black Bill Nye

>>13645853
If free will doesn’t exist, we shouldn’t punish criminals.

>>13645853
How can you say that if you don't have free will?
Be honest, your intuition states that you do have such. Your brainletism opposes it. Choose which one to follow (since you can).

>>13645853
What does consciousness do if there is no free will? To whom does it cast its illusions to, and for what purpose does it waste so much energy when running as a subconscious reflex-machine would do just fine?

>>13646411
>If you want to avoid further evil, execution of one isn’t going to fix the problem of evil. You have to solve the problems that caused evil to flourish.
Ugliness is the platonic form of evil; the argument and act against existence.
>It seems pretty obvious that the latter is the case.
This has never worked. Evil changes shape as it is chased.
>The former never eradicated evil and never will.
The purpose is not to 'eradicate evil'. You should eradicate all humans to do that.

I don't know. You tell me.

Or can't you? … muahahhahahahha

>>13649655
Another for free will.

Where’s all the determinists?

Can you really be good if you don't have free will?

>>13646411
>Do hard determinist believe a hypothetical utopian world is possible?

the word utopia has two definitions
everybody knows the first one but the second definition means "place that cannot be"