/lit/ - Literature

the Bible

>>13625056
Beat me to it dammit

>>13625056
Son of a—!

Yes but the series is extremely comfy.

>>13625053
Name 1 (one) plot hole.

>>13625090
Not making yourself the secret keeper when it's strictly better than making anyone else the secret keeper.

>>13625090
Fred and George gave the map to Harry in his 3rd year, and before this point, they should have been able to tell that Scabbers was Pettigrew. Additionally, Harry conveniently only opened the map in 4th year when Barty was in his office, allowing him to keep assuming that Crouch Sr. was meeting with "Moody".
They never use the Time Turners to solve any problems between 3rd year (their introduction) and 5th year (their destruction) other than for the saving of Buckbeak.
Why did Dumbledore have the invisibility cloak? If James had had it, he could have escaped Godric's Hollow with Lily and Harry, but Dumbles had it at the time. Furthermore, why did he give it to Harry at age 11 when all he was going to use it for was breaking school rules? Why did he give it at all when we know that Dumbles has a fetish for the Hallows?
Why didn't Voldemort make Horcruxes out of mundane objects and hide them in obscure places? For fuck's sake, put a part of your soul in a rock and throw it in the sea, don't put it in the Founder's artifacts and a goddamn mortal snake.
At what point does Lily think to herself "hmmm, this man who bullied my friend for existing for years seems pretty cute, I'm going to marry him"? I get that Snape fucked up, but that doesn't change the fact that James was an utter asshat.
There's probably more, but those are the big one's I can think of off the top of my head not counting the anon above me.

>>13625138
>Why didn't Voldemort make Horcruxes out of mundane objects and hide them in obscure places? For fuck's sake, put a part of your soul in a rock and throw it in the sea, don't put it in the Founder's artifacts and a goddamn mortal snake.
I think they explained it as Voldy wanting his horcruxes special too just as he is but it's still stupid. Considering his life depended on this, he should have focused more on practicality.

>>13625138
>At what point does Lily think to herself "hmmm, this man who bullied my friend for existing for years seems pretty cute, I'm going to marry him"?
Don't wanna be the incel of the thread, but welcome to women amd their bullshit

>>13625301
snape was as bad as James though, he was a dick too, probably even worse, he just wasn't popular. I think in the end he was a good person, because choosing to do good despite being basically prone to being an asshole, and his shitty life, takes an amount of will and morality that exists in almost nobody. Pretty much everyone would not repent from that, because it hurts so much to see all the evil shit you've done, which is another major theme of that series, you can only fix the horcrux through remorse. But he was still a malicious person in nature, he just had an impulse towards good in him, which he tied to Lily, and which fought for above anything else in the end. His redemption is the most beautiful part of that entire series imo, he was a broken, fucked up person, who couldnt make himself be good to others, but could still utlimately overcome his evil in the situations that really mattered. It's like the devil fighting for good even if he hurts everyone around him through his nature.

Lily wasn't even vaguely wrong to prefer James, everyone likes the charismatic and beautiful, and he didn't do anything near as bad as what snape was planning to do and did.

you could hate women just as much for choosing to be with men like snape who just have more power, and it attracts them, but what is the point? men like evil women who attract them too, it's not exactly limited to one gender. Humans have a million terrible impulses, and focusing on just one of them, many women liking powerful jerks, is a recipe for incel shit percolating in your mind.

cant believe i wrote this much about harry fucking potter of all things.

>>13625056
touche

>>13625138
>Fred and George gave the map to Harry in his 3rd year, and before this point, they should have been able to tell that Scabbers was Pettigrew.
Never caught this, that’s an awful plot hole

>>13625364
>cant believe i wrote this much about harry fucking potter of all things.
the Harry Potter bandwagon of hatred on this board is honestly blown out of proportion. the series has good qualities, and it is actually complex enough to write about in regards to themes and characterizations
it's not as good as its popularity would imply, but honestly, there shouldn't be as much stigma as there is against writing seriously about Harry Potter

>>13625138
>Why did Dumbledore have the invisibility cloak? If James had had it, he could have escaped Godric's Hollow with Lily and Harry, but Dumbles had it at the time. Furthermore, why did he give it to Harry at age 11 when all he was going to use it for was breaking school rules? Why did he give it at all when we know that Dumbles has a fetish for the Hallows?

apparently:
"Around the time that Lord Voldemort was hunting the Potters for their son, the Cloak of Invisibility came to the attention of Albus Dumbledore when James showed him the Cloak. Dumbledore, who had searched for the Deathly Hallows in youth, asked to borrow the Cloak from James to study it. After James was killed, the Cloak was left in Dumbledore's possession. "

not sure which of the books is the source.
most of the points are valid. It's just a matter of fact that when you write books with super powerful items like the Marauder's Map or magic like the Fidelius Charm, nothing will stand up to scrutiny. It's just the price of writing that kind of stuff. Considering the content of the books, JKR did a fantastic job not having the plot holes be glaring: they're everywhere, but you only see them if you look for them. The only way she could have written the books without as many plotholes would have been to nerf all the magic spells and items into the ground. There is just no way to write a completely perfect cohesive adventure magic book.

>>13625560
you're probably right

>>13625572
>The only way she could have written the books without as many plotholes would have been to nerf all the magic spells and items into the ground. There is just no way to write a completely perfect cohesive adventure magic book.
while he is a meme, Brandon Sanderson proves otherwise. writers of """"""""""rational fiction"""""""""" also try to fix this, but honestly, the only work from the genre worth reading is Madoka Magica To the Stars, which isn't even published/publishable

>implying I've read this garbage

>>13625560
I agree, Harry Potter might be weak in plot consistency but it has many other strengths like world building and characterization. It seems Harry Potter haters are people who only know how to criticize plot holes which are legitimate faults but not the only thing that matters.

Seriously, if plot consistency is all that matters then my grandfather's journal would be the greatest masterpiece in all literature. As it's based in real life, the plot is as consistent as it gets but his mundane life is a bore to read.

>>13625584
>Brandon Sanderson
I'll have to check it out, but I assume very strongly that his writing doesn't have the combination of brevity, accessibility, and magical power that the Mainline Potter books have. If he has some well crafted Magical Universe with very powerful abilities (time- and will-bending), and very few plotholes, it is almost certainly because some passages in his books will read like DnD players handbooks.
From just a glance, it seems that instead of making light, passing regards to the magical mechanization of his universe he is much more explicit, with all kinds of rules and constructs.

Let me expand and clarify my previous statement:
It would not be possible to write a youth-accessible series with magical items and abilities as powerful as those in the Potter universe, without plotholes, unless the author spent many more pages on exhaustive explicitness, explaining all kinds of information that slows the story down in an autistic attempt to avoid plotholes.

What I mean is, JKR did a good job balancing all the variables: having a quick and implicit explanation of the magic in her world while not gumming everything up. The magical items and spells needed to be as powerful as they were to capture the imagination and interest of the reader. The books needed to somewhat brief, not getting weighed down in multi-page explanations of the "rules" surrounding each bit of magic. The amount of plot holes in Harry Potter books is necessary to give the books their brevity and pacing. for the millions of people who read the books, almost no one is going to stop reading and give up on the series because they are annoyed that there are plot holes everywhere.

>>13625626
that's fair

>>13625138
>Time Turners
When i was a kid i hated the third book. It's the only one i don't own lmao. I like good time travel stories, but ffs that was the laziest bullshit time travel mechanic ever. I never understood how so many of my peers said it was their favorite. I mean, i liked Sirius and Lupin, but that doesn't excuse the bullshit.
I was a fan of the series growing up, and the first 2 books sparked my interest in reading, but i don't know how i'd go about it with my kids one day. I might just give them the Hobbit instead, i remember thinking "this is much better than HP" while reading it. Coincidentally i haven't read much fantasy beyond that.
>>13625560
I think it's not hating HP in and of itself, it's hating the fucking fans. When you dig a little deeper often people don't really hate a thing, they just hate the people who like that thing. I know i hate asking a girl what her favorite book is, or god forbid movie, and hearing Harry Potter.
For many of them books start and end with HP, on rare occasion they've read Twilight or the Hunger games.
Same goes for the types of people who've pretty much only read the Stranger or 1984. Great books but if they're the only ones you can talk about, you're just a pretentious asshole, and i'm not gatekeeping here.
Baby's first ____ shouldn't be an insult, but please read a little more, you are the reason those books get labeled as such.

>>13625560
>>13625576
This board really is fucking gone to shit. "Writing seriously". Fucks sake

>>13625083
you disgusting tranny. no one likes you

>>13625053
The sixth sense
> they see what they wanna see

Harry Potter
> It's a world full of magic

Neither have any possibly unexplainable plotholes. Rowling is a genius

>>13625713
she's a mother of 2 you moron

>>13625138
Most of these points aren’t really “plot holes” but rather critiques of imperfect characters or ignorance of deeper motives.
>At what point does Lily think to herself "hmmm, this man who bullied my friend for existing for years seems pretty cute, I'm going to marry him"? I get that Snape fucked up, but that doesn't change the fact that James was an utter asshat.
This is just JK Rowling sharing the redpill.

>>13625676
I agree that the time turners are the weak point in the third book, and probably the weakest point in the series.
Even without all the collateral damage they do to the rest of the Potter setting (meaning, why don't we see the use of time travel much anywhere else in the universe), their place in book 3 itself feels forced. The mechanic shows up at the end to help move the plot along. Of course the ending of 3 had a couple of really fantastic moments, the thing that happens with the dementors had a bit of magic to the way it happened, really fantastic, and the time turners are the unfortunate necessity.

I remember really liking the third book. If I remember correctly, it has FANTASTIC atmosphere and description of settings. In some of the other books the settings aren't as good, and it the later books she doesn't have enough time to spend a few sentences describing the way an afternoon feels. But the third book had really beautifully descriptions of settings, and JKR had enough space in the story to throw in a bunch of fun slice-of-life stuff in the middle of the story while still keeping things moving.

I haven't read the book in about a decade and a half, I can tell you that when I hear "Harry Potter 3" I think about the great descriptions of the summertime walks around the lake, or the whipping willow. I think the atmosphere and description of the dusty dark house at the end of the book where the climax occurs, it built the tension really well into a big story reveal.

>>13625053
>picks on books made for literal children
>BU--BUT EGGS AND HAM CAN'T BE GREEN

>>13625713
>No Christian likes you
GOOD

>>13625723
No way.
Was carrying on with a mother of two not to long ago

>>13625083
literally tumblr girl im so random teehee the movie

>>13627107
> Was carrying on with a mother of two

>>13625138
>At what point does Lily think to herself "hmmm, this man who bullied my friend for existing for years seems pretty cute, I'm going to marry him"? I get that Snape fucked up, but that doesn't change the fact that James was an utter asshat.
I agree with the rest, but that point is the best red-pill thing the piece of shit author – probably inadvertently – put into her story.

>>13625053
They are books meant for kids and teenagers, even the last books that are a bit darker. If you analyse other YA literature you will find plot holes too.

The series have so many plot holes because Rowling just made up the books without any grand plan for the plot. Ex: when she wrote the first 2 books she didn't know she would have the map on book 3.

Rowling basically played whac-a-mole trying to fix the plot.
The horrocrux were supposed to link all the books together, but it just added more plot holes. On book 2 when the diary was destroyed, Voldermort should have known since then that Dumbledore would try to figure out the magic behind the diary. When he recovered his powers on book 4 he would have only one objective; killing Slughorn. With Slughorn dead, his horrocruxes secret was safe. Even, if for some reason he couldn't find Slughorn he would at least try to hide better the horrocruxes.

>>13626600
>BU--BUT EGGS AND HAM CAN'T BE GREEN
They can if it's an established rule of the universe.

>>13627162
You don’t understand. I loved this movie first, and despite it being a comedy, its rather deep. Fuck your sour grapes. You probably own the Flintstones movie.

>>13627261
HAHAHAHA oh, well, I guess that fits somewhat. We had to keep it secret from her family and our coworkers. People are so delicate about sex. It’s still such a degenerate world.

>whatttttttttttt
How do you roll a “t”? Shouldn’t it be “Whaaaaaaaaaat”?

>>13628661
>How do you roll a "t"?
not him, but related anecdote, my teenage cousin trills the n in "no" when he's excited

>>13625053
>plot holes
you mean the reader being autistic and not using charity with the text

>>13629658
>being autistic
you mean having standards

>>13629658
There are fantasy writers who care a lot more about logical consistency, but Rowling obviously cared more about her themes, characters, the general world she was making, the sense of mystery and narrative, etc. I dont give a shit because it's fantasy and not real anyway.

>>13625053
You better explain yourself. Or else.

>>13625087
Indeed. The story is brainlet tier, but I rewatched the movies yesterday, and they are honestly very comfy. Easily defined evil, no complicated politics, no difficult ethics. Just plain evil vs good.

>>13625056
fpbp

>>13625138
>At what point does Lily think to herself "hmmm, this man who bullied my friend for existing for years seems pretty cute, I'm going to marry him"? I get that Snape fucked up, but that doesn't change the fact that James was an utter asshat.
you mean a woman chose a brash, boorish, popular kid instead of the softer, emo kid? sounds right on the money

>>13630837
reread his comment. he didn't say Snape was a better choice, only that James should not have been a choice at all

>>13630848
>implying women are loyal to their male friends who get bullied
I guess since it's a fantasy novel you can't be blamed for hoping to see this

I can, but it's my cousin's indie book series, and I really shouldn't throw her to the dogs... but suffice to say, it was bad. The main character was found with a dead body and nobody accused her of murder until the end of the book. Her fiancee knew, he just didn't care, which... wtf??? I would be out of there as soon as I could, protag was a bitch to begin with.

>>13630861
it's not about bad blood, it's about dating a bully. I highly doubt that Snape was the only one the Marauders tormented

>>13630875
do you know why people in general bully? to establish a pecking order and raise their relative status in the group. literally the chad James vs the virgin Snape

>>13630875
I wasnt ever a real bully but I was a dick in highschool and I changed completely around age 17, i regained my empathy for everyone that mysteriously disappeared when I was like 12. A lot of the really bad guys I knew also became way better as they became adults.

idk man i think it's just something that happens to some people and it's fucked up and not nice, and I still feel bad about it, but the idea I think was that James stopped being a bully and then lily fell for him. Irl obviously it's not usually like that because girls don't really care if their boyfriends are bullies when they're teenagers. But teenage years are just retarded in general.

>>13625626
Mistborn has pretty limited magic, yeah. The most common form of magic only has like eight spells and they tend to do stuff like reinforcement of the physical body or letting someone telekinetically control metal. Nothing approaches time travel until the very end.

But even with a prolific magic system like HP's, it's fairly easy to keep magic from creating plotholes - make it cost something. Magic in HP is essentially free, and even worldbreaking stuff is encapsulated in magic items that can be used an infinite number of times.

>>13627286
Wasn't it explained that Voldemort can't actually feel his horcruxes being destroyed? He's too far gone to actually be aware of that or something.

>>13625138
>woman being a whore is a plot hole
Anon...

>>13625427
>"Let's see what Ron's up to, Fred!"
>"... wow. I never thought... wow."
>"... Okay, we can't make fun of him about this."

>>13631193
>"Who is this Peter guy though? You know him?"
>"Never heard of him, Fred. He seems to hang out a lot around Harry and Hermione too, but I've never seen them having a fourth friend."
>"Hey, lets forget this! I'm getting sleepy..."

>>13625427
Pettigrew was one of the map's creators, I'm sure it can be hand waved. Maybe the map knew he didn't want to be found, maybe it was charmed as to never betray the location of it's creators to outsiders.
>allowing him to keep assuming that Crouch Sr. was meeting with "Moody".
Even if he wasn't meeting with Moody, Crouch Senior was one of the judges, and a ruthless judge out to hunt Death Eaters like Moody, so it would not be weird
>They never use the Time Turners
That's not a plot hole, the ministry owned them and regulated them. When Hermione dropped her classes, it got taken away from her. Questionable addition to the universe? Yes, but not a plot hole.
>Why did Dumbledore have the invisibility cloak?
>Why did he give it at all when we know that Dumbles has a fetish for the Hallows?
So, which one is the plot hole? Idiot. He took it away, studied it for a decade, then he knew Harry was implicated in a prophecy, so he would need it. And not like he cares if he broke school rules or not.
>For fuck's sake, put a part of your soul in a rock and throw it in the sea
It's Magic, not just some technological tool. You don't know how they need to be made, maybe they require an object with a personal connection. Also, just like in LOTR, the soul fragment has a will of it's own, and needs to be essentially trapped, or it will try to pursue it's own goals like the diary.

>There's probably more, but those are the big one's I can think of off the top of my head
None of them are plot holes. Congrats, you're even dumber than JKR.

>>13631249
>the map knew

>>13631278
>A magical object that insults anyone who tries to read it, betrays the location of it's creator to two strangers

ok

>>13631281
ye and it just knew that hairy potter's father was one of its creators, so it decided to give him full administrator rights

>>13631281
>four fourth years created an object of that complexity

>>13631288
Heredity is one of the most established concepts in magic.

>>13631299
FILTHY MUDBLOOD

>>13625862
The 3rd book is where the series peaked, honestly. The last book of light-hearted magical adventures with charming descriptions of wizard life. I found the rest to be too self-serious.

It's also the puberty book. After all, Hermione spends half the book pissed off for no apparent reason (to Harry and Ron's bewilderment), Lupin has a hairy transformation tied to the moon, and Harry shoots strange, silvery spurts out of his wand until he finally does it for real while (mistakenly) seeing himself as a man.

>>13631307
The third movie is also the Back to the Future of the movies and is by far the best one.

>>13631297
Now, that is a bit of a plot hole. Why didn't James Potter use his map making techniques, to plot the ministry? They could have used it against Voldemort.

But then again, if British ministry had that power, they would probably scale it up to a whole island, to spy on everybody.

Also, Voldemort was mostly just using mind control, and not disguises. The Goblins had a security system in their bank that I think lifted any mind control, but they of course, didn't share it.

>>13631324
Dude, it gets worse and my chick hates me ruining it. Petricicus totalus is taught to 11 year olds and 12 year olds know the memory charm. You're telling me they aren't going to rape each other?

>>13631345
12 year olds wouldn't remember the memory charm, at least if Lockhart's wand performed correctly
also, I'm pretty sure it's quite hard to not just wipe somebody's whole brain by accident

Pertificus totalus was in some book Hermione read, it's not actually taught.